Geno Smith (2014) Vs Ryan Fitzpatrick (2015)

[Lupz27]

I say it about once a week, but you guys have no idea how to use the term "franchise"

Winston, Carr, and Bridgewater?  I will admit that we don't know those guys won't be franchise QBs, but the idea that they are is beyond me.  They are a combined 17-23. 

Carr looks pretty damn good to me this year with Crabtree, and Cooper!

[BallinPB]

I guess the most important stat is one we can't compare fairly and that is wins and losses.  So far Fitz, with a much improved team is 2 -1.  Lets see if he can get us to 3-1. 

That is the breast stat to go by.  

[artemusclyde]

Well you said, that investing in a QB prevents a regime from finding a franchise QB.  Yet, the Raiders traded for Matt Schuab in the offseason they picked up Carr.  Seattle famously signed Matt Flynn the offseason they picked up Wilson.  Bucs signed Mcgown the offseason before they got Winston.  So three of the teams that you mentioned as examples invested money/trades in a QB either the same offseason or the prior offseason and yet still found their franchise QB.  So, if the franchise QB lottery is just luck, what difference would it make if the Jets invest in Geno or not?  Again, this is based on your theory that if Geno plays, he's going to play well enough for the front office to be blinded to give him another shot to begin with.  But your first theory about investing in Geno and preventing a franchise QB from being acquired contradicts your second theory that the franchise QB pot is just luck and good ones will fall.  And your examples show teams that invested money/picks in QBs that also picked franchise QBs.   

I agree with you on Goff (although I don't think he's going to fall, because from every report I've heard, he looked great at camps and his competition is laying a big egg in Jones/Hackenberg, and Cooks not lighting it up either) and him being the best QB prospect out there.  

Those are others teams, Jets had an opportunity to pick up Wilson, Carr, and Bridgewater but passed on all of them because of either Sanchez or Smith. Our gm, while also seems to be doing a good job, comes from a franchise with notable qb problems similar to the Jets, ie they held onto Schaub way to long and didn't bother looking for a replacement when it was obvious to everybody he was an awful qb. As for Goff, he's very comparable to Bridgewater, ie skinny and similar arm strength. Compare him to Hackenberg and Jones size, and I could see gms getting cold feet taking him top 5-10. I'll admit it is pretty wishful thinking, but if it could happen to Bridgewater, it could easily happen to Goff.

[FTL Jet Fan]

I can't wait until Geno starts so all this Geno talk will stop, does anybody actually think he has any respect in the locker room. I am not saying Fitz is any better than a backup. Fitz had a bad game missing Decker and Owusu. This week we will probably be the same and now no Cumberland. We would not be 2-1 with Geno, Firtz made some smart throws and stays calm and is able to read a defense half way descent. Geno Fumbles ,throws multiple picks, and backs up into the end zone for safeties. 

[Smashmouth]

QB Rating:

Geno:  77.5

Fitz:  78.4 

QBR:

Geno:  44.4

Fitz:  45

INT%:

Geno:  3.5%

Fitz:  4.3%

Yards Per Attempt: 

Geno:  6.9

Fitz:  6.1

TD %

Geno:  3.5

Fitz:  5.2

These are the stats from Geno Smith and Ryan Fitzpatrick.  They are all but identical (yet Geno Smith gets vilified for being a horrible QB last year) but Ryan Fitzpatrick is the way to go this year?  Fitzpatrick has a better system (easier reads) with better weapons as well (along with his vast knowledge and experience) yet he isn't doing a whole lot much to distinguish himself from Geno.  He has a higher TD%  but also a higher INT% as well.  

 

This stat line is ridiculous and it mentions nothing about Completion percentage which Fitz leads probably by a large Margin maybe 5 points or more. It also does not take into account Fitz played in a game that we were far behind in and had 60 Attempts which brings down numbers like Yards per attempt. It also mentions nothing about the difference between Geno's Ints and Fitz Int's .Geno's Ints were for the most part horrid passes that should have never been thrown while 3 of Fitz Int's were tipped balls. How many times Did Geno step up into the pocket with his eyes constantly downfield ? Hardly ever would be the correct answer the guy plays scared and most QB's who play scared are terrified to step up into the pocket its one of Geno's biggest flaws. Geno has one and only one advantage over Fitz and that's the fact he has a stronger arm. Everything else in his game STINKS .

Fitz is better at reading defenses.

Fitz is better at stepping up in the pocket and keeping his eyes down field.

Fitz is better at protecting the ball in the pocket. less Fumbles.

Fitz is a more accurate passer .

Fitz is better at disguising the Screen pass. Something Geno and Sanchez both were horrible at.

Fitz goes through his progressions and reads much quicker and at a much better quantity that Geno

Fitz has a much quicker release . Geno's slow winding release is also one of his flaws.

Fitz is light years better in the redzone

Geno has a batter arm

Geno can run fast

Go ahead and prove me wrong on any one of these points

[win4ever]

Those are others teams, Jets had an opportunity to pick up Wilson, Carr, and Bridgewater but passed on all of them because of either Sanchez or Smith. Our gm, while also seems to be doing a good job, comes from a franchise with notable qb problems similar to the Jets, ie they held onto Schaub way to long and didn't bother looking for a replacement when it was obvious to everybody he was an awful qb. As for Goff, he's very comparable to Bridgewater, ie skinny and similar arm strength. Compare him to Hackenberg and Jones size, and I could see gms getting cold feet taking him top 5-10. I'll admit it is pretty wishful thinking, but if it could happen to Bridgewater, it could easily happen to Goff.

But that's just the draw of the luck, right?  The Jets had Sanchez, and still invested in Smith, but we didn't luck out, by your theory of investing in QBs.  Vikings/Raiders both got their QBs within what a 10 pick range from where Geno was picked?  I'm just saying, the Jets lack of ability to pick QBs and the assertion that picking QBs is just a lottery goes against your point that the Jets would reinvest in Geno, and trust him enough to ignore the draft again, when the examples you showed seem to indicate that other teams weren't prevented by this issue.  However, if you feel the Jets organization as whole is just inept at picking QBs, then we don't stand a shot either way.  

I think Jones is going to drop badly, he has amazing talent around him and he's been mediocre so far this year.  Hackenberg needed this year to rebound after a horrible year last year, but I don't see how he comes back into a first round discussion when he routinely looks overmatched.  They both have very good arms, but do did Bryce Petty.  I think at this point and time, it's Goff/Cook for the top two QB positions.  Now admittedly, I haven't watched tapes on them so my opinion is just based on the limited exposure I have to them from random viewings, highlights, and stats.  

[BRONX DUDE]

Our defense kept us in games at times last year. Then Geno lost them. It makes sense to me.

Is this what being a Jet fan has come to?  Comparing 2 of the bottom rung QB's in the NFL.

Lets go for the #1 pick and go 2-14.

[RutgersJetFan]

That is the breast stat to go by.  

When you go tit for tat, it sure does seem like the best stat to rack up.

[win4ever]

This stat line is ridiculous and it mentions nothing about Completion percentage which Fitz leads probably by a large Margin maybe 5 points or more. It also does not take into account Fitz played in a game that we were far behind in and had 60 Attempts which brings down numbers like Yards per attempt. It also mentions nothing about the difference between Geno's Ints and Fitz Int's .Geno's Ints were for the most part horrid passes that should have never been thrown while 3 of Fitz Int's were tipped balls. How many times Did Geno step up into the pocket with his eyes constantly downfield ? Hardly ever would be the correct answer the guy plays scared and most QB's who play scared are terrified to step up into the pocket its one of Geno's biggest flaws. Geno has one and only one advantage over Fitz and that's the fact he has a stronger arm. Everything else in his game STINKS .

Fitz is better at reading defenses.

Fitz is better at stepping up in the pocket and keeping his eyes down field.

Fitz is better at protecting the ball in the pocket. less Fumbles.

Fitz is a more accurate passer .

Fitz is better at disguising the Screen pass. Something Geno and Sanchez both were horrible at.

Fitz goes through his progressions and reads much quicker and at a much better quantity that Geno

Fitz has a much quicker release . Geno's slow winding release is also one of his flaws.

Fitz is light years better in the redzone

Geno has a batter arm

Geno can run fast

Go ahead and prove me wrong on any one of these points

Ok, lets dissect this:

Fitzpatrick leads by 2%, which in his sample size is about 2 passes in completion percentage.  Sorry for omitting it, figured both QBR and QB Ratings factored it in.  

 "It also does not take into account Fitz played in a game that we were far behind in and had 60 Attempts which brings down numbers like Yards per attempt":

This argument intrigues me.  So you are saying stats accumulated when you are behind is more hard earned than stats accumulated when you are ahead.  However, Fitzpatrick had a lead (thanks to the defense) in two of his three games this year.  Are't you just helping Geno's argument there, because he didn't have a lead and his stats were accumulated when he was behind as well?  Geno threw 43 passes while behind in games twice last year, and we all know the Jets were behind in a few games last year.  So by your argument, Geno's stats would've been actually much better had he not been behind and the difference in Y/A would've been greater.  

The rest of those questions are subjective to me, I can't sit here and count arbitrarily how many times he stepped up in the pocket, but I can tell you he rushed for more yards than Fitzpatrick on average.  

1) Fitz better at reading defenses:  Now how is this proven?  Both their early career year stats and the stats you quoted show them to be near equal.  So where is the better at reading part coming from?  

2) Fitz is better at stepping up in the pocket and keeping his eyes down the field:  Actually, he's not that great at it.  Infact, if you look at the other thread with the game film from the Eagles game, not stepping up in the pocket was a big negative for Fitzpatrick.  And he showed to lock into his receivers many times without making other reads.  

3) Fitz is better at protecting the balls, less fumbles.  I already showed the fumbles to start their career earlier.  On a career average basis, Geno has a fumble every 1.8 games started.  Fitzpatrick has a fumble every 1.67 games started.  So, no.  

4) Fitz is a more accurate passer:  Both the stats that I showed earlier in their careers, and the stats for this season paint them very close in terms of accuracy.  

5) Fitz is better at designing screen passes, something Smith struggled with.  If you go to Football Outsiders, and the RB stats, these are the ratings for RBs catching the pass.  

2014:  Chris Ivory has a -15.4% DVOA on catches, Bilal Powell has 2.2% DVOA.

2015:  Chris Ivory isn't ranked, because he doesn't meet their minimum of 4 catches.  Bilal Powell has a -20.5% DVOA on catches.  

So, for all the disguising with Fitzpatrick, these stats seem to indicate a downturn in ability for these guys.  

6)  Fitz goes through his reads quicker and a better quality than Geno:  This is subjective, I don't know any website that quantifies this.  I'll take your word for it.  Just that, it doesn't seem to help Fitzpatrick one bit here because those stats I mention are still very similar.  So for all the quick browsing, comprehension still seems to be an issue.  

7)  Fitz has a faster release:  Another one, I can't quantify because there is no real stats on it that actually measure every QB.  I'll take your word on this one.  

8)  Fitz is better in the red zone:  Yes, he has been.  However, how much of this success do you attribute to Brandon Marshall?  Has 50% of the TDs Fitz has thrown this year.  So I went back, and looked at the stats from 2008 (27th in Cincy) and 2009 (32nd in Buffalo).  Then Chan Gailey got hired, and where did Fitzpatrick end up?  20th.  11th the next year.  So he went from being below average to average to above average with Gailey.  Maybe the system has something to do with it, as well as the players?  

9)  Geno has a better arm:  I agree

10)  Geno can run fast:  I agree.  

 

[win4ever]

Great post.  I tried to do something similar in the offseason but this breaks it down much more thoroughly.  It amazes me how little people can put things into perspective. 

Thanks.  Neither are great, but I don't get why the younger guy with more upside is shunned for the career journeyman.  I would even understand if people were torn between them, a defense of better fit for the system or something, but that's not even the case.  

[Smashmouth]

Ok, lets dissect this:

Fitzpatrick leads by 2%, which in his sample size is about 2 passes in completion percentage.  Sorry for omitting it, figured both QBR and QB Ratings factored it in.  

 "It also does not take into account Fitz played in a game that we were far behind in and had 60 Attempts which brings down numbers like Yards per attempt":

This argument intrigues me.  So you are saying stats accumulated when you are behind is more hard earned than stats accumulated when you are ahead.  However, Fitzpatrick had a lead (thanks to the defense) in two of his three games this year.  Are't you just helping Geno's argument there, because he didn't have a lead and his stats were accumulated when he was behind as well?  Geno threw 43 passes while behind in games twice last year, and we all know the Jets were behind in a few games last year.  So by your argument, Geno's stats would've been actually much better had he not been behind and the difference in Y/A would've been greater.  

The rest of those questions are subjective to me, I can't sit here and count arbitrarily how many times he stepped up in the pocket, but I can tell you he rushed for more yards than Fitzpatrick on average.  

1) Fitz better at reading defenses:  Now how is this proven?  Both their early career year stats and the stats you quoted show them to be near equal.  So where is the better at reading part coming from?  

2) Fitz is better at stepping up in the pocket and keeping his eyes down the field:  Actually, he's not that great at it.  Infact, if you look at the other thread with the game film from the Eagles game, not stepping up in the pocket was a big negative for Fitzpatrick.  And he showed to lock into his receivers many times without making other reads.  

3) Fitz is better at protecting the balls, less fumbles.  I already showed the fumbles to start their career earlier.  On a career average basis, Geno has a fumble every 1.8 games started.  Fitzpatrick has a fumble every 1.67 games started.  So, no.  

4) Fitz is a more accurate passer:  Both the stats that I showed earlier in their careers, and the stats for this season paint them very close in terms of accuracy.  

5) Fitz is better at designing screen passes, something Smith struggled with.  If you go to Football Outsiders, and the RB stats, these are the ratings for RBs catching the pass.  

2014:  Chris Ivory has a -15.4% DVOA on catches, Bilal Powell has 2.2% DVOA.

2015:  Chris Ivory isn't ranked, because he doesn't meet their minimum of 4 catches.  Bilal Powell has a -20.5% DVOA on catches.  

So, for all the disguising with Fitzpatrick, these stats seem to indicate a downturn in ability for these guys.  

6)  Fitz goes through his reads quicker and a better quality than Geno:  This is subjective, I don't know any website that quantifies this.  I'll take your word for it.  Just that, it doesn't seem to help Fitzpatrick one bit here because those stats I mention are still very similar.  So for all the quick browsing, comprehension still seems to be an issue.  

7)  Fitz has a faster release:  Another one, I can't quantify because there is no real stats on it that actually measure every QB.  I'll take your word on this one.  

8)  Fitz is better in the red zone:  Yes, he has been.  However, how much of this success do you attribute to Brandon Marshall?  Has 50% of the TDs Fitz has thrown this year.  So I went back, and looked at the stats from 2008 (27th in Cincy) and 2009 (32nd in Buffalo).  Then Chan Gailey got hired, and where did Fitzpatrick end up?  20th.  11th the next year.  So he went from being below average to average to above average with Gailey.  Maybe the system has something to do with it, as well as the players?  

9)  Geno has a better arm:  I agree

10)  Geno can run fast:  I agree.  

 

Ok now that you took the time to "Dissect" this

Here is the title to you're thread "Geno Smith (2014) Vs Ryan Fitzpatrick (2015) "

First it was about 3 games then it started to be about more than that ...now it seems to be about what Fitz did as a rookie in some cases. You have, in you're Dissection proven nothing contrary to what I said in my post . Geno Smith is a Terrible QB so if you want to take this further than just the 3 games you originally discussed but conveiniently left out some stats I'm all for that because it will further make my point.

Also Geno Smith has a comp percentage of 57 over his career not 60 so you're two point theory is wrong as well since we are using the bigger sample size.   

Also I didn't say Designing screen passes I said Disguising screen passes 2 very different things.

When it comes to yards per attempt yes when you have 60 in one game over a 3 game span it takes a big toll especially when you're team drops a large amount of passes in said game the could have had a big impact.

Fitz has played 2 good games and one suspect game I have not seen him play downright bad yet but I have seen Geno play horrid remember the game last year that got him Yanked ? 3 Ints on his first 3 passes directly in the hands of the opposition ? all 3 leading to scores and a huge blow out. Do you think you will ever see something like that from Fitz ? How many games so far have been solely on Fitz shoulders as the main reason we lost ? the answer is zero. I will also venture to say if Geno started the first three games of this season we would probably be 1-2   

Take out 2 tipped INt's in the below stats and Fitz rating in game 2 looks much different

   

SPLITS CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG LNG TD INT RAT In Wins 37 58 423 63.8 7.29 43 4 2 94.3 In Losses 35 58 283 60.3 4.88 26 2 3 62.6 Complete Splits »

    

[maury77]

This stat line is ridiculous and it mentions nothing about Completion percentage which Fitz leads probably by a large Margin maybe 5 points or more. It also does not take into account Fitz played in a game that we were far behind in and had 60 Attempts which brings down numbers like Yards per attempt. It also mentions nothing about the difference between Geno's Ints and Fitz Int's .Geno's Ints were for the most part horrid passes that should have never been thrown while 3 of Fitz Int's were tipped balls. How many times Did Geno step up into the pocket with his eyes constantly downfield ? Hardly ever would be the correct answer the guy plays scared and most QB's who play scared are terrified to step up into the pocket its one of Geno's biggest flaws. Geno has one and only one advantage over Fitz and that's the fact he has a stronger arm. Everything else in his game STINKS .

Fitz is better at reading defenses.

Fitz is better at stepping up in the pocket and keeping his eyes down field.

Fitz is better at protecting the ball in the pocket. less Fumbles.

Fitz is a more accurate passer .

Fitz is better at disguising the Screen pass. Something Geno and Sanchez both were horrible at.

Fitz goes through his progressions and reads much quicker and at a much better quantity that Geno

Fitz has a much quicker release . Geno's slow winding release is also one of his flaws.

Fitz is light years better in the redzone

Geno has a batter arm

Geno can run fast

Go ahead and prove me wrong on any one of these points

It's hard to prove you wrong when most of what you state is completely subjective. 

 

 

]

[maury77]

Ok now that you took the time to "Dissect" this

Here is the title to you're thread "Geno Smith (2014) Vs Ryan Fitzpatrick (2015) "

First it was about 3 games then it started to be about more than that ...now it seems to be about what Fitz did as a rookie in some cases. You have, in you're Dissection proven nothing contrary to what I said in my post . Geno Smith is a Terrible QB so if you want to take this further than just the 3 games you originally discussed but conveiniently left out some stats I'm all for that because it will further make my point.

Also Geno Smith has a comp percentage of 57 over his career not 60 so you're two point theory is wrong as well since we are using the bigger sample size.   

Also I didn't say Designing screen passes I said Disguising screen passes 2 very different things.

When it comes to yards per attempt yes when you have 60 in one game over a 3 game span it takes a big toll especially when you're team drops a large amount of passes in said game the could have had a big impact.

Fitz has played 2 good games and one suspect game I have not seen him play downright bad yet but I have seen Geno play horrid remember the game last year that got him Yanked ? 3 Ints on his first 3 passes directly in the hands of the opposition ? all 3 leading to scores and a huge blow out. Do you think you will ever see something like that from Fitz ? How many games so far have been solely on Fitz shoulders as the main reason we lost ? the answer is zero. I will also venture to say if Geno started the first three games of this season we would probably be 1-2   

Take out 2 tipped INt's in the below stats and Fitz rating in game 2 looks much different

   

SPLITS CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG LNG TD INT RAT In Wins 37 58 423 63.8 7.29 43 4 2 94.3 In Losses 35 58 283 60.3 4.88 26 2 3 62.6 Complete Splits »

    

Saying Fitzpatrick played 2 good games so far this year is a stretch. The Colts game was pretty mediocre. Fitzpatrick is never going to get better than the mediocre play you are currently witnessing. While Geno is in his 3rd year, he is less than a year older than Petty, who everybody seems perfectly fine with giving a season or 2 on the bench to develop. Geno also played in a spread like Petty did. After 2 years to develop (along with a superior supporting cast), we need to see what we have in Geno. As much as you despise the kid, he was a talented prospect coming out of college. 

[Jet Nut]

This stat line is ridiculous and it mentions nothing about Completion percentage which Fitz leads probably by a large Margin maybe 5 points or more. It also does not take into account Fitz played in a game that we were far behind in and had 60 Attempts which brings down numbers like Yards per attempt. It also mentions nothing about the difference between Geno's Ints and Fitz Int's .Geno's Ints were for the most part horrid passes that should have never been thrown while 3 of Fitz Int's were tipped balls. How many times Did Geno step up into the pocket with his eyes constantly downfield ? Hardly ever would be the correct answer the guy plays scared and most QB's who play scared are terrified to step up into the pocket its one of Geno's biggest flaws. Geno has one and only one advantage over Fitz and that's the fact he has a stronger arm. Everything else in his game STINKS .

Fitz is better at reading defenses.

Fitz is better at stepping up in the pocket and keeping his eyes down field.

Fitz is better at protecting the ball in the pocket. less Fumbles.

Fitz is a more accurate passer .

Fitz is better at disguising the Screen pass. Something Geno and Sanchez both were horrible at.

Fitz goes through his progressions and reads much quicker and at a much better quantity that Geno

Fitz has a much quicker release . Geno's slow winding release is also one of his flaws.

Fitz is light years better in the redzone

Geno has a batter arm

Geno can run fast

Go ahead and prove me wrong on any one of these points

This is like you found a list of QB attributes and you blindly gave most to Fitz.  What a waste of time this is.

Never mind youre comparing a weak 14 offensive unit to a much stronger unit of 15 and a 11 vet to a 2nd year player.  

[win4ever]

Ok now that you took the time to "Dissect" this

Here is the title to you're thread "Geno Smith (2014) Vs Ryan Fitzpatrick (2015) "

First it was about 3 games then it started to be about more than that ...now it seems to be about what Fitz did as a rookie in some cases. You have, in you're Dissection proven nothing contrary to what I said in my post . Geno Smith is a Terrible QB so if you want to take this further than just the 3 games you originally discussed but conveiniently left out some stats I'm all for that because it will further make my point.

Also Geno Smith has a comp percentage of 57 over his career not 60 so you're two point theory is wrong as well since we are using the bigger sample size.   

Also I didn't say Designing screen passes I said Disguising screen passes 2 very different things.

When it comes to yards per attempt yes when you have 60 in one game over a 3 game span it takes a big toll especially when you're team drops a large amount of passes in said game the could have had a big impact.

Fitz has played 2 good games and one suspect game I have not seen him play downright bad yet but I have seen Geno play horrid remember the game last year that got him Yanked ? 3 Ints on his first 3 passes directly in the hands of the opposition ? all 3 leading to scores and a huge blow out. Do you think you will ever see something like that from Fitz ? How many games so far have been solely on Fitz shoulders as the main reason we lost ? the answer is zero. I will also venture to say if Geno started the first three games of this season we would probably be 1-2   

Take out 2 tipped INt's in the below stats and Fitz rating in game 2 looks much different

   

SPLITS CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG LNG TD INT RAT In Wins 37 58 423 63.8 7.29 43 4 2 94.3 In Losses 35 58 283 60.3 4.88 26 2 3 62.6 Complete Splits »

    

Ok, lets do this again:

Yes, the initial title says what you said.  However, as someone else pointed out as a negative, said the sample size was short with Fitzpatrick.  So I adjusted the stats to show their numbers equaled to a similar amount of passes.   And since they weren't identical, I showed stats that were per attempt.  I don't see how I changed the argument.  You can argue with either set of stats, I'm not excluding one or the other.  

How are you taking it further with Geno?  When I provided the 800 pass mark, that included his entire career.  Where are you taking this further?  

Wait, are you comparing Geno's career stats to Fitzpatrick's stats this year?  Geno Smith completed 59.7% of passes last year, and Fitzpatrick is at 62.1% this year, what part of this is not 2%?  

Or are you asking for a large sample size from Geno Smith, but still using the short sample size from Fitzpatrick?  

Even if you look at both of their careers, it's 2.8% difference.  Where is this much larger than 2% you speak of?  

Ok, I rescind my assertion that the Fitzpatrick designing plays hasn't been useful, and retort with Fitzpatrick disguising screen plays hasn't proved useful.  

So now, it takes a toll to throw 60 passes trying to come from behind, but all the times that Geno Smith was trying to come behind last year doesn't take a toll?  

And you're taking tipped passes out of the way now?  Are you going to add the dropped INT from the Eagles game to Smith?  

Most of what you are saying is just subjective stuff that can go in circles.  

The stats show factually, that they are very similar in two fashion:

The 2014 Geno vs 2015 Fitz stats: show that for all the vilification Geno Smith got last year, Fitzpatrick isn't having a better year.  The only difference is the defense is now top notch and getting turnovers, causing the team to win.  Ryan Fitzpatrick isn't 2-1, the Jets are 2-1, and the most valuable component of the team has been the defense.  

The First 734 passes of Fitz vs first 808 passes of Geno:  shows their stats at similar points in their career (and before Chan Gailey came along), and those stats are extremely similar as well.  The number of passes were picked to equalize the sample size.  

Now you can argue Fitzpatrick improved under Chan Gailey, there is no argument about that, but then you can't argue with subjective hatred that the chances of Geno Smith improving under Chan Gailey isn't the same.  This is ofcourse before we even factor in weapons upgrades.  And now an older Fitzpatrick isn't really setting himself apart under Chan Gailey, so the Jets are better served to see what they have under Geno Smith.  

 

 

[JohnnyLV]

This stat line is ridiculous and it mentions nothing about Completion percentage which Fitz leads probably by a large Margin maybe 5 points or more. It also does not take into account Fitz played in a game that we were far behind in and had 60 Attempts which brings down numbers like Yards per attempt. It also mentions nothing about the difference between Geno's Ints and Fitz Int's .Geno's Ints were for the most part horrid passes that should have never been thrown while 3 of Fitz Int's were tipped balls. How many times Did Geno step up into the pocket with his eyes constantly downfield ? Hardly ever would be the correct answer the guy plays scared and most QB's who play scared are terrified to step up into the pocket its one of Geno's biggest flaws. Geno has one and only one advantage over Fitz and that's the fact he has a stronger arm. Everything else in his game STINKS .

Fitz is better at reading defenses.

Fitz is better at stepping up in the pocket and keeping his eyes down field.

Fitz is better at protecting the ball in the pocket. less Fumbles.

Fitz is a more accurate passer .

Fitz is better at disguising the Screen pass. Something Geno and Sanchez both were horrible at.

Fitz goes through his progressions and reads much quicker and at a much better quantity that Geno

Fitz has a much quicker release . Geno's slow winding release is also one of his flaws.

Fitz is light years better in the redzone

Geno has a batter arm

Geno can run fast

Go ahead and prove me wrong on any one of these points

Not a single fact in this entire list other than the last two about Geno, and no only is it wild opinion, it is also completely delusional and ludicrous and almost completely wrong.

[Smashmouth]

 

Not a single fact in this entire list other than the last two about Geno, and no only is it wild opinion, it is also completely delusional and ludicrous and almost completely wrong.

not a single fact other than the 2 about Geno?

Not sure why I bothered. Should have expected this nonsense. Won't waste my time any longer . 

How anyone could claim Geno Smith is a better QB than Fitzpatrick OR should be playing over Fitzpatrick is ludicrous

[#27TheDominator]

Those are others teams, Jets had an opportunity to pick up Wilson, Carr, and Bridgewater but passed on all of them because of either Sanchez or Smith. Our gm, while also seems to be doing a good job, comes from a franchise with notable qb problems similar to the Jets, ie they held onto Schaub way to long and didn't bother looking for a replacement when it was obvious to everybody he was an awful qb. As for Goff, he's very comparable to Bridgewater, ie skinny and similar arm strength. Compare him to Hackenberg and Jones size, and I could see gms getting cold feet taking him top 5-10. I'll admit it is pretty wishful thinking, but if it could happen to Bridgewater, it could easily happen to Goff.

I don't think the Jets passed on those guys because of Sanchez or Smith.  They passed on them because they were looking for value.  When you are dealing with guys out of the top of the draft it is a crap shoot as to where they will go.  I know some of you guys want to draft a QB every year, but then how do you develop them?  The Jets may well have wanted Wilson (banging the table!) but the Seahawks picked him two slots before they got Demario Davis.  You can say they could have taken him with their second, but even the Seahawks gladly passed on him with their later 2nd for Bobby Wagner.  It's nice to criticize the Pryor pick, but Manziel was the next QB taken and Bridgewater and Carr went right between the Jets 1st and 2nd.  I guess they could have gotten Garroppolo with their 2nd, but then they would have given up 13% of their receiving production and the only rookie to catch a pass.   Think of how much it hurts your talent level to burn high picks on QBs constantly and the fact that rather than developing them you just have a never ending QB competition with blind leading the blind trying to adapt to the NFL and learn the offense.

[Integrity28]

Is this what being a Jet fan has come to?  Comparing 2 of the bottom rung QB's in the NFL.

Lets go for the #1 pick and go 2-14.

Come to?

its been reality for6 years of Sanchez and Geno.

[Jet_Engine1]

Geno Smith, bringing new and interesting embarrassment to the New York Jets since 2013!!!

 

Come for the ridiculousness, stay for the Interceptions!!

[JohnnyLV]

not a single fact other than the 2 about Geno?

Not sure why I bothered. Should have expected this nonsense. Won't waste my time any longer . 

How anyone could claim Geno Smith is a better QB than Fitzpatrick OR should be playing over Fitzpatrick is ludicrous

Except of the course that our OC and coach thought he was a better QB than Fitz and named him the day 1 starter going in to camp and gave him all the reps, and was completely outplaying Fitz in camp. So "anyone" would actually be the coaching staff of the Jets who think Geno is better than Fitz. Which he is. Both are not good QBs, but at least Geno is young and has potential upside while Fitz is just nothing. There is a reason he has only ever won 6 games in any season, despite starting 2-0 three times. Because he is limited and does not protect the ball. Fitz sucks. Only thing he has going for him is his IQ

[sackdance]

Except of the course that our OC and coach thought he was a better QB than Fitz and named him the day 1 starter going in to camp and gave him all the reps, and was completely outplaying Fitz in camp. 

Maybe JetNation can chisel this into the header so you don't have to type it eight times a day. 

[#27TheDominator]

Maybe JetNation can chisel this into the header so you don't have to type it eight times a day. 

That makes it true!

[cant wait]

Maybe JetNation can chisel this into the header so you don't have to type it eight times a day. 

lol the truth hurts doesn't it?

[Doggin94it]

QB Rating:

Geno:  77.5

Fitz:  78.4 

QBR:

Geno:  44.4

Fitz:  45

INT%:

Geno:  3.5%

Fitz:  4.3%

Yards Per Attempt: 

Geno:  6.9

Fitz:  6.1

TD %

Geno:  3.5

Fitz:  5.2

These are the stats from Geno Smith and Ryan Fitzpatrick.  They are all but identical (yet Geno Smith gets vilified for being a horrible QB last year) but Ryan Fitzpatrick is the way to go this year?  Fitzpatrick has a better system (easier reads) with better weapons as well (along with his vast knowledge and experience) yet he isn't doing a whole lot much to distinguish himself from Geno.  He has a higher TD%  but also a higher INT% as well.  

 

And with comparable sample sizes, the fitzmagic battalion can't argue your comparison is skewed by one bad game. Good work!

[detectivekimble]

This stat line is ridiculous and it mentions nothing about Completion percentage which Fitz leads probably by a large Margin maybe 5 points or more. It also does not take into account Fitz played in a game that we were far behind in and had 60 Attempts which brings down numbers like Yards per attempt. It also mentions nothing about the difference between Geno's Ints and Fitz Int's .Geno's Ints were for the most part horrid passes that should have never been thrown while 3 of Fitz Int's were tipped balls. How many times Did Geno step up into the pocket with his eyes constantly downfield ? Hardly ever would be the correct answer the guy plays scared and most QB's who play scared are terrified to step up into the pocket its one of Geno's biggest flaws. Geno has one and only one advantage over Fitz and that's the fact he has a stronger arm. Everything else in his game STINKS .

Fitz is better at reading defenses.

Fitz is better at stepping up in the pocket and keeping his eyes down field.

Fitz is better at protecting the ball in the pocket. less Fumbles.

Fitz is a more accurate passer .

Fitz is better at disguising the Screen pass. Something Geno and Sanchez both were horrible at.

Fitz goes through his progressions and reads much quicker and at a much better quantity that Geno

Fitz has a much quicker release . Geno's slow winding release is also one of his flaws.

Fitz is light years better in the redzone

Geno has a batter arm

Geno can run fast

Go ahead and prove me wrong on any one of these points

 

Fitzpatrick does not have a quicker release than Geno.  Geno has a pretty quick release.

[JetBlue]

That is the breast stat to go by.  

Freudian slip, or no?

[Jet Nut]

Maybe JetNation can chisel this into the header so you don't have to type it eight times a day. 

Yeah, theres a twist.  The Geno sucks contingent hasn't said that over and over and over again nearly as many times.  8 times a day would be a huge comedown from the tried and true, simplistic he sucks.

[sackdance]

Yeah, theres a twist.  The Geno sucks contingent hasn't said that over and over and over again nearly as many times.  8 times a day would be a huge comedown from the tried and true, simplistic he sucks.

Hey, unless I'm missing something no one is starting Geno sucks threads just to say that Geno sucks. 

What I think is going to happen in London is that the Jets will win and Fitz will play somewhere between the levels of Joe Montana and Geno Smith Mark Sanchez. Some of us will be more interested in making noise about unleashing QB potential (but this time with weapons!) than in assessing a 3-1 team.  

 

[flgreen]

Maybe we can trade next year's first for Mike Vick.  He had a 95.7 RTG last night

[jetsfan_toronto_canada]

Geno by far has more upside.  But the reason Fitz is the starter is that Geno also has by far more downside.

With Fitz you know what you're getting, with Geno you don't... could be great could be terrible, could be a bit of both - Thats why I agree with keeping fitz in there. IMO The defence is good enough to keep them in games, so consistency at QB is better than inconsistent with higher upside. 

 

[Bruce Harper]

QB Rating:

Geno:  77.5

Fitz:  78.4 

QBR:

Geno:  44.4

Fitz:  45

INT%:

Geno:  3.5%

Fitz:  4.3%

Yards Per Attempt: 

Geno:  6.9

Fitz:  6.1

TD %

Geno:  3.5

Fitz:  5.2

These are the stats from Geno Smith and Ryan Fitzpatrick.  They are all but identical (yet Geno Smith gets vilified for being a horrible QB last year) but Ryan Fitzpatrick is the way to go this year?  Fitzpatrick has a better system (easier reads) with better weapons as well (along with his vast knowledge and experience) yet he isn't doing a whole lot much to distinguish himself from Geno.  He has a higher TD%  but also a higher INT% as well.  

 

Not a very big statistical sample but I get what you're saying.

[JohnnyLV]

Geno by far has more upside.  But the reason Fitz is the starter is that Geno also has by far more downside.

With Fitz you know what you're getting, with Geno you don't... could be great could be terrible, could be a bit of both - Thats why I agree with keeping fitz in there. IMO The defence is good enough to keep them in games, so consistency at QB is better than inconsistent with higher upside. 

 

Geno is not starting for one reason and one reason only:

He had his jaw broken and the coaching staff does not think he is completely back up to speed.

On no level does it have anything to do with Fitz. Had Geno not had his jaw broken he would have likely started the season, and it seems very very likely he returns at some point this side. 

Also: NOTHING the coaching staff has done suggest at all that they feel Geno has more downside. Quite the opposite actually.

 

 

 

[jetsfan_toronto_canada]

Geno is not starting for one reason and one reason only:

He had his jaw broken and the coaching staff does not think he is completely back up to speed.

On no level does it have anything to do with Fitz. Had Geno not had his jaw broken he would have likely started the season, and it seems very very likely he returns at some point this side. 

Also: NOTHING the coaching staff has done suggest at all that they feel Geno has more downside. Quite the opposite actually.

 

 

 

my bad - this is my opinion not nessecary what I think the coaches think.  But we shall see if the offense continues to struggle once geno is healthy enough to play.

but geno DOES have more downside.

[JohnnyLV]

my bad - this is my opinion not nessecary what I think the coaches think.  But we shall see if the offense continues to struggle once geno is healthy enough to play.

but geno DOES have more downside.

maybe but it is pretty negligible based on his career play