Sperm Edwards Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 It occurred to me when I was making this post in the Olivier Vernon thread. The Jets were in the running (top 3) for Vernon. They (allegedly) only got out when the bidding hit $15M/year, which suggests they were still in it when the bidding was north of $10M, and probably when it was north of $12M, when we only have some $6M or so in available cap room at the moment. If they didn't have a trade partner already lined up for Mo, they run the risk of keeping the newly-signed Vernon on at least a $12M/year deal plus Mo at $15M, plus Williams plus Sheldon. Unless Maccagnan is someone who walks into traffic and then looks to see if any cars are coming after, making any offer suggests they could very well have a deal lined up. Frankly it should mean that or what the hell is he doing lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowlesMovement Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said: It occurred to me when I was making this post in the Olivier Vernon thread. The Jets were in the running (top 3) for Vernon. They (allegedly) only got out when the bidding hit $15M/year, which suggests they were still in it when the bidding was north of $10M, and probably when it was north of $12M, when we only have some $6M or so in available cap room at the moment. If they didn't have a trade partner already lined up for Mo, they run the risk of keeping the newly-signed Vernon on at least a $12M/year deal plus Mo at $15M, plus Williams plus Sheldon. Unless Maccagnan is someone who walks into traffic and then looks to see if any cars are coming after, making any offer suggests they could very well have a deal lined up. Frankly it should mean that or what the hell is he doing lol. Agree completely, which would be awesome if they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRL Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 You're spot on. There's no way Maccagnan talks to Vernon up to 15 million if he doesn't have the ability to clear Wilkerson's money off the cap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Or its a b.s. rumor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prime21 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 How were we going to pay Vernon 15 mil and still retain Richardson next year? Or will he be gone too? Mo must want crazy money and he he should based on where he ranks among ends and what others are getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 couldn't they just have untagged mo and then he'd sign elsewhere in FA and that would be that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 25 minutes ago, Larz said: Or its a b.s. rumor This is also a distinct possibility, but of all teams how would the Jets' name get in there? We already have a better Vernon we know, tagged for the 2016 season. So I think there's a good chance Mac at least picked up a phone. Now he may have been only 1 of 3 teams to even pick up a phone and get as far as, "How much? $15M??? Bah! [*click*]." lol There are other possibilities. One is they were showing interest in Vernon without any real bidding, and get this leaked in an attempt to put pressure on Mo to sign a deal the Jets want; to show they'll pay but they'll only pay so much on a longer deal, and no one's offering up a pick for him so he might as well take the Jets' offer. Otherwise play under the tag and risk serious injury without one yet again. That idea seems thin in comparison. Plus that could backfire and Mo's (his agent's) stance then turns into "Ah, so you admit without me you're in need of an expensive veteran to get to the passer. Cha-ching!"). I'm sticking with we already had a trade partner lined up from before we tagged him, and that's why we tagged him. Oakland was rumored to be the top party interested in Mo and I don't think they've signed a Mo-comparable player yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 I really don't think they have one yet. Teams are unpredictable but who would make that trade now before the draft? It could save a team $17 per to draft a DE with the 2nd rounder they'd trade to us. I think in the 2nd round there may be a team that's upset they missed out on their guy and make the trade, but I really don't see it happening around this time. And I could definitely see it not happening at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prime21 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Imagine all the the "WTF??" faces here at JetNation after learning we signed Vernon to a 15 mil contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 18 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: This is also a distinct possibility, but of all teams how would the Jets' name get in there? We already have a better Vernon we know, tagged for the 2016 season. So I think there's a good chance Mac at least picked up a phone. Now he may have been only 1 of 3 teams to even pick up a phone and get as far as, "How much? $15M??? Bah! [*click*]." lol There are other possibilities. One is they were showing interest in Vernon without any real bidding, and get this leaked in an attempt to put pressure on Mo to sign a deal the Jets want; to show they'll pay but they'll only pay so much on a longer deal, and no one's offering up a pick for him so he might as well take the Jets' offer. Otherwise play under the tag and risk serious injury without one yet again. That idea seems thin in comparison. Plus that could backfire and Mo's (his agent's) stance then turns into "Ah, so you admit without me you're in need of an expensive veteran to get to the passer. Cha-ching!"). I'm sticking with we already had a trade partner lined up from before we tagged him, and that's why we tagged him. Oakland was rumored to be the top party interested in Mo and I don't think they've signed a Mo-comparable player yet. even if you're right, would the jets still deal mo now, with harrison gone? how much would they allow the d-line to be depleted, even if, say, they got the 14th pick in the draft which seems unlikely. at this point my money is on the jets waiting it out and getting a long term deal done with him. they will probably add another olb in the draft and the defense will be in pretty good shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said: couldn't they just have untagged mo and then he'd sign elsewhere in FA and that would be that? Yes but I think we have some penalty for tagging a player and then rescinding it. Like not only can't we tag another player but we can't tag someone next year either or something. I forget what the penalty is, but teams can't play that game with the game's best UFAs the way they can with RFAs (like we did with Kellen Clemens on final cut day) or you'd see it happen a lot more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Just now, Sperm Edwards said: Yes but I think we have some penalty for tagging a player and then rescinding it. Like not only can't we tag another player but we can't tag someone next year either or something. I forget what the penalty is, but teams can't play that game with the game's best UFAs the way they can with RFAs (like we did with Kellen Clemens on final cut day) or you'd see it happen a lot more often. didn't miami do this with vernon though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said: even if you're right, would the jets still deal mo now, with harrison gone? how much would they allow the d-line to be depleted, even if, say, they got the 14th pick in the draft which seems unlikely. at this point my money is on the jets waiting it out and getting a long term deal done with him. they will probably add another olb in the draft and the defense will be in pretty good shape. Maybe they don't think it will further deplete the DL much. Or not enough to pay him $15M anyway. It's not like Williams and Richardson still wouldn't be one of the league's top 3-4 end duos. 1 minute ago, Augustiniak said: didn't miami do this with vernon though? Did they? I thought they just put the transition tag on Vernon. Since no picks are involved in transition tag players one way or the other, and still truly leaves the player to bolt for or get the highest $ possible (unlike a franchise tagged player who doesn't enjoy such opportunity), I don't know that it's the same thing. Teams have done it before. It's just very uncommon. Seattle did it with Leroy Hill in 2009. I think the Bengals did it with someone in the past 10 years but can't remember with whom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 The good news that I'm taking away from this: We are getting serious about addressing the OLB position this off-season. This rumor about Vernon gives us a lil peak as to what skill-set the team values in their OLBs, and at what price point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 20 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: This is also a distinct possibility, but of all teams how would the Jets' name get in there? We already have a better Vernon we know, tagged for the 2016 season. So I think there's a good chance Mac at least picked up a phone. Now he may have been only 1 of 3 teams to even pick up a phone and get as far as, "How much? $15M??? Bah! [*click*]." lol There are other possibilities. One is they were showing interest in Vernon without any real bidding, and get this leaked in an attempt to put pressure on Mo to sign a deal the Jets want; to show they'll pay but they'll only pay so much on a longer deal, and no one's offering up a pick for him so he might as well take the Jets' offer. Otherwise play under the tag and risk serious injury without one yet again. That idea seems thin in comparison. Plus that could backfire and Mo's (his agent's) stance then turns into "Ah, so you admit without me you're in need of an expensive veteran to get to the passer. Cha-ching!"). I'm sticking with we already had a trade partner lined up from before we tagged him, and that's why we tagged him. Oakland was rumored to be the top party interested in Mo and I don't think they've signed a Mo-comparable player yet. What is the cap number now with all of yesterday's cuts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 2 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said: The good news that I'm taking away from this: We are getting serious about addressing the OLB position this off-season. This rumor about Vernon gives us a lil peak as to what skill-set the team values in their OLBs, and at what price point. +1 For all the talk that Mo is irreplaceable and a must long-term retain, the team is better off with Sheldon + Williams at DE + Vernon at OLB than Mo + Williams at DE + Sheldon at OLB. For the same (or it would seem, less) $. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 8 minutes ago, Larz said: What is the cap number now with all of yesterday's cuts? Don't know. I saw it was between $6-7M before but that was just from posts here. Then we retained Thompkins so say $6M even. Then Cumberland was I think just under $2M and Kerley just over $1M. Say $3M between them, give or take, so my guess is we're now at around the $9M ballpark. Edit: whoa, Thompkins' tag number is $1.7M; a lot more than I realized. So subtract another million and a quarter or so. $7.75M give or take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 3 minutes ago, Larz said: What is the cap number now with all of yesterday's cuts? According to Spotrac we are now sitting pretty at $7.553M (29th in the league) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 13 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: Don't know. I saw it was between $6-7M before. Then we retained Thompkins so say $6M even. Then Cumberland was I think just under $2M and Kerley just over $1M. Say $3M between them, give or take, so my guess is we're now at around the $9M ballpark. How many players under contract for this year? How many picks in the first 5 rounds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heymangold Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 15 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: Don't know. I saw it was between $6-7M before but that was just from posts here. Then we retained Thompkins so say $6M even. Then Cumberland was I think just under $2M and Kerley just over $1M. Say $3M between them, give or take, so my guess is we're now at around the $9M ballpark. Edit: whoa, Thompkins' tag number is $1.7M; a lot more than I realized. So subtract another million and a quarter or so. $7.75M give or take. 1.7 for Thompkins? get rid of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 13 minutes ago, heymangold said: 1.7 for Thompkins? get rid of him. They just tagged him for that amount yesterday. 14 minutes ago, Larz said: How many players under contract for this year? How many picks in the first 5 rounds? I don't know and it's too much to go through. Go to overthecap.com where Jason's laid it all out nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said: They just tagged him for that amount yesterday. I don't know and it's too much to go through. Go to overthecap.com where Jason's laid it all out nicely. Might help the discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heymangold Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: They just tagged him for that amount yesterday. can they remove the tender? haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 20 minutes ago, Larz said: How many players under contract for this year? How many picks in the first 5 rounds? According to one cap site we have 61 active players, 7.533 cap space. We have 5 picks in the 1st 5 rounds, We have one pick for each round except for the 6th rounder which was the cost for Fitzpatrick. Re trade spot for Wilk, perhaps jacksonville, they missed out on vernon and still have a lot of cap room. Vernon and wilk are different player types but maybe they want to add more beef. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 4 minutes ago, heymangold said: can they remove the tender? haha Yes, they can. Even after he signs the tender. It's one of the more dirtbaggy parts of the CBA. Thompkins is tied to the Jets with $0 in guarantees from the time he signs, the Jets aren't tied to him, and no other team can even talk to him. Tannenbaum did it to Clemens on final cutdown day, on camera on Hard Knocks. It was really skeevy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-Rex Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said: It occurred to me when I was making this post in the Olivier Vernon thread. The Jets were in the running (top 3) for Vernon. They (allegedly) only got out when the bidding hit $15M/year, which suggests they were still in it when the bidding was north of $10M, and probably when it was north of $12M, when we only have some $6M or so in available cap room at the moment. If they didn't have a trade partner already lined up for Mo, they run the risk of keeping the newly-signed Vernon on at least a $12M/year deal plus Mo at $15M, plus Williams plus Sheldon. Unless Maccagnan is someone who walks into traffic and then looks to see if any cars are coming after, making any offer suggests they could very well have a deal lined up. Frankly it should mean that or what the hell is he doing lol. The Giants - in a total move of desperation - signed both Snacks and Vernon - making Vernon the highest paid DE in the league. Dumb is as dumb does. G-Men gave Harrison 24 M guaranteed, which is way too much for a two down player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said: It occurred to me when I was making this post in the Olivier Vernon thread. How has nobody given Sperm sh*t for shamelessly starting a new thread, to plug another post he made... by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirorob Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 58 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: Maybe they don't think it will further deplete the DL much. Or not enough to pay him $15M anyway. It's not like Williams and Richardson still wouldn't be one of the league's top 3-4 end duos. Did they? I thought they just put the transition tag on Vernon. Since no picks are involved in transition tag players one way or the other, and still truly leaves the player to bolt for or get the highest $ possible (unlike a franchise tagged player who doesn't enjoy such opportunity), I don't know that it's the same thing. Teams have done it before. It's just very uncommon. Seattle did it with Leroy Hill in 2009. I think the Bengals did it with someone in the past 10 years but can't remember with whom. They put it on him, then pulled it I believe. And why, can't you remember what the Bengals did in the last 10 years. You sir, are a disgrace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 18 minutes ago, Beerfish said: According to one cap site we have 61 active players, 7.533 cap space. We have 5 picks in the 1st 5 rounds, We have one pick for each round except for the 6th rounder which was the cost for Fitzpatrick. Re trade spot for Wilk, perhaps jacksonville, they missed out on vernon and still have a lot of cap room. Vernon and wilk are different player types but maybe they want to add more beef. We shall see. So they can still cut a bunch of guys. Txs I'm driving can't do much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Larz said: So they can still cut a bunch of guys. Txs I'm driving can't do much They really do not have many guys they can out right cut and get value out of, Giacomini is the big one that comes to mind. Other than that they have removed most of the other obvious choices. (Cro, Kerley) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 This is also a distinct possibility, but of all teams how would the Jets' name get in there? We already have a better Vernon we know, tagged for the 2016 season. So I think there's a good chance Mac at least picked up a phone. Now he may have been only 1 of 3 teams to even pick up a phone and get as far as, "How much? $15M??? Bah! [*click*]." lol There are other possibilities. One is they were showing interest in Vernon without any real bidding, and get this leaked in an attempt to put pressure on Mo to sign a deal the Jets want; to show they'll pay but they'll only pay so much on a longer deal, and no one's offering up a pick for him so he might as well take the Jets' offer. Otherwise play under the tag and risk serious injury without one yet again. That idea seems thin in comparison. Plus that could backfire and Mo's (his agent's) stance then turns into "Ah, so you admit without me you're in need of an expensive veteran to get to the passer. Cha-ching!"). I'm sticking with we already had a trade partner lined up from before we tagged him, and that's why we tagged him. Oakland was rumored to be the top party interested in Mo and I don't think they've signed a Mo-comparable player yet. Who needs help at DE, has cap space, and hasn't been active in addressing that need? List should be fairly small Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYJ37/12 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 not 100% on this but I believe you need to be under the cap when the new year kicks off which was yesterday. After that it does not matter again until the first day of next years first day of the league year. So, you can be over the cap right now, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetPotato Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 If trading Mo was contingent on signing Vernon, that means Mo will be a Jet next year. There isn't any other player of that level available. If they were ok with trading Mo away without being assured of landing one, this alleged trade would have already been completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Jets fan Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 1 minute ago, NYJ37/12 said: not 100% on this but I believe you need to be under the cap when the new year kicks off which was yesterday. After that it does not matter again until the first day of next years first day of the league year. So, you can be over the cap right now, I think. I saw yesterday they have to be under the cap everyday of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joejet Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 9 minutes ago, Paradis said: Who needs help at DE, has cap space, and hasn't been active in addressing that need? List should be fairly small Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk The Jags were in the running for Vernon so they are interested in DL and have the necessary cap space. There probably aren't many other teams that fit both criteria. At this point I don't think Wilk is going anywhere and hopefully Mac came get him signed to a multi year deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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