Time to switch QBs

[SAR I]

3 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

And don't forget how Mangold went out midway through the 3rd last Sunday.  No coincidence the O ground to a halt thereafter.  As of that point the only starter on OL from last year was Carpenter, who got hurt earlier this season.  Clady has been more dependable but is making some penalties. 

Of course Qvale looked good at RG, but still.  Ijalana had some issues, too.

Good post.  Big picture, we are a team of many problems and while our QB is not playing great he's not capable of anything more on a great team let alone one that's flawed.

That's why it's NOT time for a quarterback change and we do not need a thread like this on JN.

SAR I

[Big Blocker]

36 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

Lol the draft is a crapshoot. good players are found deep in each round and crap players are tricking teams early. I have faith that Macc will find us players no matter where we draft. To hope your team sucks so you get a good pick is absurd. We will likely be watching other teams in the Playoffs this year but unfortunatly i think that would be the case no matter who our starting QB was. No team with a secondary this bad can be successful. No team that doesn't make adjustments after half time can be successful. our depressing start to the season is not all on Fitz.

I get a headache when fans root for the team to fail just to get a better draft pick.  Especially fans of this team. Robertson, Gholston, Sanchez, Wilson, Milliner.  The Jets might as well not have had a first round pick those years (yeah I know about Richardson but the point remains).

[joewilly12]

Just now, SAR I said:

Good post.  Big picture, we are a team of many problems and while our QB is not playing great he's not capable of anything more on a great team let alone one that's flawed.

That's why it's NOT time for a quarterback change and we do not need a thread like this on JN.

SAR I

Anyone but Fitzpatrick.

[Big Blocker]

29 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

Banned Pats fan troll?

Hard to say, but to quote Marcellus in Hamlet, something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

[SAR I]

4 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Anyone  No one but Fitzpatrick.

Corrected.

SAR I

[Big Blocker]

19 minutes ago, August said:

I lurked here and on another board for a long time before I decided to join. 

Yeah, you waited 3 years to come on here to tout how great Geno Smith is 24/7.

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

SAR I he is at the bottom of every statistic QB related he leads the league in turnovers. 

Sadly you are WRONG. 

My pick if the season ended today would be Qunicy Enunwa. 

Lachlan Edwards

[Big Blocker]

11 minutes ago, August said:

Excuses?

It's called an observation of an objectively correct fact. 

So, why the new handle?

[Big Blocker]

10 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Good post.  Big picture, we are a team of many problems and while our QB is not playing great he's not capable of anything more on a great team let alone one that's flawed.

That's why it's NOT time for a quarterback change and we do not need a thread like this on JN.

SAR I

Well, this thread is pointless, but it's also kind of harmless.  The die has been cast regarding Smith long ago.  If a change is made, it says here it won't be until the Jets are more or less out of the playoff race and Petty is healthy and otherwise ready to go.

Maybe I will be wrong.  Doubt it.

[Big Blocker]

4 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Lachlan Edwards

Edwards had a crap game this past week.  Worst of all was punting it directly to Brown with not enough hang time.  Luckily Pryor did not have to set up his angle, otherwise it would have been a TD on the return.

[August]

6 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

It's called an observation of an objectively correct fact. 

So, why the new handle?

Looks like excuses to me. 

 

Ive never posted here or anywhere else before. 

[PepPep]

Weren't these the 6 brutal games that most Jet fans were expecting the Jets to go 2-4 in AT BEST??? 

Well, we are 1-4 and have a Cardinals team coming up with no QB. If we win, we go 2-4 as predicted by most fans. 

Why are we surprised by these losses? Why are we calling for the coaches head, to bench the QB and not even in favor of the backup but the young kid who may turn into something? I mean, seriously, step back and re-assess the situation. Let's look at the big picture. Were we really expecting much more than what is happening right now? What are we going to do when the Jets go on a winning streak as soon as the tough part of schedule is done and we face the Brown, Rams, Dolphins, Colt, Niners, etc.?? 

I know its fun to react and over-react, but this hysteria is ridiculous. 

[whodeawhodat]

15 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Weren't these the 6 brutal games that most Jet fans were expecting the Jets to go 2-4 in AT BEST??? 

Well, we are 1-4 and have a Cardinals team coming up with no QB. If we win, we go 2-4 as predicted by most fans. 

Why are we surprised by these losses? Why are we calling for the coaches head, to bench the QB and not even in favor of the backup but the young kid who may turn into something? I mean, seriously, step back and re-assess the situation. Let's look at the big picture. Were we really expecting much more than what is happening right now? What are we going to do when the Jets go on a winning streak as soon as the tough part of schedule is done and we face the Brown, Rams, Dolphins, Colt, Niners, etc.?? 

I know its fun to react and over-react, but this hysteria is ridiculous. 

its what most jets fans do...

[Smashmouth]

35 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Weren't these the 6 brutal games that most Jet fans were expecting the Jets to go 2-4 in AT BEST??? 

Well, we are 1-4 and have a Cardinals team coming up with no QB. If we win, we go 2-4 as predicted by most fans. 

Why are we surprised by these losses? Why are we calling for the coaches head, to bench the QB and not even in favor of the backup but the young kid who may turn into something? I mean, seriously, step back and re-assess the situation. Let's look at the big picture. Were we really expecting much more than what is happening right now? What are we going to do when the Jets go on a winning streak as soon as the tough part of schedule is done and we face the Brown, Rams, Dolphins, Colt, Niners, etc.?? 

I know its fun to react and over-react, but this hysteria is ridiculous. 

No ones calling for the coaches head simply because we are losing. We are calling for the coaches head because he's making fundamental mistakes and repeating the same mistakes we called him out on last year over and over. Only difference is last year we were giving the guy a flier because it was his first year as our head coach and his only prior experience was as interim head coach of the Dolphins for 3 games 4 years ago. If Bowles was coaching correctly and not pussing out most of the time and botching time outs and not adjusting to what other teams were showing him no way in hell would he be getting the heat he's getting.

2 times yesterday Bowles kicked the ball back to a hot Steeler offense once on 4th and about a foot and once with 7 min left down by 2 scores on 4th and about 2. With the Steeler offense being as hot as they were and our defense gasping for air the only common sense move down by 2 scores and looking at 1-4 record was to at least give us a shot to win and he did not and I think I read somewhere on this board that was the first time since 2006 that a coach did that. Its fcuking DUMB and if there was ever a chance to change momentum Bowles failed miserably and gave us ZERO chance to win.

[Sperm Edwards]

I'm sorry but did I just read someone blaming the lack of a running game on no longer having D'Brickashaw Ferguson at LT like a year prior? D'Brickashaw Ferguson?

 

[August]

24 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Weren't these the 6 brutal games that most Jet fans were expecting the Jets to go 2-4 in AT BEST??? 

Well, we are 1-4 and have a Cardinals team coming up with no QB. If we win, we go 2-4 as predicted by most fans. 

Why are we surprised by these losses? Why are we calling for the coaches head, to bench the QB and not even in favor of the backup but the young kid who may turn into something? I mean, seriously, step back and re-assess the situation. Let's look at the big picture. Were we really expecting much more than what is happening right now? What are we going to do when the Jets go on a winning streak as soon as the tough part of schedule is done and we face the Brown, Rams, Dolphins, Colt, Niners, etc.?? 

I know its fun to react and over-react, but this hysteria is ridiculous. 

It's the way the team has looked in these losses is the problem. We are being severely outcoached 

[whodeawhodat]

23 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'm sorry but did I just read someone blaming the lack of a running game on no longer having D'Brickashaw Ferguson at LT like a year prior? D'Brickashaw Ferguson?

 

i saw that too...

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, whodeawhodat said:

i saw that too...

Someone knows nothing.

[Smashmouth]

45 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'm sorry but did I just read someone blaming the lack of a running game on no longer having D'Brickashaw Ferguson at LT like a year prior? D'Brickashaw Ferguson?

 

yeah I read that too D-Brick could have been the worst run blocking Tackle I have ever seen

[Lupz27]

Just imagine how awful, sorry more awful (if that's possible) Fitz would look if Marshall didn't play.

The mere mention of his name makes me sick, the fact he isn't holding a clip board next week is my biggest issue with Bowles.

[LIJetsFan]

On 10/9/2016 at 11:17 PM, SAR I said:

Right, so imagine how much worse Geno Smith would have been.

The narrative since the Kansas City game was "if not for the interceptions we would have won both games!"  Well, no interceptions today.  How'd we do?

Look, this quarterback debate is fun and all but it's just masturbation, it's not accomplishing anything.  We do not have the type of quarterback on the roster who can out duel Russell Wilson or Ben Roethlisberger because they do not have the capacity.  But we do have the type of defense that can stop Russell Wilson or Ben Roethlisberger if they play up to their capabilities.

That's the point.

SAR I

There is one point you're overlooking re out D.  That point is playing while behind v.s playing while ahead.  So far it's been mighty rare this this season to have a 3-4 point lead, even momentarily.  Sixpatrick just can't put points on the board.  Endless stalls in the red zone...it's almost always 3 points and a cloud of dust or a pick.

Time for a QB change.  Any QB will due.  Sixpatrick can't win games v.s. good defences.  Period.  Gaily has been scheming ok and getting WRs open but Sixp just locks on his read and ignores the rest.  A QB change....with the next man up having a mandate to go thru his progressions even if it costs him sacks....surely can't be any worse than what we're see now.      

[AFJF]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Someone knows nothing.

I can't remember which game it was this season, but after Fitz was pressured, somebody in my section started bitching about how terrible the O-line was going to be since the Jets "forced" D'Brick to retire.  I honestly can't believe people who think that way are taking the time and possibly spending the money to go to a game.  

[drdetroit]

2 hours ago, AFJF said:

I can't remember which game it was this season, but after Fitz was pressured, somebody in my section started bitching about how terrible the O-line was going to be since the Jets "forced" D'Brick to retire.  I honestly can't believe people who think that way are taking the time and possibly spending the money to go to a game.  

If anything the OL has been the one bright spot

[JetBlue]

On 10/10/2016 at 7:55 AM, SAR I said:

Good post, good to see it from that perspective.

I never realized how tortured Geno Smith must've been this past spring and summer with that going on.

It makes me happy.

SAR I

Don't worry Karma is a Bitch. Be careful what you wish on others as it has a way of coming back to bite you in the ass. 

[SAR I]

3 hours ago, LIJetsFan said:

There is one point you're overlooking re out D.  That point is playing while behind v.s playing while ahead.  So far it's been mighty rare this this season to have a 3-4 point lead, even momentarily.  Sixpatrick just can't put points on the board.  Endless stalls in the red zone...it's almost always 3 points and a cloud of dust or a pick.

Time for a QB change.  Any QB will due.  Sixpatrick can't win games v.s. good defences.  Period.  Gaily has been scheming ok and getting WRs open but Sixp just locks on his read and ignores the rest.  A QB change....with the next man up having a mandate to go thru his progressions even if it costs him sacks....surely can't be any worse than what we're see now.      

That's your emotions getting the best of you.

One doesn't flip the quarterback to spark the team when the team has so many deeper issues than quarterback.  And even if you wanted to, Geno Smith is hated more by his teammates than he is by fans, they'd quit on him just like he's always quit on them.

SAR I

[AFJF]

9 hours ago, drdetroit said:

If anything the OL has been the one bright spot

There have been some positive developments on the O-line but as we've stressed ad nauseum, a lot of that is Fitz getting rid of the ball so quickly.  IIRC he was pressured on 14 passes last week which is just too many IMO.

Oh, and Kellen Davis has got to go.

[LIJetsFan]

7 hours ago, SAR I said:

That's your emotions getting the best of you.

One doesn't flip the quarterback to spark the team when the team has so many deeper issues than quarterback.  And even if you wanted to, Geno Smith is hated more by his teammates than he is by fans, they'd quit on him just like he's always quit on them.

SAR I

No it's not.

Sixpatrick locks on to his primary receiver most of the time.  His go to move is to throw it up for grabs whenever he reads presnap that there is a one on one situation with Marshal, Decker, or Enunwa.  DCs know this and set up traps.  Sixpatrick obliges.  

I understand that our HC is totally out of the loop, except it seems when it comes to deferring to Sixp.  That he's up for.  Gailey schemes to get his WRs open which does happen a good % of the time.  However Gaily can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear (Sixp).  Time for any other QB on the team to try to prove that he is not a sow's ear.

Sadly and IMHO inexplicably, our sow's ear of a HC is not about to let that happen.           

[SAR I]

7 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

No it's not.

Sixpatrick locks on to his primary receiver most of the time.  His go to move is to throw it up for grabs whenever he reads presnap that there is a one on one situation with Marshal, Decker, or Enunwa.  DCs know this and set up traps.  Sixpatrick obliges.  

I understand that our HC is totally out of the loop, except it seems when it comes to deferring to Sixp.  That he's up for.  Gailey schemes to get his WRs open which does happen a good % of the time.  However Gaily can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear (Sixp).  Time for any other QB on the team to try to prove that he is not a sow's ear.

Sadly and IMHO inexplicably, our sow's ear of a HC is not about to let that happen.           

The primary flaw in your argument is that Geno Smith is worse than Ryan Fitzpatrick. Not only does he also lock onto receivers but when he doesn't he holds onto the ball too long.  Fitzpatrick has far better pocket sense and knows when to bail on a play and scramble for yards. 

Probably most importantly is that Geno has lost the respect of the team at this point, leadership matters. 

Let's get Petty healthy and see what he looks like.

SAR I

[no psls]

9 hours ago, JetBlue said:

Don't worry Karma is a Bitch. Be careful what you wish on others as it has a way of coming back to bite you in the ass. 

SAR 1 would like a bite in the ass !!!!!

[JustInFudge]

18 hours ago, SAR I said:

Come now, that's a lot of typing but your premise is completely undermined by your datapoints.  Talk about your false statements and inaccurate stats, LOL.

The Jets first 4 games last year:

Browns (3-13)
at Colts (8-8)
Eagles (7-9)
at Dolphins (6-10)

Not one team with a winning record, 2 games at home, 1 game on a neutral field, this not even remotely comparable to this year's gauntlet to open the season.  At the end of the season, trust me, the Steelers, Seahawks, Bengals, and Chiefs will be in the playoffs and, Christ, the Bills might be too.  And if you don't like my word choice, if "elite" is too narrow a term, just call them "winners" or "playoff-caliber", something the Jets barely saw last season.

The reason that Fitzpatrick is on the team instead of one of the other vets you mentioned is because he had a chemistry with his offense, demonstrated leadership, and performed in big spots last year.  While Maccagnan waits for his babes to incubate Fitzpatrick made the most sense due to his comfort in Gailey's system and the modicum of success he had last year.  If our schedule started with the easy 7 games first, we'd be in wildcard position right now and no one would be complaining. 

SAR I

 

I'll just start with you're right, "elite" was a poor choice of words.  

However, you're comments on being elite clearly are based on the prior season:

So if we're looking for 2015: Browns - duh, Colts went to the AFCCG the year before,  Eagles were 10-6, Dolphags 8-8  - one team below.500 team to start the season.  Now, they all ended up sucking...but then they faced the Redskins who won the division.  The bottom line is, you're acting like the schedule is an excuse and that's just garbage...every one of the teams the Jets have faced this year are beatable.  Vegas had the Jets at 6.5 wins last year largely due to the schedule that ended up sucking.  This season it's 8.  

I can agree to a certain extent about the why behind Fitz but that doesnt mean they're right.  I've argued and still maintain it was a terrible decision to bring him back because now this a stick in the mud franchise getting zero answers about there team, no direction and no future.  They were duped and anyone with open eyes could see that this was coming.  Not sure if that's an indictment on to how stupid this regime is or not but it's looking that way.

And none of that has to do with you saying we're getting the same Fitz when I clearly showed you, were are not.

[PepPep]

17 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

No ones calling for the coaches head simply because we are losing. We are calling for the coaches head because he's making fundamental mistakes and repeating the same mistakes we called him out on last year over and over. Only difference is last year we were giving the guy a flier because it was his first year as our head coach and his only prior experience was as interim head coach of the Dolphins for 3 games 4 years ago. If Bowles was coaching correctly and not pussing out most of the time and botching time outs and not adjusting to what other teams were showing him no way in hell would he be getting the heat he's getting.

2 times yesterday Bowles kicked the ball back to a hot Steeler offense once on 4th and about a foot and once with 7 min left down by 2 scores on 4th and about 2. With the Steeler offense being as hot as they were and our defense gasping for air the only common sense move down by 2 scores and looking at 1-4 record was to at least give us a shot to win and he did not and I think I read somewhere on this board that was the first time since 2006 that a coach did that. Its fcuking DUMB and if there was ever a chance to change momentum Bowles failed miserably and gave us ZERO chance to win.

I get what you are saying and agree to an extent. But I also call b.s. on the fact that fans wouldn't be hysterical and calling for Bowles' head, etc. if he was making all the 'right' moves but the Jets were still losing the way they are right now. I also think that regardless of the bad decisions Bowles had made this season, if we were winning, nobody would be talking about them. Nobody would be saying 'hey, I know we won but can you believe Bowles decided to call a TO or decided to punt the ball away.' etc., etc.

I was just trying to point out that these are some of the toughest games on our schedule and nobody really believed we could win most of them, 2-4 or 3-3 at best. Now, IF we go on a run and win 4 games in a row or 4 out of 5, nobody will be talking about how the Jets need to pack it in, fire their coach and put their rookie (or 2nd year) QBs in to see what they can do for next year. So a lot of this is reactionary and I think fans need to chill out for a bit and see how things develop, especially considering the schedule eases up and we are only in week 6 of the season and not eliminated from the playoffs (crazy things happen in football every year, especially injuries, teams going on hot streaks and teams slumping).   

Just saying.   

[Maxman]

20 hours ago, SAR I said:

So did I, I thought the defense could win us games.  So if you're keeping score its:

1 - Games Ryan Fizpatrick won
0 - Games the Jets defense won

You do realize that Ryan Fitzpatrick is the leading candidate for team MVP right now, yes?

SAR I

Yeah that is not true. Matt Forte is the offensive MVP right now.

Leonard Williams is the defensive MVP.

Our punter is the special teams MVP.

Brandon Marshall would win offensive MVP before Fitz. You can't be 1 to 2 in TDs to INTs and even be in that discussion.

Brian Winters is ahead of Fitz in the offensive MVP discussion right now.

[Maxman]

16 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Just imagine how awful, sorry more awful (if that's possible) Fitz would look if Marshall didn't play.

The mere mention of his name makes me sick, the fact he isn't holding a clip board next week is my biggest issue with Bowles.

It would be great if they played Geno on Monday night. I wish Bowles wanted to win. If he did Fitz would be on the bench for sure.

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Maxman said:

It would be great if they played Geno on Monday night. I wish Bowles wanted to win. If he did Fitz would be on the bench for sure.

Start Geno Smith on Monday night and turn this season around. The Jets made a $12 million dollar mistake admit it bench Fitzpatrick and lets move on.

[Maxman]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

Start Geno Smith on Monday night and turn this season around. The Jets made a $12 million dollar mistake admit it bench Fitzpatrick and lets move on.

If they start Geno every game the rest of the way, they will end up 11 and 5.