Time to switch QBs

[August]

Just now, bitonti said:

because the backup needs all the reps he can get 

Because going by your logic of Geno is only on the team because Petty hurt his shoulder doesn't jive with reality. They intended to keep 4 QB's. If Petty was going to be the guy and they intended to cut Geno, they wouldn't have played their backup in a meaningless 4th preseason game. Geno would've played in that game so they could see if he's worth keeping and/or to give him one last chance to state his claim for a roster spot before cutting him. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, Maxman said:

Very true. The organization needs more accountability.

Bowles should have said we want Fitz back, he did good things this year that we would like to build on. But jobs are not guaranteed on this team so it is something we will sort out when we get everyone under contract.

No doubt. But this is the same HC out there right now still yapping that his QB's job is safe and secure. 

[bitonti]

7 minutes ago, August said:

Because going by your logic of Geno is only on the team because Petty hurt his shoulder doesn't jive with reality. They intended to keep 4 QB's. If Petty was going to be the guy and they intended to cut Geno, they wouldn't have played their backup in a meaningless 4th preseason game. Geno would've played in that game so they could see if he's worth keeping and/or to give him one last chance to state his claim for a roster spot before cutting him. 

 

 

ok sure i can see that point. but there could be other reasons. maybe Geno smith didn't play because they were trying to trade him. Maybe they would have cut Geno if Petty throws 4tds. it wasn't all settled before the Eagles game. 

[phill1c]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Maybe they would have cut Geno if Petty throws 4tds.

the notion of a Petty love affair seems farcical when one considers that they drafted ANOTHER GUY with a 2nd round pick and he had all of two good series against backups, followed by a pretty bad series of turnovers and low completion percentage.

But, hey, it's farcical how this season is playing out, so I have no reasonable expectation that these guys really know what they are doing.

[bitonti]

5 minutes ago, phill1c said:

the notion of a Petty love affair seems farcical 

 

honestly the notion of any non first round QB being worth a damn seems farcical.

How many QBs starters this weekend were 1 overall, 2 overall type picks? Wentz (2) vs Stafford (1). Eli (1) vs Rodgers (22).   if Cam plays it's Cam (1) vs Winston (1) on MNF. Minny is starting Bradford (1). Big Ben was a 10 pick or there abouts. 

the idea that the Jets can just find a 2nd or 4th rounder and he will be the next Russell Wilson, that's the farce. All of these guys suck, probably. 

 

put it another way if Geno, Hack or Petty were legit starting prospects they would have gone round 1. Friggin Tebow went rd 1. the fact they didn't go means the league's scouting community as a whole graded them out as backups. Could they surprise? It's possible but it's not worth fighting fellow Jets fans over. 

Kellen Clemens. That's what a 2nd round pick normally turns into. We are talking about putting in the next Kellen Clemens. 

[phill1c]

Just now, bitonti said:

honestly the notion of any non first round QB being worth a damn seems farcical.

How many QBs starters this weekend were 1 overall, 2 overall type picks? Wentz (2) vs Stafford (1). Eli (1) vs Rodgers (22).   if Cam plays it's Cam (1) vs Winston (1) on MNF

the idea that the Jets can just find a 2nd or 4th rounder and he will be the next Russell Wilson, that's the farce. All of these guys suck, probably. 

My opinion:

QBs are mostly the product of the talent around them.

So, yeah, I think any of these guys on the roster NOW, TODAY are probably as good or better than who starts for us, Mr. One Read, Marshall Only. The Jets QBs have sucked because they haven't had an OL worth a sh!t or WRs and TEs that can separate or catch.

Turnovers happen. The focus on eliminating them vs. quick-strike scoring is what is hamstringing this offense.

[bitonti]

Just now, phill1c said:

QBs are mostly the product of the talent around them.

 

I see it the other way. Good QBs make everyone around them better. Bad QBs have their fans calling for more weaponz. 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, phill1c said:

Lots of validity in this statement.

That said, I think there should have been a competition in training camp because both of these guys have proven that when they are anointed without competition, they will sh!t the bed, as Fitzpatrick did in the last game of last season.

When you chase last year's starting QB all offseason long, and sign him on the eve of camp, there is no competition. That's just the bed that's made.

[cant wait]

30 minutes ago, bitonti said:

honestly the notion of any non first round QB being worth a damn seems farcical.

How many QBs starters this weekend were 1 overall, 2 overall type picks? Wentz (2) vs Stafford (1). Eli (1) vs Rodgers (22).   if Cam plays it's Cam (1) vs Winston (1) on MNF. Minny is starting Bradford (1). Big Ben was a 10 pick or there abouts. 

the idea that the Jets can just find a 2nd or 4th rounder and he will be the next Russell Wilson, that's the farce. All of these guys suck, probably. 

 

put it another way if Geno, Hack or Petty were legit starting prospects they would have gone round 1. Friggin Tebow went rd 1. the fact they didn't go means the league's scouting community as a whole graded them out as backups. Could they surprise? It's possible but it's not worth fighting fellow Jets fans over. 

Kellen Clemens. That's what a 2nd round pick normally turns into. We are talking about putting in the next Kellen Clemens. 

I thought this was a fun nugget:

last week: Winston (#1) vs siemian (#250)

week 3: Alex smith (#1) vs fitz (#250)

[phill1c]

48 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I see it the other way. Good QBs make everyone around them better. Bad QBs have their fans calling for more weaponz. 

Meet in the middle then:

Good QBs make people better

Good QBs cannot totally compensate for ridiculously untalented offensive personnel or bad coaching

[phill1c]

40 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

When you chase last year's starting QB all offseason long, and sign him on the eve of camp, there is no competition. That's just the bed that's made.

Yeah, I recognize what bed was made. Interestingly, today's lack of two-a-days somewhat hamstring what you can reasonably do in training camp. But, I think a competition could have been had because both QBs had experience in the system, one as a starter, one as a backup who practiced all offseason. 

I'm suggesting that the bed made is what we are laying in right now.

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

Why did the MORONS keep 4 QB's they wasted a valuable roster spot

Poor management and coaching all need to go

Because of Geno Smith busting, that's why.

We have the 3 classic quarterback positions covered:  Veteran, Groomsman, Raw Prospect.  The "fourth" quarterback on the roster, the "moron" quarterback as you put it, is Geno Smith.  With Petty injured and Hack a no-go, Smith was the only option for the rare "Lame Duck Bust Emergency" role.

SAR I

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, Maxman said:

So what is the point of playing Fitzpatrick if you think he will lead them to 7 and 9? Makes no sense.

If he is doing all he is capable of, he isn't capable of enough. Time to move on like the thread title says.

The point of signing FItzpatrick in the offseason was to try to fight the first 6 games, 5 against playoff teams, 4 on the road, and try to make the playoffs.  The Jets FO felt they had a legitimate shot of going 3-3 or thereabouts if they had a guy who played well down the stretch last year as opposed to a guy who didn't contribute for a full year and sucked in Oakland and sucked for 2014 in its entirety.  I did not support the Jets decision here, I was actually ambivalent, but I understood it.

The point of playing Fitzpatrick right now is because Bryce Petty is injured.  Can't move on if moving on means Geno Smith.

SAR I

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, Maxman said:

 

What I do care about is the team finding a QB that can win a Super Bowl in this league. Because we know that Ryan Fitzpatrick can't.

Then you should be happy because Maccagnan has a plan.  He's drafting interesting prospects with all the tools just not in a pro-system.  That means if all goes well, after a year they will be acclimated to a pro-style offense and their natural abilities can shine through.  Will it work?  I don't know.  But at least there is a method I can support.

As for this year being some Super season, come on, that was never going to happen.

SAR I

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, Maxman said:

If the Jets lost on Monday night, do you bench Fitz then? Let's say he has a 3 INT game. And Petty isn't ready yet.

What would you do then?

You stay the course with Ryan Fitzpatrick because you need his confidence high for the string of games coming Week 8 thru 14 in which we should go 6-1.

As difficult as the first 6 weeks are, the following 7 are not.

SAR I

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

because the backup needs all the reps he can get 

Yes, and since he had such an awful camp and preseason they were hoping he'd show something as potential trade bait.

SAR I

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

I see it the other way. Good QBs make everyone around them better. Bad QBs have their fans calling for more weaponz. 

@Maxman PLEASE MAKE THIS THE SITE BANNER

[drdetroit]

The time was 5 weeks ago

[joewilly12]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

You stay the course with Ryan Fitzpatrick because you need his confidence high for the string of games coming Week 8 thru 14 in which we should go 6-1.

As difficult as the first 6 weeks are, the following 7 are not.

SAR I

What confidence what is he bringing to the table he's the lowest rated QB in the NFL leads the NFL in turnovers he's a bum laughing all the way to the bank collecting $12 million knowing this is it for him in the NFL and laughing at all the dumb teams that paid him all that money. 

[Big Blocker]

Watching Fitz have a decent game yesterday, I wondered if the Smith Fans would temper their whining today, and focus on why the Jets lost to Pitt.

Well, I did wonder. Just not that much.

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Big Blocker said:

Watching Fitz have a decent game yesterday, I wondered if the Smith Fans would temper their whining today, and focus on why the Jets lost to Pitt.

Well, I did wonder. Just not that much.

Decent??????? LOL   What changes the 6 INT game??????  What changes the lowest ranking QB in the NFL???????  Fitzpatrick SUCKS what don't you understand. 

ANYONE but Fitzpatrick

 

[Big Blocker]

6 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Decent??????? LOL   What changes the 6 INT game??????  What changes the lowest ranking QB in the NFL???????  Fitzpatrick SUCKS what don't you understand. 

ANYONE but Fitzpatrick

 

I said he had a decent game yesterday.  By any standards he did.

It occurs to me it is pointless to argue with the Smith Fans, on two counts.  One is barring injury he is not, in any event and no matter what is said here, going to figure in the Jets' future.  Second is that being the case what is the point of arguing with people who do not get that?  Who instead want to talk about some kind of fantasy notion?

Btw the pass defense is the lowest ranked in the NFL.  And played like it, this time albeit with "assistance" from the Jets lack of a pass rush, yesterday.  As in the most recent game, the most recent loss.  That is more topical than Fitz's game against KC.

[56mehl56]

6 hours ago, SAR I said:

Fitzpatrick and the offense had a good first half, they moved the ball well, they scored twice. 

The issue is that Pittsburgh made halftime adjustments to stop what we were doing and we didn't make any adjustments of our own.  Combine that with two of our starting WR's out hurt, an OL that can't run block, an ineffective Forte, dropped passes, and lousy playcalling and it's a recipe for disaster in a tough road stadium.

SAR I

Oh if only Fitz had the weaponzzzzz

[peebag]

16 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

I said he had a decent game yesterday.  By any standards he did.

It occurs to me it is pointless to argue with the Smith Fans, on two counts.  One is barring injury he is not, in any event and no matter what is said here, going to figure in the Jets' future.  Second is that being the case what is the point of arguing with people who do not get that?  Who instead want to talk about some kind of fantasy notion?

Btw the pass defense is the lowest ranked in the NFL.  And played like it, this time albeit with "assistance" from the Jets lack of a pass rush, yesterday.  As in the most recent game, the most recent loss.  That is more topical than Fitz's game against KC.

It's not that I'm a fan of Geno.  It's just that Fitzy is done.  Kaput.  Who knows, if we replace him maybe we catch lightening in a bottle.  I doubt it but at least we could hope.

 

And there's not a lot of that around this team.

[Big Blocker]

Just now, peebag said:

It's not that I'm a fan of Geno.  It's just that Fitzy is done.  Kaput.  Who knows, if we replace him maybe we catch lightening in a bottle.  I doubt it but at least we could hope.

 

And there's not a lot of that around this team.

Fitzpatrick had a decent game yesterday.  He was not the reason they lost. 

Petty is not an option until he's better.  Smith we know sucks.

 

That about covers it.

[56mehl56]

6 hours ago, bealeb319 said:

From that it sounds like this loss really isn't on Fitz then? I know alot of fans are getting frustrated and the QB is an easy person to blame for a loss but from the stats and from what i heard on the radio it sounded like Fitz played a good safe game which really is what he was all that he was expected to do.

Is getting 10 points what you want from your starting QB ???  Did he have a good game because his receivers prevented him from throwing more picks ??

Did Pittsburgh stack the box because Fitz can't beat them deep ??  Did the Jets try to throw deep ??

If that's satisfactory then Fitz is your guy !! Yay the loss is not on the conquering hero.

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Big Blocker said:

Fitzpatrick had a decent game yesterday.  He was not the reason they lost. 

Petty is not an option until he's better.  Smith we know sucks.

 

That about covers it.

He did not have a decent game only in the eyes of FitzNation did he have a decent game decent because he didnt throw an INT the TD pass he threw was an INT had it not been for Marshall wrestling the ball away from the defender. 

Fitzpatrick sucks. 

[peebag]

2 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

Fitzpatrick had a decent game yesterday.  He was not the reason they lost. 

Petty is not an option until he's better.  Smith we know sucks.

 

That about covers it.

No,Fitz did not have a decent day and no, we don't know what we have with Geno.

[whodeawhodat]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

The point of signing FItzpatrick in the offseason was to try to fight the first 6 games, 5 against playoff teams, 4 on the road, and try to make the playoffs.  The Jets FO felt they had a legitimate shot of going 3-3 or thereabouts if they had a guy who played well down the stretch last year as opposed to a guy who didn't contribute for a full year and sucked in Oakland and sucked for 2014 in its entirety.  I did not support the Jets decision here, I was actually ambivalent, but I understood it.

The point of playing Fitzpatrick right now is because Bryce Petty is injured.  Can't move on if moving on means Geno Smith.

SAR I

QFT

[56mehl56]

3 hours ago, Maxman said:

If the Jets lost on Monday night, do you bench Fitz then? Let's say he has a 3 INT game. And Petty isn't ready yet.

What would you do then?

Nope they'll keep trotting out Fitzy , there are some easier games on the backend of the schedule. Fitzy will win a few and prove all us Geno lovers wrong.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, whodeawhodat said:

QFT

QFT? He's dead wrong.

Oddly enough, if there's one person who was brought back and kept on the final roster, because of the difficulty of the first 6 games, it's Geno. Fitz they would have re-signed and started no matter what because they're managing the roster like it's a popularity contest. Absent the early schedule there's a much better chance they'd have gone into the season with Petty as the #2. 

Then again, with the current braintrust, who knows. 

[56mehl56]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

The point of signing FItzpatrick in the offseason was to try to fight the first 6 games, 5 against playoff teams, 4 on the road, and try to make the playoffs.  The Jets FO felt they had a legitimate shot of going 3-3 or thereabouts if they had a guy who played well down the stretch last year as opposed to a guy who didn't contribute for a full year and sucked in Oakland and sucked for 2014 in its entirety.  I did not support the Jets decision here, I was actually ambivalent, but I understood it.

The point of playing Fitzpatrick right now is because Bryce Petty is injured.  Can't move on if moving on means Geno Smith.

SAR I

This may be the most insane defense of Fitz on record.  11 years of evidence shows that Fitz has what a 10% chance of winning against playoff teams. There's no way this CS and front office could feel that Fitz would lead us to even a .500 record through these 6 games.

[whodeawhodat]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

QFT? He's dead wrong.

Oddly enough, if there's one person who was brought back and kept on the final roster, because of the difficulty of the first 6 games, it's Geno. Fitz they would have re-signed and started no matter what because they're managing the roster like it's a popularity contest. Absent the early schedule there's a much better chance they'd have gone into the season with Petty as the #2. 

Then again, with the current braintrust, who knows. 

popularity contest held by who? the fans? team? ownership?

If it was Geno like you said, wouldnt he have started yesterday? 

on a side note, i was thinking about responding to your message as "QFT" as well.  I am that far over today lol

[SAR I]

4 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

This may be the most insane defense of Fitz on record.  11 years of evidence shows that Fitz has what a 10% chance of winning against playoff teams. There's no way this CS and front office could feel that Fitz would lead us to even a .500 record through these 6 games.

I am not defending Ryan Fitzpatrick.  I am not a Ryan Fitzpatrick fan.

I am trying to rationalize why he is on the team and why Geno Smith rides the bench and the picture that gets painted is that the FO felt that Ryan Fitzpatrick gave us the best chance to get out of the gate towards a playoff season as he won 10 games last year, has a full year in the Gailey system, and was a better player and team leader than the other alternatives on the roster.

Regarding your evidence, very valid, I will speculate that the same Jets FO felt they were going to have the #2 defense in the entire NFL and thus Ryan Fitzpatrick could buck his own trend and start beating, say, half the winning teams on his schedule.  He'd get lots of turnovers, lots of plus field position, he'd just have to game manage to win.  They were wrong on all counts.

SAR I

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

What confidence what is he bringing to the table he's the lowest rated QB in the NFL leads the NFL in turnovers he's a bum laughing all the way to the bank collecting $12 million knowing this is it for him in the NFL and laughing at all the dumb teams that paid him all that money. 

Ryan Fitzpatrick's salary is exactly at the mean of lower-level tier NFL starters and upper-tier NFL backups and the Kansas City game is an outlier.

In the other 4 games Ryan Fitzpatrick has played this season, not a single INT led directly to a loss, only 1 happened that was unfortunate, and they all occurred when we were pressing to make a comeback:

Bengals - 1 INT - He had the lead at the two minute warning before the D blew it.
Buffalo - 0 INT - AFC Offensive Player Of The Week
Seattle - 3 INT - Two were in garbage time, the Sherman pick was on the 39 yard line and the D blew it in 4 plays
Pittsburgh - 0 INT - He had a strong first half but second half adjustments and continued D vomit gave us no chance

That's 4 INT's in 4 games, hardly a disaster.  That's with horrible playcalling, a stud RB who can only manage 30 yards a game, down two starting WR's, and a D that provides terrible field position.

Only 1 INT happened when it mattered and the defense should have stopped a gimpy Russell Wilson and a porous OL from going 61 yards in four plays in under two minutes.

This is why Ryan Fitzpatrick is our starting quarterback.  He's actually playing well.

SAR I