Time to switch QBs

[joewilly12]

How can Woody Johnson not see this organization is a bunch of MORONS 

Wake up Woody 

[Maxman]

2 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

all of our opponents QBs have had OVER 105 QBR playing our defense....  Not saying that Fitz is anything short of garbage right now but our defense has no excuse, really.  as you said our O is at least sustaining drives so our defense should be fresh.

 

I am not arguing there. Not at all.

But there are changes you can make overnight and ones you can't. Kacy and Bowles need to figure out the defense. I don't like firing coordinators mid season but I don't see how Kacy is here next year. Bench a safety, start Rontez. Bench Marcus Williams. I am all for it.

Accountability.

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

How can Woody Johnson not see this organization is a bunch of MORONS 

Wake up Woody 

Well the owner is a moron.

[Maxman]

2 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Geno Smith has turned the ball over 43 times in 31 games. And you want to turn the quarterback position over to him with no semblance of a run game and a below average offensive line. Why? It's literally the definition of insanity.

Geno has never played in this offense and his stats are from when he was younger. More importantly, this isn't about GENO SMITH. I don't care if they start Hack this week.

What I do care about is the team finding a QB that can win a Super Bowl in this league. Because we know that Ryan Fitzpatrick can't.

[bitonti]

It doesn't matter if Fitz throws 100 interceptions, Geno is worse. Geno will always be worse.

 

There's no point in benching a terrible player for an even worse player. 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Maxman said:

I am not arguing there. Not at all.

But there are changes you can make overnight and ones you can't. Kacy and Bowles need to figure out the defense. I don't like firing coordinators mid season but I don't see how Kacy is here next year. Bench a safety, start Rontez. Bench Marcus Williams. I am all for it.

Accountability.

the problem is, it's increasingly obvious that coaching is a big part of the problem here.  it's not any one guy's fault.

[Maxman]

7 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

the problem is, they went into the season with a backup qb they never intended to play.  so now they're forced to keep saying the starter is better than the backup even though the starter sucks.  they backed themselves into a corner with fitz and geno.  it's a perfect storm now, with all these good teams they're playing.  

This I agree with. They should have had the balls to just cut Geno. Then Petty could have been the backup. Except they had him out there in the last game and he got hurt.

The QB development process of this regime is a big concern. They have a lot (their jobs) riding on Hack being a franchise QB.

[Maxman]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

the problem is, it's increasingly obvious that coaching is a big part of the problem here.  it's not any one guy's fault.

Bowles is having a terrible year. I totally agree.

But you can't make a head coaching change in week 6 of year two. You can bench a journeyman QB that isn't any good.

[Maxman]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

It doesn't matter if Fitz throws 100 interceptions, Geno is worse. Geno will always be worse.

 

There's no point in benching a terrible player for an even worse player. 

Accountability. If you don't perform, you won't play. That is the message.

The message they are sending now is mediocrity. If you play okay, we will let you miss all the offseason stuff and reward you with 12 million dollars the night before camp starts. Hope you did some yoga this offseason because practice starts tomorrow.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Maxman said:

This I agree with. They should have had the balls to just cut Geno. Then Petty could have been the backup. Except they had him out there in the last game and he got hurt.

The QB development process of this regime is a big concern. They have a lot (their jobs) riding on Hack being a franchise QB.

it's always about developing qbs.  and you have to wonder at this point if the jets' draft strategy was altered by always assuming fitz would return so they weren't going to take someone like prescott/lynch who they would be more comfortable throwing in right away.

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Bowles is having a terrible year. I totally agree.

But you can't make a head coaching change in week 6 of year two. You can bench a journeyman QB that isn't any good.

they're not benching fitz for geno, this much is clear by now.  we may never know what their true strategy was before petty got hurt.

[Tinstar]

1 minute ago, Maxman said:

Bowles is having a terrible year. I totally agree.

But you can't make a head coaching change in week 6 of year two. You can bench a journeyman QB that isn't any good.

No you can't and no you shouldn't on both accounts .  The time to make a decision on Fitzpatrick came and went and we made the wrong decision . It's too early to make a change and too late to admit the mistake . Neither option helps anyone .

[Embrace the Suck]

10 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Geno Smith has turned the ball over 43 times in 31 games. And you want to turn the quarterback position over to him with no semblance of a run game and a below average offensive line. Why? It's literally the definition of insanity.

I don't like Geno, but it's a better ratio than we're getting now. The threat of a deep ball would potentially open up the run game as well as short and mid range routes. Again for the dismissive guys who think anything anti fitz is pro geno - he's an immature moron I don't want him. However, he has physicals tools that fitz doesn't, and while Geno is a dolt Fitz's Harvard ed is worth much. 

[Maxman]

3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

they're not benching fitz for geno, this much is clear by now.  we may never know what their true strategy was before petty got hurt.

That is definitely clear, let's just hope Petty is ready to go soon.

[Maxman]

3 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

No you can't and no you shouldn't on both accounts .  The time to make a decision on Fitzpatrick came and went and we made the wrong decision . It's too early to make a change and too late to admit the mistake . Neither option helps anyone .

If the Jets lost on Monday night, do you bench Fitz then? Let's say he has a 3 INT game. And Petty isn't ready yet.

What would you do then?

[CrazyCarl40]

5 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Geno has never played in this offense and his stats are from when he was younger. More importantly, this isn't about GENO SMITH. I don't care if they start Hack this week.

What I do care about is the team finding a QB that can win a Super Bowl in this league. Because we know that Ryan Fitzpatrick can't.

That's not true. He has played in this offense both a full game last year against the Raiders and for two preseasons and training camps. All of that and the staff still rushed Fitz back from surgery and brought him back in the off season.

I'm all for finding a QB that can win a Super Bowl for the Jets and no one is delusional enough to think Fitz can. Geno can't either. The one guy on the roster who everyone wants to see is hurt. Hack isn't a viable option right now. I'm just not sure what is to be gained by playing Geno. He is who has always been.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Maxman said:

That is definitely clear, let's just hope Petty is ready to go soon.

lost in all the losing/poor play is that noone is pressing bowles about the extent of petty's injury.  they're getting a free pass on this it seems.  he was injured on sept. 2, so we're at 5+ weeks.

[Maxman]

3 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

That's not true. He has played in this offense both a full game last year against the Raiders and for two preseasons and training camps. All of that and the staff still rushed Fitz back from surgery and brought him back in the off season.

I'm all for finding a QB that can win a Super Bowl for the Jets and no one is delusional enough to think Fitz can. Geno can't either. The one guy on the roster who everyone wants to see is hurt. Hack isn't a viable option right now. I'm just not sure what is to be gained by playing Geno. He is who has always been.

Then I would simply send a message to the entire team that says, if you don't play well you don't play. And Fitz would get benched.

[Tinstar]

1 minute ago, Maxman said:

If the Jets lost on Monday night, do you bench Fitz then? Let's say he has a 3 INT game. And Petty isn't ready yet.

What would you do then?

When the schedule came out, I thought the Jets would start the season 0-6 and finish 9-7, but only if they didn't switch QBs . I still believe that, so no, I would stick with Fitz .

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Maxman said:

Then I would simply send a message to the entire team that says, if you don't play well you don't play. And Fitz would get benched.

i asked bowles at taste of the jets what would he do if petty or hackenberg were lights out in preseason, who would he start.  his answer was 'best man plays'.  is that still the case?

[CrazyCarl40]

2 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

I don't like Geno, but it's a better ratio than we're getting now. The threat of a deep ball would potentially open up the run game as well as short and mid range routes. Again for the dismissive guys who think anything anti fitz is pro geno - he's an immature moron I don't want him. However, he has physicals tool that fitz doesn't, and while he's a dolt Fitz's Harvard ed is worth much. 

Deep balls. Physical tools. Blah, blah, blah. People can spout all they want about Geno, but at the end of the day he is what he is. A poor decision maker. An inaccurate QB. A guy who panics at the slightest pressure in the pocket. A guy who would rather take a sack at a crucial time than throw the ball away. He's not a smart player and he's not a player that should see the field for the Jets.

Just now, Maxman said:

Then I would simply send a message to the entire team that says, if you don't play well you don't play. And Fitz would get benched.

Then they wouldn't have enough players to play the game.

[Embrace the Suck]

Just now, Tinstar said:

When the schedule came out, I thought the Jets would start the season 0-6 and finish 9-7, but only if they didn't switch QBs . I still believe that, so no, I would stick with Fitz .

Why? For sake of mediocrity? I mean not that drafting in the teens hasn't been a blast.

[bitonti]

11 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Accountability. If you don't perform, you won't play. That is the message.

The message they are sending now is mediocrity. If you play okay, we will let you miss all the offseason stuff and reward you with 12 million dollars the night before camp starts. Hope you did some yoga this offseason because practice starts tomorrow.

 

believe it or not, Fitz is playing better than Geno would. Everyone employed by the Jets sees this guy in practice, they saw him all offseason if he was even close to decent they wouldn't have signed Fitz. They are losing and that sucks but this idea that anyone else would be better is based on hope not on facts. 

Let's be real Max it was a game in Pittsburgh, a piece of soil they historically lose that game. Geno wouldn't have done better. 

I've heard it asked why even keep Geno on the roster? It's a good question. They probably would have cut him, if not for Petty's shoulder being blown up. He's a healthy body in case Fitz get's hurt, that's it.  He probably should have been cut, so that he could start the next chapter in his career, poisoning Miami's locker room. 

[Embrace the Suck]

3 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Deep balls. Physical tools. Blah, blah, blah. People can spout all they want about Geno, but at the end of the day he is what he is. A poor decision maker. An inaccurate QB. A guy who panics at the slightest pressure in the pocket. A guy who would rather take a sack at a crucial time than throw the ball away. He's not a smart player and he's not a player that should see the field for the Jets.

Then they wouldn't have enough players to play the game.

Poor decision maker, inaccurate, and leaves the pocket early. Sounds a lot like Fitz...   "deep balls physical tools blah blah blah" Yeah you know the weapon that has been killing the Jets all season. Something Fitz cannot throw.

[cant wait]

1 minute ago, Embrace the Suck said:

Poor decision maker, inaccurate, and leaves the pocket early. Sounds a lot like Fitz...  

I hope the young QB's are learning from fitz... you can suck worse than anybody in the league, but as long as you're likable then fanboys will make endless excuses for your awful play. like clockwork 

[CrazyCarl40]

6 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

Poor decision maker, inaccurate, and leaves the pocket early. Sounds a lot like Fitz...   "deep balls physical tools blah blah blah" Yeah you know the weapon that has been killing the Jets all season. Something Fitz cannot throw.

Sure. So why are you replacing one bad light bulb for another, dimmer bulb? Change for change sake is a bad idea.

[August]

6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

believe it or not, Fitz is playing better than Geno would. Everyone employed by the Jets sees this guy in practice, they saw him all offseason if he was even close to decent they wouldn't have signed Fitz. They are losing and that sucks but this idea that anyone else would be better is based on hope not on facts. 

Let's be real Max it was a game in Pittsburgh, a piece of soil they historically lose that game. Geno wouldn't have done better. 

I've heard it asked why even keep Geno on the roster? It's a good question. They probably would have cut him, if not for Petty's shoulder being blown up. He's a healthy body in case Fitz get's hurt, that's it.  He probably should have been cut, so that he could start the next chapter in his career, poisoning Miami's locker room. 

So then why was Petty playing in that 4th preseason game if Geno's roster spot was in jeopardy? They were going to carry 4 QB's no matter what. 

[August]

1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Sure. So why are you replacing one bad light bulb for another, dimmer bulb? Change for change sake is a bad idea.

That's terrible logic. 

[Maxman]

17 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i asked bowles at taste of the jets what would he do if petty or hackenberg were lights out in preseason, who would he start.  his answer was 'best man plays'.  is that still the case?

Apparently not.

[Guest]

It's time to change organizational philosophy.

[Big Blocker]

28 minutes ago, Maxman said:

 

But there are changes you can make overnight and ones you can't. Kacy and Bowles need to figure out the defense. I don't like firing coordinators mid season but I don't see how Kacy is here next year. Bench a safety, start Rontez. Bench Marcus Williams. I am all for it.

Accountability.

For the most part  I liked Gilchrist last year, but he was pretty much invisible yesterday.  Pryor was not playing well except for that nice open field special teams tackle.  Even on that, though, I guess he was set up for the right angle just by where he was on the field, without moving much.  Point is I don't think it makes much difference between them who sits down for Miles, but yeah he should be playing more.  He was one of the few who had a good game yesterday.

And definitely bench M Williams.  He sucks. I'd even see about maybe Roberts doing the three man rotation with Skrine and Revis, not that Buster had much of a game yesterday, either.  In fact I would pick Williams as most likely to be benched on the whole team right now.

[Embrace the Suck]

10 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Sure. So why are you replacing one bad light bulb for another, dimmer bulb? Change for change sake is a bad idea.

Why is change for the sake of change a bad idea when the team is floundering? It's called accountability, maybe it lights fire under the ass of a few underachieving players. The dim bulb can change the dynamic of the game with his arm. The slightly less dim bulb can't. What happens at worst? Geno throws an int, the jets lose a game, as if we haven't seen either of those things repeatedly this season. And if the vets who are supposed to be leaders and professionals can't hack it and throw their high school girl like tantrum they should be traded. No one is bigger than the team.

[bitonti]

10 minutes ago, August said:

So then why was Petty playing in that 4th preseason game if Geno's roster spot was in jeopardy? They were going to carry 4 QB's no matter what. 

because the backup needs all the reps he can get 

[Embrace the Suck]

10 minutes ago, August said:

So then why was Petty playing in that 4th preseason game if Geno's roster spot was in jeopardy? They were going to carry 4 QB's no matter what. 

To get him reps as he's a developing player.

[phill1c]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Except there is going to be no competition when Fitz is brought back under this offseason's circumstances. Maybe if he'd been re-signed in March then they could have focused the media spin to him having to make up for his meltdown in Buffalo. Instead they dragged it out to late July, and all spring long and into the early summer all the talk was only about getting him re-signed. Even then it's a stretch because Bowles anointed him the starter in the first week of January, just like he's doing this season.

I'm not totally following you here.

Yeah, I think you've described the situation of this past offseason very well. I was thinking what I would have done if presented with the same situation. Maybe I'm just being a fan (of the Jets AND of Geno Smith), but the notion that Fitzpatrick really played himself into a non-compete situation, after his CHOKE JOB in the game where even average QB play would have resulted in a playoff berth, seems absurd.

I get it, you have lockerroom politics to consider. But WINNING should be the ultimate consideration. Fitzpatrick's record as a starter for numerous teams was not that good. He's never led any team to the playoffs. So, giving him that kind of job security seems absurd. Yeah, Smith is/was a wildcard. But would a competition have hurt? NO. It probably would have helped this team, if this season's play is any indication:

• both guys get some burn with the starters, so if you have a viable option if the starter sh!ts the bed
• both guys have to WIN the starting job,
• the team understands that good performance is the ONLY way to win or keep a job.

So, instead, we have a situation where losing is tolerated, accepted, condoned. Performance is really not a criterion for having a job. And, really, if you think those young receivers, who are open and not getting the football like playing under Fitz "look to Marshall first, second, and throw to him even if he's covered" Patrick, I have a bridge to sell you.

Bowless seems overmatched, which I really can't believe. And who the **** told him that the Jets could play? I mean, the entire team is playing like a bunch of uncoordinated, disinterested bums. And I think part of the reason is that jobs are guaranteed to underperforming players.