Time to switch QBs

[SAR I]

6 minutes ago, BallinPB said:

well for that statement to be the truth then you actually have to win some games.

Geno Smith isn't a good quarterback, which is bad enough.  The fact that he's worse than Ryan Fitzpatrick should tell you something. 

The Geno Smith Todd Bowles Single Bullet Grassy Knoll Theory is one of my all time Jets theory favorites, truly.  It's a conspiracy!  Eureka!  We suck because we have Tom Brady on our bench and refuse to play him!  Oh, the humanity.

SAR I

[SAR I]

12 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The FO and HC made their own messes. Time did not start in July. 

Time out.  I've got a timeline that goes back to the moment Brett Favre was signed, picks up momentum when Tim Tebow was signed, and really kicks into full gear when Mark Sanchez was inserted behind a fifth string offensive line in a preseason game.  Then you've got Idzik's impulse-buy on Geno Smith like candy at a checkout line, two years of regression, and a house cleaning.

The part I was referring to was just the most recent bit of history.  Handcuffed by salary cap, a franchise quarterback bust, and a brutal opening schedule, the FO made the move that would give us the best chance at a successful season, albeit a small chance.  No one thought the D would be this bad.  We beat the Bengals and Seahawks if the expected D shows up.  We lose the KC debacle on Fitz.  Pittsburgh might have been interesting.  We'd be 3-2 at a minimum right now, would beat the Cardinals too, would be 4-2 with Fitz playing exactly as he is right now.  And then you have the 6-2 stretch that lies ahead, we'd have been 10-4 with the Patriots and Bills between us and the playoffs, would have been fun.

SAR I

[UnitedWhofans]

There's absolutely no reason to switch until Petty is healthy

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, August said:

Giving him a few games is not a waste of time. Again the goal is to find a starting/franchise QB. Seeing if he's matured and seeing how he looks in this offense makes sense. What you're talking about is simply based on emotions. "I don't like him so I want him gone". We are not asking him to be the savior either. That's a little unfair, if he plays well and the offense looks good/decent with him under center then that's a good thing. Because that would make the QB position somewhat less of a question mark, you can bring him back on a reasonable price and he can compete with Petty for the job next year. This team needs a long term QB and seeing if Smith has developed since the last time we saw him 2 years ago makes sense. You see what you have in house before discarding someone simply because of emotional reasons. Not saying that Smith is as much of an unknown as Petty. But we haven't seen him with this much talent and an offensive coordinator that can tailor the offense to his strengths. 

You are only looking at this through the narrow lens of obvious outcomes: impossibly terrible or now super awesome, and sustain that outcome for weeks. The reality is he's far more likely to be in between. You are also denying that there's more to being the team's QB than being a better passer than Ryan Fitzpatrick.

If the offense looks good with him out there without him putting up good numbers, and if it infects the rest of the team to play better than they have, all it means is they needed someone out there other than Fitzpatrick; it doesn't mean they specifically needed Geno. 

Since the only chance of re-signing him is sustained lights-out play for at least a month in a row, and since that is almost assuredly not likely to happen, putting him out there is a waste of time. You want to see him out there? Fitzpatrick has to get injured before Petty is healthy, or Petty has to get re-injured after he replaces Fitzpatrick.

The team is simply not bringing him back, and keeping him on the bench during this team's meltdown shows how obvious this point is.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Time out.  I've got a timeline that goes back to the moment Brett Favre was signed, picks up momentum when Tim Tebow was signed, and really kicks into full gear when Mark Sanchez was inserted behind a fifth string offensive line in a preseason game.  Then you've got Idzik's impulse-buy on Geno Smith like candy at a checkout line, two years of regression, and a house cleaning.

The part I was referring to was just the most recent bit of history.  Handcuffed by salary cap, a franchise quarterback bust, and a brutal opening schedule, the FO made the move that would give us the best chance at a successful season, albeit a small chance.  No one thought the D would be this bad.  We beat the Bengals and Seahawks if the expected D shows up.  We lose the KC debacle on Fitz.  Pittsburgh might have been interesting.  We'd be 3-2 at a minimum right now, would beat the Cardinals too, would be 4-2 with Fitz playing exactly as he is right now.

SAR I

Sanchez sucking is what led to drafting Geno Smith. Deal with that as you cry yourself to sleep at night in your Sanchez nightgown.

[Augustiniak]

27 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Put yourself back in July.  The Jets FO saw the same brutal early schedule that we all did, the Jets FO knew they could not throw Petty into the teeth of these playoff teams, they knew that Geno was already damaged goods and hadn't shown any improvement in OTA's or minicamp, so what exactly was the option?

Exactly.  There was only one option.  Bring back the guy that just set your record for TD's and offensive production in a season.  Better to roll the dice that the journeyman had another season of magic left in him than rot with Geno or get Petty killed.  The Jets had no other choice.  That's why Fitzpatrick is here. 

SAR I

the only other option was to throw petty in there and piss off the veteran leaders of the team.  this is what happens when you have a new gm who doesn't take a qb at the top of the draft year 1.  you wind up in limbo.

[Embrace the Suck]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

the only other option was to throw petty in there and piss off the veteran leaders of the team.  this is what happens when you have a new gm who doesn't take a qb at the top of the draft year 1.  you wind up in limbo.

Sounds like what happens when you have a coach that is afraid of the players.

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

Sounds like what happens when you have a coach that is afraid of the players.

i think he's deferential to the vets and is also afraid to take risks as a coach for fear of being criticized by the media.  i think he coaches scared, and it showed yesterday.

[August]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You are only looking at this through the narrow lens of obvious outcomes: impossibly terrible or now super awesome, and sustain that outcome for weeks. The reality is he's far more likely to be in between. You are also denying that there's more to being the team's QB than being a better passer than Ryan Fitzpatrick.

If the offense looks good with him out there without him putting up good numbers, and if it infects the rest of the team to play better than they have, all it means is they needed someone out there other than Fitzpatrick; it doesn't mean they specifically needed Geno. 

Since the only chance of re-signing him is sustained lights-out play for at least a month in a row, and since that is almost assuredly not likely to happen, putting him out there is a waste of time. You want to see him out there? Fitzpatrick has to get injured before Petty is healthy, or Petty has to get re-injured after he replaces Fitzpatrick.

The team is simply not bringing him back, and keeping him on the bench during this team's meltdown shows how obvious this point is.

I'm not looking at anything from a narrow lense. I'm looking at it from a standpoint of we are not a good team, and we're not making the playoffs, and we need to see what we have in the young guy once and for all. The starter is struggling and when that happens typically a QB switch is used to create a spark. The offense is stagnant right now. I'm not saying putting in Smith is going to solve our problems but it could accomplish several things. We see if he provides a spark, we get a chance to see how he plays with these weapons around him, and we get to a final verdict on him. Also it's not fair for the bar to be higher for Smith compared to what it is for Fitzpatrick and what it would be for Petty. Why exactly does he have to be "sustained lights out for a month"? Why can't he be evaluated normally? 

Bowles not making any changes has more to do with his stubbornness than some secret agenda against Smith. If Petty was the number 2, Fitzpatrick would still be the starter. 

 

[whodeawhodat]

52 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

I was unable to watch this game live but i wasn't unhappy with the first half that i heard from the radio while trying to get back home. Was Fitz really that bad because i thought the first half went pretty well and the defense imploded on itself after that? Keep in mind this was a game no one expected us to win.

 

40 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Fitzpatrick and the offense had a good first half, they moved the ball well, they scored twice. 

The issue is that Pittsburgh made halftime adjustments to stop what we were doing and we didn't make any adjustments of our own.  Combine that with two of our starting WR's out hurt, an OL that can't run block, an ineffective Forte, dropped passes, and lousy playcalling and it's a recipe for disaster in a tough road stadium.

SAR I

Fitz was that bad, even his completions were off target.  Fitz's lone TD pass was a perfectly thrown interception into the EZ that B.Marshall just went over the back of the defender and beasted the ball from him.  

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

 

Fitz was that bad, even his completions were off target.  Fitz's lone TD pass was a perfectly thrown interception into the EZ that B.Marshall just went over the back of the defender and beasted the ball from him.  

the td should have been a pick. if that had happened fitz would be completely raked here and in the media.  they have only 7 points in the 2nd half of games the last 3 games and that was only b/c fitz fumbled.

[Sperm Edwards]

36 minutes ago, August said:

I'm not looking at anything from a narrow lense. I'm looking at it from a standpoint of we are not a good team, and we're not making the playoffs, and we need to see what we have in the young guy once and for all. The starter is struggling and when that happens typically a QB switch is used to create a spark. The offense is stagnant right now. I'm not saying putting in Smith is going to solve our problems but it could accomplish several things. We see if he provides a spark, we get a chance to see how he plays with these weapons around him, and we get to a final verdict on him. Also it's not fair for the bar to be higher for Smith compared to what it is for Fitzpatrick and what it would be for Petty. Why exactly does he have to be "sustained lights out for a month"? Why can't he be evaluated normally? 

Bowles not making any changes has more to do with his stubbornness than some secret agenda against Smith. If Petty was the number 2, Fitzpatrick would still be the starter. 

 

The reason he has to have sustained success is that is what is necessary for the team to forgo the aggressive pursuit of other QBs in the spring. Merely treading water like Fitzpatrick II is not enough to sign him to a shiny new contract. Not when there are to actual unknowns under contract, that this GM brought in. 

And fair? If he'd not acted like a dickhead that cake schedule in 2015 would have been his. They handed him the starting job on a silver platter and he took a dump on it. Don't talk to me about fair. I have been plenty fair with regard to him. He wants the starting job? Well one way would be to not insinuate questioning the wisdom of those in power to make him the starter by tweeting his sad panda face after the starter's meltdown.

Bowles is a fool. I agree Bowles had and has an agenda in favor of Fitzpatrick, but if Bowles had a super agenda against Smith then Petty would have been the #2 behind Fitz from game 1. It would have been a total no-pressure move that would have been applauded by most Jets fans, right or wrong.

[joewilly12]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The reason he has to have sustained success is that is what is necessary for the team to forgo the aggressive pursuit of other QBs in the spring. Merely treading water like Fitzpatrick II is not enough to sign him to a shiny new contract. Not when there are to actual unknowns under contract, that this GM brought in. 

And fair? If he'd not acted like a dickhead that cake schedule in 2015 would have been his. They handed him the starting job on a silver platter and he took a dump on it. Don't talk to me about fair. I have been plenty fair with regard to him. He wants the starting job? Well one way would be to not question the wisdom of those in power to make him the starter by tweeting his sad panda face after the starter's meltdown.

Bowles is a fool. I agree Bowles had an agenda in favor of Fitzpatrick, but if Bowles had a super agenda against Smith then Petty would have been the #2 behind Fitz from game 1. It would have been a total no-pressure move that would have been applauded by most Jets fans, right or wrong.

3 INTs in a loss 6 INTs in a loss and our MORON head coach refuses to make a change thats all you need to know about Todd Bowles once Macc or Woody grown some balls and fire him you will never hear his name in the NFL again. 

Fitzpatrick is a bum 31 other NFL teams said NO the Jets signed him and named him the starter and the results are a 1-4 team that sucks. 

[August]

21 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The reason he has to have sustained success is that is what is necessary for the team to forgo the aggressive pursuit of other QBs in the spring. Merely treading water like Fitzpatrick II is not enough to sign him to a shiny new contract. Not when there are to actual unknowns under contract, that this GM brought in. 

And fair? If he'd not acted like a dickhead that cake schedule in 2015 would have been his. They handed him the starting job on a silver platter and he took a dump on it. Don't talk to me about fair. I have been plenty fair with regard to him. He wants the starting job? Well one way would be to not insinuate questioning the wisdom of those in power to make him the starter by tweeting his sad panda face after the starter's meltdown.

Bowles is a fool. I agree Bowles had and has an agenda in favor of Fitzpatrick, but if Bowles had a super agenda against Smith then Petty would have been the #2 behind Fitz from game 1. It would have been a total no-pressure move that would have been applauded by most Jets fans, right or wrong.

What exactly does "sustained success" means to you? I'm not saying he needs to "tread water" but if he plays well for a 5-6 (at the end of the year) game stretch without people acting as if he has to play like an elite QB or there is no point of him playing or returning is all I'm saying. Fitzpatrick the 12 year vet gets a low bar, but Geno the 4th year man is the one that has to play above and beyond is simply not fair. 

[Villain The Foe]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Funny he couldn't read that tin this offseason when he called any of us who felt investing in Fitz was wrong and would come back to bite us in the ass clueless Genoites or one of the other stupid names he needed to make his point. 

Remember his "Fitz is the best QB since Namath" thread?  Argued with all that he's really good. 

This off season the tin read Caviar.  Now he's not shocked by how shltty Fitz is playing, that he is what he is?  He expected nothing more.  

Reminds me of all those who attacked me on my "stop defending a Max 6 win qb". 

Now that we're not playing a highschool schedule look at the results. Fitz is averaging 11 points per game his last 3 games and leads the league in everything you don't want ur qb #1 in.

Now all of a sudden it's "written on the tin". Hilarious.

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Reminds me of all those who attacked me on my "stop defending a Max 6 win qb". 

Now that we're not playing a highschool schedule look at the results. Fitz is averaging 11 points per game his last 3 games and leads the league in everything you don't want ur qb #1 in.

Now all of a sudden it's "written on the tin". Hilarious.

Not at all surprised how things have turned out.

Whats more amusing is now there are other excuses. 

[phill1c]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

the only other option was to throw petty in there and piss off the veteran leaders of the team

I kind of agree with your premise, but, really, being worried about pissing off team leaders, who really aren't doing any significant leading and who haven't really won anything seems absurd. It's like being worried that someone will rent an airplane with a "fire somebody" banner on it. You can't coach a winning football team if the roles aren't clearly established and adhered to. Players play. Coaches coach, GM Manage. Players shouldn't be deciding who plays or be pissed off when who they think should play isn't playing.

Maybe this Jets team is way more dysfunctional than I previously thought...

[bgivs21]

Yes, but go to Petty not Geno

[joewilly12]

Just now, bgivs21 said:

Yes, but go to Petty not Geno

Anyone but Fitzpatrick 

[phill1c]

42 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

And fair? If he'd not acted like a dickhead that cake schedule in 2015 would have been his. They handed him the starting job on a silver platter and he took a dump on it.

Lots of validity in this statement.

That said, I think there should have been a competition in training camp because both of these guys have proven that when they are anointed without competition, they will sh!t the bed, as Fitzpatrick did in the last game of last season.

[Powpow]

2 hours ago, BallinPB said:

At this point I don't care who they throw out there just tell Bowles to stop saying that Fitzpatrick gives the team the best chance to win.    

True he should rephrase it saying playing Geno gives us no chance to win.

[Jet Nut]

37 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Reminds me of all those who attacked me on my "stop defending a Max 6 win qb". 

Now that we're not playing a highschool schedule look at the results. Fitz is averaging 11 points per game his last 3 games and leads the league in everything you don't want ur qb #1 in.

Now all of a sudden it's "written on the tin". Hilarious.

I said be careful what you wish for.  It's a tougher schedule and Fitz did nothing to change the trend of losing to winning teams last year.  I wondered how all the Fitz fans would react if he didn't change his history of losing to winning teams.

Its either make excuses for Fitz or themselves by spinning a story where they knew this could happen, they knew this was Fitz.  Nonsense, he was getting is to the playoffs.  10 wins are enough 85% of the time.  Scheduled harder but he'll be better, blah, blah, blah.

Oh and he's not Geno.  Or Glennon or Bradford or whoever.  All who have a better chance of being better than 1-4

[Sperm Edwards]

17 minutes ago, phill1c said:

Lots of validity in this statement.

That said, I think there should have been a competition in training camp because both of these guys have proven that when they are anointed without competition, they will sh!t the bed, as Fitzpatrick did in the last game of last season.

Except there is going to be no competition when Fitz is brought back under this offseason's circumstances. Maybe if he'd been re-signed in March then they could have focused the media spin to him having to make up for his meltdown in Buffalo. Instead they dragged it out to late July, and all spring long and into the early summer all the talk was only about getting him re-signed. Even then it's a stretch because Bowles anointed him the starter in the first week of January, just like he's doing this season.

[Maxman]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Fitzpatrick and the offense had a good first half, they moved the ball well, they scored twice. 

The issue is that Pittsburgh made halftime adjustments to stop what we were doing and we didn't make any adjustments of our own.  Combine that with two of our starting WR's out hurt, an OL that can't run block, an ineffective Forte, dropped passes, and lousy playcalling and it's a recipe for disaster in a tough road stadium.

SAR I

Taking Geno out of the mix here...I don't care if he ever takes another snap.

The issue is that Fitz isn't any good. They move the ball because people play bend but don't break. Then we got in the red zone and settle for long field goals. It happens all the time. At what point do we blame the QB?

He had a nice season last year but the team didn't get it done when it counted. Time to move on.

You can't fire the coach now. You can change the QB.

[Maxman]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

So you want him to lie?

SAR I

No we want him to be a good coach, which right now he hasn't been.

If Fitz gave the jets the best chance to win and the margin was so wide, then this game of chicken they played all offseason was stupid. Instead they caved and Fitz has a 64.7% QBR with 5 TDs and 10 INTs. Really should be 4 and 11 but Marshall stole a TD on Sunday.

He is reckless with the ball, he has several fumbles as well this year.

Ryan Fitzpatrick does not give the Jets the best chance to win. They might want to wait until Petty is ready and that is fine. But what he is saying isn't true and he knows it.

[Maxman]

2 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

the td should have been a pick. if that had happened fitz would be completely raked here and in the media.  they have only 7 points in the 2nd half of games the last 3 games and that was only b/c fitz fumbled.

This is so true. A 50 yard fumble. They should put that play in the playbook, it was nice.

[SAR I]

7 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Taking Geno out of the mix here...I don't care if he ever takes another snap.

The issue is that Fitz isn't any good. They move the ball because people play bend but don't break. Then we got in the red zone and settle for long field goals. It happens all the time. At what point do we blame the QB?

He had a nice season last year but the team didn't get it done when it counted. Time to move on.

You can't fire the coach now. You can change the QB.

We are free to blame the QB all we want, but if the QB is only capable of throwing for 250 yards and 2 TD's 1 INT do we blame him because he isn't putting up 500 yards?  Is the 1988 Ford Tempo to be blamed for its inability to win NASCAR races, or the driver who thought this car was a good purchase?

If you want to jump start this lazy sack of crap football team by cutting someone and sending a message, there is only one person that might produce the effect you are looking for-  the head coach.

For me, I had the Jets at 7-9 after a 1-5 start so I'm not losing my sh*t like so many here today.  This was completely expected, completely predictable.  The level of competition matters in the NFL.  All these posters all summer long telling us "teams change every year, don't look at the schedule so closely, blah blah blah".  Yup.

SAR I

[Maxman]

36 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Except there is going to be no competition when Fitz is brought back under this offseason's circumstances. Maybe if he'd been re-signed in March then they could have focused the media spin to him having to make up for his meltdown in Buffalo. Instead they dragged it out to late July, and all spring long and into the early summer all the talk was only about getting him re-signed. Even then it's a stretch because Bowles anointed him the starter in the first week of January, just like he's doing this season.

Very true. The organization needs more accountability.

Bowles should have said we want Fitz back, he did good things this year that we would like to build on. But jobs are not guaranteed on this team so it is something we will sort out when we get everyone under contract.

[joewilly12]

Bowles is a well ya know its alright type of guy......................

[Augustiniak]

6 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Taking Geno out of the mix here...I don't care if he ever takes another snap.

The issue is that Fitz isn't any good. They move the ball because people play bend but don't break. Then we got in the red zone and settle for long field goals. It happens all the time. At what point do we blame the QB?

He had a nice season last year but the team didn't get it done when it counted. Time to move on.

You can't fire the coach now. You can change the QB.

the problem is, they went into the season with a backup qb they never intended to play.  so now they're forced to keep saying the starter is better than the backup even though the starter sucks.  they backed themselves into a corner with fitz and geno.  it's a perfect storm now, with all these good teams they're playing.  

[Maxman]

Our QB has the lowest QBR in the league. But he gives us the best chance to win. Yeah. No.
 

I would have more respect for them if they just cut Geno. This season is about finding a QB end of story. Geno, even if he had the talent, has immaturity issues. So let's just see what Petty and Hack can do. Screw it.

[whodeawhodat]

2 minutes ago, Maxman said:

No we want him to be a good coach, which right now he hasn't been.

If Fitz gave the jets the best chance to win and the margin was so wide, then this game of chicken they played all offseason was stupid. Instead they caved and Fitz has a 64.7% QBR with 5 TDs and 10 INTs. Really should be 4 and 11 but Marshall stole a TD on Sunday.

He is reckless with the ball, he has several fumbles as well this year.

Ryan Fitzpatrick does not give the Jets the best chance to win. They might want to wait until Petty is ready and that is fine. But what he is saying isn't true and he knows it.

all of our opponents QBs have had OVER 105 QBR playing our defense....  Not saying that Fitz is anything short of garbage right now but our defense has no excuse, really.  as you said our O is at least sustaining drives so our defense should be fresh.

 

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

the problem is, they went into the season with a backup qb they never intended to play.  so now they're forced to keep saying the starter is better than the backup even though the starter sucks.  they backed themselves into a corner with fitz and geno.  it's a perfect storm now, with all these good teams they're playing.  

Why did the MORONS keep 4 QB's they wasted a valuable roster spot

Poor management and coaching all need to go

[Maxman]

5 minutes ago, SAR I said:

We are free to blame the QB all we want, but if the QB is only capable of throwing for 250 yards and 2 TD's 1 INT do we blame him because he isn't putting up 500 yards?  Is the 1988 Ford Tempo to be blamed for its inability to win NASCAR races, or the driver who thought this car was a good purchase?

If you want to jump start this lazy sack of crap football team by cutting someone and sending a message, there is only one person that might produce the effect you are looking for-  the head coach.

For me, I had the Jets at 7-9 after a 1-5 start so I'm not losing my sh*t like so many here today.  This was completely expected, completely predictable.  The level of competition matters in the NFL.  All these posters all summer long telling us "teams change every year, don't look at the schedule so closely, blah blah blah".  Yup.

SAR I

So what is the point of playing Fitzpatrick if you think he will lead them to 7 and 9? Makes no sense.

If he is doing all he is capable of, he isn't capable of enough. Time to move on like the thread title says.

[CrazyCarl40]

4 minutes ago, Maxman said:

No we want him to be a good coach, which right now he hasn't been.

If Fitz gave the jets the best chance to win and the margin was so wide, then this game of chicken they played all offseason was stupid. Instead they caved and Fitz has a 64.7% QBR with 5 TDs and 10 INTs. Really should be 4 and 11 but Marshall stole a TD on Sunday.

He is reckless with the ball, he has several fumbles as well this year.

Ryan Fitzpatrick does not give the Jets the best chance to win. They might want to wait until Petty is ready and that is fine. But what he is saying isn't true and he knows it.

Geno Smith has turned the ball over 43 times in 31 games. And you want to turn the quarterback position over to him with no semblance of a run game and a below average offensive line. Why? It's literally the definition of insanity.