Insightful Comment By Polian

[KRL]

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/67235/is-ex-jets-star-darrelle-revis-a-first-ballot-hall-of-famer-uh-not-so-fast

6. Money is the root of problems: Interesting comment the other day from ESPN analyst Bill Polian, who said the Jets had "bad financial chemistry" last season. He didn't cite any specific examples, except to say it's not good for locker-room morale when high-salaried players are outplayed by players who make less money. The most glaring example was Revis, whose shockingly poor season caused some resentment among teammates.

 

Polian is spot on think about all of the big money players who did nothing last year:

Fitzpatrick
Marshall
Decker (because of injury)
Mangold (because of injury)
Wilkerson
Revis
 

[Greensleeves]

I highly doubt people were upset Revis was paid more than they were. First ballot Hall of Famer that is well respected in the locker room. Same goes for Mangold and Decker - injuries happen. I think the only person you can say that about from that list would be Fitz. The other guys earned their pay from years of success.

[joewilly12]

4 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

I highly doubt people were upset Revis was paid more than they were. First ballot Hall of Famer that is well respected in the locker room. Same goes for Mangold and Decker - injuries happen. I think the only person you can say that about from that list would be Fitz. The other guys earned their pay from years of success.

Agree Ryan Fitzpatrick was the root of all evil he tore this team apart on and off the field many of the players resented the fact that he sucked so bad but remained the starting QB.

[LIJetsFan]

2 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

I highly doubt people were upset Revis was paid more than they were. First ballot Hall of Famer that is well respected in the locker room. Same goes for Mangold and Decker - injuries happen. I think the only person you can say that about from that list would be Fitz. The other guys earned their pay from years of success.

I gotta disagree here.  Just like we fans, these guys watched the highly paid Revis dog it out there the entire season.  That has got to burn.     

[RoadFan]

12 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

I highly doubt people were upset Revis was paid more than they were. First ballot Hall of Famer that is well respected in the locker room. Same goes for Mangold and Decker - injuries happen. I think the only person you can say that about from that list would be Fitz. The other guys earned their pay from years of success.

Nobody respects a glaring lack of effort.  I am sure there were plenty of players mumbling under their breath when they watched film on Mondays and saw Revis barely going through the motions.  Then have it rewinded, and played back.

[Kleckineau]

Fat felonious Revis.

Beatin up joe blows, stealin Jet money.

[RoadFan]

This concept is yet another argument against fraud agency.  Don't overpay for mediocre players.

[Larz]

it was a toxic mess.  it all started in the KC game with the fitz 6, I think a lot of veterans just gave up, with revis the main culprit

then you add the head coach being a "grown men don't need to be told what to do" type of guy with no resume or chops to bring these guys in line

what was so jetsy was the end of the season after being mathematically eliminated they still tried to win with these dogs instead of letting the kids play

 

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, Larz said:

it was a toxic mess.  it all started in the KC game with the fitz 6, I think a lot of veterans just gave up, with revis the main culprit

then you add the head coach being a "grown men don't need to be told what to do" type of guy with no resume or chops to bring these guys in line

what was so jetsy was the end of the season after being mathematically eliminated they still tried to win with these dogs instead of letting the kids play

 

The mess that was created by Mike Maccagnan and coached by Todd Bowles,hard pressed to see different results in 2017 when both are still in place neither knows what the hell they are doing. 

[Villain The Foe]

6 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

I gotta disagree here.  Just like we fans, these guys watched the highly paid Revis dog it out there the entire season.  That has got to burn.     

And I have to disagree with you. I doubt Revis pay was a problem given that other players weren't busy influencing management to pay him. Fitz however had guys doing so, so not only did it not look great when Fitz ended up being Fitz again, but it must have made Marshall, Decker and Mangold look extra terrible when they also had poor seasons. 

Perfect example, I doubt Geno appreciated the constant fallacious comments from guys like Marshall especially after Geno gave Marshall a place to stay when he first arrived. Same for Decker. 

I didn't see players continuously make public their feelings regarding Revis and why he should play/be paid. But by default the other QB's on the team had to feel some sort of way about that, and the rest of the team had to as well when they began losing and you have Marshall saying that he'd rather go down in the ship with Fitz. 

That was simply ridiculous. 

[joewilly12]

Just now, Villain The Foe said:

And I have to disagree with you. I doubt Revis pay was a problem given that other players weren't busy influencing management to pay him. Fitz however had guys doing so, so not only did it not look great when Fitz ended up being Fitz again, but it must have made Marshall, Decker and Mangold look extra terrible when they also had poor seasons. 

Perfect example, I doubt Geno appreciated the constant fallacious comments from guys like Marshall especially after Geno gave Marshall a place to stay when he first arrived. Same for Decker. 

I didn't see players continuously make public their feelings regarding Revis and why he should play/be paid. But by default the other QB's on the team had to feel some sort of way about that, and the rest of the team had to as well when they began losing and you have Marshall saying that he'd rather go down in the ship with Fitz. 

That was simply ridiculous. 

Geno the bad guy gave Marshall and Decker a place to stay? First time I'm hearing this and those lowlife scabs supported Ryan Fitzpatrick which blew up in their faces. 

[T0mShane]

That Decker-Fitzpatrick-Mangold-Marshall group and the Mo-Sheldon-Revis group tore the locker room in half, it would seem. Really falls on Mac and Bowles, though, because it was so predictable. Mac getting tooled by Fitzpatrick all summer--culminating in the Decker and Marshall mini-protest--was dumb, but Bowles letting Mo and Sheldon walk all over him after letting Cro (two years ago), and Revis (this year) dog it was terminal.

[Bleedin Green]

1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

And I have to disagree with you. I doubt Revis pay was a problem given that other players weren't busy influencing management to pay him. Fitz however had guys doing so, so not only did it not look great when Fitz ended up being Fitz again, but it must have made Marshall, Decker and Mangold look extra terrible when they also had poor seasons. 

Perfect example, I doubt Geno appreciated the constant fallacious comments from guys like Marshall especially after Geno gave Marshall a place to stay when he first arrived. Same for Decker. 

I didn't see players continuously make public their feelings regarding Revis and why he should play/be paid. But by default the other QB's on the team had to feel some sort of way about that, and the rest of the team had to as well when they began losing and you have Marshall saying that he'd rather go down in the ship with Fitz. 

That was simply ridiculous. 

Despite your desperate attempt to have this fit to your predetermined agenda, the points you're bringing up completely contradict the conclusion you're trying to draw from it.  Your suggestion is players were more bitter about the signing that they supported, for a guy who ultimately tried but sucked, than they were about a signing they did not support, for a guy who was paid more than anyone and gave absolutely no effort whatsoever?  That makes no sense at all.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there were guys who were not happy with the Fitz situation once it all fell apart, and of course Geno wasn't ever happy with it, but in his case it had nothing to do with money.  The logic you're trying to use here is essentially saying the opposite of what you clearly really want it to say.

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

That Decker-Fitzpatrick-Mangold-Marshall group and the Mo-Sheldon-Revis group toremthe locker room in half, it would seem. Really falls on Mac and Bowles, though, because it was so predictable. Mac getting fooled by Fitzpatrick all summer--culminating in the Decker and Marshall mini-protest was dumb, but Bowles letting Mo and Sheldon walk all over him after letting Cro (two years ago), and Revis this year, dog it was terminal.

Mike Maccagnan created it Todd Bowles coached it both remain in place I don't see any change in 2017 from either one. 

Names and faces change but leadership remains the same. 

[T0mShane]

RE: Revis--Revis has always been reactionary when there was bullsh*t going on within the team. He tuned out when Plaxico and Santonio were torching the locker room, then tuned out altogether in Tampa, but was dominant again for New England. It wouldn't surprise me if Revis went to the Steelers and look a lot better than he did here.

[JetFaninMI]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

That Decker-Fitzpatrick-Mangold-Marshall group and the Mo-Sheldon-Revis group tore the locker room in half, it would seem. Really falls on Mac and Bowles, though, because it was so predictable. Mac getting tooled by Fitzpatrick all summer--culminating in the Decker and Marshall mini-protest--was dumb, but Bowles letting Mo and Sheldon walk all over him after letting Cro (two years ago), and Revis (this year) dog it was terminal.

Bowles is a little more guilty in this than Mac. He is the head coach and should have nipped that sh*t in the bud. He lost the team after letting it fester like it did. Mac is guilty for his part too. I think both maybe gone after this season or next.

[JohnnyLV]

Any chance we had was destroyed when we signed Fitzloser and Bowles stubbornly stuck with him

[Villain The Foe]

2 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

Despite your desperate attempt to have this fit to your predetermined agenda, the points you're bringing up completely contradict the conclusion you're trying to draw from it.  Your suggestion is players were more bitter about the signing that they supported, for a guy who ultimately tried but sucked, than they were about a signing they did not support, for a guy who was paid more than anyone and gave absolutely no effort whatsoever?  That makes no sense at all.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there were guys who were not happy with the Fitz situation once it all fell apart, and of course Geno wasn't ever happy with it, but in his case it had nothing to do with money.  The logic you're trying to use here is essentially saying the opposite of what you clearly really want it to say.

Highly doubt my attempt came from a place of desperation. However, your attempt now comes from a place called revisionist history. I'll break it down for you...starting with your position that I contradicted myself. 

Could Revis performance on the field come across to other players as an issue? Sure, he played like sh*t. I remember during the offseason when Marshall and Revis got into it after Marshall torched Revis on the field and threw "DeAndre Hopkins" in his face. 

 

Here's the difference. Revis didnt hold the team for ransom waiting on a contract in an effort to extract as much money from the team as possible along with other players not attending minicamp as a way to protect in favor of Revis. You know who did that? Fitz, Marshall and Decker. When Revis signed participated in Voluntary workouts, Decker and Marshall conveniently missed them in an effort to protest Fitz not being signed to what he wanted. I dont recall Revis missing anything voluntary or mandatory. Meanwhile we have players missing out on an opportunity to gel with players who in fact made it to mini camp. 

 

Quote

Your suggestion is players were more bitter about the signing that they supported

I dont recall "the players" supporting the signing. Not saying that the players had a problem if he did resign, but when you say "the players", what you reallly mean is Brandon Marshall, Eric Decker and Nick Mangold because those were the only guys who made their position pretty vocal....which is the problem here.  I only recall Marshall, Decker and Mangold publicly and shamelessly supporting the signing. I dont recall "the players" wearing their Fitzmagic shirts with pride...I remember Marshall and Decker doing that. I dont recall "the players" taking a ton of pictures and videos with Fitz at a Rangers game during the offseason just so they can run and put it on instagram/twitter in an effort to show their support of bring Fitz back...I recall Mangold and Decker doing so. I dont recall "the players" flying out to Chicago to meet with Fitz and his family hours before he was resigned by the Jets...I recall Brandon Marshall doing that. I dont recall "the players" not showing up for voluntary minicamp...I recall Brandon Marshall and Eric Decker not showing up. When Fitz was finally resigned I dont recall "the players" stopping everything just so they can get in a group selfie pick and post it online...I recall Brandon, Mangold and Decker doing so. I dont recall "The players" going on the show "Inside the NFL" during a late November broadcast when the Jets at the time are 3-7, Fitz having a 56% comp rate, the lowest QBR in the league, the most turnovers in the league and saying that "Ryan Fitzpatrick deserved more money since Cousins got paid"...I recall Brandon Marshall doing that though. I dont recall "The players" saying that after Fitz was benched 3 prior times that he should once again start a week 17 game over Hackenberg...I recall Brandon Marshall getting in front of a camera and saying that though. I dont recall "The players" saying that they're going down in the ship with Ryan Fitzpatrick...I recall Marshall saying this though. I dont recall "the players" going on the Rich Eisen show in an effort to persuade the front office into resigning Fitz. I recall Marshall going on the Rich Eisen show doing that. I dont recall "The players" making it very clear in an interview that they all want Fitz resigned...I recall Eric Decker holding an interview and doing that. Wouldnt you think "The players" would have a problem seeing this as the season unraveled? 

So who are all these "players" you're referring to because the only guys that are doing this are the same 3 names that keep popping up which is Mandold, Decker and Marshall. And keep in mind. These are 3 skillset position guys. You have the #1 and #2 WR's and the Center doing this. These are essentially the most important positions on offense outside of the QB position so it does hold weight. Ironically, these are also the 3 position that benefit most from the QB as well...so no wonder why it's "these three" doing it. After Fitz was signed the lockerroom became cancerous, and it didnt sound like it was because of Darrelle Revis "play/big contract". It seemed like it was because of some of the BIG MOUTH vocal guys of the group. Here's a direct quote from Quincy Enunwa: "Marshall on Monday said he regretted the timing of some of his loud, impassioned messages to teammates. The messages didn't always go over well in the room. Enunwa paused for a few seconds Monday when considering how to answer a question about Marshall's vocal leadership approach this season. For me, with Brandon, I always make sure that I hear the message rather than the delivery of the message," Enunwa said. "It's not easy for everybody. When I sit down and I talk to him and I listen to what he's saying, I know why he does what he does, and he says what he says." 

The back and forth that happened in the lockerroom with Sheldon Richardson didnt happen with Revis because of his bad play and huge contract, it was with Brandon Marshall. You didnt see reports that Darrelle Revis lost "the players" after a halftime rant that caused Sheldon Richardson to say "Revis should be embarrassed"...it was Brandon Marshall. 

 

So to conclude, if you want to talk about "predetermined agenda's" how about you start by identifying that the actions of 3 misguided players shouldnt constitute "the players" as a whole. And again, im not saying that no other player supported Fitz coming back, but they sure as hell wasnt making it public every day, and they sure as hell wasnt talking about how Fitz was underpaid while the Jets sat with a 3-7 record with Fitz throwing 6 INT's in football games. 

What im suggesting is that "The players" had a problem with a guy who held out all offseason and got PAID while playing terribly and PUBLICALLY pointed the finger at the coaches and front office when they decided to bench him, Decker not being around to help though HE'S getting paid, Mangold not being around but HE'S getting paid and Marshall being around but is dropping everything thrown to him while he's on TV saying that Fitz should get "Cousins money"...all while HE'S getting paid. Lets be serious here, the ONLY PLAYER on the Jets that would actually have a right to get mad at anyone given the amount of money they got paid would be Leonard Williams. This is a 2nd year guy and he was the only probowler on the team. Lets be serious, who outside of him actually had a great season? The entire team played like sh*t. Sure you have guys like Bilal Powell, but then again Powell isnt "The players"...he's "a player". 

Much of the problems fans have with Revis is his past business dealings with the Jets in the past...but he also produced in the past. Bottomline when Revis came back he participated. He only played well for half a season (2015)...but to make it seem like Revis payday had as much to do with the circus that surrounded Decker/Marshall/Mangold/Fitz is just ridiculous. 

[Il Mostro]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

RE: Revis--Revis has always been reactionary when there was bullsh*t going on within the team. He tuned out when Plaxico and Santonio were torching the locker room, then tuned out altogether in Tampa, but was dominant again for New England. It wouldn't surprise me if Revis went to the Steelers and look a lot better than he did here.

 

I think your present a very plausible scenario, but is he giving them a home town discount? 

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, Il Mostro said:

 

I think your present a very plausible scenario, but is he giving them a home town discount? 

I don't think he'll have a choice right now.

[Il Mostro]

Just now, T0mShane said:

I don't think he'll have a choice right now.

It's going to be interesting since he and uncle Sean always go for max $$$.  But I can see him easily rolling over if he thinks this will be the move that really secures his legacy.  Pittsburgh is the perfect place for him.

[Barkus]

4 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Agree Ryan Fitzpatrick was the root of all evil he tore this team apart on and off the field many of the players resented the fact that he sucked so bad but remained the starting QB.

Fitz was a major mistake. Geno took all reps during workouts then day before training camp starts they told him to take a seat. It was a raw deal. Then Toilet keeping fitzgarbage in to throw 6 picks in a game ended the season.

[Bleedin Green]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Highly doubt my attempt came from a place of desperation.

Yet the next 8 paragraphs you wrote disproved any supposed "doubts".  You had a predetermined decision before this topic even came up, ranting about it as long as you want doesn't magically change anything.  But sure, keep telling yourself everyone was ok with the team's highest paid player being the biggest quitter, just so you can blame everything on the one person you so desperately want to.  As usual, you read what you wanted to, and nothing more.

[Villain The Foe]

3 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Yet the next 8 paragraphs you wrote disproved any supposed "doubts".  You had a predetermined decision before this topic even came up, ranting about it as long as you want doesn't magically change anything.  But sure, keep telling yourself everyone was ok with the team's highest paid player being the biggest quitter, just so you can blame everything on the one person you so desperately want to.  As usual, you read what you wanted to, and nothing more.

I'll take this as you saying "good point villain".

[Jetdawgg]

Mac killed last season as he put that tumultuous locker room together. Bowles buried it with his unyielding positions and Futz threw the dirt on the casket along with Decker (whom should be moved now), Mangold and BM. Both of whom are gone.

Time to move forward from here

[joewilly12]

7 minutes ago, Jetdawgg said:

Mac killed last season as he put that tumultuous locker room together. Bowles buried it with his unyielding positions and Futz threw the dirt on the casket along with Decker (whom should be moved now), Mangold and BM. Both of whom are gone.

Time to move forward from here

Moving forward would be firing Bowles for now we are just spinning our wheels. 

[Jetdawgg]

5 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Moving forward would be firing Bowles for now we are just spinning our wheels. 

If Macc does not have a starting QB before OTA's he also needs to hit the road. He also is stubborn regarding his drafting. A QB every year can be a waste. We have 2 on the roster Neo. Adding a third with the number 6 pick is certainly not a reasonable choice right now. 

Missing out on the one who becomes good is an indictment regarding his draft selections

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Jetdawgg said:

If Macc does not have a starting QB before OTA's he also needs to hit the road. He also is stubborn regarding his drafting. A QB every year can be a waste. We have 2 on the roster Neo. Adding a third with the number 6 pick is certainly not a reasonable choice right now. 

Missing out on the one who becomes good is an indictment regarding his draft selections

Agree I'm not a fan of Mike Maccagnan. 

[Charlie Brown]

7 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Any chance we had was destroyed when we signed Fitzloser and Bowles stubbornly stuck with him

You are sooo right...  Think how Fitz tore apart the locker room?

He didn't come to off season workouts and didn't even attempt to practice on his own even leaking in the press that he might retire rather than accept the insulting Jets 10 Million plus offer!!

Then Geno works his butt off during the off season with the team and Fitz is simply handed the job when he signs his contract, despite Geno appearing to look better.

Here is where Bowles acted like he was totally incompetent (and I wanted him retained for this year).  Recall when Fitz literally threw 6 INTs in game, Bowles comes out after the game and says that there was no way Geno was coming into the game.  NO WAY!! (and I don't like Geno)

So Geno who lost his starters gig not for on the field incompetence but a fight was not good enough to relieve Fitz who was the WORST starting QB in the entire NFL.  That is when the locker room was lost, right there.  Why have Geno on the team if he can't relieve a QB who is throwing 6 INTS in a GAME??????

And the three Amigos of Marshall, Mangold and Decker who supported Fitz and watched as season went to hell are secondarily responsible... 

[rangerous]

2 hours ago, Barkus said:

Fitz was a major mistake. Geno took all reps during workouts then day before training camp starts they told him to take a seat. It was a raw deal. Then Toilet keeping fitzgarbage in to throw 6 picks in a game ended the season.

in hindsight, absolutely right.  geno had a full five months to win the team back while fitz was holding out.  when fitz ame back, there was, imho, a large group of players who were plenty upset because geno was demoted.  i believe sheldon was in the middle along with pryor and geno.  one would think they are all professionals and understand the business but that isn't always true.

it all water under the bridge at this point and let's hope the troublemakers will be gone.

[Tinstar]

29 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

You are sooo right...  Think how Fitz tore apart the locker room?

He didn't come to off season workouts and didn't even attempt to practice on his own even leaking in the press that he might retire rather than accept the insulting Jets 10 Million plus offer!!

Then Geno works his butt off during the off season with the team and Fitz is simply handed the job when he signs his contract, despite Geno appearing to look better.

Here is where Bowles acted like he was totally incompetent (and I wanted him retained for this year).  Recall when Fitz literally threw 6 INTs in game, Bowles comes out after the game and says that there was no way Geno was coming into the game.  NO WAY!! (and I don't like Geno)

So Geno who lost his starters gig not for on the field incompetence but a fight was not good enough to relieve Fitz who was the WORST starting QB in the entire NFL.  That is when the locker room was lost, right there.  Why have Geno on the team if can't relieve a QB who is throwing 6 INTS in a GAME??????

And the three Amigos of Marshall, Mangold and Decker who supported Fitz and watched as season went to hell are secondarily responsible... 

I have a different interpretation. In the 1st year as HC, the players not knowing what to expect are on their best behavior and Todd  Bowles shows them who he is by his decision following the Geno/IK fiasco . In his second yr, the players mistakenly thinking they have a soft spoken coach, act the fool and embarrass their HC  . His response is what we're in the process of witnessing  with the mass exodus of Veteran players who were counted on to police the locker room but instead divided it  .  Going forward it will be understood that nobody is untouchable . we shall see what we see .

[Maxman]

7 hours ago, KRL said:

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/67235/is-ex-jets-star-darrelle-revis-a-first-ballot-hall-of-famer-uh-not-so-fast

6. Money is the root of problems: Interesting comment the other day from ESPN analyst Bill Polian, who said the Jets had "bad financial chemistry" last season. He didn't cite any specific examples, except to say it's not good for locker-room morale when high-salaried players are outplayed by players who make less money. The most glaring example was Revis, whose shockingly poor season caused some resentment among teammates.

 

Polian is spot on think about all of the big money players who did nothing last year:

Fitzpatrick
Marshall
Decker (because of injury)
Mangold (because of injury)
Wilkerson
Revis
 

I think people would be more upset with Fitzpatrick. Revis was terrible but he earned a little more rope.

[CrazyCarl40]

2 minutes ago, Maxman said:

I think people would be more upset with Fitzpatrick. Revis was terrible but he earned a little more rope.

Yeah but at least Fitz tried to make tackles after his interceptions. Revis barely ever tackled. 

[Maxman]

2 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Yeah but at least Fitz tried to make tackles after his interceptions. Revis barely ever tackled. 

In fairness Revis wasn't really close enough to anybody last year to tackle them. He was an island, for all the wrong reasons.

[August]

All we can hope for is that Mac and Bowles learned their lesson from last season.