What are the reasons to not draft Watson?

[Komba]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

So the guy to draft is the one trying to overcome the greatest odds of them all? 

Forget odds... Doesn't mean anything.  Evaluating talent is just about watching and projecting how their game will translate to the next level.  Trubisky will translate perfectly. Think he's going to be top 10 and I would do everything it takes to get him. I don't think we will get him, so whatever team that ends up with him is going to get a damn good player. And at that position, it's absolute gold.

Watson is the only other guy I see with any chance of these Qb's to be good. And even him I see more likely top 20 if things go well.  

[JustInFudge]

5 minutes ago, Komba said:

Forget odds... Doesn't mean anything.  Evaluating talent is just about watching and projecting how their game will translate to the next level.  Trubisky will translate perfectly. Think he's going to be top 10 and I would do everything it takes to get him. I don't think we will get him, so whatever team that ends up with him is going to get a damn good player. And at that position, it's absolute gold.

Watson is the only other guy I see with any chance of these Qb's to be good. And even him I see more likely top 20 if things go well.  

So the fact that no underclassman with 1 year of starting experience has ever been successful in the NFL doesnt bother you? 

[Komba]

Just now, JiF said:

So the fact that no underclassman with 1 year of starting experience has ever been successful in the NFL doesnt bother you? 

No, because I'm confident in my ability to identify a QB in that many games.  So are other NFL talent evaluators and that is the reason he's going to go so high in this draft.  The fact that he didn't start the year prior is the only reason we even have a prayer at getting him.  Because some dopes want it to hit them over the head with it being so obvious.  The point is that it's never obvious outside of Luck. And even he has huge flaws.

[Dcat]

Just now, Komba said:

The point is that it's never obvious outside of Luck. And even he has huge flaws.

like playing injured for 2 consecutive years...

[Komba]

1 minute ago, Dcat said:

like playing injured for 2 consecutive years...

Actually that is an aspect of him that is flawed.  He's so hard headed in that he thinks he's being tough.  It's the same issue with him taking so many hits.  The best guys like Brady and Peyton were so great because they didn't take big hits.  And it didn't even matter what garbage they had in front of them with the offensive line. 

They always knew pre-snap where they were going with the ball, and had enough awareness of all 11 on defense to know when they had time and when they didn't have time.

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, Komba said:

No, because I'm confident in my ability to identify a QB in that many games.  So are other NFL talent evaluators and that is the reason he's going to go so high in this draft.  The fact that he didn't start the year prior is the only reason we even have a prayer at getting him.  Because some dopes want it to hit them over the head with it being so obvious.  The point is that it's never obvious outside of Luck. And even he has huge flaws.

So then why has one never succeeded in the NFL? 

[Komba]

6 minutes ago, JiF said:

So then why has one never succeeded in the NFL? 

Cam?  Tannehill is pretty good.  

And to be honest, I really don't care about those comparisons.  People made the same mistake saying that Russell Wilson wouldn't succeed because no modern era QB made it work being that short. Unfortunately I wrote him off for that reason too and I'll never do it again. For any reason. Take every guy on their own merit.  Comparisons are dumb when it comes to these prospects because no one player is exactly like another anyway.

[JustInFudge]

7 minutes ago, Komba said:

Cam?  Tannehill is pretty good.  

And to be honest, I really don't care about those comparisons.  People made the same mistake saying that Russell Wilson wouldn't succeed because no modern era QB made it work being that short. Unfortunately I wrote him off for that reason too and I'll never do it again. For any reason. Take every guy on their own merit.  Comparisons are dumb when it comes to these prospects because no one player is exactly like another anyway.

Cam really isnt good at all.  Tannehill is terrible. And Cam had 2 years, 1 of them was in JuCo where he led them to a National Championship. 

Comparisons are dumb but this isnt a comparison.  This is a historical fact and because of it, there has to be some type of relevant reason why.  Probably a maturity thing but facts are facts.  Why try to defy odds?  He's not that special at all. 

[Komba]

Just now, JiF said:

Cam really isnt good at all.  Tannehill is terrible. And Cam had 2 years, 1 of them was in JuCo where he led them to a National Championship. 

Comparisons are dumb but this isnt a comparison.  This is a historical fact and because of it, there has to be some type of relevant reason why.  Probably a maturity thing but facts are facts.  Why try to defy odds?  He's not that special at all. 

Juco...

And you saying Cam isn't good at all removes a lot of credibility.  

Look we'll agree to disagree.  I think he's going to be top 10 and it's devastating to watch guys like that end up on other teams.  We'll see who's right.  Trubisky is going to succeed with whatever team he's on so I won't even hide behind that possibility.  If he goes to Cleveland, they'll be winning double digit games in his 2nd year.

[Jet_Engine1]

5 hours ago, JiF said:

Yep.  He threw a ton of boneheaded INT's, some that are much worse than what we've seen from Watson.  But similar to Watson, the kid had ice in his veins, was a leader, a winner and would always put his team on his back and lead them to victory.

 

 

And a canon for an arm. And 6'4 235lb. Don't forget those things.

[JustInFudge]

Just now, Komba said:

Juco...

And you saying Cam isn't good at all removes a lot of credibility.  

Look we'll agree to disagree.  I think he's going to be top 10 and it's devastating to watch guys like that end up on other teams.  We'll see who's right.  Trubisky is going to succeed with whatever team he's on so I won't even hide behind that possibility.  If he goes to Cleveland, they'll be winning double digit games in his 2nd year.

Yeah JuCo.  Is that not college?  Where did Joe Flacco and Carson Wentz play?

Lose credibility?  Why?  Outside of 1 good year, Cam is pretty terrible.  He's one of the least effective QB's at throwing the Football in the league.  He's just got an extra dynamic that the league has never seen out of a QB before.  If you take that away from him, he's a bottom dweller statically in every single passing category. 

I'm not arguing that Trubisky isnt going top 10. He most likely will. Some team is stupid enough to do it.  I'm just telling you it's stupid and he's going to fail like every other QB that has attempted to do what he's about to try to do. 

[bealeb319]

Honestly the only reason I can think for folks not to want us to draft Watson is that they hope we snag one of the blue chip qbs next season. Watson probably won't have a hall of fame type of career but he could defiantly develop into a serviceable qb in the NFL is he worth a number 6 overall pick? who the hell really knows but he would be fun to watch regardless of who drafts him.

[shawn306]

On 4/17/2017 at 10:16 PM, joewilly12 said:

Who at 6 instantly improves this team?  We need a QB nothing else matters. 

Did you see our secondary last year, or Clady try and replace Brick ?

I honestly hope they trade down and pick up extra picks. Basically other than DL anyone they draft is gonna be better than what they have right now.

[Komba]

3 minutes ago, shawn306 said:

Did you see our secondary last year, or Clady try and replace Brick ?

I honestly hope they trade down and pick up extra picks. Basically other than DL anyone they draft is gonna be better than what they have right now.

All of that stuff really doesn't matter much when you have a QB.  It's a bonus, but that's it.  Just where the game is at in the modern era.

[Komba]

19 minutes ago, JiF said:

Yeah JuCo.  Is that not college?  Where did Joe Flacco and Carson Wentz play?

Lose credibility?  Why?  Outside of 1 good year, Cam is pretty terrible.  He's one of the least effective QB's at throwing the Football in the league.  He's just got an extra dynamic that the league has never seen out of a QB before.  If you take that away from him, he's a bottom dweller statically in every single passing category. 

I'm not arguing that Trubisky isnt going top 10. He most likely will. Some team is stupid enough to do it.  I'm just telling you it's stupid and he's going to fail like every other QB that has attempted to do what he's about to try to do. 

Again, if you think that Cam is awful then we have nothing to discuss.  Not a super bowl winner is a reasonable discussion, but awful is just the wrong definition.  That said about Cam, I do think he has the potential for a monster drop off.  That surgery he had was serious and could really change things.

And I don't mean Trubisky will be taken in the top 10.  I know he will.  I mean he'll be a top 10 NFL QB.  

Either way, the future will prove it out.  I think I'm right and what I'm saying goes against the group think so I guess the odds are against me.  But I'm pretty sure I'll be proven right outside of injury.

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, Komba said:

Again, if you think that Cam is awful then we have nothing to discuss.  Not a super bowl winner is a reasonable discussion, but awful is just the wrong definition.  That said about Cam, I do think he has the potential for a monster drop off.  That surgery he had was serious and could really change things.

And I don't mean Trubisky will be taken in the top 10.  I know he will.  I mean he'll be a top 10 NFL QB.  

Either way, the future will prove it out.  I think I'm right and what I'm saying goes against the group think so I guess the odds are against me.  But I'm pretty sure I'll be proven right outside of injury.

Cam is not a good passer.  This isnt a debate.  That said, he's not in this conversation.  He had 2 years of starting experience in college. 

If Trubisky ever turns into a long term starter, I'll be shocked. Let a lone a top 10 QB. 

Agree to disagree but history has my side in this debate and history always wins.

[shawn306]

49 minutes ago, Komba said:

All of that stuff really doesn't matter much when you have a QB.  It's a bonus, but that's it.  Just where the game is at in the modern era.

Totally disagree.

yes qb is the most important position but you cannott keep wasting premium picks 1st, 2nd round picks on qb's that have some question marks. 

If you had a guy like Luck or even Darnold available where you plugged him in and you don't worry about him for the next ten years then you do what you have to do. 

Watson (and I love his leadership and his maturity) is not a slam dunk, plug him in and don't worry about the position for the next 10 year type of guy. That is why I am in favor of trading down.

 

Luck is a great qb. He has no talent around him. So what good is he ?

[bitonti]

I'm far too lazy to scroll thru 15 pages of Watson talk... this has already been said probably but the interceptions worry me and the arm strength seriously worries me.

while they've only done radar gun at combine since 2008, still the list of guys less than 55 mph is pathetic. Watson threw 49 mph I just can't get over it. 

Maybe he was taking stuff off to be accurate but that's not good either.  Watson in rd2 would be a value pick. rd 1 i can't get behind it unless it's super late like HOU or KC.  

Yes, He's a really great dude. But the Jets don't play in a dome. We can't live through Chad Pennington again. 

 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

21 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

13 pages. In a day. Good lord.

I feel like it's closer to 11 but for this goofball with all the random caps and whatnot.

[Gas2No99]

13 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

I feel like it's closer to 11 but for this goofball with all the random caps and whatnot.

. . . . and she shall die alone as well.

[T0mShane]

3 hours ago, Komba said:

No, because I'm confident in my ability to identify a QB in that many games.  So are other NFL talent evaluators and that is the reason he's going to go so high in this draft.  The fact that he didn't start the year prior is the only reason we even have a prayer at getting him.  Because some dopes want it to hit them over the head with it being so obvious.  The point is that it's never obvious outside of Luck. And even he has huge flaws.

Hello, friend. I, too, watch a lot of tape on the quarterbacks and pride myself on my ability to separate the wheat from the chaff. I had Russell Wilson ranked very high and Ryan Leaf very low because of stuff I picked up in my film sessions that I know others would miss. Don't let these laymen get you down. 

[Matt39]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Hello, friend. I, too, watch a lot of tape on the quarterbacks and pride myself on my ability to separate the wheat from the chaff. I had Russell Wilson ranked very high and Ryan Leaf very low because of stuff I picked up in my film sessions that I know others would miss. Don't let these laymen get you down. 

Based on your film study, who would you say is this years Vernon Adams?

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Based on your film study, who would you say is this years Vernon Adams?

As in, which is best QB prospect to be broken down by a high schooler ad nauseum who ends up going to Canada and sucking? That's easy. CJ Beathard.

 

The real question is, who is this year's Brett Smith? 

[bealeb319]

What makes Fournette a "freak"?

Size speed and production?

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app

[JoJoTownsell1]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

As in, which is best QB prospect to be broken down by a high schooler ad nauseum who ends up going to Canada and sucking? That's easy. CJ Beathard.

 

The real question is, who is this year's Brett Smith? 

100%. I watch a ton of big ten football and beathard is just putrid. He was an awful college QB. I have no idea why he was even invited to the combine other than his last name/daddy.

[#90]

He cant read a defense. A Dumb Dumb like Geno.

[Scoop24]

Idk reason why not but listening to Bucky and Gruden pass few days they sure make u excited to draft Watson 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Scoop24 said:

Idk reason why not but listening to Bucky and Gruden pass few days they sure make u excited to draft Watson 

that's their job.  

[Scoop24]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

that's their job.  

I mean they don't sound high on Mitch . So maybe it just there honest opinion 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Scoop24 said:

I mean they don't sound high on Mitch . So maybe it just there honest opinion 

the main reason analysts are hesitant to go all in on trubisky is b/c he was a 1 year starter.  and that's a fair take.  i like him, i wouldn't mind if the jets took him.  but based on tony pauline's blurb about a week ago, i can't help but think the jets are intrigued by mahomes.  this is the first year in a while where i really have no read on what the jets are thinking in the first round.  i actually predicted lee last year, based on how slow the lbs were the year before.  but this year, it could be any position except maybe DL, and i think there's a good chance they trade back.  

[Gas2No99]

16 and counting . . . . 

[Stark]

12 hours ago, #90 said:

He cant read a defense. A Dumb Dumb like Geno.

No one can be as dumb as Geno. It can't be possible.

[Scoop24]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

the main reason analysts are hesitant to go all in on trubisky is b/c he was a 1 year starter.  and that's a fair take.  i like him, i wouldn't mind if the jets took him.  but based on tony pauline's blurb about a week ago, i can't help but think the jets are intrigued by mahomes.  this is the first year in a while where i really have no read on what the jets are thinking in the first round.  i actually predicted lee last year, based on how slow the lbs were the year before.  but this year, it could be any position except maybe DL, and i think there's a good chance they trade back.  

Hmm I been warming up on Mahomes for few months now .. u got a link too that blurb I'm interested in seeing what was said ?

[Scoop24]

12 hours ago, #90 said:

He cant read a defense. A Dumb Dumb like Geno.

Nick Saban begs to differ 

[Stark]

3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

the main reason analysts are hesitant to go all in on trubisky is b/c he was a 1 year starter.  and that's a fair take.  i like him, i wouldn't mind if the jets took him.  but based on tony pauline's blurb about a week ago, i can't help but think the jets are intrigued by mahomes.  this is the first year in a while where i really have no read on what the jets are thinking in the first round.  i actually predicted lee last year, based on how slow the lbs were the year before.  but this year, it could be any position except maybe DL, and i think there's a good chance they trade back.  

Ill take Mahomes out of all the QB's, I know he is raw, needs to work on drops and footwork, reading defenses. BUT... he has abilities that you can't coach. Based on all the QB's in this draft he is the only one I would want us to take