What are the reasons to not draft Watson?

[UntouchableCrew]

I had literally never heard of MPH velocity being an important measurement for QBs until this year.

I'm convinced Watson will end up being a stud in this league, but who knows. It's a gamble at 6 on a team that needs a lot, that's for sure.

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, The Crusher said:

Wassup Villy Vill?

Making me a sandwich...with Mayo. 

Sup brother? 

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

Making me a sandwich...with Mayo. 

Sup brother? 

Better you than me my friend. Just chilling. Waiting to see how the Jets will screw the draft up this time. 

[Jet_Engine1]

If you needed a radar gun to see that Watson doesn't have a good fastball, then I don't know what to say. Even during the NC game, it was apparent that he has below average arm talent. 

 

Again, good kid. Competitor. But you just don't draft Tyrod Taylor in the first. Never mind top 10.

 

Think about it. This kid has all of the intangibles, he's played at the highest level of NCAA Ball. He's a 3 year starter. He won a National Championship for Chrissakes.... And he's still a debateable first rounder. Why? Accuracy. Arm strength. Consistency. Turnovers. Fix ONE of this issues and he's a consensus top 3 pick. Give him Cardale Jones arm and he goes #1 with teams fighting over him.

 

But he's a flawed player, and I wouldn't bet the farm on him. That's all.

[Villain The Foe]

4 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Better you than me my friend. Just chilling. Waiting to see how the Jets will screw the draft up this time. 

Wouldnt be surprising. Will you ever decide to grace us with a Crusher-style Mock draft? Maybe we can email it to 1 Jets drive and say "here you go...and dont f it up"! lol. 

[thadude]

2 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Who doesn't ? Lol 

My left nut?  Maybe?

[shuler82]

15 minutes ago, JiF said:

This time last year, Suck for Watson was a popular phrase.

At one point, Christian Hackenberg was the consensus #1 overall pick.

Who knows WTF is going to happen next year.  Some of those kids might not even come out and if they do, what if they're MPH is 49???!!!!!!!

 

I'm not sure I understand your point... which seems to be - let's pick an underwhelming prospect now, because if we wait a year, that prospect who we think might be good today, could end up just as underwhelming? 

 

[thadude]

2 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

The Jets will draft defense in the first round again.  It has worked so far, right??????

Until we get a HC and GM that are committed to the Offense , we will never make a run.  It's sad that Woody can't see this.

We should draft nothing but secondary first 3 rounds than watch Brady put up a 40 spot on those duds

[ZachEY]

16 minutes ago, JiF said:

This time last year, Suck for Watson was a popular phrase.

At one point, Christian Hackenberg was the consensus #1 overall pick.

Who knows WTF is going to happen next year.  Some of those kids might not even come out and if they do, what if they're MPH is 49???!!!!!!!

 

I can't say I remember Suck for Watson.

I do remember Hackenberg, but that was largely based on High School, no?

No idea what's happening here, but it's just one of those cases where I'd go for the bird in the bush, I suppose.

[JustInFudge]

15 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

great points.  i hope they trade back, get extra picks and do not address qb until later rounds.  then mccags says after the draft that they think they have their franchise qb in hack.  that would be a bold move.

I personally dont think they're taking QB but I've appointed myself as Deshaun Watson's personal JN defender because I think he's awesome and want him badly.

[thadude]

1 hour ago, NYJCAP2 said:

Trade the pick for Garoppolo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah I'm sure Belichick will do that

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

Wouldnt be surprising. Will you ever decide to grace us with a Crusher-style Mock draft? Maybe we can email it to 1 Jets drive and say "here you go...and dont f it up"! lol. 

Honestly don't enough about it. Not really the type to make believe I do. Honestly after seeing Sam Darnold in the Rose Bowl last year  I really can't think about any other player. Hopefully he takes a step back next year or I may lose my mind when he go's to another team after we win one game too many to have a shot. Be a lot easier on my cholesterol engorged heart if he stinks next year. 

[thadude]

Just now, JiF said:

I personally dont think they're taking QB but I've appointed myself as Deshaun Watson's personal JN defender because I think he's awesome and want him badly.

We're not drafting a qb.  Mac signed McCown 

[JustInFudge]

29 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

How do you know that exactly? Wasnt the QB velocity test introduced to the Combine in 2008? We have no idea what the velocity of any of the QB's (including many of the current franchise QB's) before 2008 are.

Great post, cutting it up for simplicity purposes.  QB velocity test was never introduced to the combine.  It's not an official event.  It's bloggers with a radar gun reporting the MPH. 

[nyjbuddy]

3 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

And I'll ask again, since it continues to be ignored...

Does it matter at all that one of the most respected draft analysts, Mike Mayock, who just saw the kid live and in person not more than 1 month ago, stated his professional assessment is that "Watson's arm strength is OUTSTANDING on all three levels."

He didn't say "adequate" or "plus" or "better than avg" or "decent".  He said outstanding.

Why does this not seem to count to those stating he has a weak arm???

Maybe doesn't fit their chosen narrative?

Tough Mayock is a very highly regarded draft analyst and personally I think he is one of the better ones, his evaluation of QBs is not really his strong suit. He does well in many of the other positions and does really good analysis on them, but he has missed a lot on QBs.  When it comes to QBs, he is like Gruden, inflating players abilities and gushing over everything they do well and never really talk about the negatives.  Plus he was talking about the pro day where there is no defensive pressure and can set his feet right (almost).  They practice these throws leading up the pro day and make sure that he is doing everything correctly (everything the evaluators want to see).  From that same quote by Mayock, "They really highlighted movement starting under center. A lot of waggle, bootlegs, sprintout. But his footwork was much improved because they're working on the feet and the hips, trying to sync that up with his arm strength," Mayock said. "Now his arm strength at all three levels is outstanding -- short, medium, deep. He had a little bit more trajectory on the football, another thing they worked on."  The question is, will his new mechanics break down during a game?  "Arm strength currently limited by mechanical issues that are correctable." - nfl.com.  He knows what the NFL scouts and evaluators are looking for and he knows he has to work on them.  This is good as it shows he is willing to work hard and get better, but it also means he is not there yet.  In that brief quote by Mayock you see he needs to work on "movement starting under center", "footwork...working on the feet and the hips, trying to sync that up with his arm strength" and "trajectory on the football, another thing they worked on"

Take a look at this past couple of drafts:

2016 - Did well with Wentz over Goff, Dak was a surprise and 3,4,5 are still to be determined, Brissett and Kessler could be on that board
1. Carson Wentz, North Dakota State 
2. Jared Goff, California 
3. Paxton Lynch, Memphis 
4. Connor Cook, Michigan State 
5. Christian Hackenberg, Penn State

Rise: Hackenberg (NR)
Fall: Dak Prescott, Mississippi State (5)

2015 - Got the top 2 right (can debate which is better but still top 2 seem legit).  Hundley, I think will eventually be the 3.  Siemian no where to be seen.
1. Marcus Mariota, Oregon 
2. Jameis Winston, Florida State 
3. Bryce Petty, Baylor 
4. Brett Hundley, UCLA 
5. Sean Mannion, Oregon State

Rise: Hundley (5), Mannion (NR)
Fall: Garrett Grayson, Colorado State (4)

2014 - Manziel over Carr, Bortles, Bridewater (3 starting QBs) plus Garoppolo
1. Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M 
2. Blake Bortles, Central Florida 
3. Derek Carr, Fresno State 
4. Jimmy Garoppolo, Eastern Illinois 
T-5. Zach Mettenberger, LSU 
T-5. Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville

2013 - Terrible class altogether, but Glennon, Manuel and even Jones have showed more than what Smith has shown
1. Geno Smith, West Virginia
2. Matt Barkley, USC 
3. Mike Glennon, N.C. State 
4. Ryan Nassib, Syracuse 
5. Landry Jones, Oklahoma

 

 

[Mogglez]

2 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Learn how to read I said an average fans perspective including myself. 

Get off my ass you are like a diaper. 

When JW12 calls someone a diaper my day is instantly better.

Works better than Lexapro.

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

I personally dont think they're taking QB but I've appointed myself as Deshaun Watson's personal JN defender because I think he's awesome and want him badly.

I'm sure this will get boo'd as well, but I'd be happy if the Browns call, trade up for Trubisky after taking Garrett, netting us the Browns 3rd or a 2018 2nd round pick (I might prefer the latter) and then we still have a shot at OJ Howard, Mike Williams, John Ross, Dalvin Cook, Cam Robinson, et al.

[JustInFudge]

6 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

I'm not sure I understand your point... which seems to be - let's pick an underwhelming prospect now, because if we wait a year, that prospect who we think might be good today, could end up just as underwhelming? 

 

I dont think Watson is underwhelming.  The point is, things change.  And those holding out hope for Sam Darnold can look no further than our own Christian Hackenberg.

 

4 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I can't say I remember Suck for Watson.

I do remember Hackenberg, but that was largely based on High School, no?

No idea what's happening here, but it's just one of those cases where I'd go for the bird in the bush, I suppose.

You dont?  After he torched Bama?  Everyone wanted him.  Myself included was preaching suck for Watson.  It was one of my biggest contentions vs. resigning Fitz.  

Hack was the #1 rated prospect in the land coming out of High School.  But his #1 project was largely based on his freshman season under O'Brien.  Specifically, the game vs. Wisconsin had everyone wetting themselves.  Similar to Darnold being based on his game vs. Penn St. 

[jeremy2020]

He sucks.

[Villain The Foe]

13 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Honestly don't enough about it. Not really the type to make believe I do. Honestly after seeing Sam Darnold in the Rose Bowl last year  I really can't think about any other player. Hopefully he takes a step back next year or I may lose my mind when he go's to another team after we win one game too many to have a shot. Be a lot easier on my cholesterol engorged heart if he stinks next year. 

That was a ridiculous Rose Bowl game. The QB from Penn State played pretty well too. INT's killed them though. Seen the game on youtube, pretty epic. 

 

How did we get stuck with Christian Hackenberg again? 

[JustInFudge]

5 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I'm sure this will get boo'd as well, but I'd be happy if the Browns call, trade up for Trubisky after taking Garrett, netting us the Browns 3rd or a 2018 2nd round pick (I might prefer the latter) and then we still have a shot at OJ Howard, Mike Williams, John Ross, Dalvin Cook, Cam Robinson, et al.

I'm convinced we're not taking a QB, so this would be the ideal scenario for me as well. 

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

Everything evolves around the QB without a decent QB nothing else matters, we can all argue and discuss this until the world comes to an end. 

I agree 100%. Knowing the jets luck with rushing/ reaching every yr and hoping for best, we should finally take a yr off and wait for much better options next yr. This isn't 09 when we needed a qb asap to plug in a playoff ready team with #1 d and great running game. We aren't going anywhere this yr that's for sure. If the jets take Watson this yr, he likely won't start right away. We Will do even worse by having our premium #6 pick  on the bench, instead of having a non qb impact position player plugging the many holes we have. So picking Watson would probably make our record worse, to put us into the top picks next yr, when much better qbs are coming. But we will have to pass because we have hack and Watson ha. 

[joewilly12]

Hack vs Wisconsin 

 

[thadude]

7 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

That was a ridiculous Rose Bowl game. The QB from Penn State played pretty well too. INT's killed them though. Seen the game on youtube, pretty epic. 

 

How did we get stuck with Christian Hackenberg again? 

Because Mac is the worst evaluator of the Qb position maybe ever

[NYJCAP2]

Yeah I'm sure Belichick will do that

1 & 2 get it done


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shuler82]

1 minute ago, thadude said:

Because Mac is the worst evaluator of the Qb position maybe ever

And considering Houston's rock solid QB lineage that's really surprising. 

[Beerfish]

15 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I'm sure this will get boo'd as well, but I'd be happy if the Browns call, trade up for Trubisky after taking Garrett, netting us the Browns 3rd or a 2018 2nd round pick (I might prefer the latter) and then we still have a shot at OJ Howard, Mike Williams, John Ross, Dalvin Cook, Cam Robinson, et al.

They would be getting a steal in that deal as in the Browns, they would have to cough up their 1st 2nd rounder this year minimum.  I very much want to trade down but we are not giving that pick away.

[thadude]

1 minute ago, shuler82 said:

And considering Houston's rock solid QB lineage that's really surprising. 

8 more months

[Jet_Engine1]

18 minutes ago, JiF said:

 

  Similar to Darnold being based on his game vs. Penn St. 

 Darnold went 9-1 for the season, throwing 31 TDs, over 3000 yards at a comp % over 67. Kid was a dominant player for a season, and I can't wait to see what he does this coming year.

 

If he was a junior and decided to come out THIS YEAR he would have indisputably been the top QB in the draft. It wouldn't even be close. This year will be a good one for USC.

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, thadude said:

Because Mac is the worst evaluator of the Qb position maybe ever

Hard to disagree with the hypothetical. Dude paid Fitz 12 million, let Geno walk without seeing what he could do for him, drafted hack with a 2nd round pick only to have the HC say on record that "its not out of the realm of possibility that the Jets draft a QB at 6", signs McCown at 6 million guaranteed with the possibility of that reaching upwards of 13 million and drafted Petty in the 4th round who admitted to not being able to identify the "mike" LB'er and learned how to diagnose defenses while playing Madden. 

 

That's too funny not to be true! lol. 

 

In all seriousness though, the Hackenberg draft pick wouldnt have been all that bad if not for the fact that he used a 2nd round pick in order to do it. I've gone to draftbreakdown after the draft last year and then again after the McCown signing just to see again what Hackenberg put on tape, and the only thing that I could say is "my goodness". lol. 

You can see that there's something there....but nothing, and I mean NOTHING that would have indicated that a 2nd round pick would be a position to take him with. Not even a 3rd rounder. It was a terrible pick in regards to position, and given the fact that he was a 2nd rounder who was literally kept from the football field when 3 QB's before him got hurt/benched and currently has to share a room with Josh McCown is pointing to that pick being terrible overall. 

[thadude]

3 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Hard to disagree with the hypothetical. Dude paid Fitz 12 million, let Geno walk without seeing what he could do for him, drafted hack with a 2nd round pick only to have the HC say on record that "its not out of the realm of possibility that the Jets draft a QB at 6", signs McCown at 6 million guaranteed with the possibility of that reaching upwards of 13 million and drafted Petty in the 4th round who admitted to not being able to identify the "mike" LB'er and learned how to diagnose defenses while playing Madden. 

 

That's too funny not to be true! lol. 

 

In all seriousness though, the Hackenberg draft pick wouldnt have been all that bad if not for the fact that he used a 2nd round pick in order to do it. I've gone to draftbreakdown after the draft last year and then again after the McCown signing just to see again what Hackenberg put on tape, and the only thing that I could say is "my goodness". lol. 

You can see that there's something there....but nothing, and I mean NOTHING that would have indicated that a 2nd round pick would be a position to take him with. Not even a 3rd rounder. It was a terrible pick in regards to position, and given the fact that he was a 2nd rounder who was literally kept from the football field when 3 QB's before him got hurt/benched and currently has to share a room with Josh McCown is pointing to that pick being terrible overall. 

In two years Mac gave Fitz and McCown $20 million guaranteed, drafted Petty who is mediocre and Hack in the 2nd round who is God-Awful

 

A blind 5 year old girl would have a better track record by now

 

[thadude]

6 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

 Darnold went 9-1 for the season, throwing 31 TDs, over 3000 yards at a comp % over 67. Kid was a dominant player for a season, and I can't wait to see what he does this coming year.

 

If he was a junior and decided to come out THIS YEAR he would have indisputably been the top QB in the draft. It wouldn't even be close. This year will be a good one for USC.

And we're one fluke win from completely missing out on him 

 

Not only are the Browns and 49ers  going to be really bad next year I think the Minnesota Vikings might go 2-14 or worse

 

[NoBowles]

Another reason not to draft Watson, or any QB high in this draft, is that I'd say there is a very high probability that Bowles and his staff will be gone after this year. So Watson, or another QB will spend one year learning a system, only to have to learn a new one the following year. Generally not very good for the development of a young QB. 

Suck this year

Fire Bowles

Draft Darnold

Profit!

[NoBowles]

23 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

let Geno walk without seeing what he could do for him

Yeah, this one hurts bad. I think this one has already been proven wrong. Within minutes of being available by the rest of the NFL, Geno had multiple starting offers from other teams. Clearly we messed this one up bad.

[Beerfish]

Just now, NoBowles said:

Another reason not to draft Watson, or any QB high in this draft, is that I'd say there is a very high probability that Bowles and his staff will be gone after this year. So Watson, or another QB will spend one year learning a system, only to have to learn a new one the following year. Generally not very good for the development of a young QB. 

Suck this year

Fire Bowles

Draft Darnold

Profit!

This is my ideal scenario, we need to acquire another 1st rounder next year.  Hopefully we can traded down far enough for that to be plausible.