Explanation on how Macagnan got robbed on his trade downs based on nfl draft chart.

[Larz]

Or he didn't like how the board eas falling and at least got something

This board needs an enema my god

[Tinstar]

12 minutes ago, slats said:

It's disappointing seeing two teams after the Jets trading down in the first and acquiring a first in next year's draft as a result. That's exactly what I wanted them to do. Also wish we were talking about how Mac robbed other GMs, but I don't think he exactly got fleeced in these two deals, either. I like the extra picks, no matter what the math. 

I wanted to trade down from 6 with the intention of trying to get a 1st next year also, but when the best player in the draft on some boards fall in your lap and you have absolutely nothing at the position, what choice do you have  ?  Everyone thinks the Jets need to add a CB, but looking at the games last year, the biggest problem was communication in the defensive backfield . There was no leadership and guys were making mistake after mistake in every game . Most of the time it was the same mistake with the safeties  not being where they needed to be .

I absolutely hate drafting a safety in the top 10, but this player reputation as a leader, without making a single play improves the room 100% .

The Jets now have a strong DL, youngsters at Linebacker and leadership and youth in the secondary .  If they can somehow find a Pass rush without depending on the Line or blitzing the safeties, this defense will be special .

[mphtrilogy]

So he gets killed for not trading down at 6 accepting any crap offer

and gets killed later for trading down to accumulate more picks, that the team desperatley needs, in a crapshoot part of the draft where he can actually use his scouting staff that he installed last year  in actually picking some ballplayers in a chance to hit on some gems and change the culture of this team by using what should be his strenght

got it

 

the roster is not good, we need a lot of players... now we hope for some quality to drop

[JoJoTownsell1]

For perspective, the Vikings traded their third-round No. 104 overall pick (86 points) to 49ers for their fourth-round No. 109 overall pick (76 pts) and their seventh-round No. 219 overall pick (3.8 pts). That's 86 pts for 79.8.

 

looks like the Vikings didn't get enough either to trade down in a similar spot. Perhaps that is what all teams dealt with when trading down in the mid rounds.

either way, I'll let the rest of you panic over nothing. Enjoy.

[Powpow]

36 minutes ago, RSJ said:

Considering that the only TE on the team has a severe drinking problem Im hoping they address the position in round 4.

Yes he will acquire a TE that doesn't have a drinking problem but will have a football problem.

[thadude]

1 minute ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

For perspective, the Vikings traded their third-round No. 104 overall pick (86 points) to 49ers for their fourth-round No. 109 overall pick (76 pts) and their seventh-round No. 219 overall pick (3.8 pts). That's 86 pts for 79.8.

 

looks like the Vikings didn't get enough either to trade down in a similar spot. Perhaps that is what all teams dealt with when trading down in the mid rounds.

either way, I'll let the rest of you panic over nothing. Enjoy.

Vikings are going to be really bad next season maybe worse than us

[thadude]

Just now, Powpow said:

Yes he will acquire a TE that doesn't have a drinking problem but will have a football problem.

Hahaha

[Lith]

A good GM needs to be able to do more than evaluate talent.  He needs to know how to build a roster, how and when to make a deal and needs to be a solid negotiator.   Macc may be able to evaluate talent, but he is not a good GM.

Taking Leo in 2015, with Sheldon and Mo on the roster would only have made sense if he could have gotten value for either guy.  Our coaching staff has never figured out how to get all 3 guys on the field together.  Both Mo & Sheldon had more value to another team than to us, since either guy was easily replaced by Leo.  Yet, here we are, 2 years later and all 3 guys are still on the roster, and we still don't know how to use all 3 effectively.  I think odds are better than 50-50 that we go into the season with all 3 this year.  If Macc was really offered a 2 for Sheldon last season and turned it down as had been rumored, that speaks to his inability to recognize value and strike a deal to improve the team. Incompetence.

In 2016, his management of the QB position was abosulutely dreadful.  Most of us on this site realized that Fitz solid 2015 season was an illusion.  He feasted against bad defenses, caught some lucky breaks with dropped picks, and had a great WR tandem.  He allowed Fitz to hold him up all year.  Drafted Hack in the 2nd round - Hack may be a fine player someday (I doubt it) but to use a 2nd round pick on a guy you are not even going to let sniff the field.  Carried 4 QBs all year.  And we are still paying Fitz $5MM this season.  Incompetence.

Just look at the 10 highest paid guys on our roster.  These guys should be the foundation of the team.  You win with the guys at the top of the roster.  3 guys who play the same position -- Leo, Mo, Sheldon.  2 guards, Carpenter and Winters, who are fine players but not at a premium position.  A # 2 WR coming off of shoulder surgery,.  An aging inside linebacker.  A nickel CB who is a penalty flag machine. A safety coming off of knee surgery who is only meh when healthy.  And a 38 year old QB with 18 wins over a 14 year career.  Incompetence.

The two trade back yesterday.  I had been waiting for us to trade back all night.  Both times, when I saw we traded back I was thirlled.  Checked the draft value chart, only to see that we settled for a pick about a round later than we should have.  Hopefully Macc still picks good players with the extra picks we acquired and then nobody will give a sh*t about where he took them.  But the value just wasn't there in either trade.  Incompetence.

Macc may be a solid talent evaluator.  To be fair, he has found some nice players, especially late in the draft, he has added some good UDFAs and late round picks.  But his with his rigid adherence to BPA, I believe he has missed opportunities to improve the team.  Where are the difference makers? The franchise QB, the left tackle, the edge rusher, the #1 WR, the shut down corner, the franchise QB, the feature back. After 2 and a half drafts, we still don't have any.  Incompetence.

End of rant.
 

[BurnleyJet]

46 minutes ago, RSJ said:

Considering that the only TE on the team has a severe drinking problem Im hoping they address the position in round 4.

Amen, could we pass on so many TE prospects. On the good note we got two starting Safeties, to replace the expensive broken Free Agent one, and the other to replace the 1st round bust, that we could have selected Derick Carr instead one.

I cant wait for next year, when we draft the  a 1st round ILB, to replace the midget we have in the position now, 

[Powpow]

13 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

I wanted to trade down from 6 with the intention of trying to get a 1st next year also, but when the best player in the draft on some boards fall in your lap and you have absolutely nothing at the position, what choice do you have  ?  Everyone thinks the Jets need to add a CB, but looking at the games last year, the biggest problem was communication in the defensive backfield . There was no leadership and guys were making mistake after mistake in every game . Most of the time it was the same mistake with the safeties  not being where they needed to be .

I absolutely hate drafting a safety in the top 10, but this player reputation as a leader, without making a single play improves the room 100% .

The Jets now have a strong DL, youngsters at Linebacker and leadership and youth in the secondary .  If they can somehow find a Pass rush without depending on the Line or blitzing the safeties, this defense will be special .

FYI their youngsters at LB have to be the worst collection of hasbeens in this league. They have done SQUAT and have shown no promise. Jenkins is the lone guy to shine a bit but can he stay healthy. And the DB's are terrible, just terrible. Yes The defense will be especially terrible. Mac had an opportunity to get a quality DB, quality RB, quality TE and blew it big time. 

[Scott Dierking]

41 minutes ago, slats said:

It's disappointing seeing two teams after the Jets trading down in the first and acquiring a first in next year's draft as a result. That's exactly what I wanted them to do. Also wish we were talking about how Mac robbed other GMs, but I don't think he exactly got fleeced in these two deals, either. I like the extra picks, no matter what the math. 

I understand. BUT, when you have a roster devoid of current talent, putting talent acquisition off until the next year is jack and the magic beans kind of stuff. Especially if you are on the hot seat. Which is what I read here, so it has to be true.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, Lith said:

A good GM needs to be able to do more than evaluate talent.  He needs to know how to build a roster, how and when to make a deal and needs to be a solid negotiator.   Macc may be able to evaluate talent, but he is not a good GM.

Taking Leo in 2015, with Sheldon and Mo on the roster would only have made sense if he could have gotten value for either guy.  Our coaching staff has never figured out how to get all 3 guys on the field together.  Both Mo & Sheldon had more value to another team than to us, since either guy was easily replaced by Leo.  Yet, here we are, 2 years later and all 3 guys are still on the roster, and we still don't know how to use all 3 effectively.  I think odds are better than 50-50 that we go into the season with all 3 this year.  If Macc was really offered a 2 for Sheldon last season and turned it down as had been rumored, that speaks to his inability to recognize value and strike a deal to improve the team. Incompetence.

In 2016, his management of the QB position was abosulutely dreadful.  Most of us on this site realized that Fitz solid 2015 season was an illusion.  He feasted against bad defenses, caught some lucky breaks with dropped picks, and had a great WR tandem.  He allowed Fitz to hold him up all year.  Drafted Hack in the 2nd round - Hack may be a fine player someday (I doubt it) but to use a 2nd round pick on a guy you are not even going to let sniff the field.  Carried 4 QBs all year.  And we are still paying Fitz $5MM this season.  Incompetence.

Just look at the 10 highest paid guys on our roster.  These guys should be the foundation of the team.  You win with the guys at the top of the roster.  3 guys who play the same position -- Leo, Mo, Sheldon.  2 guards, Carpenter and Winters, who are fine players but not at a premium position.  A # 2 WR coming off of shoulder surgery,.  An aging inside linebacker.  A nickel CB who is a penalty flag machine. A safety coming off of knee surgery who is only meh when healthy.  And a 38 year old QB with 18 wins over a 14 year career.  Incompetence.

The two trade back yesterday.  I had been waiting for us to trade back all night.  Both times, when I saw we traded back I was thirlled.  Checked the draft value chart, only to see that we settled for a pick about a round later than we should have.  Hopefully Macc still picks good players with the extra picks we acquired and then nobody will give a sh*t about where he took them.  But the value just wasn't there in either trade.  Incompetence.

Macc may be a solid talent evaluator.  To be fair, he has found some nice players, especially late in the draft, he has added some good UDFAs and late round picks.  But his with his rigid adherence to BPA, I believe he has missed opportunities to improve the team.  Where are the difference makers? The franchise QB, the left tackle, the edge rusher, the #1 WR, the shut down corner, the franchise QB, the feature back. After 2 and a half drafts, we still don't have any.  Incompetence.

End of rant.
 

Great post.

I didn't hear about any alleged offer of a 2nd rounder for Sheldon last year, though. I thought it was Mo that was being dangled (but he drew a red line at a 1st round pick minimum, which nobody was surrendering without the aid of heavy hallucinogens). Then he stubbornly got nothing, as always, he then extended him at the last minute. Perhaps it was done in part so he could fit a $12m Fitz under his maxed-out cap shortly thereafter (even with shoveling off $5m of the cap hit to this year). 

Also you listed franchise QB twice in the last paragraph, but we'll allow it because it's just that important (if not more).  

[Powpow]

16 minutes ago, thadude said:

Vikings are going to be really bad next season maybe worse than us

Teddy will be back. No way they can be worse. And they filled the hole Peterson left. They'll be .500 at least.

[nycdan]

1 hour ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

The problem is mac froze again, took a player in 2nd round that probably wasn't getting picked until the 3rd. Same exact scenario as last yr. Nobody else was picking hackenberg in the 2nd. I don't think teams were lining up for Darren lee either. I just want to hold this guy accountable. Just because they love a guy doesn't mean they shouldn't evaluate  wether other teams like the guy as much. If mac was smart about that he could have traded down and still very acquired maye. 

There's a lot of pre-draft reporting to support Maye as a 2nd-rounder.  Mostly seems to have been ranked around 50 overall which means he was a bit early, but not likely to be there in round 3.  The question is more about whether he was really the best player for them at that point.  That I can't answer.

[long suffering jets fan]

1 hour ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

I did the math using the value chart and in both trades combined we surrendered a total of 35 Value Points.

That is essentially the equivalent of another 5th RD Pick that we left on the table in these two deals combined.

Good way to look at it!  Wondering how the other teams made out in the same analysis.  Maybe there is a premium to trade down due to the quality in trade downs in this draft, but that might just be the optimist in me. 

[Butterfield]

Lol.  It takes two to tango.  Maybe these were the only offers on the table.  You either move doen or stay where you are.  People would complain either way.

[Butterfield]

1 hour ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

The problem is mac froze again, took a player in 2nd round that probably wasn't getting picked until the 3rd. Same exact scenario as last yr. Nobody else was picking hackenberg in the 2nd. I don't think teams were lining up for Darren lee either. I just want to hold this guy accountable. Just because they love a guy doesn't mean they shouldn't evaluate  wether other teams like the guy as much. If mac was smart about that he could have traded down and still very acquired maye. 

You dont know that at all.  Take a look at Kizer.  He isnt better than Hack and he was taken in the 2nd round too.

[varjet]

Hey Woody.  Call Scot McCloughlan.  Let him drink outside the office.  

Look at the Redskins' draft.  They used his notes.  

[20andOut]

42 minutes ago, Powpow said:

Teddy will be back. No way they can be worse. And they filled the hole Peterson left. They'll be .500 at least.

I wouldn't count on Teddy being back. They said his knee was destroyed.

[Lith]

47 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Great post.

I didn't hear about any alleged offer of a 2nd rounder for Sheldon last year, though. I thought it was Mo that was being dangled (but he drew a red line at a 1st round pick minimum, which nobody was surrendering without the aid of heavy hallucinogens). Then he stubbornly got nothing, as always, he then extended him at the last minute. Perhaps it was done in part so he could fit a $12m Fitz under his maxed-out cap shortly thereafter (even with shoveling off $5m of the cap hit to this year). 

Also you listed franchise QB twice in the last paragraph, but we'll allow it because it's just that important (if not more).  

Thanks.  Read rumors/reports somewhere that the Cowboys had offered a 2 for Sheldon at the trade deadline last year.  No way of knowing if it is correct, but if so, just an awful missed opportunity.  And I guess I got carried away given our need for a franchise QB.  a franchise QB.  

[adb280z]

The chart is a guide.  I would have done the same deal that the Bills got for #10 even though according to the chart it wouldn't have worked.

[long suffering jets fan]

1 hour ago, Lith said:

A good GM needs to be able to do more than evaluate talent.  He needs to know how to build a roster, how and when to make a deal and needs to be a solid negotiator.   Macc may be able to evaluate talent, but he is not a good GM.

Taking Leo in 2015, with Sheldon and Mo on the roster would only have made sense if he could have gotten value for either guy.  Our coaching staff has never figured out how to get all 3 guys on the field together.  Both Mo & Sheldon had more value to another team than to us, since either guy was easily replaced by Leo.  Yet, here we are, 2 years later and all 3 guys are still on the roster, and we still don't know how to use all 3 effectively.  I think odds are better than 50-50 that we go into the season with all 3 this year.  If Macc was really offered a 2 for Sheldon last season and turned it down as had been rumored, that speaks to his inability to recognize value and strike a deal to improve the team. Incompetence.

- Leo was a good pick, but letting the cheaper Snacks go and keeping the oft injured and expensive Mo was the wrong move.  At the time everyone expected the Jets to trade Wilkerson, but Macc never got the deal done.  If he was offered a 2nd for Sheldon and turned it down after the issues he had, that's just stupid.  Based on their behavior last year they should both be gone.

In 2016, his management of the QB position was absolutely dreadful.  Most of us on this site realized that Fitz solid 2015 season was an illusion.  He feasted against bad defenses, caught some lucky breaks with dropped picks, and had a great WR tandem.  He allowed Fitz to hold him up all year.  Drafted Hack in the 2nd round - Hack may be a fine player someday (I doubt it) but to use a 2nd round pick on a guy you are not even going to let sniff the field.  Carried 4 QBs all year.  And we are still paying Fitz $5MM this season.  Incompetence.

- I think at this time last year alot of folks thought that Fitz had finally come around and could play a few years for us.  With that in mind I don't have a problem with him sitting Hackenberg.  They knew in Petty they had a backup at best.   Alot of teams draft QBs and don't play them the first year.  I'm not that harsh on him for this.  Marshall and injuries didn't help us last year either and our offense I felt was very predictable and with no TE.  Gailey should take alot of the blame.  

Just look at the 10 highest paid guys on our roster.  These guys should be the foundation of the team.  You win with the guys at the top of the roster.  3 guys who play the same position -- Leo, Mo, Sheldon.  2 guards, Carpenter and Winters, who are fine players but not at a premium position.  A # 2 WR coming off of shoulder surgery,.  An aging inside linebacker.  A nickel CB who is a penalty flag machine. A safety coming off of knee surgery who is only meh when healthy.  And a 38 year old QB with 18 wins over a 14 year career.  Incompetence.

- 100% Correct, it's a mess and I'm hoping we're in the process of cleaning that up.   We still have alot of big salaries to cut.  I expect to see alot of cuts and trades coming to get those big salaries off our books.  Pryor, Ghilcrest, Decker will likely become Adams, Maye, Stewart.   If anything this draft might be as much about that as anything.  Replace the big non-producing salaries with young hungry players. 

The two trade back yesterday.  I had been waiting for us to trade back all night.  Both times, when I saw we traded back I was thirlled.  Checked the draft value chart, only to see that we settled for a pick about a round later than we should have.  Hopefully Macc still picks good players with the extra picks we acquired and then nobody will give a sh*t about where he took them.  But the value just wasn't there in either trade.  Incompetence.

- I agree 100%, just hope they make the best of those picks, still not acceptable. 

Macc may be a solid talent evaluator.  To be fair, he has found some nice players, especially late in the draft, he has added some good UDFAs and late round picks.  But his with his rigid adherence to BPA, I believe he has missed opportunities to improve the team.  Where are the difference makers? The franchise QB, the left tackle, the edge rusher, the #1 WR, the shut down corner, the franchise QB, the feature back. After 2 and a half drafts, we still don't have any.  Incompetence.

- You're right.  The issue with BPA is you can overdraft some positions while leaving others vacant which has definitely happened to us.  Let's hope some of the young guys we drafted over the last two years really step up this year.

End of rant.

- Not a rant, very good sensible arguments. 
 

I like him, but I can see his inflexibility

 

[bealeb319]

Lol I have to wonder if the fanbase being so angry that we traded down is the result of people only paying attention to the first three rounds worth of prospects. There are still plenty of good prospects out there to be had...if you are upset with our trades because you feel like we got ripped off think about how much it must suck to be a bears fan.

[long suffering jets fan]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

There's no way to know this.  Look at Mahomes.  KC traded up to #10 to draft him.  If a team likes a player they'll draft him.

Mahomes is also going to redshirt this year as well.  I don't expect him to take over the team till Alex Smith is gone. 

[Powpow]

16 minutes ago, 20andOut said:

I wouldn't count on Teddy being back. They said his knee was destroyed.

yikes, they still have Bradford No?

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, Lith said:

Thanks.  Read rumors/reports somewhere that the Cowboys had offered a 2 for Sheldon at the trade deadline last year.  No way of knowing if it is correct, but if so, just an awful missed opportunity.  And I guess I got carried away given our need for a franchise QB.  a franchise QB.  

I thought the rumor was a 3, but no matter. When discussing an expensive player one doesn't need, who isn't signed past the following season, then the top offer is the top offer. Take it.

[DMan77]

I mean I guess based off some numbers it doesn't look great, but the Jets grabbed some good value with the picks they traded back for... Seems pretty solid to me so far, despite the charts and whatever.

[hawk]

I have no idea what Macc's ability is to negotiate or his ability to gauge value.  However, the draft chart is a guide for arm chair GM's who have no clue what goes on in a given war room.  If you have 9 guys that are graded out similar, as in the first trade, or 18 guys that grade out similarly, as in the second trade, does it really matter that some generic chart says it's bad value.  Wouldn't it be better to swap those picks and pick up another opportunity to find a diamond in the rough if you feel your getting the same value in a player?  

[jamesr]

If I've added this up right ... at the start of today we had picks with a total value of 132.6 points. At the end we had picks worth 124.4 points, plus I think a 5th next year?

Is this really worth arguing about??

[thadude]

6 hours ago, Butterfield said:

You dont know that at all.  Take a look at Kizer.  He isnt better than Hack and he was taken in the 2nd round too.

My left nut > Hack

 

You guys are such homers

[thadude]

1 hour ago, DMan77 said:

I mean I guess based off some numbers it doesn't look great, but the Jets grabbed some good value with the picks they traded back for... Seems pretty solid to me so far, despite the charts and whatever.

It's going to take years for the next GM to clean this up

[DMan77]

Just now, thadude said:

It's going to take years for the next GM to clean this up

While I understand your fear and despair, I just don't think this was anywhere near as bad as you're making it in your head. I really don't... I think a lot of people have just trained themselves to see the sky falling all the time. This was not a bad draft. It's not an A+, but they got some really good pieces in my opinion. 

[thadude]

2 minutes ago, DMan77 said:

While I understand your fear and despair, I just don't think this was anywhere near as bad as you're making it in your head. I really don't... I think a lot of people have just trained themselves to see the sky falling all the time. This was not a bad draft. It's not an A+, but they got some really good pieces in my opinion. 

This is the worst draft since 2010

[DMan77]

Just now, thadude said:

This is the worst draft since 2010

I mean that's fine man. You're welcome to that conclusion. I just disagree. I love the players they got. Not all of them, but most.  I didn't see many people taken after the guys we took that I said "damn!". Just didn't. Thought they had great value and are putting good pieces in place for the future.

The only bummer for me was no OL help.

[Larz]

He robbed jerry