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Can Jets’ Richardson Play Himself in to Long-Term Deal?

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SickJetFan

SickJetFan

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

How are you right? You said picking Sheldon over Mo long term would be a fraction of the team's cap hits in paying Mo. It isn't true short term and it isn't true long term.

You did move the goalposts. You started out faith the nonsense about the fraction of the cap savings in 2018. Then you changed it to being a fraction of the cap savings over the course of Mo's contract. You were wrong in both instances.

Glanced at the contract? You painstakingly re-pasted the whole thing.

Painstakingly? What a drama queen you are.

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thadude

thadude

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Fact:

Kacy Rodgers is the worst defensive coordinator in the NFL 

Todd Bowles is one of the worst head coaches in the NFL. 

Our defense last year couldn't stop a nose bleed.  

You Forgot:

Macagnan is the worst General Manager in the NFL.

Woody is the worst Owner in the NFL.

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long suffering jets fan

long suffering jets fan

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

2 of the better DL in the league, but we don't have room... shameful on the part of this organization (specifically the coaching staff), and the fans for accepting this line of thinking as legitimate. The issue is the inability of "defensive-minded" coach and his best buddy running the defense. Not the fact that the Jets just don't have room for a great player. 

The Jets ALWAYS have room for great players, because they are ALWAYS in need of them.

Sad, but true.   I have no confidence in Bowles and his buddy.  Neither of which Macc can fire.

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Mogglez

Mogglez

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, phill1c said:

Even when starting IN POSITION he didn't show much value. And Bowles was the second "stoopid" Jets head coach to do it.

He played 3 games in position last year and those were the Arizona Cardinals, Balitmore Ravens, and LA Rams games.  I f*cking hate the dudes attitude at times but he lit it up in all of them.  In the Arizona game he registered 7 solo tackles.  The Baltimore game he tallied another 7 tackles +1 sack for a loss of 9 yards.  Against the Rams he had ANOTHER 7 tackles with 2 of them being for a loss of yardage.  This is basically the baseline for Sheldon when he is in his natural position.  He also, typically, takes on the LT/C who are usually the better Pass Protecters and still generates a solid pass rush.  Talent wise, he's better than Mo.  

The real question with Richardson is: "Is he worth the risk?".  That?  I don't know.  It's going to depend soley on Wilkerson and which guy we get out of him this year.  The 12.5 sack guy from 2015?  F*ck off Sheldon.  The guy we got last year?  Well, then you have a decision to make.  Especially if Sheldon has a decent year.  If he has a 2014-esque season and Mo falls short of expectations?  Then big ole #96 will be packing his bags.

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phill1c

phill1c

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Mogglez said:

He played 3 games in position last year and those were the Arizona Cardinals, Balitmore Ravens, and LA Rams games.  I f*cking hate the dudes attitude at times but he lit it up in all of them.  In the Arizona game he registered 7 solo tackles.  The Baltimore game he tallied another 7 tackles +1 sack for a loss of 9 yards.  Against the Rams he had ANOTHER 7 tackles with 2 of them being for a loss of yardage.  This is basically the baseline for Sheldon when he is in his natural position.  He also, typically, takes on the LT/C who are usually the better Pass Protecters and still generates a solid pass rush.  Talent wise, he's better than Mo.  

The real question with Richardson is: "Is he worth the risk?".  That?  I don't know.  It's going to depend soley on Wilkerson and which guy we get out of him this year.  The 12.5 sack guy from 2015?  F*ck off Sheldon.  The guy we got last year?  Well, then you have a decision to make.  Especially if Sheldon has a decent year.  If he has a 2014-esque season and Mo falls short of expectations?  Then big ole #96 will be packing his bags.

I'll defer to your account that he played [only] 3 games in position and had solid stats in them. But that accounting doesn't at all mention the negative effects he had on the team--his cancerous relationships, his lack of leadership. Sure, in a very small sample he had some numbers (cherry picking?). Bottom line, the jets lost two of those games. Maybe not due solely to him, but there were plenty of other games where--and I'm not buying that he only played 3 games in position--he really didn't do much of anything.

Basically, IMO, the stats he generates rarely result in victories or many game-turning plays. And, as I have come to believe, he plays a position that seems less impactful than in the past. Combine the meh overall stats and the poisonous attitude and I think he should be someone else's headache. Jets management should make the decision that if you're a knucklehead, you're NOT on the Jets.

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phill1c

phill1c

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Until Todd Bowles and Kacy Rodgers actually do something productive and positive here the FACT remains they both suck at what they do. 

Does Sheldon Richardson call the defensive schemes? 

Again, you wrote an OPINION, which you repeat often...as such I can't dispute it. But, for entertainment value, can you write something more interesting and thought provoking?

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Big Blocker

Big Blocker

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, phill1c said:

I'll defer to your account that he played [only] 3 games in position and had solid stats in them. But that accounting doesn't at all mention the negative effects he had on the team--his cancerous relationships, his lack of leadership. Sure, in a very small sample he had some numbers (cherry picking?). Bottom line, the jets lost two of those games. Maybe not due solely to him, but there were plenty of other games where--and I'm not buying that he only played 3 games in position--he really didn't do much of anything.

Basically, IMO, the stats he generates rarely result in victories or many game-turning plays. And, as I have come to believe, he plays a position that seems less impactful than in the past. Combine the meh overall stats and the poisonous attitude and I think he should be someone else's headache. Jets management should make the decision that if you're a knucklehead, you're NOT on the Jets.

The central point of your post is essentially that Richardson's past shows him to be irredeemable, or likely to be, on a going forward basis.  Personally I am less inclined to be so categorically skeptical.  I think I have a good idea what you are considering when you come to your position.  But I don't feel close enough to what is going on with him on the team to reach the same conclusion.

The OP's question was about CAN, not WILL or WON'T.  That being the case I think the correct answer has to be he can, if...  IF starting with he has or is about to give the FO the hope that he will redeem himself, grow up and get past whatever has turned his early promise into something less than that.

If that comes to pass, there are two significant reasons to think Richardson can stick here.

First of all they've already tried to trade him, and have failed.  While this makes it tempting to think the Jets are overvaluing him, like I think it pretty clear they did with Wilkerson before, then they should not repeat that mistake and end up holding on to him because they expect too much in a trade.  But this goes back to the redemption issue.  Other teams are further away from him, so on what basis would one of them take a chance on him when the Jets are basically saying they're giving up on him?  Some other team would have to think they know something about Richardson, something positive, that the Jets do not see.

The second factor, and here I risk looking really foolish in the coming season, is I think Wilkerson not only has not but will not live up to his contract.  If that is correct and the Jets both see Richardson as redeemable and continue to get no attractive offer for him, then OF COURSE he would likely end up staying with the Jets.

So those are the if's.  But if the if's play his way, the answer is clear.

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phill1c

phill1c

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Big Blocker said:

The central point of your post is essentially that Richardson's past shows him to be irredeemable, or likely to be, on a going forward basis.  Personally I am less inclined to be so categorically skeptical.  I think I have a good idea what you are considering when you come to your position.  But I don't feel close enough to what is going on with him on the team to reach the same conclusion.

The OP's question was about CAN, not WILL or WON'T.  That being the case I think the correct answer has to be he can, if...  IF starting with he has or is about to give the FO the hope that he will redeem himself, grow up and get past whatever has turned his early promise into something less than that.

If that comes to pass, there are two significant reasons to think Richardson can stick here.

First of all they've already tried to trade him, and have failed.  While this makes it tempting to think the Jets are overvaluing him, like I think it pretty clear they did with Wilkerson before, then they should not repeat that mistake and end up holding on to him because they expect too much in a trade.  But this goes back to the redemption issue.  Other teams are further away from him, so on what basis would one of them take a chance on him when the Jets are basically saying they're giving up on him?  Some other team would have to think they know something about Richardson, something positive, that the Jets do not see.

The second factor, and here I risk looking really foolish in the coming season, is I think Wilkerson not only has not but will not live up to his contract.  If that is correct and the Jets both see Richardson as redeemable and continue to get no attractive offer for him, then OF COURSE he would likely end up staying with the Jets.

So those are the if's.  But if the if's play his way, the answer is clear.

thanks, I guess, for the clarification. what would I do without you to tell me how I should answer questions I fully understand?

That said, I don't think he CAN play himself into a long-term deal because, really, in the end, the DE position doesn't warrant three or even two franchise-level players. Even when Richardson and Wilkerson were playing at their elite levels, the result wasn't really all that impressive. That's why Leonard Williams fell to the Jets because many GMs appear to realize that you can easily do without an elite 3-4 DE and still have an effective even stellar defense.

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SickJetFan

SickJetFan

Posted
Posted
On 5/23/2017 at 8:08 AM, Sperm Edwards said:

The gracious and appropriate response for you should have been:

"OK I have once more been wrong about everything. Thank you for setting me straight again."

Lol. ...I have been right about everything.

 

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Big Blocker

Big Blocker

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, phill1c said:

thanks, I guess, for the clarification. what would I do without you to tell me how I should answer questions I fully understand?

That said, I don't think he CAN play himself into a long-term deal because, really, in the end, the DE position doesn't warrant three or even two franchise-level players. Even when Richardson and Wilkerson were playing at their elite levels, the result wasn't really all that impressive. That's why Leonard Williams fell to the Jets because many GMs appear to realize that you can easily do without an elite 3-4 DE and still have an effective even stellar defense.

No, I was describing what I understood your main point to be.  I was not telling you to do anything, although were it not for the rules here, I might have something to say.

But back on the substance, I doubt the FO thinks that they will go without both of Wilkerson and Richardson.  So what I said made sense to me, and as I said was in response to the OP's question of CAN Richardson end up on the Jets.

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phill1c

phill1c

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

No, I was describing what I understood your main point to be.  I was not telling you to do anything, although were it not for the rules here, I might have something to say.

But back on the substance, I doubt the FO thinks that they will go without both of Wilkerson and Richardson.  So what I said made sense to me, and as I said was in response to the OP's question of CAN Richardson end up on the Jets.

Thanks for getting back on the substance. A lotta guys can't do that :-) 

I think it would be best to have either Wilkerson OR Richardson. In my mind, there really is no comparison: Wilkerson, in his prime, is a productive, dependable 3-4 DE. Richardson is possibly more talented but his character really diminishes his value. I mean, look at the comments he made on Brandon Marshall. A mature person takes the high road. Lets it die, because it was ugly on both of them AND THE TEAM!! Richardson did the opposite. And, again, we're not talking about Charles Haley here. We're talking about a fairly productive 3-4 DE, who sporadically plays well and who, to my knowledge, really hasn't made any game-turning plays (of course, this is the Jets here, so even if he did, there was the Fitzpatrick liability).

It's just as important to me to have TEAM FIRST guys making money. And especially at a position that, to me, is not as impactful as it has been in the past.

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thadude

thadude

Posted
Posted
On 5/22/2017 at 10:27 PM, Saul Goodman said:

LOL the team spent this offseason bringing in high character guys. No possibility Richardson gets a long term deal from the Jets. 

Have you seen the contracts Macagnan has handed out?

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Adoni Beast

Adoni Beast

Posted
Posted
On 5/23/2017 at 10:40 PM, thadude said:

Richardson is a time bomb.  Any team that signs him to a multi-year deal is asking for trouble.  Watch him play well next year and con some dumb executive

He still hasn't figured it out. Mr. Where-da-hoez-at? Just said the other day "im already proven, its a contract year, so I just need more stats." I think theres a real chance that him and Mo are both gone after this year, if Mo does his Houdini act again this year. 

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joewilly12

joewilly12

Posted
Posted
On 5/22/2017 at 11:27 PM, Saul Goodman said:

LOL the team spent this offseason bringing in high character guys. No possibility Richardson gets a long term deal from the Jets. 

High character guys LOL you don't trade one of our best defensive players for a late round draft pick. 

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Dunnie

Dunnie

Posted
Posted
If McCown starts, and Richardson plays himself into a monster contract with the Jets, it may finally push me over the edge.  Maybe I'll become a Falcons fan, the cheap beer and hot dogs are very tempting.


Sheldon has sealed his fate ... he's one suspension away from missing a season.

We will let him go next spring. He will command huge $$$ that i hope the Jets spend elsewhere.

Some team like Bills or Lolphins will pick him up at the expense of the rest of the roster.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app
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detectivekimble

detectivekimble

Posted
Posted
On May 23, 2017 at 9:21 AM, phill1c said:

I'll defer to your account that he played [only] 3 games in position and had solid stats in them. But that accounting doesn't at all mention the negative effects he had on the team--his cancerous relationships, his lack of leadership. Sure, in a very small sample he had some numbers (cherry picking?). Bottom line, the jets lost two of those games. Maybe not due solely to him, but there were plenty of other games where--and I'm not buying that he only played 3 games in position--he really didn't do much of anything.

Basically, IMO, the stats he generates rarely result in victories or many game-turning plays. And, as I have come to believe, he plays a position that seems less impactful than in the past. Combine the meh overall stats and the poisonous attitude and I think he should be someone else's headache. Jets management should make the decision that if you're a knucklehead, you're NOT on the Jets.

What cancerous relationships?  Marshall made some comments in the locker room that pissed off half the team.  Richardson said what half the team was thinking.  No one's mad at Sheldon Richardson.  Trust me.

Also, I don't think the guy bitched once when Bowles was misusing him.  Playing at middle linebacker?  Really???

Richardson's biggest issue is smoking weed.

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Savage69

Savage69

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

What cancerous relationships?  Marshall made some comments in the locker room that pissed off half the team.  Richardson said what half the team was thinking.  No one's mad at Sheldon Richardson.  Trust me.

Also, I don't think the guy bitched once when Bowles was misusing him.  Playing at middle linebacker?  Really???

Richardson's biggest issue is smoking weed.

That and Ho's so I guess he's a normal male for that age..:)

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detectivekimble

detectivekimble

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Anthony Jet said:

The real question should be why

forget all his mishaps off the field. What good GM signs a guy to a big contract that needs a walk year to motivate him. 

Best case scenario, he has a MONSTER year we tag and trade him. 

Needs a walk year to motivate him?  The guy has the best motor on the DL.  Not his fault Bowles think it's a good idea to play him at LB and 4-3 DE.

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Anthony Jet

Anthony Jet

Posted
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1 hour ago, detectivekimble said:

Needs a walk year to motivate him?  The guy has the best motor on the DL.  Not his fault Bowles think it's a good idea to play him at LB and 4-3 DE.

So based on everything we know till now you would sign him to a long term lucrative contract today?

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