Cimini: Will Jets' complex offense slow Christian Hackenberg's progress?

[C Mart]

props to Cimini he actually wrote a football article.

Will Jets' complex offense slow Christian Hackenberg's progress?

By Rich Cimini

FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- When Christian Hackenberg receives a playcall from the sideline, it could sound something like this: 

"Blast to Joker right 'X' motion 372 'R' Slant spacing." 

It's a base pass play in Jon Gruden's version of the West Coast offense, known for its complicated verbiage. He taught the system years ago to New York Jets offensive coordinator John Morton, who introduced it to the team in April. 

Jets quarterback Christian Hackenberg is learning his fourth offensive system in the past five seasons, dating to his time at Penn State.

Hello, crash course. 

Veteran quarterbacks say it takes years to master the West Coast offense. Some have complained, claiming it takes too long to receive the play and relay it to the huddle. The Jets are hoping Hackenberg -- in his fourth offensive system in the past five years -- can learn it well enough to play this season. 

Mentally, it's an enormous challenge, particularly since Morton hasn't streamlined it. He's installing the system in its original form, which means a giant playbook and a lot of memorization. 

"You have to keep getting reps at it, hearing it, saying and spitting it back out," Hackenberg said. 

The well-traveled Josh McCown, 38, who has played in just about every system known to man, said the West Coast offense is "like learning a new language." He said the average playcall is 10 to 12 words, which means they're longer than some of Todd Bowles' news conference answers. Every word and every number has a specific meaning, covering the formation, motions/shifts and pass-protection schemes. Mess up one syllable, and you ruin the entire play. 

The Jets' quarterbacks -- McCown, Hackenberg and Bryce Petty -- drill each other on the verbiage. Not only do they want to memorize the playcalls, but their goal is to repeat them with conviction. 

"[You] want to rattle that out smoothly, where the guys in the huddle believe in what we’re talking about," McCown said. 

League insiders think McCown has the edge in the Jets' quarterback competition, in large part, because of his background in this offense. He has played in variations of the West Coast offense, which is a new world for Hackenberg and Petty. 

Former NFL quarterback Jim Miller has a unique perspective because he played under Gruden (Tampa Bay Buccaneers) and former Jets coordinator Chan Gailey (Pittsburgh Steelers). Miller said there's little similarity between the two systems, one of the reasons why he favors McCown in the competition. 

"I think it will be McCown, I really believe that," said Miller, who co-hosts a SiriusXM NFL radio show with Pat Kirwan. "He gives them their best chance to win. He knows that offense, inside and out. Let the young guys learn from him." 

Miller, who visited the Jets this week on his training-camp tour, was kind enough to give a detailed breakdown of the playcall: Blast to Joker right "X" motion 372 "R" Slant spacing. If you like Xs and Os, you'll enjoy this. 

Blast: The type of shift. 

Joker right: The final formation after the shift. In this case, a running back shifts out of the backfield and splits out wide right. 

X motion: The X receiver motions across the formation from weak to strong. 

372: This is the protection. Gruden called it Jet 2 (right) or Jet 3 (left). Miller used a numerical code. It's 372 because the play requires a three-step drop by the quarterback and "72" is the protection, with the line sliding toward the weakside linebacker. The line is responsible for the four-man line, plus the Will linebacker -- a 5-on-5 situation. 

R Slant: After shifting, the running back runs a slant route. 

How the play unfolds: The remaining running back reads the middle linebacker and strongside linebacker. If they both rush, the quarterback is a blocker short and must throw quickly to his best matchup. The tight end runs a five-yard hook. The X receiver, after motioning across the formation, runs a flat route. The Z receiver hooks at five yards. 

Mind you, this is only one play. There are hundreds in Morton's playbook, and each one has variations because of different formations. This is a small sample of what's spinning in Hackenberg's brain when he steps into the huddle, and he must convince 10 other players he knows what he's doing. 

"You want to convey that, 'Hey, I'm in control of this ship and I understand what's going on,'" Miller said. "That's command, that's huddle presence, that's conviction. Make those players believe in you." 

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/70060/will-jets-complex-offense-slow-christian-hackenbergs-progress

[rangerous]

i think i'd be more concerned about the other 10 guys on offense knowing what they need to do.

[Beerfish]

I thought the one thing this guy had going for him is that he was very smart and played in a pro offense out of college and he just had a red shirt year to get used to the complexities of nfl offenses.

The excuse mongering is starting up good and early this year.

[Integrity28]

Hackenblah isn't a "can't learn the playbook" guy. He's a "ruined by shellshock" guy. Think about David Carr after a few years getting creamed behind that Texans OL. If he can be re-programed to not sh*t his pants under pressure - and within the speed of the game - he'll be okay. Not great, but okay. 

His problems are after the snap and before the whistle blows.

[thadude]

31 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I thought the one thing this guy had going for him is that he was very smart and played in a pro offense out of college and he just had a red shirt year to get used to the complexities of nfl offenses.

The excuse mongering is starting up good and early this year.

Watch Kizer, Watson and Glennon all play well this year 

[varjet]

I can't say I am an expert in these matters, but it seems Hack is more of a Parcells/Ehrhardt/Brady-type QB than a WCO QB.  

Trubisky seems he can be a good WCO QB, although he played a spread in college. 

When I think of WCO QBs, I think of QBs a bit shorter, more mobile, and highly intelligent and accurate.

[Larz]

Yada Yada Yada Bowles conspiracy Yada Yada Yada

[thadude]

6 minutes ago, varjet said:

I can't say I am an expert in these matters, but it seems Hack is more of a Parcells/Ehrhardt/Brady-type QB than a WCO QB.  

Trubisky seems he can be a good WCO QB, although he played a spread in college. 

When I think of WCO QBs, I think of QBs a bit shorter, more mobile, and highly intelligent and accurate.

WCO is a severe mismatch for Petty it doesn't suit him at all

 

I don't think any offense suits Hack

[BCJet]

10 minutes ago, thadude said:

Watch Kizer, Watson and Glennon all play well this year 

Fortunately for us Mac cares more about the next 10 years then the next 10 weeks.  Watson will likely start off decently well given the fact that he has a top 3 defense and veteran team around him, but that doesnt make him an elite QB.  Watson doesnt have the arm strength to consistently carry a team.  Can he have the texans at 8-10 wins with that defense, likely yes, but that may be his ceiling. 

I have zero concerns about deshon kizer (didnt even play well in college) or Glennon (hes mike glennon) making us regret not getting them in here.

[thadude]

Just now, BCJet said:

Fortunately for us Mac cares more about the next 10 years then the next 10 weeks.  Watson will likely start off decently well given the fact that he has a top 3 defense and veteran team around him, but that doesnt make him an elite QB.  Watson doesnt have the arm strength to consistently carry a team.  Can he have the texans at 8-10 wins with that defense, likely yes, but that may be his ceiling. 

I have zero concerns about deshon kizer (didnt even play well in college) or Glennon (hes mike glennon) making us regret not getting them in here.

5 more months till Mac and Bowles are both fired!

[Jetster]

We seem to be the only place where everything is too COMPLICATED for our QBs,lol. I was told when the Jets drafted Hackenberg that even Bill Obrien called him a "smart" QB. So, if it turns out Hackenberg sucks is it because everyone around him is stupid or Morton & Bates can't coach for sh*t?

So f*cking sick of the excuses on this team! Mo can't play cause he's coming back from injury, Sheldons playing out of position, Lee is too small (like 2/3 pounds difference from Wagner & others), ASJ is dumb, and on and on and on the excuses go including the damn coaches! This team & organization are filled with excuses. 

Thats why I'm so excited about this total rebuild, no one can hide behind any excuses. They're all exposed down to their f*cking boxers! Bowles either motivates & they play hard or they don't, in wins and losses doesn't matter. Morton & Bates either coach Hack or Petty up or they don't. They either develop & show signs of being an NFL QB or they don't. Rogers either gets his head out of his azz with this defense or he doesn't & we see the same bend & break defense we witnessed last year giving up crazy big plays, guys WIDE OPEN, and not getting off the field on 3rd down. 

Hell, even Kotite, Rex, and Herman Edwards had some success with loaded rosters filled with veterans but the rubber really hits the road when your asked to show IMPROVEMENT over the course of a season even if you lose a bunch of games.

Gonna be fun to watch.

[Tinstar]

9 minutes ago, Jetster said:

We seem to be the only place where everything is too COMPLICATED for our QBs,lol. I was told when the Jets drafted Hackenberg that even Bill Obrien called him a "smart" QB. So, if it turns out Hackenberg sucks is it because everyone around him is stupid or Morton & Bates can't coach for sh*t?

So f*cking sick of the excuses on this team! Mo can't play cause he's coming back from injury, Sheldons playing out of position, Lee is too small (like 2/3 pounds difference from Wagner & others), ASJ is dumb, and on and on and on the excuses go including the damn coaches! This team & organization are filled with excuses. 

Thats why I'm so excited about this total rebuild, no one can hide behind any excuses. They're all exposed down to their f*cking boxers! Bowles either motivates & they play hard or they don't, in wins and losses doesn't matter. Morton & Bates either coach Hack or Petty up or they don't. They either develop & show signs of being an NFL QB or they don't. Rogers either gets his head out of his azz with this defense or he doesn't & we see the same bend & break defense we witnessed last year giving up crazy big plays, guys WIDE OPEN, and not getting off the field on 3rd down. 

Hell, even Kotite, Rex, and Herman Edwards had some success with loaded rosters filled with veterans but the rubber really hits the road when your asked to show IMPROVEMENT over the course of a season even if you lose a bunch of games.

Gonna be fun to watch.

What you need to keep in mind is that the players or the coaches are not making excuses, only the media and the fans who want others to understand why they make certain statements . 

[Jetster]

2 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

What you need to keep in mind is that the players or the coaches are not making excuses, only the media and the fans who want others to understand why they make certain statements . 

Oh, Bowles had plenty of excuses for the defense last year. Guys aren't "getting it"...what? How long does it take for the players to get it? Maybe Todd just can't teach it properly. He also had many, many. boneheaded decisions over the last 2 years.

Todd should be very hard on his own self evaluation.

[De-Jet-Erate/Duane]

14 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

What you need to keep in mind is that the players or the coaches are not making excuses, only the media and the fans who want others to understand why they make certain statements . 

Bingo

[Tinstar]

4 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Oh, Bowles had plenty of excuses for the defense last year. Guys aren't "getting it"...what? How long does it take for the players to get it? Maybe Todd just can't teach it properly. He also had many, many. boneheaded decisions over the last 2 years.

Todd should be very hard on his own self evaluation.

Todd Bowles doesn't teach the Jets players anything and he doesn't make excuses for anyone . That's what his assistant coaches were hired to do . 

[PCP63]

This is why Erhardt-Perkins' way of calling plays is far more superior. These days, you can get just as much specificity with just a couple of words. Needless complication with that WCO sh*t.

Players remember concepts fairly well. Instead of saying "X Blast 2, Megaman Johnny Ray 6, Y Split Z Banana 4", just say, "Ghost Tosser". 

[RoadFan]

A "complex offense" is not why Hack will fail.  There is a laundry list of other reasons higher up the chain.

Unless Schitty is coming back, that is, then the "offense" goes back near the top of the list.

[T0mShane]

46 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

What you need to keep in mind is that the players or the coaches are not making excuses, only the media and the fans who want others to understand why they make certain statements . 

Hack was chock full of excuses in that Gruden Camp thing.

[Kevin L]

26 minutes ago, PCP63 said:

This is why Erhardt-Perkins' way of calling plays is far more superior. These days, you can get just as much specificity with just a couple of words. Needless complication with that WCO sh*t.

Players remember concepts fairly well. Instead of saying "X Blast 2, Megaman Johnny Ray 6, Y Split Z Banana 4", just say, "Ghost Tosser". 

Totally agree, although considering how inexperienced most of our players are, it might be necessary to include the extra verbiage so that everyone knows exactly what they're doing.

[PCP63]

1 minute ago, Kevin L said:

Totally agree, although considering how inexperienced most of our players are, it might be necessary to include the extra verbiage so that everyone knows exactly what they're doing.

I mean, we have young players, but these guys are still 20+. If my HS kids can understand conceptual plays, NFL guys can.

[BCJet]

14 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Hack was chock full of excuses in that Gruden Camp thing.

Full of excuses or reasons - those are 2 different things.

Have you ever in your life heard of a coach come into a situation with an experienced QB like Hackenberg was and tell him to change his footwork?  That was/is one of the most odd coaching things Ive ever heard in my life.  Not saying that is completely why his accuracy was off, but it was definitely a reason, as opposed to an excuse.

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Full of excuses or reasons - those are 2 different things.

Have you ever in your life heard of a coach come into a situation with an experienced QB like Hackenberg was and tell him to change his footwork?  That was/is one of the most odd coaching things Ive ever heard in my life.  Not saying that is completely why his accuracy was off, but it was definitely a reason, as opposed to an excuse.

Hack was "experienced" as a sophomore in college, though? 

[jetspenguin]

If this really is "complicated" then it explains the lack of reps for Petty.

Sent from my SM-G955U using JetNation.com mobile app

[JohnnyLV]

The hatred of Hack is bewildering especially since so many loved Fitzshiitrick who was the worst QB in the NFL, but all of his mistakes were somehow OK.

This is a complete crap article.

First, of all NO ONE has suggested that Hack is struggling learning the offense or learning the verbiage. Wanting to practice it is NOT the same as not being able to understand it.

Second of all Cimini intentionally cherry picked the analyst that would back up his basesless conjecture. Miller is a weenie, and his QB opinions are completely influenced by all his own experience as a QB. He ALWAYS wants the veteran QB to play. If he were a HC, he would be Bowles on steroids. Second he is just assuming that Hack is struggling and somehow will "learn" from McClown holding a clipboard.

It is nonsense. In the real world, we consistently hear that Hack is an intellectual QB.

Hack WILL struggle with reads because of the complexity, but you know what fixes that? Reps and game experience. Not sitting on the sidelines watching a TERRIBLE journeyman QB. Why doesnt anyone mention that McClown pretty much sucks? And unlike Hack he has an established record of sucking moose cock as a starting QB

This is just an alarmist BS article with no basis in facts or you know journalism on any level. But it's great clickbait for the Hack hating trolls to slither out of their hiding spots like irradiated roaches and be their nauseating annoying selves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jetscrazey]

Totally agree that Petty has no shot in this system.  It's between McCown and Hackenberg.  My money is on McCown, which is pure stupidity but I think the coaches will do it anyway.

[thadude]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

The hatred of Hack is bewildering especially since so many loved Fitzshiitrick who was the worst QB in the NFL, but all of his mistakes were somehow OK.

This is a complete crap article.

First, of all NO ONE has suggested that Hack is struggling learning the offense or learning the verbiage. Wanting to practice it is NOT the same as not being able to understand it.

Second of all Cimini intentionally cherry picked the analyst that would back up his basesless conjecture. Miller is a weenie, and his QB opinions are completely influenced by all his own experience as a QB. He ALWAYS wants the veteran QB to play. If he were a HC, he would be Bowles on steroids. Second he is just assuming that Hack is struggling and somehow will "learn" from McClown holding a clipboard.

It is nonsense. In the real world, we consistently hear that Hack is an intellectual QB.

Hack WILL struggle with reads because of the complexity, but you know what fixes that? Reps and game experience. Not sitting on the sidelines watching a TERRIBLE journeyman QB. Why doesnt anyone mention that McClown pretty much sucks? And unlike Hack he has an established record of sucking moose cock as a starting QB

This is just an alarmist BS article with no basis in facts or you know journalism on any level. But it's great clickbait for the Hack hating trolls to slither out of their hiding spots like irradiated roaches and be their nauseating annoying selves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Hack pick actually set this franchise back several years 

[Joejet]

38 minutes ago, thadude said:

The Hack pick actually set this franchise back several years 

I have to disagree with this statement.  Hack was a second round pick not a 1st rounder.  They weren't going to take a QB at 6 this year Hack or no Hack because there wasn't any QB worthy.  If he doesn't show anything the Jets should be in prime position in 2018 for one of the strongest QB classes in years.

[T0mShane]

Remember when Hackenberg had back to back days in camp where no one mentioned his feet.

[Beerfish]

The 4th rounder from the year before who is better than hack is being tossed into the dusty bin to make sure hack gets his 'shot'  Mccown is worse than fitzpatick

[southparkcpa]

5 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I thought the one thing this guy had going for him is that he was very smart and played in a pro offense out of college and he just had a red shirt year to get used to the complexities of nfl offenses.

The excuse mongering is starting up good and early this year.

Jets and complex do not belong in same sentence..... 

[long suffering jets fan]

I don't know about this Morton guy.  The dude is screaming at the top of his lungs all training camp.  He uses complex play calling on a young team.  He regularly berates players.  This is not something you see with some of the more successful organizations these days, it points more to dysfunction. 

[Barkus]

1 minute ago, long suffering jets fan said:

I don't know about this Morton guy.  The dude is screaming at the top of his lungs all training camp.  He uses complex play calling on a young team.  He regularly be-rates players.  This is not something you see with some of the more successful organizations these days, it more points to dysfunction. 

It is at least a little concerning for sure. it hasn't  even been a week of camp yet, so obviously early. Would hope there is some improvement by next week and they seem semi-functional by the the first pre-season game. I hope this doesn't become a Sanchez-sporano redux and the offense goes the entire preseason without scoring a touchdown!

[ASH1962]

5 hours ago, Jetster said:

We seem to be the only place where everything is too COMPLICATED for our QBs,lol. I was told when the Jets drafted Hackenberg that even Bill Obrien called him a "smart" QB. So, if it turns out Hackenberg sucks is it because everyone around him is stupid or Morton & Bates can't coach for sh*t?

So f*cking sick of the excuses on this team! Mo can't play cause he's coming back from injury, Sheldons playing out of position, Lee is too small (like 2/3 pounds difference from Wagner & others), ASJ is dumb, and on and on and on the excuses go including the damn coaches! This team & organization are filled with excuses. 

Thats why I'm so excited about this total rebuild, no one can hide behind any excuses. They're all exposed down to their f*cking boxers! Bowles either motivates & they play hard or they don't, in wins and losses doesn't matter. Morton & Bates either coach Hack or Petty up or they don't. They either develop & show signs of being an NFL QB or they don't. Rogers either gets his head out of his azz with this defense or he doesn't & we see the same bend & break defense we witnessed last year giving up crazy big plays, guys WIDE OPEN, and not getting off the field on 3rd down. 

Hell, even Kotite, Rex, and Herman Edwards had some success with loaded rosters filled with veterans but the rubber really hits the road when your asked to show IMPROVEMENT over the course of a season even if you lose a bunch of games.

Gonna be fun to watch.

Oh great post, I agree a million percent. I wish "Dick" Cimini would keep his speculative opinions to himself. This is a very exciting time to be a Jet fan believe it or not, HC notwithstanding. We have lots of young hungry players on this roster and the last thing I want to read is anything being too complicated for them, that is plain ridiculous. Anyone has doubts about Hack's football IQ go here ...

 

[ZachEY]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Remember when Hackenberg had back to back days in camp where no one mentioned his feet.

Rex remembers.

[ZachEY]

Alternatively, maybe Hackenberg just isn't good at football?