Josh Allen

[Jetster]

I readily admit that I don't watch college football but I was watching NFL total access repeat & they had Willie McGinnest & another ex-NFLer (can't remember who it was), and they had all of the QBs photos who are supposedly the top picks. 

Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield, Allen & Jackson.

So the host asks, out of these players who do you believe ends up eventually being the best NFL Quarterback. BOTH, took some time before answering & BOTH agreed it would be Josh Allen. I've only seen really negative posts about this guy from most Jet fans. I mean we have fans on this site who have stated they will cut ties with the Jets if they take Allen, lol.

So my question is this, why do so many scouts, ex-NFL coaches & players like those 2 last night think this guy might turn out to be a better NFL QB than anyone on that list? I'm just perplexed by the hatred on this particular site. Because he just might be our pick. 

[nycdan]

Because some Jet fans apparently know more than any and all of the people who do this for a living.  And they know it with the certainty that only complete fanaticism bestows.  There's always a certain number of people dead-set against anything the Jets do or don't do.  The measure is in how often those who were wrong (and I have had those moments) show up to own it after the fact.

As for Allen, there has been a lot of rumination that DEN, and Elway in particular, love the big, big-armed QB types and that Allen could very well land there ahead of our pick.  Just as we have our big flop in Hack, they have had two in Osweiller and then Lynch.  It'll be interesting to see if they can put their past behind them and still pick another one.

[Lil O]

I was wondering the same thing.  I know that accuracy is one of the main concerns with Allen, that he just has a great "Fast Ball".  However when watching the Senior Bowl, I thought he looked great.  He made some really impressive touch passes for TDs.  And Daniel Jerimiah and Mike Mayock were salivating.  It will be interesting to see what happens at the combine, but I also think that he might end up our pick.....McCown/Allen/Hackenburg

 

[T0mShane]

15 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I readily admit that I don't watch college football but I was watching NFL total access repeat & they had Willie McGinnest & another ex-NFLer (can't remember who it was), and they had all of the QBs photos who are supposedly the top picks. 

Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield, Allen & Jackson.

So the host asks, out of these players who do you believe ends up eventually being the best NFL Quarterback. BOTH, took some time before answering & BOTH agreed it would be Josh Allen. I've only seen really negative posts about this guy from most Jet fans. I mean we have fans on this site who have stated they will cut ties with the Jets if they take Allen, lol.

So my question is this, why do so many scouts, ex-NFL coaches & players like those 2 last night think this guy might turn out to be a better NFL QB than anyone on that list? I'm just perplexed by the hatred on this particular site. Because he just might be our pick. 

It’s because the first time they’ve ever seen Josh Allen was when they were handed that headshot of him. 

[JetFaninMI]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’s because the first time they’ve ever seen Josh Allen was when they were handed that headshot of him. 

[Lil O]

I think I read that the Browns might have a crush on Allen....but who knows...so many smoke screens this time of year.

 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Allen has the prototypical physical traits 6'3''-6'5'' 220-235 of "The" NFL QB - just like hackenburg. Other similarities;  both under 60% career completion rate, neither won a "big" game in college, both can perform well with little to no pressure like the Senior Bowl or a private workout... 

but Size/Strength is only part of the puzzle;  can they process the game at NFL speed, anticipation and accuracy throwing to smaller targets in the NFL, read a defense, feel the pass rush, lead a team to victory - all reasons Brees, Wilson, etc... have won in this league and reason for Jets fans to be concerned with Allen

 

[nycdan]

There is a certain 'Chad Pennington-esque' thing going on here...

 

       

[JetFaninMI]

[JetFaninMI]

[Jetster]

11 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’s because the first time they’ve ever seen Josh Allen was when they were handed that headshot of him. 

I don't believe this at all. McGinnest is all in since he retired. Reports from the combine, has many, many insider friends & is very knowledgeable guy. 

I don't think I can remember a QB with such differing opinions on him. I watched the senior bowl & he threw a couple TDs with beautiful touch on them? 

I can tell you this, Baker Mayfield looked like a little kid compared to Allen. Kinda of like a Big Ben, Doug Flutie comparison to those 2 guys. I'll say it now, because of his size, arm, and how he can move Josh Allen WILL NOT be available when they Jets pick at 6. This league can't turn away from POTENTIAL & that happens every year in the draft. With so many scouts & ex coaches, players touting this guy & at 6'-4" strong, fast, rocket arm, no way in hell he drops to 6 in a Quartback starved league.

[ZachEY]

What a refreshing and fascinating new topic

[T0mShane]

This is how those shows work, btw.

 

—The on-air talent sits in on a production meeting where they’re told what the topics will be, what positions they should take, and what products they need to push. In that meeting, they workshop their hot takes so they meet both network and advertiser approval. The people conceiving of this material and overseeing this inception-style thought-engineering are a group of shlubby white 26 year-olds who cull these topics from quantifying Twitter hashtags and Facebook “likes.”

 

—During the actual filming of these shows, each on-air guy has a giant earpiece jammed into their upstage ear. Watch these dudes when it’s not their turn to speak: they’re listening and nodding, not to the guy speaking, but to one of the 26 year-old shlubs who are feeding them a response, with a name and a relevant stat. So, what you see on the air is this:

Host: Man, how about those Chargers?

 

LaDainian Tomlinson: My old team! They really gave it to the Niners last week, piling up 378 yards on offense and sacking Blaine Gabbert six times.”

 

Willie McGinest: And let’s not forget the special teams. Their punter [punter name] is averaging over 45 yards per kick!

 

Host: Good point, Willie. And that’s why [punter name] is our Reese’s Kicking King of the Week. Reese’s is a proud sponsor of...

[Philc1]

He’s not falling to us at 6. 

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I don't believe this at all. McGinnest is all in since he retired. Reports from the combine, has many, many insider friends & is very knowledgeable guy. 

I don't think I can remember a QB with such differing opinions on him. I watched the senior bowl & he threw a couple TDs with beautiful touch on them? 

I can tell you this, Baker Mayfield looked like a little kid compared to Allen. Kinda of like a Big Ben, Doug Flutie comparison to those 2 guys. I'll say it now, because of his size, arm, and how he can move Josh Allen WILL NOT be available when they Jets pick at 6. This league can't turn away from POTENTIAL & that happens every year in the draft. With so many scouts & ex coaches, players touting this guy & at 6'-4" strong, fast, rocket arm, no way in hell he drops to 6 in a Quartback starved league.

Horrible QBs get drafted high every year, and for exactly the reasons you mention here.

[prime21]

He has the biggest potential but also carries the tag of perhaps the biggest bust.   I agree, many Jet Fans seem to go against the guys who do this for a living but with out these people the boards would be boring.   If Allen is available at 6 it would be great.  Either we have Cousins and can perhaps trade down with a team that wants him, or we select him and hope McCown is signed to tutor him.  He could be as bad as Hack but I’m sure they will let him play regardless.  

[Philc1]

2 minutes ago, prime21 said:

He has the biggest potential but also carries the tag of perhaps the biggest bust.   I agree, many Jet Fans seem to go against the guys who do this for a living but with out these people the boards would be boring.   If Allen is available at 6 it would be great.  Either we have Cousins and can perhaps trade down with a team that wants him, or we select him and hope McCown is signed to tutor him.  He could be as bad as Hack but I’m sure they will let him play regardless.  

If Allen was 6 feet tall, had a documented drinking problem, got all his stats in college playing in a system in front of a great OL and played badly at the senior bowl most of the posters here would be drooling over him

[varjet]

18 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Horrible QBs get drafted high every year, and for exactly the reasons you mention here.

I just don't understand how the various pundits keep lauding QBs who "look the part" when, as a general matter, its the QBs who can process the game who are the ones who are successful.  The NFL is littered with failed QBs who looked the part.   

But yes, when you see how high Sanchez, Bortles, Gabbert and others were drafted, it would appear that Allen is heading to the same place.  

Based on last year, I would have that a QB that needed more work/development would go more 10-20 than top 6, but given what people are saying about the opportunities missed in last year's draft, yes Allen can go very high, but it would not surprise me to if Allen is there when the Jets pick.  

Look at what QB's cost.  McCown cost $8mm last year with the bonuses.  A top 5 rookie QB is like $6+mm/year.  I have a tough time seeing a Darnold, Rosen or Mayfield not performing as well as a mediocre NFL QB.  Allen though, could bust.  The accuracy thing is just deadly.  When you look at how bad the Hack experience was, how do you pick a QB that high who may not be accurate in an NFL offense.

But a rookie QB, or any QB for that matter, will be a product of the coaches, organization and players around him.  FWIW, from what I remember, KC has always run timing/WCO offenses with more accurate QBs.  I am not believing that Dorsey would take Allen-he likes players from big schools.  Darnold is the safest pick there.  I do think Allen's best chance of success would be in more of an Ehrhardt/drop back style offense.   The Jets continue to get lulled into the WCO.  I am not sure that Allen will be able to step in and operate in the offense that the Jets are trying to build.  I can see Darnold, Mayfield or Cousins do much better at it.  

Watch the Bills trade up for Allen, and watch him do well there.   The Jets, NY and their fan base will eat a QB like Allen alive.  In a way the jerk vibe that Rosen and Mayview exude make them perfect for the Jets.  

[Jetster]

19 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Horrible QBs get drafted high every year, and for exactly the reasons you mention here.

He could be Ryan Leaf or he could be the 2nd coming of Carson Wentz or a Big Ben. What we do know if we pick him...Ryan Leaf.. Cleveland...Ryan Leaf...Giants...Big Ben, lol.

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, varjet said:

I just don't understand how the various pundits keep lauding QBs who "look the part" when, as a general matter, its the QBs who can process the game who are the ones who are successful.  The NFL is littered with failed QBs who looked the part.   

But yes, when you see how high Sanchez, Bortles, Gabbert and others were drafted, it would appear that Allen is heading to the same place.  

Based on last year, I would have that a QB that needed more work/development would go more 10-20 than top 6, but given what people are saying about the opportunities missed in last year's draft, yes Allen can go very high, but it would not surprise me to if Allen is there when the Jets pick.  

Look at what QB's cost.  McCown cost $8mm last year with the bonuses.  A top 5 rookie QB is like $6+mm/year.  I have a tough time seeing a Darnold, Rosen or Mayfield not performing as well as a mediocre NFL QB.  Allen though, could bust.  The accuracy thing is just deadly.  When you look at how bad the Hack experience was, how do you pick a QB that high who may not be accurate in an NFL offense.

But a rookie QB, or any QB for that matter, will be a product of the coaches, organization and players around him.  FWIW, from what I remember, KC has always run timing/WCO offenses with more accurate QBs.  I am not believing that Dorsey would take Allen-he likes players from big schools.  Darnold is the safest pick there.  I do think Allen's best chance of success would be in more of an Ehrhardt/drop back style offense.   The Jets continue to get lulled into the WCO.  I am not sure that Allen will be able to step in and operate in the offense that the Jets are trying to build.  I can see Darnold, Mayfield or Cousins do much better at it.  

Watch the Bills trade up for Allen, and watch him do well there.   The Jets, NY and their fan base will eat a QB like Allen alive.  In a way the jerk vibe that Rosen and Mayview exude make them perfect for the Jets.  

Agree with all of the above, but mostly with the “jerk vibe” piece at the end. There’s nothing to gain by trying to be friends with every fan and media member in the New York market: they’re going to sh*t on you regardless. Eli Manning is a saint who won two Super Bowls during an era where the Patriots were cheating their asses off in support of a trash-human QB and HC and the media in NY treat him like he’s the Caucasian Geno Smith. I saw an interview with Allen where he was asked about being distracted by “all the media attention” he faced this year in Wyoming—WYOMING—and he answered that it was “a challenge.” FOH. Mayfield and Rosen would be rock stars here, even if they sucked. And if they didn’t suck? Look out.

[dbatesman]

5 minutes ago, Jetster said:

He could be Ryan Leaf or he could be the 2nd coming of Carson Wentz or a Big Ben. 

There’s just no way to know

[HawkeyeJet]

I will say this about Josh Allen.  If he comes in and is asked to be a "prototypical" drop back passer, I don't think he has any shot.

BUT, if he goes to a team that is willing to utilize his ability to move and allow him to do some RPOs like Foles did with Eagles, and allow him to take shots down the field, I do think he could be very successful.

This will sound crazy and I'll likely get mocked, but that's ok.  I think his accuracy is not as bad as his completion percentage might indicate.  I think he does have touch issues, where he tries to throw everything as hard as he can, but I watch him and don't see a wildly inaccurate thrower like Hack.

  I think his success will have to come in chunk plays.  He may never be a 60% completion guy, or a guy that can be surgical in the short passing game.  I do think he could be a big play QB.  That's what he will need to do, make the 54% completions he does make hurt.

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, Jetster said:

He could be Ryan Leaf or he could be the 2nd coming of Carson Wentz or a Big Ben. What we do know if we pick him...Ryan Leaf.. Cleveland...Ryan Leaf...Giants...Big Ben, lol.

Wentz (~63%)) didn’t have the accuracy issues and Leaf (55%) did. It seems to be a pretty reliable predictor. Allen is at 56% and just missed a throwing net by three feet at the Senior Bowl.

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I will say this about Josh Allen.  If he comes in and is asked to be a "prototypical" drop back passer, I don't think he has any shot.

BUT, if he goes to a team that is willing to utilize his ability to move and allow him to do some RPOs like Foles did with Eagles, and allow him to take shots down the field, I do think he could be very successful.

This will sound crazy and I'll likely get mocked, but that's ok.  I think his accuracy is not as bad as his completion percentage might indicate.  I think he does have touch issues, where he tries to throw everything as hard as he can, but I watch him and don't see a wildly inaccurate thrower like Hack.

  I think his success will have to come in chunk plays.  He may never be a 60% completion guy, or a guy that can be surgical in the short passing game.  I do think he could be a big play QB.  That's what he will need to do, make the 54% completions he does make hurt.

I think even the worst NFL QBs will make a few highlight-reel plays if you give them an opportunity, but good offenses are the ones where the QB completes the ball consistently on third and eight. If your QB can’t do that, there aren’t enough chunk plays in the world that can save your team.

[Jetster]

50 minutes ago, gEYno said:

What a refreshing and fascinating new topic

Than pass this thread & comment on another topic bonehead.

[HawkeyeJet]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think even the worst NFL QBs will make a few highlight-reel plays if you give them an opportunity, but good offenses are the ones where the QB completes the ball consistently on third and eight. If your QB can’t do that, there aren’t enough chunk plays in the world that can save your team.

That is probably true.  I don't want Allen, but I don't think he's as bad is made out to be.  I think the NFL offense is changing, and 5 years from now, the days of guys like Brees and Brady who are stationary QBs who dissect people in the short passing game will basically be extinct.

What you say about 3 and 8 is valid though.  He's not going to be someone you can count on to always be moving the chains in those scenarios.  The hope I suppose with guys like him or Cam Newton or whoever is that their total physical package keeps you out of 3 and long more often than not.

Im probably wrong, I usually am, but it seems to me there is a change happening in the NFL on how offense is played, and a guy like Darnold or Rosen who are statues in the pocket are going to be the outlier rather than the norm before too long.  It would just be nice for the Jets to be ahead of the curve for once rather than chasing to catch up.  Not saying I know Allen will be that for sure, I don't know, but I would not surprised at all if 8 years from now he and Mayfield are the studs and Rosen and Darnold are the ones who are considered the disappointments.

[slats]

8 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Than pass this thread & comment on another topic bonehead.

No need for this. 

[pajet]

30 minutes ago, Jetster said:

He could be Ryan Leaf or he could be the 2nd coming of Carson Wentz or a Big Ben. What we do know if we pick him...Ryan Leaf.. Cleveland...Ryan Leaf...Giants...Big Ben, lol.

THIS

[Larz]

I find myself going back to accorsis scouting report on eli

What he looked for was

Velocity, touch, poise, vision, carry an overmatched team, stand in the pocket waiting for someone to get open and take a hit

The reason his report says to trade up and get him is "magic"

What's interesting is eli threw 3 picks, Ernie blames him for 2, and just writes he has a lot to learn

Fans forget this. These kids are not polished products.

I think this describes darnold however and not Josh

I fear scouts are forgiving accuracy issues because he looks like a franchise QB

 

 

 

[nycdan]

21 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Wentz (~63%)) didn’t have the accuracy issues and Leaf (55%) did. It seems to be a pretty reliable predictor. Allen is at 56% and just missed a throwing net by three feet at the Senior Bowl.

Leaf's problems were far greater than just his accuracy.  He had a bad attitude from the day he was drafted, partied harder than he worked at football, you name it.  He was Manziel 1.0.  Those guys you can see busting a mile away usually (occasionally you get one that succeeds in spite of it).  

[Long Island Leprechaun]

1 hour ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Allen has the prototypical physical traits 6'3''-6'5'' 220-235 of "The" NFL QB - just like hackenburg. Other similarities;  both under 60% career completion rate, neither won a "big" game in college, both can perform well with little to no pressure like the Senior Bowl or a private workout... 

but Size/Strength is only part of the puzzle;  can they process the game at NFL speed, anticipation and accuracy throwing to smaller targets in the NFL, read a defense, feel the pass rush, lead a team to victory - all reasons Brees, Wilson, etc... have won in this league and reason for Jets fans to be concerned with Allen

 

Well said. Allen might be another "siren" luring some QB coach to the rocks. He's a real project for a high pick.

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

That is probably true.  I don't want Allen, but I don't think he's as bad is made out to be.  I think the NFL offense is changing, and 5 years from now, the days of guys like Brees and Brady who are stationary QBs who dissect people in the short passing game will basically be extinct.

What you say about 3 and 8 is valid though.  He's not going to be someone you can count on to always be moving the chains in those scenarios.  The hope I suppose with guys like him or Cam Newton or whoever is that their total physical package keeps you out of 3 and long more often than not.

Im probably wrong, I usually am, but it seems to me there is a change happening in the NFL on how offense is played, and a guy like Darnold or Rosen who are statues in the pocket are going to be the outlier rather than the norm before too long.  It would just be nice for the Jets to be ahead of the curve for once rather than chasing to catch up.  Not saying I know Allen will be that for sure, I don't know, but I would not surprised at all if 8 years from now he and Mayfield are the studs and Rosen and Darnold are the ones who are considered the disappointments.

Good post, and I’m in the same boat. I keep “evaluating” QBs based on criteria I’ve accumulated from the seventies and eighties and, as such, still refuse to believe that guys like Watson, Mariota, and Lamar Jackson are long-term viable starters. Hell, the Super Bowl was just played between two QBs that are immobile as it gets, but I don’t think those guys are being produced in large enough numbers anymore to make drafting them viable long-term, either. 

[Jetster]

4 minutes ago, slats said:

No need for this. 

That guy adds nothing. Does he want us to talk about whether Qvale will keep his backup spot? Some threads get too long & new ones need to be added for more perspective on similar topics. Isn't every topic familiar when discussing the Jets? 

I'll refrain from the insults but some posters deserve any & all insults that come their way.

[Barkus]

1 hour ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Allen has the prototypical physical traits 6'3''-6'5'' 220-235 of "The" NFL QB - just like hackenburg. Other similarities;  both under 60% career completion rate, neither won a "big" game in college, both can perform well with little to no pressure like the Senior Bowl or a private workout... 

but Size/Strength is only part of the puzzle;  can they process the game at NFL speed, anticipation and accuracy throwing to smaller targets in the NFL, read a defense, feel the pass rush, lead a team to victory - all reasons Brees, Wilson, etc... have won in this league and reason for Jets fans to be concerned with Allen

 

Hackenberg beat bc in the pinstripe bowl throwing for 371yds 4td no picks as a sophomore. Allen has never had a game like that, even vs  inferior competition.

[Larz]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Good post, and I’m in the same boat. I keep “evaluating” QBs based on criteria I’ve accumulated from the seventies and eighties and, as such, still refuse to believe that guys like Watson, Mariota, and Lamar Jackson are long-term viable starters. Hell, the Super Bowl was just played between two QBs that are immobile as it gets, but I don’t think those guys are being produced in large enough numbers anymore to make drafting them viable long-term, either. 

would this be an awkward time to tell Hawkeye that people in Iowa suck at football?