Josh Allen

[Grandy]

18 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Jets fans are going to spend 4 months debating Josh Allen and then he's not even going to be there at 6 

Best case scenario.

[ZachEY]

54 minutes ago, Jetster said:

There has actually been some good discussion on here if you'd like to chime in. Otherwise you can chime in with your little doodie doo, poopie pants, I know I am but what you childish retorts.

Now this is an interesting thread you should probably create.

[JoJoTownsell1]

4 hours ago, Jetster said:

I readily admit that I don't watch college football but I was watching NFL total access repeat & they had Willie McGinnest & another ex-NFLer (can't remember who it was), and they had all of the QBs photos who are supposedly the top picks. 

Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield, Allen & Jackson.

So the host asks, out of these players who do you believe ends up eventually being the best NFL Quarterback. BOTH, took some time before answering & BOTH agreed it would be Josh Allen. I've only seen really negative posts about this guy from most Jet fans. I mean we have fans on this site who have stated they will cut ties with the Jets if they take Allen, lol.

So my question is this, why do so many scouts, ex-NFL coaches & players like those 2 last night think this guy might turn out to be a better NFL QB than anyone on that list? I'm just perplexed by the hatred on this particular site. Because he just might be our pick. 

It's all about fans fearing another Hackenberg. It's a  legit concern, but Allen is nothing like Hackenberg. He is a far better prospect which is why Hack dropped to the 2nd round (maybe further if we didn't take him) and Allen isn't dropping passed the 10th overall. 

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

It's all about fans fearing another Hackenberg. It's a  legit concern, but Allen is nothing like Hackenberg. He is a far better prospect which is why Hack dropped to the 2nd round (maybe further if we didn't take him) and Allen isn't dropping passed the 10th overall. 

 

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, nycdan said:

When you have dozens or hundreds of people guessing but claiming to be certain, some of them will turn out to be right and their random success will convince them they are smarter than everyone else.  That's what's really happening.

Let me give you an example.  Old stock scammers used to send out letters to 20,000 people, half of which were told a particular stock would go up and the other half were told it would go down.  For half of them, the letter was right.  Then they split the group again and did the same thing with a different stock.  Now you have 5,000 people who saw this company make two correct predictions.  Finally a third time and now you have 2,500 people who, if they aren't onto the scam, think this company is brilliant.  Then comes the pitch.  Let us invest for you.

This is what happens here.  Some people scream that Deshaun Watson will bust.  Others scream he will be a superstar.  Everyone is sure.  The ones who guess wrong never mention it again but the ones who guess right shout it to the heavens saying the KNEW it.  Nobody knows anything.  We all just make guesses based on any number of factors.  I'm tired of people being sure about this stuff.  Say it's your strong opinion and celebrate your wins.  But don't tell me that fans 'know better' than anyone else.  Yeah, some of the so-called professionals are complete idiots, and few of them actually know that much more than any of us, but it's mostly the numbers game that makes forum users look so smart.

A lot of the fans in this site would have drafted better than both idzik and mac.  In your post above you have refined your argument by saying there are dummies that do it for a living and adding all fans not just the keener fans, it is what you should have done in the 1st place.

I'm a fan of the Edmonton oilers and you could literally take a hobo off the streets and do a better job than the front office has done over the past dozen years.

[NoBowles]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

JOSH ALLEN IS SUPER WHITE AND CAN BE PARADED IN FRONT OF YOUR SUPER WHITE PSL HOLDERS AT A COCKTAIL MIXER WHILE LAMAR JACKSON IS A SUPER BLACK DUDE FROM POMPANO BEACH THAT DOESN’T ENUNCIATE LIKE A BRITISH NOBLE.

If HRC was the rich white owner of a football team, who would she rather for her QB? Jackson or Allen?

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

It's all about fans fearing another Hackenberg. It's a  legit concern, but Allen is nothing like Hackenberg. He is a far better prospect which is why Hack dropped to the 2nd round (maybe further if we didn't take him) and Allen isn't dropping passed the 10th overall. 

Hackenberg shouldn't have seen his name on the tracker till post-4th round. Allen shouldn't be in the conversation till day 2.  He hasn't earned a top selection, in numbers or in theory. 

[Paradis]

2 hours ago, nycdan said:

When you have dozens or hundreds of people guessing but claiming to be certain, some of them will turn out to be right and their random success will convince them they are smarter than everyone else.  That's what's really happening.

 

No... I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you, 100%.  There's two things happening in fandom land. 

1. You have sea of posters/fans who spam pick players. If you look hard enough you'll find fans of all 10 popular QB choices (for example). So naturally when the 2-3 blow up down the road, those people show up with -- "I can draft better"... that phenomenon goes without saying.. but that's not what you're referring to.
2. There's a select group of fans who genuinely invest themselves in college, and the draft and that whole "thing". On average, we do better than some teams. Why?... I'd argue it's combination of too many cooks in the kitchen, confusing decision makers and diluting the focus. 2ndly (and more importantly) they stop listening to their gut. They ignore or inhibit their ability to "THIN SLICE" players. They over-analyze and complicated their own process. 

Malcolm Gladwell has a great book called "BLINK" that tackles this subject, and it's amazing relevant to scouting. I've brought it up this year a few times as I'm beginning to see it on the big stage. 

[jetsons]

6 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

2018 Draft #6 pick - Baker Mayfield QB, New York Jets

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, Paradis said:

No... I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you, 100%.  There's two things happening in fandom land. 

1. You have sea of posters/fans who spam pick players. If you look hard enough you'll find fans of all 10 popular QB choices (for example). So naturally when the 2-3 blow up down the road, those people show up with -- "I can draft better"... that phenomenon goes without saying.. but that's not what you're referring to.
2. There's a select group of fans who genuinely invest themselves in college, and the draft and that whole "thing". On average, we do better than some teams. Why?... I'd argue it's combination of too many cooks in the kitchen, confusing decision makers and diluting the focus. 2ndly (and more importantly) they stop listening to their gut. They ignore or inhibit their ability to "THIN SLICE" players. They over-analyze and complicated their own process. 

Malcolm Gladwell has a great book called "BLINK" that tackles this subject, and it's amazing relevant to scouting. I've brought it up this year a few times as I'm beginning to see it on the big stage. 

What also happens, imo, is that personnel guys spend decades toiling in sh*tty, low-paid scouting/coaching gigs working 100 hour weeks trying to get to the point where they might be considered for a GM job one day, and then when they get that job, they know they have three years to find a QB so they fall back on just finding the dude who looks the most like Tom Brady/Phil Simms/Peyton Manning because gambling on one that looks/produces otherwise—and fails— is inexplicable to their current (and future) employer, who is a 75-year old billionaire who waxes poetically about watching YA Tittle win mad championships back in the 50’s.

[Warfish]

6 hours ago, Jetster said:

I readily admit that I don't watch college football but I was watching NFL total access repeat & they had Willie McGinnest & another ex-NFLer (can't remember who it was), and they had all of the QBs photos who are supposedly the top picks. 

Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield, Allen & Jackson.

So the host asks, out of these players who do you believe ends up eventually being the best NFL Quarterback. BOTH, took some time before answering & BOTH agreed it would be Josh Allen. I've only seen really negative posts about this guy from most Jet fans. I mean we have fans on this site who have stated they will cut ties with the Jets if they take Allen, lol.

So my question is this, why do so many scouts, ex-NFL coaches & players like those 2 last night think this guy might turn out to be a better NFL QB than anyone on that list? I'm just perplexed by the hatred on this particular site. Because he just might be our pick. 

If "so many" think he will be the best, why is he not the uncontested #1 pick this draft?

Answer that, and maybe we have something to talk about.

[BurnleyJet]

Willie McGinnest lol

[Paradis]

 

[adb280z]

50 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

It's a good thing that NFL receivers aren't small nets.

[HessStation]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

1. Browns: Mayfield or Darnold

2. Giants: Rosen

3. Colts: Chubb, Barkley, or trade down to someone coming up for Mayfield(?)

4. Browns: Roquan Smith, Chubb, Barkley 

5. Broncos: Chubb, Minkah, Nelson, (assuming they get Cousins)

6. Jets: 

Those highbrow dicks are not gonna taken Rosen. No way

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, jetsons said:

2018 Draft #6 pick - Baker Mayfield QB, New York Jets

We cannot draft a guy that wears a gold cowboy hat,  i have to put my foot down in this one.

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Those highbrow dicks are not gonna taken Rosen. No way

The co-owners of the Giants are a huge Dem donor and a Hollywood producer. Rosen to the Giants is fait accompli.

[nycdan]

2 hours ago, Paradis said:

No... I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you, 100%.  There's two things happening in fandom land. 

1. You have sea of posters/fans who spam pick players. If you look hard enough you'll find fans of all 10 popular QB choices (for example). So naturally when the 2-3 blow up down the road, those people show up with -- "I can draft better"... that phenomenon goes without saying.. but that's not what you're referring to.
2. There's a select group of fans who genuinely invest themselves in college, and the draft and that whole "thing". On average, we do better than some teams. Why?... I'd argue it's combination of too many cooks in the kitchen, confusing decision makers and diluting the focus. 2ndly (and more importantly) they stop listening to their gut. They ignore or inhibit their ability to "THIN SLICE" players. They over-analyze and complicated their own process. 

Malcolm Gladwell has a great book called "BLINK" that tackles this subject, and it's amazing relevant to scouting. I've brought it up this year a few times as I'm beginning to see it on the big stage. 

I've met Malcolm (used to work with his publisher).  Blink is a brilliant book and yes, definitely appropriate to this discussion.  I work in data/analytics and strategy so I completely get your point there and I don't think we are disagreeing that much. 

I accept that there are a few amateurs who invest themselves in research and have a lot to add to the debate.  Just as most analysts probably don't do nearly as much of the hard work as they should.  But I also think amateurs have a tendency to think they are smarter than they really are because they selectively filter (subconsciously) what they compare themselves to.  Do any of us go back and look at every pick and prediction we made 2 years later?  Maybe a few, but probably not many.

Agreed there are a few teams out there that my goldfish would do better at drafting then.  In every sport.  That is an interesting study in itself why some organizations are so horrible through a succession of GMs and scouting departments.  

[JetFaninMI]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

We cannot draft a guy that wears a gold cowboy hat,  i have to put my foot down in this one.

Using Macc's logic that's probably the only reason why they draft him!

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, nycdan said:

I've met Malcolm (used to work with his publisher).  Blink is a brilliant book and yes, definitely appropriate to this discussion.  I work in data/analytics and strategy so I completely get your point there and I don't think we are disagreeing that much. 

I accept that there are a few amateurs who invest themselves in research and have a lot to add to the debate.  Just as most analysts probably don't do nearly as much of the hard work as they should.  But I also think amateurs have a tendency to think they are smarter than they really are because they selectively filter (subconsciously) what they compare themselves to.  Do any of us go back and look at every pick and prediction we made 2 years later?  Maybe a few, but probably not many.

Agreed there are a few teams out there that my goldfish would do better at drafting then.  In every sport.  That is an interesting study in itself why some organizations are so horrible through a succession of GMs and scouting departments.  

Cool, how was Malcolm to meet? I'd love to have a guy like that on phone for dinner parties, lol. 

Yea, i can't disagree with anything you said there. I guess I was referring to that select group of people, who probably don't represent a statistically significant pool of individuals in the large scope of football fans... within that group however, i think people would be surprised at the results if they starting taking a close look

[jets rooter]

don't be surprised if the jets don't draft a q.b. in the first round.past history shows that the jets are unpredictable.

[NoBowles]

1 minute ago, jets rooter said:

don't be surprised if the jets don't draft a q.b. in the first round.past history shows that the jets are unpredictable.

Unpredictable?? Bowles has gotten everything he wants in the first round, and will again. Minkah!!

[Bruce Harper]

7 hours ago, sourceworx said:

I would love love LOVE it if we drafted Jackson. 

Certainly would make things interesting and exciting in the short term, if Bowles would put him in a game.  His highlight reel is extraordinarily entertaining.

[BCJet]

21 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

That is probably true.  I don't want Allen, but I don't think he's as bad is made out to be.  I think the NFL offense is changing, and 5 years from now, the days of guys like Brees and Brady who are stationary QBs who dissect people in the short passing game will basically be extinct.

What you say about 3 and 8 is valid though.  He's not going to be someone you can count on to always be moving the chains in those scenarios.  The hope I suppose with guys like him or Cam Newton or whoever is that their total physical package keeps you out of 3 and long more often than not.

Im probably wrong, I usually am, but it seems to me there is a change happening in the NFL on how offense is played, and a guy like Darnold or Rosen who are statues in the pocket are going to be the outlier rather than the norm before too long.  It would just be nice for the Jets to be ahead of the curve for once rather than chasing to catch up.  Not saying I know Allen will be that for sure, I don't know, but I would not surprised at all if 8 years from now he and Mayfield are the studs and Rosen and Darnold are the ones who are considered the disappointments.

I think you are correct about offenses/QBs evolving, but I think including Darnold and Brees in the conversation arent great examples.  I also agree with you about Allen, he will never be a 65% passer, who moves down the field using short area accuracy - his type of play is exactly like Cam Newton, who has only cracked 60% passing once in his career.  Allen will need to carry the ball a lot in the pros (he has the size and speed to do that), while hitting chunk plays down the field.  Can it happen, sure, I just think its a more difficult ask then it is to be a guy like Mayfield or Darnold who can win like Brees and Deshaun Watson did as the game changes.

I do agree that QBs like Brady and Rosen (one of the many reasons I dont want him) are going to start to be phased out.  You have to be mobile in todays NFL and given the rules with respect to PI and hitting defenseless WRs, its harder then ever to cover, so you are going to start to see even more spread type offenses, which is why Watson was able to be so successful early on last year.

Allen is more then just a strong arm, but at the same time, I think its too hard to teach someone touch and accuracy when you instead can take a cousins, darnold or mayfield who already have touch and accuracy and let them run your offense. 

[BCJet]

19 hours ago, nycdan said:

When you have dozens or hundreds of people guessing but claiming to be certain, some of them will turn out to be right and their random success will convince them they are smarter than everyone else.  That's what's really happening.

Let me give you an example.  Old stock scammers used to send out letters to 20,000 people, half of which were told a particular stock would go up and the other half were told it would go down.  For half of them, the letter was right.  Then they split the group again and did the same thing with a different stock.  Now you have 5,000 people who saw this company make two correct predictions.  Finally a third time and now you have 2,500 people who, if they aren't onto the scam, think this company is brilliant.  Then comes the pitch.  Let us invest for you.

This is what happens here.  Some people scream that Deshaun Watson will bust.  Others scream he will be a superstar.  Everyone is sure.  The ones who guess wrong never mention it again but the ones who guess right shout it to the heavens saying the KNEW it.  Nobody knows anything.  We all just make guesses based on any number of factors.  I'm tired of people being sure about this stuff.  Say it's your strong opinion and celebrate your wins.  But don't tell me that fans 'know better' than anyone else.  Yeah, some of the so-called professionals are complete idiots, and few of them actually know that much more than any of us, but it's mostly the numbers game that makes forum users look so smart.

I was against picking watson as I really thought his arm strength was too poor to allow him to be successful, and it appears I was wrong.  I tihnk the thing to take away from that is that the NFL offenses are moving more towards college, which is why a guy like mayfield should be a top 15 pick because everything he does well to date has a better change of translating, then what Josh Allen does well.

[Jetster]

1 hour ago, BCJet said:

I think you are correct about offenses/QBs evolving, but I think including Darnold and Brees in the conversation arent great examples.  I also agree with you about Allen, he will never be a 65% passer, who moves down the field using short area accuracy - his type of play is exactly like Cam Newton, who has only cracked 60% passing once in his career.  Allen will need to carry the ball a lot in the pros (he has the size and speed to do that), while hitting chunk plays down the field.  Can it happen, sure, I just think its a more difficult ask then it is to be a guy like Mayfield or Darnold who can win like Brees and Deshaun Watson did as the game changes.

I do agree that QBs like Brady and Rosen (one of the many reasons I dont want him) are going to start to be phased out.  You have to be mobile in todays NFL and given the rules with respect to PI and hitting defenseless WRs, its harder then ever to cover, so you are going to start to see even more spread type offenses, which is why Watson was able to be so successful early on last year.

Allen is more then just a strong arm, but at the same time, I think its too hard to teach someone touch and accuracy when you instead can take a cousins, darnold or mayfield who already have touch and accuracy and let them run your offense. 

There will NEVER be another Tom Brady. And by that I mean a QB so beloved by the NFL in general that the rules don't apply to him or his Oline like they do to most other QBs in this league. Granted Scarnechia might be a great Oline coach but if your gonna tell me this guy is SO GOOD he can take a bunch of no name late round guys & 1 above average LT in Nate Solder & literally STONE two of the best defensive in the NFL, have almost 90 pass attempts and not have 1 offensive holding, I've said it before, it's absolute bullsh*t, and proves that the NFL cares more about protecting Brady, creating exciting games & putting the most polarizing team into the Super Bowl which is the Patriots!

You don't think the NFL didn't love seeing that poll where everyone but New England was cheering for the Pats? That's WWF at its BEST! Create a Villian (Patriots), and match them with the ultimate underdogs (Eagles & Foles), and wallah, MAGIC! The New England Patriots were flagged 2 times in 60 minutes playing 2 of the top 5 defenses in football & only 1 flag was on the offense (illegal procedure call) 5 yards. The other 1 was a special teams flag, 5 yards vs the Jaguars. Buster Skrine averages 5 flags a game! Lol. 

Sorry, in the chaos that is NFL football & with all the grabbing, tugging, pushing, picking that goes on it's just impossible to achieve such perfection. We know this because we see the replays of their Oline holding, defenders grabbing, guys running through guys before the ball arrives like the Eagles 2 point conversion. But do you know what we ALWAYS SEE in a Patriot game? When they fall behind you'll always see a 3rd down incompletion & an ensuing flag for either holding or PI on the defense. You saw it vs the Jaguars & you saw it vs the Eagles. And, like the 2017 miraculous comeback vs the Falcons you NEVER SEE a holding flag on their Oline no matter how many times they throw the ball like the 49 passes he threw in the 2nd half of that Super Bowl. Magic.

[Greensleeves]

On 2/11/2018 at 10:01 AM, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Allen has the prototypical physical traits 6'3''-6'5'' 220-235 of "The" NFL QB - just like hackenburg. Other similarities;  both under 60% career completion rate, neither won a "big" game in college, both can perform well with little to no pressure like the Senior Bowl or a private workout... 

but Size/Strength is only part of the puzzle;  can they process the game at NFL speed, anticipation and accuracy throwing to smaller targets in the NFL, read a defense, feel the pass rush, lead a team to victory - all reasons Brees, Wilson, etc... have won in this league and reason for Jets fans to be concerned with Allen

 

He played really well in his biggest game, his bowl game. They basically won the game in the first half - I think he had 3 TDS. He also played really well in the Senior Bowl - his two biggest games as a QB. 

[Warfish]

20 hours ago, nycdan said:

This is what happens here.  Some people scream that Deshaun Watson will bust.  Others scream he will be a superstar.  Everyone is sure.  The ones who guess wrong never mention it again but the ones who guess right shout it to the heavens saying the KNEW it.

Speak for yourself mate.  I've owned every prediction and every claim that turned out wrong I've ever made.  My long ago love of Patrick Ramsey isn't a meme for nothing.

You're not wrong tho, the guys who routinely get it wrong on almost everything most certainly never mention it afterwards.  But not all of us are like that, thank you very much.

[The Crusher]

10 minutes ago, Jetster said:

There will NEVER be another Tom Brady. And by that I mean a QB so beloved by the NFL in general that the rules don't apply to him or his Oline like they do to most other QBs in this league. Granted Scarnechia might be a great Oline coach but if your gonna tell me this guy is SO GOOD he can take a bunch of no name late round guys & 1 above average LT in Nate Solder & literally STONE two of the best defensive in the NFL, have almost 90 pass attempts and not have 1 offensive holding, I've said it before, it's absolute bullsh*t, and proves that the NFL cares more about protecting Brady, creating exciting games & putting the most polarizing team into the Super Bowl which is the Patriots!

You don't think the NFL didn't love seeing that poll where everyone but New England was cheering for the Pats? That's WWF at its BEST! Create a Villian (Patriots), and match them with the ultimate underdogs (Eagles & Foles), and wallah, MAGIC! The New England Patriots were flagged 2 times in 60 minutes playing 2 of the top 5 defenses in football & only 1 flag was on the offense (illegal procedure call) 5 yards. The other 1 was a special teams flag, 5 yards vs the Jaguars. Buster Skrine averages 5 flags a game! Lol. 

Sorry, in the chaos that is NFL football & with all the grabbing, tugging, pushing, picking that goes on it's just impossible to achieve such perfection. We know this because we see the replays of their Oline holding, defenders grabbing, guys running through guys before the ball arrives like the Eagles 2 point conversion. But do you know what we ALWAYS SEE in a Patriot game? When they fall behind you'll always see a 3rd down incompletion & an ensuing flag for either holding or PI on the defense. You saw it vs the Jaguars & you saw it vs the Eagles. And, like the 2017 miraculous comeback vs the Falcons you NEVER SEE a holding flag on their Oline no matter how many times they throw the ball like the 49 passes he threw in the 2nd half of that Super Bowl. Magic.

This very well be one of my favorite post I have ever read. 

[Savage69]

2 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

This very well be one of my favorite post I have ever read. 

And food not mentioned once amazing..

[Jetster]

59 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

This very well be one of my favorite post I have ever read. 

Thanks, unfortunately the Patriots are in our division. No other fans have as deep an understanding of the depth of deception that goes on with Brady & the Patriots and this league than AFC East fans. 

Im sure that the small majority of rabid Jaguars fans, and the large group that jumped on the bandwagon for the Playoffs, had heard this all before but had never experienced it. Perfectly timed holding calls, quick whistle keeping Myles Jack from running the fumble to the endzone, 1 penalty for 10 yards vs the Pats & zero on their offense or defense. 6-98 on the Jaguars.

[kelly]

On 2/11/2018 at 9:32 AM, Jetster said:

Josh Allen..

[HessStation]

ESPN's Adam Schefter said after the 2017 draft: "There was one personnel director who told me this week that you can put it in the books, Josh Allen will be the No. 1 pick in the NFL draft next year."

[Thai Jet]

21 hours ago, NoBowles said:

Unpredictable?? Bowles has gotten everything he wants in the first round, and will again. Minkah!!

I love Minkah but we already have 2 good safeties. If you're thinking of penciling him in at CB......forget it. Roll Tide

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, HessStation said:

ESPN's Adam Schefter said after the 2017 draft: "There was one personnel director who told me this week that you can put it in the books, Josh Allen will be the No. 1 pick in the NFL draft next year."

That would be the earliest time his name was thrown around as a 1st round probability (I think Adam is full of sh*t about the no 1 pick part, as that would have meant said personnel director though he'd leapfrog Darnold, which at that time was ludicrous). He was eligible to declare along with 1/3 of his offense for the 2017 draft, but didn't. At that time, he was a day 2 guys, with some perceived upside. Then he magically ascended during the offseason/summer. 

Why do you like him Hess.