Josh Allen

[slats]

4 minutes ago, Jetster said:

That guy adds nothing. Does he want us to talk about whether Qvale will keep his backup spot? Some threads get too long & new ones need to be added for more perspective on similar topics. Isn't every topic familiar when discussing the Jets? 

I'll refrain from the insults but some posters deserve any & all insults that come their way.

I'm imagining many heads here at JN nodding ironically right now. 

[The Crusher]

48 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

If Allen was 6 feet tall, had a documented drinking problem, got all his stats in college playing in a system in front of a great OL and played badly at the senior bowl most of the posters here would be drooling over him

Miss the part were he walked onto two teams became a successful starter. To me that type of thing gives rise to the all important chip on the shoulder. Playing like you got something to prove. I will 100% agree that if he did have a drinking problem he needs to get it under control. But college kids will college kid. 

[HawkeyeJet]

9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Good post, and I’m in the same boat. I keep “evaluating” QBs based on criteria I’ve accumulated from the seventies and eighties and, as such, still refuse to believe that guys like Watson, Mariota, and Lamar Jackson are long-term viable starters. Hell, the Super Bowl was just played between two QBs that are immobile as it gets, but I don’t think those guys are being produced in large enough numbers anymore to make drafting them viable long-term, either. 

Yeah.  It's a real weird time.  NFL was so resistant to adopt remotely anything close to a "college offense". No I think they are seeing they don't have a choice, because their aren't enough guys being capable of running their traditional stuff.  

I enjoy your viewpoints.  Good stuff.

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

This is how those shows work, btw.

 

—The on-air talent sits in on a production meeting where they’re told what the topics will be, what positions they should take, and what products they need to push. In that meeting, they workshop their hot takes so they meet both network and advertiser approval. The people conceiving of this material and overseeing this inception-style thought-engineering are a group of shlubby white 26 year-olds who cull these topics from quantifying Twitter hashtags and Facebook “likes.”

 

—During the actual filming of these shows, each on-air guy has a giant earpiece jammed into their upstage ear. Watch these dudes when it’s not their turn to speak: they’re listening and nodding, not to the guy speaking, but to one of the 26 year-old shlubs who are feeding them a response, with a name and a relevant stat. So, what you see on the air is this:

Host: Man, how about those Chargers?

 

LaDainian Tomlinson: My old team! They really gave it to the Niners last week, piling up 378 yards on offense and sacking Blaine Gabbert six times.”

 

Willie McGinest: And let’s not forget the special teams. Their punter [punter name] is averaging over 45 yards per kick!

 

Host: Good point, Willie. And that’s why [punter name] is our Reese’s Kicking King of the Week. Reese’s is a proud sponsor of...

Diabetes, acne and  toothdecay everywhere. 

[Ex-Rex]

2 hours ago, Jetster said:

I readily admit that I don't watch college football but I was watching NFL total access repeat & they had Willie McGinnest & another ex-NFLer (can't remember who it was), and they had all of the QBs photos who are supposedly the top picks. 

Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield, Allen & Jackson.

So the host asks, out of these players who do you believe ends up eventually being the best NFL Quarterback. BOTH, took some time before answering & BOTH agreed it would be Josh Allen. I've only seen really negative posts about this guy from most Jet fans. I mean we have fans on this site who have stated they will cut ties with the Jets if they take Allen, lol.

So my question is this, why do so many scouts, ex-NFL coaches & players like those 2 last night think this guy might turn out to be a better NFL QB than anyone on that list? I'm just perplexed by the hatred on this particular site. Because he just might be our pick. 

Because he completed less than 60 percent of his passes. But he had a terrible cast of WR's and had to do more with less than any of the other potential draftees. I prefer Mayfield over Allen because of the Hackenberg experience. I don't want to go through that again with an inconsistent, inaccurate QB. They (scouts) say Allen has the most potential upside but like Bill Parcells I think potential just means you ain't done nothing yet.

[Jetster]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Good post, and I’m in the same boat. I keep “evaluating” QBs based on criteria I’ve accumulated from the seventies and eighties and, as such, still refuse to believe that guys like Watson, Mariota, and Lamar Jackson are long-term viable starters. Hell, the Super Bowl was just played between two QBs that are immobile as it gets, but I don’t think those guys are being produced in large enough numbers anymore to make drafting them viable long-term, either. 

That's why Lamar Jackson intrigues me. This is guy that has gotten BETTER every year, who literally CARRIED that Louisville team! All I keep hearing is IF you build an offense around his skills. Many scouts liken him to Michael Vick, or Tyrod Taylor on steroids. The guy is gonna be an exciting freaking player, can we all agree on that? When he takes off, fans are going to jump out of their seats, when he flies to the endzone on a QB keep, fans are gonna love it. I don't think with these new rules implemented (throwing the ball away), can't hit the QB low, can't hit him in the head, can't hit him when he slides. The rules make it REALLY hard on defenders with QBs that can run. 

I believe Russell Wilson might have played behind the WORST Oline in football last year & still didn't get knocked out of the playoffs until week 15. 

Jackson, in the right offense with weapons like Michel, Giuce, or Jones, a good TE, some big box out type WRs, and 1 burner like Anderson when a play breaks down could be really fun to watch. If we can't get Cousins, plan B has to bring some excitement if Rosen & Darnold are gone with taking a cocky Mayfield or dude like Jackson. 

Either of these guys could be lightning in a bottle. F*ck Bowles & his conservative ways, his Jets are the most boring team in football! Swing for the damn fences & take some chances with an unorthodox approach for a change. 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

4 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Well said. Allen might be another "siren" luring some QB coach to the rocks. He's a real project for a high pick.

Yup, the "experts" picks are a coin flip at best, no way a fan could beat these first round QB's selected from 2006-2016; "Jets front office must know something that we do not"

Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota, Paxton Lynch, Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater, EJ Manuel, Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden, Cam Newton,  Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Jay Cutler 

In 2005 the experts picked Alex Smith over Aaron Rodgers 

[varjet]

11 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

Because he completed less than 60 percent of his passes. But he had a terrible cast of WR's and had to do more with less than any of the other potential draftees. I prefer Mayfield over Allen because of the Hackenberg experience. I don't want to go through that again with an inconsistent, inaccurate QB. They (scouts) say Allen has the most potential upside but like Bill Parcells I think potential just means you ain't done nothing yet.

Allen may have had terrible WRs but I think the DBs covering them were not great either.  He should have found a way to complete 60+% of his passes in college.   

Its kind of like an idiot test in a way.  You have a college QB who wants to play in the NFL.  He is completing less than 60% of his passes.  He needs to tell his coach to come up with an offense that gets him to 60+% or he will not get drafted.

Elway with Lynch is wearing a similar problem to the Jets and Hack.   Does Elway take Allen after taking Lynch?

[Paradis]

2 hours ago, Jetster said:

I readily admit that I don't watch college football but I was watching NFL total access repeat & they had Willie McGinnest & another ex-NFLer (can't remember who it was), and they had all of the QBs photos who are supposedly the top picks. 

Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield, Allen & Jackson.

So the host asks, out of these players who do you believe ends up eventually being the best NFL Quarterback. BOTH, took some time before answering & BOTH agreed it would be Josh Allen. I've only seen really negative posts about this guy from most Jet fans. I mean we have fans on this site who have stated they will cut ties with the Jets if they take Allen, lol.

So my question is this, why do so many scouts, ex-NFL coaches & players like those 2 last night think this guy might turn out to be a better NFL QB than anyone on that list? I'm just perplexed by the hatred on this particular site. Because he just might be our pick. 

No one should "hate" Allen. That's misplaced fanaticism.

What some very strongly believe, is that he's not 1st rnd QB. The push back is the "top 10" talk, when he's so clearly a project, with accuracy concerns. Not as bad, but it's Hackenberg-esque to us because of the common themes. So that element makes him especially polarizing for this fanbase.

Why the media love?... they have no fcking clue what they're talking about sometimes. Sometimes they fall in love with a narrative, and it just becomes a thing. In fact, that "thing" can actually influence public perspective/perception. Like Christian Ponder in the mid-1st?? How could a franchise make such a horrible assessment? He averaged like 150 yards a game at FL state. Jake Locker looked like a pitcher throwing his first NFL pass. It's not always rocket science, but we make it complicated when it doesn't need to be. Josh Allen is every bit of his 55%. 

[HessStation]

2 hours ago, Jetster said:

I readily admit that I don't watch college football but I was watching NFL total access repeat & they had Willie McGinnest & another ex-NFLer (can't remember who it was), and they had all of the QBs photos who are supposedly the top picks. 

Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield, Allen & Jackson.

So the host asks, out of these players who do you believe ends up eventually being the best NFL Quarterback. BOTH, took some time before answering & BOTH agreed it would be Josh Allen. I've only seen really negative posts about this guy from most Jet fans. I mean we have fans on this site who have stated they will cut ties with the Jets if they take Allen, lol.

So my question is this, why do so many scouts, ex-NFL coaches & players like those 2 last night think this guy might turn out to be a better NFL QB than anyone on that list? I'm just perplexed by the hatred on this particular site. Because he just might be our pick. 

Bart Scott and ex Giant announcedr guy, didn't get his name, both thought Allen was the slam dunk best too fwiw

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I will say this about Josh Allen.  If he comes in and is asked to be a "prototypical" drop back passer, I don't think he has any shot.

BUT, if he goes to a team that is willing to utilize his ability to move and allow him to do some RPOs like Foles did with Eagles, and allow him to take shots down the field, I do think he could be very successful.

This will sound crazy and I'll likely get mocked, but that's ok.  I think his accuracy is not as bad as his completion percentage might indicate.  I think he does have touch issues, where he tries to throw everything as hard as he can, but I watch him and don't see a wildly inaccurate thrower like Hack.

  I think his success will have to come in chunk plays.  He may never be a 60% completion guy, or a guy that can be surgical in the short passing game.  I do think he could be a big play QB.  That's what he will need to do, make the 54% completions he does make hurt.

You made some remarks about the increasingly important virtue of mobility and athletic prowess that is developing at QB... I'd say that you're not wrong, it's an evolving position - but at that level, if we're looking for those elements as well, Lamar Jackson is 10x the QB Josh Allen is and was. If we're giving Allen points in "what else he brings to the table" then we have to award the same currency to Jackson, who should be going ahead of Allen in the draft, handedly too. 

I will agree with you, while Both Hack and Allen have accuracy problems, Hack ALSO can't deal or feel pressure - real or phantom. At least Allen will bounce around back there and throw it long or go for broke on the run. 

[Untouchable]

I agree that Allen isn’t nearly as bad as many have made him out to be. If he pans out, you could have Big Ben 2.0 on your hands for the next 12+ years.

But these same ex-players and dumb dickholes in the media were saying the Texans should take Manziel #1 overall a few years ago, were mocking Geno in the Top 5 to the Eagles just 2 days before the draft, etc.

I take everything they say with a huge grain of salt.

[HessStation]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Agree with all of the above, but mostly with the “jerk vibe” piece at the end. There’s nothing to gain by trying to be friends with every fan and media member in the New York market: they’re going to sh*t on you regardless. Eli Manning is a saint who won two Super Bowls during an era where the Patriots were cheating their asses off in support of a trash-human QB and HC and the media in NY treat him like he’s the Caucasian Geno Smith. I saw an interview with Allen where he was asked about being distracted by “all the media attention” he faced this year in Wyoming—WYOMING—and he answered that it was “a challenge.” FOH. Mayfield and Rosen would be rock stars here, even if they sucked. And if they didn’t suck? Look out.

I'd consign this

[HawkeyeJet]

4 minutes ago, Paradis said:

You made some remarks about the increasingly important virtue of mobility and athletic prowess that is developing at QB... I'd say that you're not wrong, it's an evolving position - but at that level, if we're looking for those elements as well, Lamar Jackson is 10x the QB Josh Allen is and was. If we're giving Allen points in "what else he brings to the table" then we have to award the same currency to Jackson, who should be going ahead of Allen in the draft, handedly too. 

I will agree with you, while Both Hack and Allen have accuracy problems, Hack ALSO can't deal or feel pressure - real or phantom. At least Allen will bounce around back there and throw it long or go for broke on the run. 

I don't disagree at all with your points on Jackson.  I actually would be perfectly ok if they traded back to take him and got extra picks.  The one thing about Jackson that is really encouraging to me is that his accuracy keeps improving.  Allen has basically been the same, but Jackson continues to show he's getting better at that.  And when you consider where he started at, and how recently, I don't think it's far fetched to say his accuracy could continue to develop and be at minimum, adequate in the NFL.

[HessStation]

11 minutes ago, Paradis said:

You made some remarks about the increasingly important virtue of mobility and athletic prowess that is developing at QB... I'd say that you're not wrong, it's an evolving position - but at that level, if we're looking for those elements as well, Lamar Jackson is 10x the QB Josh Allen is and was. If we're giving Allen points in "what else he brings to the table" then we have to award the same currency to Jackson, who should be going ahead of Allen in the draft, handedly too. 

I will agree with you, while Both Hack and Allen have accuracy problems, Hack ALSO can't deal or feel pressure - real or phantom. At least Allen will bounce around back there and throw it long or go for broke on the run. 

We're evaluating Hackenberg how again?

[dbatesman]

34 minutes ago, varjet said:

Allen may have had terrible WRs but I think the DBs covering them were not great either. 

Worth bearing in mind that Allen was 8th out of 11 Mountain West QBs in completion percentage, and all seven of the guys in front of him managed to crack 60%. 

[T0mShane]

26 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

I agree that Allen isn’t nearly as bad as many have made him out to be. If he pans out, you could have Big Ben 2.0 on your hands for the next 12+ years.

But these same ex-players and dumb dickholes in the media were saying the Texans should take Manziel #1 overall a few years ago, were mocking Geno in the Top 5 to the Eagles just 2 days before the draft, etc.

I take everything they say with a huge grain of salt.

They were all mostly saying that Watson was a major developmental project, too.

[Beerfish]

2 hours ago, nycdan said:

Because some Jet fans apparently know more than any and all of the people who do this for a living.  And they know it with the certainty that only complete fanaticism bestows.  There's always a certain number of people dead-set against anything the Jets do or don't do.  The measure is in how often those who were wrong (and I have had those moments) show up to own it after the fact.

As for Allen, there has been a lot of rumination that DEN, and Elway in particular, love the big, big-armed QB types and that Allen could very well land there ahead of our pick.  Just as we have our big flop in Hack, they have had two in Osweiller and then Lynch.  It'll be interesting to see if they can put their past behind them and still pick another one.

The bolded part has 100% proven to be true many a time.  I see that comment on many a sports forums.  It's bs.

[sourceworx]

59 minutes ago, Jetster said:

That's why Lamar Jackson intrigues me. This is guy that has gotten BETTER every year, who literally CARRIED that Louisville team! All I keep hearing is IF you build an offense around his skills. Many scouts liken him to Michael Vick, or Tyrod Taylor on steroids. The guy is gonna be an exciting freaking player, can we all agree on that? When he takes off, fans are going to jump out of their seats, when he flies to the endzone on a QB keep, fans are gonna love it. I don't think with these new rules implemented (throwing the ball away), can't hit the QB low, can't hit him in the head, can't hit him when he slides. The rules make it REALLY hard on defenders with QBs that can run. 

I believe Russell Wilson might have played behind the WORST Oline in football last year & still didn't get knocked out of the playoffs until week 15. 

Jackson, in the right offense with weapons like Michel, Giuce, or Jones, a good TE, some big box out type WRs, and 1 burner like Anderson when a play breaks down could be really fun to watch. If we can't get Cousins, plan B has to bring some excitement if Rosen & Darnold are gone with taking a cocky Mayfield or dude like Jackson. 

Either of these guys could be lightning in a bottle. F*ck Bowles & his conservative ways, his Jets are the most boring team in football! Swing for the damn fences & take some chances with an unorthodox approach for a change. 

I would love love LOVE it if we drafted Jackson. 

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

That's why Lamar Jackson intrigues me. This is guy that has gotten BETTER every year, who literally CARRIED that Louisville team! All I keep hearing is IF you build an offense around his skills. Many scouts liken him to Michael Vick, or Tyrod Taylor on steroids. The guy is gonna be an exciting freaking player, can we all agree on that? When he takes off, fans are going to jump out of their seats, when he flies to the endzone on a QB keep, fans are gonna love it. I don't think with these new rules implemented (throwing the ball away), can't hit the QB low, can't hit him in the head, can't hit him when he slides. The rules make it REALLY hard on defenders with QBs that can run. 

I believe Russell Wilson might have played behind the WORST Oline in football last year & still didn't get knocked out of the playoffs until week 15. 

Jackson, in the right offense with weapons like Michel, Giuce, or Jones, a good TE, some big box out type WRs, and 1 burner like Anderson when a play breaks down could be really fun to watch. If we can't get Cousins, plan B has to bring some excitement if Rosen & Darnold are gone with taking a cocky Mayfield or dude like Jackson. 

Either of these guys could be lightning in a bottle. F*ck Bowles & his conservative ways, his Jets are the most boring team in football! Swing for the damn fences & take some chances with an unorthodox approach for a change. 

If we’re being real, Lamar Jackson is being dismissed and Josh Allen is getting over-promoted because Allen looks and talks like he’s a Subaru dealer in Topeka, Kansas and Jackson does not.

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, Barkus said:

Hackenberg beat bc in the pinstripe bowl throwing for 371yds 4td no picks as a sophomore. Allen has never had a game like that, even vs  inferior competition.

BC?  Take it easy there fella

[Philc1]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If we’re being real, Lamar Jackson is being dismissed and Josh Allen is getting over-promoted because Allen looks and talks like he’s a Subaru dealer in Topeka, Kansas and Jackson does not.

Huh?

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

Than pass this thread & comment on another topic bonehead.

Nah, I’d prefer to comment on how you feel the need to make a new thread for every thought you have.

[Philc1]

25 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Worth bearing in mind that Allen was 8th out of 11 Mountain West QBs in completion percentage, and all seven of the guys in front of him managed to crack 60%. 

Get all that but Allen playing really well at the senior bowl has to affect people’s opinion of him

 

I think Allen’s accuracy issues can be fixed even at this level.  His issue is not throwing mechanics it’s the fact that he tries to rifle in every pass instead of trying to put more touch on his throws primarily to the short routes.  Brett Favre had a similar issue Jon Gruden helped him fix early on in his career

 

[Beerfish]

Oh, also, sam darnold is not some statue in the pocket  That is one reason i have him rated slightly higher than rosen.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Huh?

JOSH ALLEN IS SUPER WHITE AND CAN BE PARADED IN FRONT OF YOUR SUPER WHITE PSL HOLDERS AT A COCKTAIL MIXER WHILE LAMAR JACKSON IS A SUPER BLACK DUDE FROM POMPANO BEACH THAT DOESN’T ENUNCIATE LIKE A BRITISH NOBLE.

[Jetster]

10 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Nah, I’d prefer to comment on how you feel the need to make a new thread for every thought you have.

There has actually been some good discussion on here if you'd like to chime in. Otherwise you can chime in with your little doodie doo, poopie pants, I know I am but what you childish retorts.

[bitonti]

Jets fans are going to spend 4 months debating Josh Allen and then he's not even going to be there at 6 

[nycdan]

40 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The bolded part has 100% proven to be true many a time.  I see that comment on many a sports forums.  It's bs.

When you have dozens or hundreds of people guessing but claiming to be certain, some of them will turn out to be right and their random success will convince them they are smarter than everyone else.  That's what's really happening.

Let me give you an example.  Old stock scammers used to send out letters to 20,000 people, half of which were told a particular stock would go up and the other half were told it would go down.  For half of them, the letter was right.  Then they split the group again and did the same thing with a different stock.  Now you have 5,000 people who saw this company make two correct predictions.  Finally a third time and now you have 2,500 people who, if they aren't onto the scam, think this company is brilliant.  Then comes the pitch.  Let us invest for you.

This is what happens here.  Some people scream that Deshaun Watson will bust.  Others scream he will be a superstar.  Everyone is sure.  The ones who guess wrong never mention it again but the ones who guess right shout it to the heavens saying the KNEW it.  Nobody knows anything.  We all just make guesses based on any number of factors.  I'm tired of people being sure about this stuff.  Say it's your strong opinion and celebrate your wins.  But don't tell me that fans 'know better' than anyone else.  Yeah, some of the so-called professionals are complete idiots, and few of them actually know that much more than any of us, but it's mostly the numbers game that makes forum users look so smart.

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Jets fans are going to spend 4 months debating Josh Allen and then he's not even going to be there at 6 

1. Browns: Mayfield or Darnold

2. Giants: Rosen

3. Colts: Chubb, Barkley, or trade down to someone coming up for Mayfield(?)

4. Browns: Roquan Smith, Chubb, Barkley 

5. Broncos: Chubb, Minkah, Nelson, (assuming they get Cousins)

6. Jets: 

[rangerous]

3 hours ago, Jetster said:

I readily admit that I don't watch college football but I was watching NFL total access repeat & they had Willie McGinnest & another ex-NFLer (can't remember who it was), and they had all of the QBs photos who are supposedly the top picks. 

Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield, Allen & Jackson.

So the host asks, out of these players who do you believe ends up eventually being the best NFL Quarterback. BOTH, took some time before answering & BOTH agreed it would be Josh Allen. I've only seen really negative posts about this guy from most Jet fans. I mean we have fans on this site who have stated they will cut ties with the Jets if they take Allen, lol.

So my question is this, why do so many scouts, ex-NFL coaches & players like those 2 last night think this guy might turn out to be a better NFL QB than anyone on that list? I'm just perplexed by the hatred on this particular site. Because he just might be our pick. 

now here's a guy who had a real fastball.  he didn't turn out so bad.  note the completion %.

Passing

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
1983	23	DEN	QB	7	11	10	4-6-0	123	259	47.5	1663	7	2.7	14	5.4	49	6.4	4.5	13.5	151.2	54.9	28	218	5.03	3.33	9.8	1	1	4
1984	24	DEN	QB	7	15	14	12-2-0	214	380	56.3	2598	18	4.7	15	3.9	73	6.8	6.0	12.1	173.2	76.8	24	158	6.04	5.26	5.9	2	2	10
1985	25	DEN	QB	7	16	16	11-5-0	327	605	54.0	3891	22	3.6	23	3.8	65	6.4	5.4	11.9	243.2	70.2	38	307	5.57	4.65	5.9	6	6	13
1986*	26	DEN	QB	7	16	16	11-5-0	280	504	55.6	3485	19	3.8	13	2.6	53	6.9	6.5	12.4	217.8	79.0	32	233	6.07	5.68	6.0	2	2	14
1987*	27	DEN	QB	7	12	12	8-3-1	224	410	54.6	3198	19	4.6	12	2.9	72	7.8	7.4	14.3	266.5	83.4	20	138	7.12	6.74	4.7	3	3	14
1988	28	DEN	QB	7	15	15	8-7-0	274	496	55.2	3309	17	3.4	19	3.8	86	6.7	5.6	12.1	220.6	71.4	30	237	5.84	4.86	5.7	1	1	12
1989*	29	DEN	QB	7	15	15	10-5-0	223	416	53.6	3051	18	4.3	18	4.3	69	7.3	6.3	13.7	203.4	73.7	35	298	6.10	5.11	7.8	3	3	12
1990	30	DEN	QB	7	16	16	5-11-0	294	502	58.6	3526	15	3.0	14	2.8	66	7.0	6.4	12.0	220.4	78.5	43	311	5.90	5.29	7.9	1	3	13
1991*	31	DEN	QB	7	16	16	12-4-0	242	451	53.7	3253	13	2.9	12	2.7	71	7.2	6.6	13.4	203.3	75.4	45	305	5.94	5.38	9.1	2	5	13
1992	32	DEN	QB	7	12	12	8-4-0	174	316	55.1	2242	10	3.2	17	5.4	80	7.1	5.3	12.9	186.8	65.7	36	272	5.60	3.99	10.2	3	3	7
1993*	33	DEN	QB	7	16	16	9-7-0	348	551	63.2	4030	25	4.5	10	1.8	63	7.3	7.4	11.6	251.9	92.8	39	293	6.33	6.42	6.6	1	1	17
1994*	34	DEN	QB	7	14	14	7-7-0	307	494	62.1	3490	16	3.2	10	2.0	63	7.1	6.8	11.4	249.3	85.7	46	303	5.90	5.66	8.5	2	3	12
1995	35	DEN	QB	7	16	16	8-8-0	316	542	58.3	3970	26	4.8	14	2.6	62	7.3	7.1	12.6	248.1	86.4	22	180	6.72	6.52	3.9	1	3	15
1996*	36	DEN	QB	7	15	15	13-2-0	287	466	61.6	3328	26	5.6	14	3.0	51	7.1	6.9	11.6	221.9	89.2	26	194	6.37	6.15	5.3	4	4	15
1997*	37	DEN	QB	7	16	16	12-4-0	280	502	55.8	3635	27	5.4	11	2.2	78	7.2	7.3	13.0	227.2	87.5	34	203	6.40	6.49	6.3	1	4	18
1998*	38	DEN	QB	7	13	12	10-2-0	210	356	59.0	2806	22	6.2	10	2.8	58	7.9	7.9	13.4	215.8	93.0	18	135	7.14	7.11	4.8	2	2	14
Career					234	231	148-82-1	4123	7250	56.9	51475	300	4.1	226	3.1	86	7.1	6.5	12.5	220.0	79.9	516	3785	6.14	5.60	6.6	3

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

1. Browns: Mayfield or Darnold

2. Giants: Rosen

3. Colts: Chubb, Barkley, or trade down to someone coming up for Mayfield(?)

4. Browns: Roquan Smith, Chubb, Barkley 

5. Broncos: Chubb, Minkah, Nelson, (assuming they get Cousins)

6. Jets: 

Kiper had the Browns taking him 1 in his first mock. No way Baker "short stuff" mayfield is in the mix at 1, maybe at 4 when they pick again. There could easily be a colts trade down. Broncos might not even want Kirk Cousins (i don't think anyone really does as much as the hype train is predicting). Allen seems like a perfect John Elway pick, a huge midwesterner (Brock Osweiler was from Idaho also an elway pick)

I guess what I'm trying to say is the Jets should have a shot at Mayfield at 6. 

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, nycdan said:

When you have dozens or hundreds of people guessing but claiming to be certain, some of them will turn out to be right and their random success will convince them they are smarter than everyone else.  That's what's really happening.

Let me give you an example.  Old stock scammers used to send out letters to 20,000 people, half of which were told a particular stock would go up and the other half were told it would go down.  For half of them, the letter was right.  Then they split the group again and did the same thing with a different stock.  Now you have 5,000 people who saw this company make two correct predictions.  Finally a third time and now you have 2,500 people who, if they aren't onto the scam, think this company is brilliant.  Then comes the pitch.  Let us invest for you.

This is what happens here.  Some people scream that Deshaun Watson will bust.  Others scream he will be a superstar.  Everyone is sure.  The ones who guess wrong never mention it again but the ones who guess right shout it to the heavens saying the KNEW it.  Nobody knows anything.  We all just make guesses based on any number of factors.  I'm tired of people being sure about this stuff.  Say it's your strong opinion and celebrate your wins.  But don't tell me that fans 'know better' than anyone else.  Yeah, some of the so-called professionals are complete idiots, and few of them actually know that much more than any of us, but it's mostly the numbers game that makes forum users look so smart.

Did you ever watch that show, “Finding Giants”? It was a reality-type show following the Giants personnel department around, upmhrough the day of the draft. What was so, so surprising was how self-serious and FOS most of the dudes were who were making these calls. Like, you would assume there’s a whole science behind scouting that’s completely inaccessible to the normal fan, but it’s not. It’s just a bunch of failed high school assistant coaches who mostly live in their cars and say things like “he’s a good leader; his coaches like him; put up numbers in the Big Sky; you’ll love him.” They’re just a bunch of meatheads, mostly. On draft day, Coughlin sat in a table at the front of the room and they’d tell him who they were drafting and Coughlin had no idea who they were talking about. It was sad, but amazing to watch.

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Kiper had the Browns taking him 1 in his first mock. No way Baker "short stuff" mayfield is in the mix at 1, maybe at 4 when they pick again. There could easily be a colts trade down. Broncos might not even want Kirk Cousins (i don't think anyone really does as much as the hype train is predicting). Allen seems like a perfect John Elway pick, a huge midwesterner (Brock Osweiler was from Idaho also an elway pick)

I guess what I'm trying to say is the Jets should have a shot at Mayfield at 6. 

I’d agree with you about Mayfield not being the #1 if not for their personnel group being led by two guys who are nuts.

[varjet]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

1. Browns: Mayfield or Darnold

2. Giants: Rosen

3. Colts: Chubb, Barkley, or trade down to someone coming up for Mayfield(?)

4. Browns: Roquan Smith, Chubb, Barkley 

5. Broncos: Chubb, Minkah, Nelson, (assuming they get Cousins)

6. Jets: 

This is very likely.   Wildcard is the Broncos trading down with someone who wants Allen.