Per sources, Jets could offer Kirk Cousins fully guaranteed contract. (Merged Cousins Jets $$$ thread)

[Dcat]

1 minute ago, MDL_JET said:

Cmon but Rivers is 60-68 the last 8 years. Idkkkkk if thats the mark of a good QB. 

After Brady and Rodgers, there is a huge tier of similar QBs in terms of production, skills, wins.  Winston, Mariota, Stafford, Rivers and many more.  Cousins is solidly in that group.  Unlike some, I don't ignore the horrendous team he played with.  Some here have incorrectly argued that Washington had all this talent behind Cousins.  LOL.  An awful defense.  An awful, at times, to medicre at its best OL.  A 3rd down back who was great at receiving was his only savior in all the weeks that Reed was injured. But the run game was one of the league's worst and the Redskins shipped out the good weapons he had at WR leaving him with Crowder, who is nothing great (see Kearse), Doctson, who has been a 1st round bust and Terelle Pryor, who failed already at QB and now is failing at WR. He can't catch a cold and is not an NFL caliber WR.  He was surrounded by garbage in Washington and it got progressively worse each year.

[Sully80]

1 minute ago, MDL_JET said:

Theyre doing the smart thing and going after a good Qb that will available on the market. You have this established QB with a ton of talent and your team is in desperate need of one....why WOULDNT you go after that guy??? Especially when you're sitting at 6 and have no idea how the draft would unfold.

I want the Jets to go after Cousins, I just don't think that Cousins is worth nearly 200 million with most/all of it guaranteed

[shuler82]

I’d rather the jets throw money at Cousins than trade all their draft (and next years #1) to move up to get the 3rd QB drafted in April

they have the cap space. The $$$ won’t prevent them from bringing in other FAs. They’ll have 4 picks in the first 3 rounds. Yeah, Cousins isn’t worth the deal. Who cares. He’ll still be the best QB we’ve had here in years.

[BCJet]

1 hour ago, bla bla bla said:

I've said it before, I think we have too much money for the amount of players hitting the market. I think it is naïve to think that we sign top players with the $40M we give Cousins year 1 that we couldn't have attracted with the $70M prior to a Cousins deal. I think we'll need to overpay for players to come here so if I'm blowing money on 1 position it's for QB.

$70M should be more than enough to get CB(2x), TE, C/G, LB. I think we can get an Edge and RB early in the draft. I'd like to address WR in some way but would prefer the secondary FA WRs, pick in our top 4 selections, or picking up a player when cuts come around. IMO LT will be the one potential big need in 2019 when we'd have all our draft picks and $45M in cap. 

I haven't seen you (or anyone else) mention it, but I 100000% agree that we have too much money for what is out there. 

When the league instituted the rookie salary cap, it was and still is an excellent idea as rookies were getting paid WAY too much and it allowed a ton more money to be available for veteran players throughout the league.  However, the amount of good players didnt change, simply the amount of money available to pay them went up.  We used to have 2 or 3 teams each year that had a lot of cap space.  This year there are 10+ teams that could afford Cousins - which is insane.  

If we dont get him, and draft a QB, we are going to have good NFL starters, at non-elite positions getting crazy money, which isn't a good scenario either.  Arguing that teams haven't been successful tying up X% of their cap for a franchise QB doesn't take into account how much the salary landscape has changed.

Id rather get Quentin Nelson or Chubb at 6, and get some young speed on offense with our second round picks, and use the money on the most important position on the field, for a player with a very proven skill set.  Otherwise we are going to be seeing 4 guys like buster skrine get overpaid to play mediocre football for the next 4 years.

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, BCJet said:

I haven't seen you (or anyone else) mention it, but I 100000% agree that we have too much money for what is out there. 

When the league instituted the rookie salary cap, it was and still is an excellent idea as rookies were getting paid WAY too much and it allowed a ton more money to be available for veteran players throughout the league.  However, the amount of good players didnt change, simply the amount of money available to pay them went up.  We used to have 2 or 3 teams each year that had a lot of cap space.  This year there are 10+ teams that could afford Cousins - which is insane.  

If we dont get him, and draft a QB, we are going to have good NFL starters, at non-elite positions getting crazy money, which isn't a good scenario either.  Arguing that teams haven't been successful tying up X% of their cap for a franchise QB doesn't take into account how much the salary landscape has changed.

Id rather get Quentin Nelson or Chubb at 6, and get some young speed on offense with our second round picks, and use the money on the most important position on the field, for a player with a very proven skill set.  Otherwise we are going to be seeing 4 guys like buster skrine get overpaid to play mediocre football for the next 4 years.

for all the folks here (including me) who think it's crazy to spend this much on cousins....

wait until you all see what mccagnan spends his money on after cousins signs elsewhere.

[Larz]

When Tanny had to sign 4 first round picks,  he gave them more guaranteed money in exchange for a lower cap hit 

If cousins is willing to sign for overall less money in exchange for more guarantees, fine 

If the only thing we get in exchange is a signature,  not great. 

If you have to beat someone over the head with a bag of money for them to take the job,  it's usually a big mistake. 

They have to want to be here. 

Sure,  a good agent is going to get your best offer,  more than you wanted to spend,  but you shouldn't over spend by any significant margin.  

If you have to go way over and beyond you will regret it. 

My approach would be to structure a deal that makes him the highest paid player by 3% and give him a day to consider it. 

Psychologically, you have to be prepared to sweeten the offer or you risk losing the "how much do they really want you " discussion 

So after the counter offer I  close with highest paid player by 5%.

If he balks,  I withdraw the offer and go after someone else. 

If he balks,  you are being used to get the offer up where he really wants to be. 

His agent and wife have had weeks to look at school systems,  taxes and real estate. 

This shouldn't take long. 

 

[BCJet]

57 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Nice to see we’re already starting in on the “Kirk needs more weppinz” defenses three years early.

He needs weapons today, he will need them 2/3 years from now and will need them after he turns 35.  Its not a defense 

Aside from Rogers and Brady every QB in the league needs weapons.  Matt Ryan would cost more then Cousins if he hit the open market and is the exact same type of QB that needs a good OC and good players to be successful.

Its not an indictment of Cousins that he needs weapons - Matt Stafford makes insane money too, and still needs weapons to be successful, its a team game and aside from finding a first ballot HOF QB, you need to give them weapons to be successful

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, BCJet said:

He needs weapons today, he will need them 2/3 years from now and will need them after he turns 35.  Its not a defense 

Aside from Rogers and Brady every QB in the league needs weapons.  Matt Ryan would cost more then Cousins if he hit the open market and is the exact same type of QB that needs a good OC and good players to be successful.

Its not an indictment of Cousins that he needs weapons - Matt Stafford makes insane money too, and still needs weapons to be successful, its a team game and aside from finding a first ballot HOF QB, you need to give them weapons to be successful

the difference is, most other teams are not allergic to drafting offensive players in the first round.  they'll actually sign FAs to help the offense who aren't over 35 years old.  and they will invest in the OL and RB in early rounds.  all things that our gm does not do.

[SMC]

13 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

I’d rather the jets throw money at Cousins than trade all their draft (and next years #1) to move up to get the 3rd QB drafted in April

they have the cap space. The $$$ won’t prevent them from bringing in other FAs. They’ll have 4 picks in the first 3 rounds. Yeah, Cousins isn’t worth the deal. Who cares. He’ll still be the best QB we’ve had here in years.

Frankly, this is my thinking as well.  They have the money, spend it.  Do a good job drafting players, especially with the first 4 picks.  Money can be spent.  Trading away picks prevents them from getting better later.

Cousins is coming off 3 straight years of 4000+ yards, 25+ TDs, 90+ QB rating, 64+ Comp. %.  It's not like Jets will be throwing money at a bum.

[shuler82]

2 minutes ago, SMC said:

Frankly, this is my thinking as well.  They have the money, spend it.  Do a good job drafting players, especially with the first 4 picks.  Money can be spent.  Trading away picks prevents them from getting better later.

Cousins is coming off 3 straight years of 4000+ yards, 25+ TDs, 90+ QB rating, 64+ Comp. %.  It's not like Jets will be throwing money at a bum.

The arguments about Cousins being worth the money are irrelevant. You need a QB to win. It’s time for the Jets to lock in their guy for 5 years. Let them front load the deal, grab a few other FA starters,and keep their picks to improve the roster. 

I don’t think he’ll ultimately choose to come to NY but the Jets would be foolish not to do everything they can to get him here. 

[Lupz27]

34 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

so 18 TD's and 3000 yards is better then 27 TD's and 4000 yards?

You brought up passer rating McCown 11th, Cousins 12th.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, SMC said:

Frankly, this is my thinking as well.  They have the money, spend it.  Do a good job drafting players, especially with the first 4 picks.  Money can be spent.  Trading away picks prevents them from getting better later.

Cousins is coming off 3 straight years of 4000+ yards, 25+ TDs, 90+ QB rating, 64+ Comp. %.  It's not like Jets will be throwing money at a bum.

there's nothing to point to that mccagnan has the dedication to build a competent offense, regardless of whether he signs cousins or drafts a qb.  this is the biggest problem i see here.  he may want to get a qb for stability and may actually wind up getting one.  but is he willing to spend on offensive linemen?  will he pursue an upgrade at center?  will he try to get another TE to help out a rookie qb?  does he see the value adding another wr in case robbie anderson is suspended and enunwa is still injured?  or will he merely sign cousins and then spend the rest of the FA money on a cb, a mo replacement and a lb to replace mauldin?  

[SMC]

1 minute ago, shuler82 said:

The arguments about Cousins being worth the money are irrelevant. You need a QB to win. It’s time for the Jets to lock in their guy for 5 years. Let them front load the deal, grab a few other FA starters,and keep their picks to improve the roster. 

I don’t think he’ll ultimately choose to come to NY but the Jets would be foolish not to do everything they can to get him here. 

Exactly.

The analysis is not the money.  It is, "is there anyone available who will be just as good or better than Cousins for the next 3 years?"  If the team believes that there is no one in the draft or someone they can sign in the next 3 years better than Cousins then they have to do everything they can to sign him.  I have no idea if they'll succeed, but they have to go for it.

[Smashmouth]

What a fan base !

[Lupz27]

31 minutes ago, BCJet said:

21st, 28th and 28th - thats the Redskins team defensive ranking the 3 years that cousins started.  Guess thats his fault too

Ahhh the old excuses for why the team losses, but the QB is good sh*t, give me a break.

[SMC]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

there's nothing to point to that mccagnan has the dedication to build a competent offense, regardless of whether he signs cousins or drafts a qb.  this is the biggest problem i see here.  he may want to get a qb for stability and may actually wind up getting one.  but is he willing to spend on offensive linemen?  will he pursue an upgrade at center?  will he try to get another TE to help out a rookie qb?  does he see the value adding another wr in case robbie anderson is suspended and enunwa is still injured?  or will he merely sign cousins and then spend the rest of the FA money on a cb, a mo replacement and a lb to replace mauldin?  

All completely true and these are questions Macc has to answer.  I have no faith in him, but going after Cousins is the smart thing to do.

[Lupz27]

1 minute ago, SMC said:

Exactly.

The analysis is not the money.  It is, "is there anyone available who will be just as good or better than Cousins for the next 3 years?"  If the team believes that there is no one in the draft or someone they can sign in the next 3 years better than Cousins then they have to do everything they can to sign him.  I have no idea if they'll succeed, but they have to go for it.

Dude no, it’s the incompetence of the organization to get good coaching on offense, and build a good culture on offense, the Vikings just went the the NFCCG with Case ******* Keenum, Eagles won the Super Bowl with Nick ******* Foles!  Get Aaron Rodgers in here, and Bowles will still **** it up, the problem is the Jets, and their philosophy, or just flat out blind stupidity of how to build a team, and pick HC’s, not the ability to find a Qb is the conclusion I have come to very recently.

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, SMC said:

All completely true and these are questions Macc has to answer.  I have no faith in him, but going after Cousins is the smart thing to do.

it's the smart thing to do for a gm who can't seem to understand how to evaluate qbs, and a gm who does not want to draft offensive players in the first round.  and it's the smart thing to do for a head coach who wants his entire offensive starting unit over 30 years old.

[SMC]

3 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Ahhh the old excuses for why the team losses, but the QB is good sh*t, give me a break.

Not making excuses, but some people are giving the impression that Cousins is a losing QB.  He's 24-23-1 as a full time starter (last 3 yrs), with 1 postseason birth and 1 probowl appearance.  

[SMC]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

it's the smart thing to do for a gm who can't seem to understand how to evaluate qbs, and a gm who does not want to draft offensive players in the first round.  and it's the smart thing to do for a head coach who wants his entire offensive starting unit over 30 years old.

Well, you gotta dance with the one that brought ya.

[MDL_JET]

1 minute ago, SMC said:

Not making excuses, but some people are giving the impression that Cousins is a losing QB.  He's 24-23-1 as a full time starter (last 3 yrs), with 1 postseason birth and 1 probowl appearance.  

That doesn't fit Lupz's argument. GOOD QBs have records like 40-5 because they win! They don't have losing seasons. 

[SMC]

3 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Dude no, it’s the incompetence of the organization to get good coaching on offense, and build a good culture on offense, the Vikings just went the the NFCCG with Case ******* Keenum, Eagles won the Super Bowl with Nick ******* Foles!  Get Aaron Rodgers in here, and Bowles will still **** it up, the problem is the Jets, and their philosophy, or just flat out blind stupidity of how to build a team, and pick HC’s, not the ability to find a Qb is the conclusion I have come to very recently.

All completely true.  But what you propose isn't reality.  We can only deal with what is before us and it's the choice of signing Cousins or sucking at the QB position.

[Smashmouth]

Just now, SMC said:

All completely true and these are questions Macc has to answer.  I have no faith in him, but going after Cousins is the smart thing to do.

With the sixth pick in the draft going after Cousins is exactly the smart thing to do. Since trading up loses you so many good young players and gives you what still amounts to a question mark at the QB position.

Lets look at a scenario 

Jets Sign Cousins

Solidify the Offensive line via Free Agency and the Draft . Jensen

Add as top WR either Landry or Robinson - Even with the addition of say Cousins,Landry and Jensen we still have plenty of cap space left to fill other holes

After that lets say Barkley falls to 6 if everyone is calling for a QB .... The team then becomes very dynamic on offense. I believe if Barkley falls to 6 there is no way you can pass on him. Even if Barkley does not fall we may still have a nice option at RB in the second and use the sixth for Nelson who will be a monster next to Jensen on the O-Line

After all of that we still have numerous picks in the draft and about half our FA money to spend.

If this falls the way I stated above this team is a playoff team next year especially if we use some FA money on a corner. Our Secondary could be elite over night with our Safeties going into their second year. If a team like the one I laid out above does not win  and turn things around exactly like the Rams did then Mr Bowles needs to be shown the door at break neck speed.

[Dcat]

Just now, MDL_JET said:

That doesn't fit Lupz's argument. GOOD QBs have records like 40-5 because they win! They don't have losing seasons. 

the real problem is when he and others totally ignore just how sh*tty the team was around him while claiming all they look at is W-L.   Wow, that is about as lame as it gets. 

[Smashmouth]

5 minutes ago, SMC said:

Not making excuses, but some people are giving the impression that Cousins is a losing QB.  He's 24-23-1 as a full time starter (last 3 yrs), with 1 postseason birth and 1 probowl appearance.  

Not to mention the Redskins were brutalized with Injuries last year and Cousins still played well.

[SMC]

Just now, MDL_JET said:

That doesn't fit Lupz's argument. GOOD QBs have records like 40-5 because they win! They don't have losing seasons. 

Yeah.  Unfortunately, Aaron Rodgers was 6-10 as a starter once, Ben Roethlisberger was 7-8, Peyton Manning 6-10, Matt Ryan 4-12 and Drew Brees with the Saints went 3 straight years of 7-8, 7-9 and 7-8 with the Saints before last season's 11-5.

[Lupz27]

18 minutes ago, SMC said:

Not making excuses, but some people are giving the impression that Cousins is a losing QB.  He's 24-23-1 as a full time starter (last 3 yrs), with 1 postseason birth and 1 probowl appearance.  

So let’s just not count the 1-7 record he had starting yes he started all 8 games that’s enough to count 25-30-1.

[Lupz27]

18 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

With the sixth pick in the draft going after Cousins is exactly the smart thing to do. Since trading up loses you so many good young players and gives you what still amounts to a question mark at the QB position.

Lets look at a scenario 

Jets Sign Cousins

Solidify the Offensive line via Free Agency and the Draft . Jensen

Add as top WR either Landry or Robinson - Even with the addition of say Cousins,Landry and Jensen we still have plenty of cap space left to fill other holes

After that lets say Barkley falls to 6 if everyone is calling for a QB .... The team then becomes very dynamic on offense. I believe if Barkley falls to 6 there is no way you can pass on him. Even if Barkley does not fall we may still have a nice option at RB in the second and use the sixth for Nelson who will be a monster next to Jensen on the O-Line

After all of that we still have numerous picks in the draft and about half our FA money to spend.

If this falls the way I stated above this team is a playoff team next year especially if we use some FA money on a corner. Our Secondary could be elite over night with our Safeties going into their second year. If a team like the one I laid out above does not win  and turn things around exactly like the Rams did then Mr Bowles needs to be shown the door at break neck speed.

This has to be the stupidest thing I’ve read first you call drafting a QB as questionable (it is the only thing that is not stupid), but then proceed to list like 10 highly questionable things to happen seriously WTF kind of bizzaro world do you live in?

[BCJet]

38 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Ahhh the old excuses for why the team losses, but the QB is good sh*t, give me a break.

Ahh, the uninformed "its all the QB" argument

Matt Ryan  2014 - 66.1%  4694  28  14     Falcons went 6-10

Matt Ryan  2017   64.7%   4095  20  12    Falcons went  10-6

Im confused, he had better stats in 2014 but they lost more games, could it be they played better defense in 2017 or something else outside of Ryan's performance?

The QB is the most important player, but there are 21 other guys who help determine the outcome of the games.

[Jetster]

12 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

This has to be the stupidest thing I’ve read first you call drafting a QB as questionable (it is the only thing that is not stupid), but then proceed to list like 10 highly questionable things to happen seriously WTF kind of bizzaro world do you live in?

These are not things that are totally out of the realm of possibility, in fact all these things can be accomplished, maybe not with these exact players.

[Tony MaC]

So this is getting interesting...

I'm pretty okay with Kirk coming aboard and accept that the cost is going to be a league high one way or another. It's a premium paid for stability at the QB position, one we can afford at this time.

Kirk fits the mold of a franchise QB, though he's not an elite top 4 kind of player he's one you can build a winning team around. I think he and Bates would form a solid working relationship with each other and take the offense to new heights.

If we miss out then we miss out but the Jets should try their best to lure him in.

[SMC]

24 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

So let’s just not count the 1-7 record he had starting yes he started all 8 games that’s enough to count 25-30-1.

What are you referencing?  Cousins never went 1-7.  He was a backup his 1st 3 seasons in which he was an injury replacement.  He started 1 game in 2012 (1-0), started 3 games in 2013 (0-3) and 5 games in 2014 (1-4).

As a full time starter (as I previously mentioned was the basis) the last 3 years he is 24-23-1.

Again, Drew Brees in his last FIVE seasons before this season was 7-9, 11-5, 7-9, 7-8 and 7-9.  That's only 39-40. Does Brees suck?  Saints drafted well and the team was 11-5 this past season.

[sourceworx]

1 hour ago, Lupz27 said:

Ahhh the old excuses for why the team losses, but the QB is good sh*t, give me a break.

Funny, you made similar (if not crazier) excuses for Sam Darnold after he stunk up the field repeatedly this past season.

[joewilly12]

Latest mock has Cousins signing with the Browns and us picking Rosen 

SPOILER ALERT: Neither the Browns nor the Broncos select a quarterback in the following one-round mock draft.

That's because free agency is going to be an eight- to nine-figure financial tug of war over Kirk Cousins, Case Keenum, AJ McCarron and any other unrestricted quarterback who ever started a few games without accidentally beaning himself upside the head with a football.

Free-agent stars at other positions, like Jarvis Landry and DeMarcus Lawrence, are also going to change hands in a few weeks, skewing the draft strategies of teams like the Buccaneers and Bears.

So this mock draft calibrates its crystal ball past both the NFL Scouting Combine and free agency to provide a snapshot of what the draft will look like after the Cousins dust settles. That's why familiar faces like Baker Mayfield fall into some unfamiliar locations.

February mock drafts are mostly speculation anyway. So let's speculate spectacularly.

This mock draft is built around two powerful NFL offseason forces: the Garoppolo Ripple Effect and Front Office Slingshot Principle.

The Garoppolo Ripple Effect (or Garipple Effect) states that the 49ers priced everyone out of the quarterback free-agent market except teams with gee-golly gonzo cap space when they forked over $42.6 million in first-year cash to Jimmy Garoppolo two weeks ago. The Browns are now one of the few teams that can afford Kirk Cousins since they can drop a salary-cap depth charge on him in 2018 without any long-term financial consequences.

The Front Office Slingshot Principle states that new regimes always veer as hard as possible in the exact opposite direction from the previous regime. So general manager John Dorsey and his all-star cast of Real Football Guys (TM) will make the least analytical decisions possible, despite the fact there is still a Moneyball faction in the Browns front office. Or, more accurately, because there's still a Moneyball faction in the Browns front office.

Drafting a running back first overall is the least Moneyball thing a rebuilding franchise can do; overpaying for a quarterback who has proven he needs top talent around him to succeed ranks a close second.

Still, a Cousins-Saquon Barkley backfield has plenty to offer. Barkley gives Cousins a security blanket, head-coach-by-December Todd Haley a Le'Veon Bell surrogate to build the offense around and the Browns a clear direction and identity. And while it's possible to parlay the Browns' draft-pick bushel into a much cheaper Sam Darnold-Barkley backfield, Cousins takes the developmental guesswork out of Hue Jackson's hands.

Yep, the Cousins-Barkley ripple-slingshot backfield will immediately catapult the Browns toward 8-8. And there's nothing Real Football Guys (TM) enjoy more than proclaiming success after an 8-8 season.

 

6. New York Jets: Josh Rosen, Quarterback, UCLA

6 OF 32

 

Alex Gallardo/Associated Press

Josh Rosen has the potential to become the Millennial Joe Namath.

The NFL is full of millennial quarterbacks, but few quarterbacks are stereotypical millennials. Carson Wentz, for example, is basically a hero from a 19th-century novel who goes to an escape room every once in a while. Skeptical, free-thinking, outspoken representatives of the current ruling generation don't really fit the NFL quarterback culture, because coaches who parrot seventh-hand Don Coryell wisdom fear quarterbacks who think for themselves.

The primary knock on Josh Rosen is that he's not the grim-and-determined, do-or-die quasi-military cadet teams prefer in a quarterback prospect. Rosen would be a personality clash waiting to happen in many organizations because he actually possesses a personality. Imagine him questioning orders handed down from John Elway, adding even more friction to the Hue Jackson-Todd Haley dynamic in Cleveland, or taking the Giants a teensy bit beyond the comfort zone they established in the late 1950s: It just wouldn't work.

But the Jets rose to football and cultural relevance in the 1960s by looking past Namath's rebellious spirit and embracing his talent and dedication. Rosen is just what the current Jets need after years of fiddling with marginal talents at quarterback: not just a gifted passer, but someone willing to do things a little differently and re-energize the whole organization.

Rosen can finally free the Jets from the escape room they've been trapped in since Woodstock; ironically, all they have to do is make the most obvious choice and select the best quarterback on the board.

Link to the entire article  http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2758739-2018-nfl-mock-draft-mike-taniers-guesstacular-first-round-predictions

[SMC]

I'd be ecstatic if the Jets end up with Rosen. Don't think there's a chance in hell it happens because he's going to 3.