Per sources, Jets could offer Kirk Cousins fully guaranteed contract. (Merged Cousins Jets $$$ thread)

[Dcat]

4 hours ago, Jetster said:

Snyder took the losing side (RG3), because he's a meddling POS, and was LOVING the attention RG3 was bringing to the organization. RG3 was a Super Nova that Snyder tied himself to that burnt out as fast as came on the scene. 

Shannahan knew he had a better QB in Kirk but because Snyder is a meddling idiot they literally took sides and that is where the animosity between both Shannahan & Kirk came into play against Snyder. Then, Snyder fires Shannahan. Kirk always had a chip on his shoulder after that & it played out with his "YOU LIKE THAT!" Moment. Like Sanchez, Kirk lost all his binkies in 2017, and was playing with a whole new cast of characters. Garçon & Jackson were gone, he lost all 3 of his RBs, he played behind the 2nd most shuffled Oline behind Seattle (without the running skills of Russell Wilson), and his go to TE Reed was injured all year.

Kirk wanted out, and Snyder & the GM knew it. Kirk was not open to mending fences, he's to genuine and Snyder cut the cord. We now have a chance to sign him. I'll be very upset if we're not in the running. I'll be ecstatic if we somehow land him. From Sanchez, to Geno, to Fitz, to McCown, and then finally to Kirk Cousins? Maybe, just maybe, the NY Jets finally got a lucky break. This isn't like signing a washed up Leonard Marshall, Ronnie Lott, or even Darrelle Revis. This is signing a legitimate starting QB that walks into camp, demands everyone's attention & will be the best QB this franchise has had since Favre showed up in 2008. The biggest difference being we all knew Favre RELUCTANTLY came to NY, whereas if Cousins signs here, this is where he wants to be for the second act of his NFL career & it won't be for 1 year.

very well said!  +1

[Sperm Edwards]

6 hours ago, Jetster said:

What's worse..paying a starting QB ranked in the top 10 in the NFL after 3 years starting 30 million or giving Mo Wilkerson 17.5 million per year?

80% of Jet fans wanted Mo reupped, I happened to be against it but it's not like we had anyone else of importance to sign. Kirk Cousins in 3 years starting is a proven commodity no different than Phillip Rivers, Stafford, Matt Ryan Ect.

There is absolutely no reason you could come up with to say you wouldn't want him for 5 years. So, outside of getting injured, if the overall contract is less, but guaranteed in whole, what's your argument? There is a reason that San Diego, Detroit and Atlanta haven't had to draft a QB for years & its in this area of talent that Kirk Cousins falls. 

There is only 1 Brady, 1 Rogers, they are outliers like Labron & Jordan. 

There are many other components that lead to a winning season, like staying healthy, strength of schedule, and obviously talent & coaching. But the #1 component in todays NFL is a competent QB. It doesn't guarantee wins, or playoffs, but without one you are guaranteed to suck unless you have one of the top 3 defenses in the league like the Vikings did in 2017, or Houston did in 2016.

I keep seeing, "but I want to win a Super Bowl", but you can't win a Super Bowl without at least making the playoffs. Just because Washington didn't make the playoffs is not entirely on Kirk Cousins, no more than every year that Rivers or Stafford didn't make the playoffs but none of you would be screaming to get rid of them if they were the QBs of the NY Jets.

Its not Cousins you have no faith in, it's the Jets organization. If you don't think the Jets can put together a winner with Kirk, 60/70 million free agent dollars & 3 picks in the top 50, why would you even entertain the idea of them trading away valuable draft picks to select a QB that none of us has even a CLUE that they can play in the NFL & succeed? 

Where do you spend 100 million in free agency if not on a QB? Free agency has never been a panacea for any team except Green Bay & Reggie White, but they had Brett Favre at QB. Without a legitimate QB, even with 100 million to spend, the NY Jets will still be viewed as a black hole and the only free agents coming here are the ones only looking out for their bottom line, maxing out their 2nd contract, winning is secondary to getting paid. At least with Cousins on board, there really is a legitimate shot of winning some games. Especially if your targeting offensive players in free agency. Plenty of teams have a lot of money relative to the small amount of free agents available & a small group that we see as free agents today will be franchised anyway to shrink that group of free agents anyway. I believe IF the Jets miss on Cousins, you'll see a NY Jets team literally standing at the alter with a huge wad of money in their hands with very few takers. Oh, they'll be plenty of interested agents for that large group of secondary free agents looking to get overpaid to be a NY Jet, but the Jets with money to burn is always fire that burns out in 2 years and smolders for another 5 years. To think, that giving Kirk Cousins a huge part of those free agent dollars is a mistake, wait until you see the mistakes they make with it if they don't land him. 

We've all seen this act before. And it never ends well. 

 

I'm sympathetic to some of this - most of all, the silliness of the idea that if Cousins oversaw a 7-9 Redskins team then he's therefore a 7-9 QB - but it oversteps in other areas. 

Mo made $18.5m/year over 2 years not $17.5m. On the heels of Revis making $19.5m/year over 2 years. Which also coincided with basically every veteran extended and brought in lasting 1-2 years maximum (in some cases, like Mo, not even that). 

Point being, it's not that we had no one else to spend it on. This is simply not true, and the state of the roster as the team headed into that 2016 draft showed it. They were maxed out precisely from spending it on others, and we were in a stalemate with Ryan Fitzpatrick. Ryan freaking Fitzpatrick tries to hold this team over a barrel, calls the team's bluff, and he's successful because they've brought in no one else of substance (a Geno-Petty-Hackenberg trio was unrealistic, with Fitz's buddies on the team surely telling him to not cave because these 3 suck). 

No small part of Mo's extension was to clear up the space to fit Fitzpatrick. Mo's 2-year guarantee total (compared to back-to-back franchise tags) was more or less the same; they just didn't anticipate the idea that maybe he wouldn't be worth having in year 2 at that amount, so they wanted to drop his 2016 cap number from $16m to $10m to clear immediate space for Fitz. (Fitz's 2016 cap number ended up being $7m; a subsequent restructuring of Skrine made up for the extra million plus a little breathing room for the upcoming season). 

It's not true that there was no one else to spend it on. Just that so much of those they were spending it on wouldn't be with the team a year after extending Mo: Revis, Harris, Marshall, Decker, Mangold, Clady (after giving Brick a paycut ultimatum that April, which kicked in an accelerated $5m in dead space), Breno, Gilchrist, and Folk. That group of 9 active players accounted for some $75m of 2016's cap, with Mo's FT pushing it north of $90m. 90 freaking million dollars in 2016 cap charges, for 10 players that were all deemed expendable less than a year later. Then even that number doesn't include the $10m RB duo of Forte/Powell, both fully guaranteed for 2017.

The problem with Cousins isn't the extra $5m or so above what he probably should be. It's that the team has painted itself into yet another corner with this, or apparently sees itself as being in one, due to a lukewarm extension for both HC and GM, and having only 2 worthless draftees under contract. The GM in particular (with the HC likely in agreement) doesn't want to risk his career behind another failed draft pick QB (especially one taken at the top of the draft, where #6 may not be high enough to get the guy he covets most). Not to mention, no one should have confidence in him - or the 2 of them together - making the right choice. 

This talk of 5 years guaranteed (which is hopefully just BS) is ridiculous to even contemplate. If he fades by the end of 2-3 years like so many FAs do, and the team surely suffers under that weight with more losing records, Macc and Bowles will surely be fired. Well what type of incoming HC or GM is going to take this job, if they're locked into an underperforming QB making a guaranteed $30m/year? 5 years for Cousins = de facto at least 4 years for Maccagnan/Bowles, or the only options for replacing them being with similar or worse incompetents. Picking so highly in this deep draft class, if Macc does this, it's a glaring admission he doesn't believe he can properly assess the position among college prospects. 

[joewilly12]

4 minutes ago, Grandy said:

He instantly becomes the best QB we've ever had,

Joe Namath says hello and until Kirk Cousins wins us a Super Bowl thats very debatable. 

I hope we sign him day 1 minute 1 in free agency. 

With the 6th pick draft the best RB available,WR available or edge rusher available. 

LETS MOVE FORWARD.  

[Dcat]

2 hours ago, jetspenguin said:

you are right 100%, the rook is a greater risk...and by far a greater reward. 

 

2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

And you think Macc, the guy who drafted Petty and Hackenberg, knows what a good young qb looks like?

not only that, do you think Bowles and his clown car of coaches will be able to coach a rookie?  The answer to that is obvious, so never mind that.  Do you think Bowles will even let the rookie touch a snap in his first 2 years?  Maybe if the OC ties Bowles up in the weight room, blindfolds and gags him would we even get a peek at the rookie QB in pre season.

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

I look at Denver without Talib. He was a STUD last year, played incredibly well. Broncos are 2 injuries away from disaster.

Lol... we're ALREADY a disaster. This is your reason why Cousins would forego the team Manning picked and won a superbowl, with proven management? Because we can offer instant depression, versus the risk of it?

The only way Cousins winds up in NY is if his inner scrooge takes over and our GM is willing to take a pineapple in the anus. The latter is expected. 

[Dcat]

2 hours ago, jetspenguin said:

lol even a broken clock.....

nope.  Not our pair of broken clocks.  

[sourceworx]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

We don't have a true #1 WR and we do need a RB if Powell stayed healthy id like to see him as our feature back as he always produces,McGuire is decent need an Alvin Kamara type in that backfield. 

Powell isn't durable enough to be a #1 back.

Plus RBs aren't hard to find. Also the one thing I like about our coaching changes on offense is they come from a system that consistently has gotten very good production from unheralded running backs.

We don't have a true #1 receiver, but as a whole the receivers are solid. One thing they have a lot of is speed.

 

[Paradis]

3 hours ago, jamesr said:

Not sure if this has been answered already, but one thing that stood out to me looking at 2017 ... only 4 teams gave up more points last year than the Redskins (388). Miami, Cleveland, Indy, Houston. And they're all AFC, so they gave up more points than all other NFC teams (except the Giants who they tied with).

Yes - even the Jets gave up fewer points than Washington!

Of those 4 teams (plus I'll include NYG) they scored the most points (342) - mostly by a wide margin. Browns 234, Giants 246, Indy 263, Miami 281, Houston 338 (the only one even remotely close).

2016 they still gave up a tonne of points (383), although lots of other teams seemed to do so too that year. Still bottom half of the league. 2015 - where they won the NFC East - they gave up 379, again bottom half of the league.

A QB can do a lot, but he can't play defense.  

EDIT - just did  a quick eyeball on passing vs rushing stats for Washington last year

RUSH - 21st in rushing TDs, 29th in YPC, 30th in 1st down %

PASS - 9th in passing TDs, 9th in YPA, 12th in 1st down %

Can't argue with some of this. Impossible to win consistently if your team is actually the worst... on defense anyways. I would expect anyone including Tom Brady to struggle with that defense. 

I'm still not OK with this "oh poor Kirk, no talent to support him" BS narrative. He's had far more than some, including us, to work with. And I don't care what your stats say, Chris Thompson flat out balled last year and the year before. His screen passes are literally responsible for like 40% of Cousin's stats. 

[joewilly12]

Just now, sourceworx said:

Powell isn't durable enough to be a #1 back.

Plus RBs aren't hard to find. Also the one thing I like about our coaching changes on offense is they come from a system that consistently has gotten very good production from unheralded running backs.

We don't have a true #1 receiver, but as a whole the receivers are solid. One thing they have a lot of is speed.

 

A decent QB makes EVERYONE better signing Cousins changes this entire team I fully agree. 

Add in a decent draft and we are competitive in the 2018 season. 

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, MDL_JET said:

So if they pick a QB in top 10, you think he's sitting on the bench the whole season??? Not a chance. 

You are forgetting who the Jets Head Coach is.  Even the overall #1 pick would sit on Bowle's bench for at least 2 years.

[Paradis]

2 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

We don't have a true #1 receiver, but as a whole the receivers are solid. One thing they have a lot of is speed.

If you've been dating hogs, i can't blame you for thinking a sow is looking good at 11:30 on a friday night. 

[JustInFudge]

51 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Oh give me a f*cking break! They just lost 8 games IN A ROW without any significant injuries in 2017. Are you gonna tell me the f*cking QB that we JUST BROUGHT IN who had previously won 2 f*cking games in 2 freaking YEARS is that much better than Simian or Osweiller?

Bullsh*t, I ain't buying it. Thomas & Sanders are 3 years older & crossed the 30 threshold and will be paid a COMBINED 23 million in 2018. How long are they around for at those ridiculous salaries? You act like ANYONE will come in & replace Talib, yea, like Revis was replaced here when he left, lol. I could give a flying f*ck that Elway is their GM, and I will guarantee you that the turnover about to happen in the next 2 years will be much more dramatic in Denver than in NY with the Jets after 2018 draft & free agency. 

Jets will be much a much younger team going forward, playing in a division which is very close to finally seeing huge changes in New England. Maybe I'm being too optimistic but we'll see. 

Ummm....the Broncos made the Jets quit.  Like, they participated in a professional Football game, head to head and made the Jets quit.  As in, quit.  The coaching staff quit half way through the ball game.  Both teams ended 5-11.  You can scream and yell all you like but those are the facts.

And that wasnt even the point.  You're yelling and screaming about stuff that has nothing to do with my point.

My point is; if you're a gambling man are you going to bet on the NY Jets turning it around or the Broncos?  Any fool would take the Broncos.

And that has nothing to do with the fact the Jets roster is a steaming pile of dog sh*t.

[Sperm Edwards]

People still think this is nothing but KC's agent leaking stuff to the press, to up Denver's offer?

Of course it could be, but Cimini covers 1 team.

Most likely Cimini's contacts in the FO, either underlings whispering what they shouldn't, or upper mgmt/coaches leaking it to hopefully scare off all competition. The latter would be amateurish/stupid; ultimately Denver or other KC suitors will still make their best offer no matter what has been leaked out, and KC's agent will listen to them all. 

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

Well than we'll call that EVEN! Elway drafted Simian & Lynch. Macc drafted Petty & Hack. Joseph with a better defense had less wins than Bowles & didn't play the Pats twice, lol. 

I have a couple Broncos fans friends and although they don't follow the Jets much and are not as familiar with Bowles as we are, they were telling me they'd take Bowles over Vance Joseph, sight unseen.  That's how much they are despising Joseph over there.  

[The Crusher]

Anything to be said here that hasn't been said in that monstrous Cousins thread we already have?

[JustInFudge]

Big Mac and Todd Bowles are really good at this negotiating thingy.  They really keep their sh*t close tot he vest so they can run a tight negotiation.  I mean, just look at how they handled Fitz.  These guys, are smart.

 

[Lupz27]

2 hours ago, Jetster said:

Their one, two & three RBs all got injured, the Oline was a mess, Brady fails in that same scenario.

No

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

Big Mac and Todd Bowles are really good at this negotiating thingy.  They really keep their sh*t close tot he vest so they can run a tight negotiation.  I mean, just look at how they handled Fitz.  These guys, are smart.

 

Not sure where the thread went about Cimini saying the Jets are willing to pay Cousins whatever he wants....but this was in response to that report.

@Jetster - teams that are willing to hand a blank check to another player.  Arent good teams and arent an attractive destination.  This is called, desperation.  Desperate teams are sh*tty teams.  If the Jets were a remotely attractive landing spot for Cousins, it wouldnt be necessary to hand him a blank check. 

[BrickTamland]

Playing around with numbers — see how even a huge contract will not bankrupt or kill the jets cap:

Im playing with a 40m signing bonus. It would be relatively low, compared to 50 that Stafford got recently. On the other hand, this contract is HUGE in guaranteed salary over the first few years. I will err on the side of overpaying just to prove the point.

2018

8m signing bonus +

30m guaranteed salary =

cap hit of 38m

2019

8m signing bonus +

27m guaranteed salary =

cap hit of 35m

2020

8m signing bonus +

20m guaranteed salary =

cap hit of 28m

2021

8m signing bonus +

18m non-guaranteed salary =

cap hit of 26m

2022

8m signing bonus +

22m non-guaranteed salary =

cap hit of 30m

———

this contract would average almost 31.5m per year over 5 years. Seems about right on the “per year” number. Like i said earlier, maybe im even giving too much.

Guarantees total 117m. All except 16m of that would come off the books after year 3. At that point, he would be “semi-cuttable”...as cutting him would save us 10m of his 26m cap hit. Not at all great but doable if necessary.

A higher portion could be saved if the contract is drawn up with more guaranteed roster money in the first 3 years and lowering the signing bonus.

After year 4, he could be cut to save 22m of his 30m cap hit.

Kirk would find this hard to turn down with 117m guaranteed money — all in his pocket after his first three years. 

Nobody could match without effing up their roster, except browns.

———

With regard to cap ramifications, the contract would count 

2018--38m against our approximate 110m cap space, leaving us 70+ for other spending

2019--35m against our approximate 135m+ cap space...

From then on, the cap hits are more “reasonable” and in line with what good starters will be paid throughout the league as new contracts are signed.

———

These extravagant costs, imo, are a “fair” price for a good, healthy, known quantity starting qb—especially compared with risks and trade up costs for a qb in draft.

[bla bla bla]

35 minutes ago, Grandy said:

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-jets-pay-whatever-takes-154848534.html

According to Cimini, the Jets are willing to pay whatever it takes to sign Cousins. With us having the resources to do so, Cousins in the Big Apple is looking more like reality everyday.

Getting him would be idealistic. He instantly becomes the best QB we've ever had, and he's not even hit his prime yet. He's posted top 8 numbers, while behind a poor supporting cast over his last 3 seasons. WE sign him, build up in the draft, and we have a contending team.

I've said it before, I think we have too much money for the amount of players hitting the market. I think it is naïve to think that we sign top players with the $40M we give Cousins year 1 that we couldn't have attracted with the $70M prior to a Cousins deal. I think we'll need to overpay for players to come here so if I'm blowing money on 1 position it's for QB.

$70M should be more than enough to get CB(2x), TE, C/G, LB. I think we can get an Edge and RB early in the draft. I'd like to address WR in some way but would prefer the secondary FA WRs, pick in our top 4 selections, or picking up a player when cuts come around. IMO LT will be the one potential big need in 2019 when we'd have all our draft picks and $45M in cap. 

[BCJet]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

Denver just had their first losing season in the past 7 years breaking in a rookie Head Coach and starting 3 different QB's.  They've been to the Super Bowl twice in the last 5 years and won one of them.

I know I dont have to talk about the Jets success or lack there of, I'm sure you're well aware of how long it's been since the Jets have been to the playoffs, let alone the Super Bowl.

I think the entire world views Denver as a better landing spot outside of NY/NJ because the Jets suck and are a joke of a franchise while Denver has been one of the most successful franchises in the league.  It's not about the confidence in the current roster.  It's about the confidence in the franchise and the guys making the decisions.  Pretty sure Denver has the Jets beat in the dept. as well.

The Jet are light years away from being competitive and Denver might just be a QB away from another SB appearance with or without Talib.  

If Cousins was really looking for a win now turn key roster, he'd go to the Vikings and not even think twice. 

 

 

Light years away from being competitive?

In your opinion is the following a reasonable  scenario:

The Jets add Ryan Jensen, Paul Richardson and basically any CB in FA along with cousins.

Then add Quentin Nelson at 6, any pass rusher with one second round pick and either a RB or WR with the other.

Is that team worse then the broncos?  The truth is that Brandon Shell and Kelvin Beachem are much better players then anyone on the Broncos roster, and they have very little money to add a lineman in FA.

Yes denver has a good history, which is why Elway isn't getting skewered like Mac for not building a good OLine, hiring a bad, defensive-minded coach, and drafting a terrible QB in round 1

[Lupz27]

7 minutes ago, BrickTamland said:

Playing around with numbers — see how even a huge contract will not bankrupt or kill the jets cap:

Im playing with a 40m signing bonus. It would be relatively low, compared to 50 that Stafford got recently. On the other hand, this contract is HUGE in guaranteed salary over the first few years. I will err on the side of overpaying just to prove the point.

2018

8m signing bonus +

30m guaranteed salary =

cap hit of 38m

2019

8m signing bonus +

27m guaranteed salary =

cap hit of 35m

2020

8m signing bonus +

20m guaranteed salary =

cap hit of 28m

2021

8m signing bonus +

18m non-guaranteed salary =

cap hit of 26m

2022

8m signing bonus +

22m non-guaranteed salary =

cap hit of 30m

———

this contract would average almost 31.5m per year over 5 years. Seems about right on the “per year” number. Like i said earlier, maybe im even giving too much.

Guarantees total 117m. All except 16m of that would come off the books after year 3. At that point, he would be “semi-cuttable”...as cutting him would save us 10m of his 26m cap hit. Not at all great but doable if necessary.

A higher portion could be saved if the contract is drawn up with more guaranteed roster money in the first 3 years and lowering the signing bonus.

After year 4, he could be cut to save 22m of his 30m cap hit.

Kirk would find this hard to turn down with 117m guaranteed money — all in his pocket after his first three years. 

Nobody could match without effing up their roster, except browns.

———

With regard to cap ramifications, the contract would count 

2018--38m against our approximate 110m cap space, leaving us 70+ for other spending

2019--35m against our approximate 135m+ cap space...

From then on, the cap hits are more “reasonable” and in line with what good starters will be paid throughout the league as new contracts are signed.

———

These extravagant costs, imo, are a “fair” price for a good, healthy, known quantity starting qb—especially compared with risks and trade up costs for a qb in draft.

101 mill guaranteed and 31.5 per for an average QB is what stupid franchises do, so yeah sounds about right.

[Lupz27]

7 minutes ago, BCJet said:

 

Is that team worse then the broncos?

Yes 

[JoJoTownsell1]

11 minutes ago, JiF said:

Big Mac and Todd Bowles are really good at this negotiating thingy.  They really keep their sh*t close tot he vest so they can run a tight negotiation.  I mean, just look at how they handled Fitz.  These guys, are smart.

 

Is there a story that you can link that even suggest that unnamed (let alone named sources) from within the Jets are saying this? I know it's the cool thing on this board to bash the Jets and make LOL Safety jokes, but this is the time of year where you hear tons of misinformation. 

You know what we didn't hear at all last season before the draft? That the Bears, who just signed Glennon, would be going hard after Trubisky.

Maybe the Jets are going hard after Cousins, maybe Cousin's agent is trying to drive the price up and leaking information to these reporters. 

[dbatesman]

8 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Yes denver has a good history, which is why Elway isn't getting skewered like Mac for not building a good OLine, hiring a bad, defensive-minded coach, and drafting a terrible QB in round 1

I think it's probably also the two Super Bowl appearances in five years thing, but I could be wrong on that

[JustInFudge]

18 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Light years away from being competitive?

In your opinion is the following a reasonable  scenario:

The Jets add Ryan Jensen, Paul Richardson and basically any CB in FA along with cousins.

Then add Quentin Nelson at 6, any pass rusher with one second round pick and either a RB or WR with the other.

Is that team worse then the broncos?  The truth is that Brandon Shell and Kelvin Beachem are much better players then anyone on the Broncos roster, and they have very little money to add a lineman in FA.

Yes denver has a good history, which is why Elway isn't getting skewered like Mac for not building a good OLine, hiring a bad, defensive-minded coach, and drafting a terrible QB in round 1

Yes.  Light years away.  The roster is a dumpster fire with zero talent at a single position that matters.  

Meanwhile, the Broncos have 2 of the best players in the league at 2 of the most important positions in all of Football even after Talib is gone in Harris and Miller. 

The Broncos can do all those same thingies you're exicted about the Jets doing.  Now, maybe they cant be as aggressive in FA if they land Cousins but they can certainly pick players just like the Jets can in the draft.  And they wouldnt need to be as aggressive as the Jets in FA because they're a much more talented roster than the Jets.

The biggest difference? Denver is Denver and the Jets are the Jets.  Denver is one of the best franchises in the NFL.  The Jets are one of the worst in all of sports.  It's a small detail but it typically matters when trying to court potential FA's and probably why Mac has failed to land a significant FA since he's been here. 

 

 

 

[RutgersJetFan]

4 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I think it's probably also the two Super Bowl appearances in five years thing, but I could be wrong on that

yeah but other than that what has elway even done

[bla bla bla]

7 minutes ago, BrickTamland said:

Playing around with numbers — see how even a huge contract will not bankrupt or kill the jets cap:

Im playing with a 40m signing bonus. It would be relatively low, compared to 50 that Stafford got recently. On the other hand, this contract is HUGE in guaranteed salary over the first few years. I will err on the side of overpaying just to prove the point.

2018

8m signing bonus +

30m guaranteed salary =

cap hit of 38m

2019

8m signing bonus +

27m guaranteed salary =

cap hit of 35m

2020

8m signing bonus +

20m guaranteed salary =

cap hit of 28m

2021

8m signing bonus +

18m non-guaranteed salary =

cap hit of 26m

2022

8m signing bonus +

22m non-guaranteed salary =

cap hit of 30m

———

this contract would average almost 31.5m per year over 5 years. Seems about right on the “per year” number. Like i said earlier, maybe im even giving too much.

Guarantees total 117m. All except 16m of that would come off the books after year 3. At that point, he would be “semi-cuttable”...as cutting him would save us 10m of his 26m cap hit. Not at all great but doable if necessary.

A higher portion could be saved if the contract is drawn up with more guaranteed roster money in the first 3 years and lowering the signing bonus.

After year 4, he could be cut to save 22m of his 30m cap hit.

Kirk would find this hard to turn down with 117m guaranteed money — all in his pocket after his first three years. 

Nobody could match without effing up their roster, except browns.

———

With regard to cap ramifications, the contract would count 

2018--38m against our approximate 110m cap space, leaving us 70+ for other spending

2019--35m against our approximate 135m+ cap space...

From then on, the cap hits are more “reasonable” and in line with what good starters will be paid throughout the league as new contracts are signed.

———

These extravagant costs, imo, are a “fair” price for a good, healthy, known quantity starting qb—especially compared with risks and trade up costs for a qb in draft.

Preach! The argument needs to be can you win with a player like Cousins who compares to a Stafford or Ryan? Money should not be the reason anyone is afraid of a Cousins signing.

Cousins + $70M + high picks > $111M in players that are only signing with us because we overpaid + trading picks to move up to #3 for a QB

 

I have no real issue with a fully guaranteed deal either because if you told me I could have Matt Ryan on a deal that was 0% guaranteed for 5 years $150M he'd likely play out all 5 years and would see $30M per year anyway. By guaranteeing it you just prevent yourself from cutting a player but even then Revis got a fully guaranteed deal from the Buccs if he was on the roster, I don't see why Kirk couldn't do the same thing except be locked in for 3 years before you could cut with no penalty. It allows Kirk to test FA again (after receiving $100M guaranteed) or continue to make guaranteed money each year and it would give the Jets an out while only sacrificing a comp 3rd pick and cap space. The cap space after year 3 will likely be for a lower % of money since the first 2 years will be so heavily front loaded.

[JustInFudge]

5 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Is there a story that you can link that even suggest that unnamed (let alone named sources) from within the Jets are saying this? I know it's the cool thing on this board to bash the Jets and make LOL Safety jokes, but this is the time of year where you hear tons of misinformation. 

You know what we didn't hear at all last season before the draft? That the Bears, who just signed Glennon, would be going hard after Trubisky.

Maybe the Jets are going hard after Cousins, maybe Cousin's agent is trying to drive the price up and leaking information to these reporters. 

I dont know where it went but I posted that comment in a thread quoting Cimini saying the Jets will give Cousins a whatever he wants ie; a blank check

 

[JustInFudge]

5 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I think it's probably also the two Super Bowl appearances in five years thing, but I could be wrong on that

In addition, the Broncos have participated in 8 Super Bowls and won 3 of them since the last time the Jets made the Super Bowl.  But that's not a very important detail when weighing pros vs. cons with the Jets and Broncos.

 

[flgreen]

32 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Anything to be said here that hasn't been said in that monstrous Cousins thread we already have?

Wait till you see the monstrous thread we have when the Jets miss out on Cousins and sign Geno on the cheap. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

Yes.  Light years away.  The roster is a dumpster fire with zero talent at a single position that matters.  

Meanwhile, the Broncos have 2 of the best players in the league at 2 of the most important positions in all of Football even after Talib is gone in Harris and Miller. 

The Broncos can do all those same thingies you're exicted about the Jets doing.  Now, maybe they cant be as aggressive in FA if they land Cousins but the can certainly pick players just like the Jets can in the draft.  And they wouldnt need to be as aggressive as the Jets in FA because they're a much more talented roster than the Jets.

The biggest difference? Denver is Denver and the Jets are the Jets.  Denver is one of the best franchises in the NFL.  The Jets are one of the worst in all of sports.  It's a small detail but it typically matters when trying to court potential FA's and probably why Mac has failed to land a significant FA since he's been here. 

 

 

 

The Broncos are hoping to win with the same talent they used to win the SUper Bowl (maybe worse if they let Talib go) a couple of years back. How often does that work in the NFL? Aging rosters of teams that used to be good tend to be the teams that get blown apart around this time. Not to mention the Broncos may have the only NFL coach demonstrably worse than the Jets. The broncos have less cap space and don't have an extra second round pick. 

The Broncos greatest attraction is John Elway who's last two big QB draft picks were Osweiller and Lynch. 

 

[JoJoTownsell1]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

I dont know where it went but I posted that comment in a thread quoting Cimini saying the Jets will give Cousins a whatever he wants ie; a blank check

 

Was it Cimini saying it, or was it Cimini citing a Jets source. The only thing I can recall was a "League" source which could be a Browns Exec spreading typical pre-free agency/Draft disinformation. 

Personally, I tend to think the Jets are going to go hard after Cousins, I just don't think the Jets are telling people. I think people are putting 2 and 2 together. QB needy team + tons of Cap space + 6th pick (which isn't good enough land the top 2 or 3 QBs) = Cousins. 

[dbatesman]

2 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

The Broncos greatest attraction is John Elway who's last two big QB draft picks were Osweiller and Lynch. 

Since Cousins is going to be a free agent, I think Elway's track record in attracting FAs is more relevant than his draft picks. Now that I think about it, didn't Elway sign some free agent QB a few years ago? Can't remember the guy's name, but I feel like I saw something on Sportscenter about it.

[Barkus]

5 minutes ago, JiF said:

I dont know where it went but I posted that comment in a thread quoting Cimini saying the Jets will give Cousins a whatever he wants ie; a blank check

 

Cimini has been a jets beat reporter for close to a quarter of a century and has never broken any inside info that I can recall. At this stage of his career he’s just mailing it in so I doubt he will be breaking any significant news now. He’s just throwing his useless opinion out there.