Will giants take Barkley?

[BrickTamland]

without looking toooo deeply into the numbers, the following is what stands out with regards to Giants' roster. maybe it will help us to make a determination as to their goals in the draft. money speaks volumes.

- Simply put, the Giants are in cap hell next year, sitting with around 14M in cap space in 2019. (for context, the jets have 119M). Since some contracts are still being signed, these numbers are not perfect, but theyre good enough to illustrate that the Giants are in cap hell.

- Despite Giants' lack of space, they just poured big/medium money into Solder, Ogletree, Martin

- Eli recently turned 37

- The fan reaction to eli's benching and the subsequent house cleaning suggests that Eli will be allowed to walk out on his own terms

- Davis webb was a 3rd rd pick. but he was chosen by previous organization

- their best player OBJ is going to demand more than 15M per year after this year

- Landon Collins is also a FA after this year

- cutting Eli next year would save 17M

- cutting Olivier next year would save 11M

- cutting Pierre Paul would save 9M

- cutting Janoris Jenkins would save 8M

- so, there is the ability to clear some space next year. However, it would come at the cost of their very best players.

My initial thoughts are that:

Giants have a decent to good roster heading into this year. Last year they were killed by injuries. Also, it seems like ownership decided to pin a good amount of blame on the former coaching staff.

While their QB is aging, his talents do not require elite physical traits...instead Eli depends on decent to good protection while he stands in the pocket. (Like Brady in that regard). With that in mind, its no surprise that they gave Pats' LT Solder big money.

Next year the Giants are going to have some difficult financial decisions as they have a number of high-priced vets on both sides of the ball. It would make sense that Giants would want to secure a potential future franchise QB given all the money tied up elsewhere on the team. However, another way to look at it is that the team could use an injection of young talent at other positions (ie Barkley) while they still have to pay their QB.

With all this in mind, my humble opinion is that the Giants will play this close to the vest until the draft, and see if they can get one of those sensational bounties (multiple 1st round and 2nd round picks) in a trade down. If no radical deal works out, my guess is that they go with Barkley in an attempt to stay relevant these next couple of years. I would not be surprised if they later took a QB for development to pair with Webb as a future Prospect.

[MDL_JET]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Totally agree. There are a lot of ways to justify a Saquon pick there because he’s a no-doubt star on and off the field. That said, they’d have to at least consider a Jets team winning for a decade with the QB they passed on would suck for them

Unless he helps them to a superbowl...

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, Patriot Killa said:

Broncos don’t really have the ammo. You have to understand, when the Jets traded with the Colts, they overpriced the market. According to the value chart(I understand it’s outdated), they overpaid by 600- some points. So the #2 pick’s price drove up as the #3 pick was sold for more than expected. Elway doesn’t strike me as someone who is trading up either. His comments were “We signed Keenum to give ourselves flexibility in the draft.” I think they feel like they got a competent guy and now have the luxury to accept whoever falls to them. If it isn’t a QB. They can take a non-QB prospect and grab a rookie in a later round.

But if they wanted Nelson, 5/6 is pretty safe place to trade back. Sure giants could plunk a starter instead of draft pick. The fact they are either asking a ton for the pick ( assuming Mac tried with them ) or just want to keep it says they aren’t thinking Nelson. They sure could have used the picks we gave colts, and would be even more since it’s 2 not 3. Pissed we couldn’t get that pick 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

Unless he helps them to a superbowl...

Saquon? I don’t know, man. That team was 2-14 for a bunch of different reasons. They’re closer to a tear down than a title run

[JohnnyLV]

41 minutes ago, bitonti said:

best case he's Barry Sanders at 230

worst case (defending a bust to his bosses) he had a ridiculous college career and better SPARQ numbers than 98.5% of current NFL running backs 

https://3sigmaathlete.com/rankings/running-back/

I was a doubter before the combine and many will say that's not a reason to draft anyone. But that workout was historic and drafting Barkley doesn't get anyone fired. Mac probably hopes it goes Allen - Darnold - Barkley.

Mayfield and Rosen could be great, could get you fired.

Darnold is the chalk pick, Allen is an ideal Mac/GM mindset pick cause he buys like 4 years. Barkley sells jerseys for 3 or 4 seasons.

I don't know what's going to happen in the draft but a good start is to assume Mac does everything to not get fired and work from there.  He's taken a risk in moving up but he's still not mister risk taker. 

Yes, everyone thinks we traded up for QB, but I do think there is about a 10% chance we traded up to get Barkley. Let's face it, Bowles seems to have athe bigger voice on personnel and he did say he wants to run more and already promised the starting job to McClown. It is not impossible.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, T0mShane said:

Saquon? I don’t know, man. That team was 2-14 for a bunch of different reasons. They’re closer to a tear down than a title run

once you understand this, you realize the giants are taking rosen unless the bills go nuts offering picks.  but the reality is that the giants are a year away from being the worst team by far in the division.  eli is the worst qb in the division.  the lockerroom needs new leaders.  

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, johnnysd said:

Yes, everyone thinks we traded up for QB, but I do think there is about a 10% chance we traded up to get Barkley. Let's face it, Bowles seems to have athe bigger voice on personnel and he did say he wants to run more and already promised the starting job to McClown. It is not impossible.

it's pretty simple: the jets are drafting a qb.  and bates has more input on this than bowles, which just shows you how the owners view things.  bowles is not involved in any part of this process.  the owners want the gm to pick a qb, the hc knows nothing about offense and the new OC is very important right now.  and bowles may not last the season if he keeps the new qb inactive.  bowles' position is very tenuous right now.  

[MDL_JET]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Saquon? I don’t know, man. That team was 2-14 for a bunch of different reasons. They’re closer to a tear down than a title run

They were just in the playoffs the year before. I think more of it had to do with Mcadoo then anything else. The defense can still be good and the offense has the parts, young, it's just a running game and protection that's always been missing from that team. They haven't had a good back since Bradshaw left. 

I'm trying to think as a GM for that team and i'm looking at the roster, Eli can still get it done, I just need to protect him and get us a run game.    It's a weird situation. 

[Patriot Killa]

14 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Yes, everyone thinks we traded up for QB, but I do think there is about a 10% chance we traded up to get Barkley. Let's face it, Bowles seems to have athe bigger voice on personnel and he did say he wants to run more and already promised the starting job to McClown. It is not impossible.

The Jets are not taking running back when they just signed Crowell and have Powell and McGuire coming back next season. There is zero reason for them to take Barkley. That idea that it’s possible is insane. the Jets have their QB’s on one year deals. Let’s not try to make this situation more complex than what it actually is.

its a QB. A QB of the future was always the #1 goal to be quite frank.

[bitonti]

8 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

 the owners want the gm to pick a qb, the hc knows nothing about offense and the new OC is very important right now.  and bowles may not last the season if he keeps the new qb inactive.  bowles' position is very tenuous right now.  

5

the owner is out of the country. Neither man is in immediate danger of getting fired in 2018. they didn't even get close to being fired after 5-11. This seat is not warm. 

the Jets are on keep the lights on mode until Woodrow gets back or TB12 takes his last drink of alkaline water. whichever comes first. 

[bitonti]

Just now, Patriot Killa said:

The Jets are not taking running back when they just signed Crowell and have Powell and McGuire coming back next season. There is zero reason for them to take Barkley. That idea that it’s possible is insane. the Jets have their QB’s on one year deals. Let’s not try to make this situation more complex than what it actually is.

its a QB. A QB of the future was always the #1 goal to be quite frank.

Powell could be easily cut with or without Barkley. Don't go buying any Bilal Powell jerseys, you guys  

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, bitonti said:

Powell could be easily cut with or without Barkley. Don't go buying any Bilal Powell jerseys, you guys  

They have expressed interest in keeping him on this year is the reason that I even say that.

[nyjunc]

On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 5:52 PM, kevinc855 said:

Went st party’s day drinking with a lot of giants fan today and we were together when trade happened. Seems like the fan base wants Barkley over qb? This fan base Is so loyal to Eli and feels he has some more time left with Davis Webb learning the ropes. Feel Barkley gives Eli the best chance to start winning now. It’s great if that happens since then we get rosen most likely, but wonder what the giants front office is thinking 

it's the same fanbase that wanted Eli out prior to the 2007 run and prior to the 2011 run. B/c their D led them to 2 titles they now have this loyalty to their mediocre QB. so much so they ran Coughlin out of town then ran a coach who replaced Coughlin out of town and that coach won 11 games in his only full season there w/ Eli leading the O to 17 PPG. I hope they keep Eli another 5 years, he's been holding them back since 2012, why not a few more years?

[Augustiniak]

Just now, bitonti said:

the owner is out of the country. Neither man is in immediate danger of getting fired in 2018. they didn't even get close to being fired after 5-11. This seat is not warm. 

the Jets are on keep the lights on mode until Woodrow gets back or TB12 takes his last drink of alkaline water. whichever comes first. 

the owners want a new qb, and mccagnan is going to pick one.  if it's not allen, there will be a cry to get this guy into games by midseason if the team has a losing record.  bowles may not see things this way.  good luck keeping rosen on the bench for that long.  good luck keeping mayfield on the bench that long.  and bridgewater's contract only has $500K guaranteed, so the jets could cut him in TC if the rookie shows something.  

all i'm saying is, bowles can't hide this qb for long, unless it's allen.  the other 3 are going to play sooner than later and if bowles gets in the way of that process he's gone, not the rookie qb.

[Sonny Werblin]

1 minute ago, MDL_JET said:

They were just in the playoffs the year before. I think more of it had to do with Mcadoo then anything else. The defense can still be good and the offense has the parts, young, it's just a running game and protection that's always been missing from that team. They haven't had a good back since Bradshaw left. 

I'm trying to think as a GM for that team and i'm looking at the roster, Eli can still get it done, I just need to protect him and get us a run game.    It's a weird situation. 

It is a mindset. Regardless of the realities of the Giants unseating the Eagles or competing with a much more talented Cowboys team, the Giants -- from the front office to parking attendant -- always believe they are just a couple of players and a few beaks away from another SB win. sh*t --- why wouldn't they? They had no business winning 3 of their 4 SBs. I say they feel like they have another run in them and they go Barkley, or surprise us and take Chubb. 

In their minds they think -- we're the giants, when we need another QB one will fall into our lap.

[Jetscreen]

They'd be NUTS not to take him? The Giants have a QB, but the very best player in this draft is Saquon Barkley.

[BrickTamland]

1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said:

The Jets are not taking running back when they just signed Crowell and have Powell and McGuire coming back 

I agree with your conclusion that we wont take barkley.

However, neither Powell nor McGuire are guarantees to even make the team next year. Drafting someone (ie Ballage 4th rd) this year makes Bilal expendable. McGuire is whatever.

[Patriot Killa]

3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

it's the same fanbase that wanted Eli out prior to the 2007 run and prior to the 2011 run. B/c their D led them to 2 titles they now have this loyalty to their mediocre QB. so much so they ran Coughlin out of town then ran a coach who replaced Coughlin out of town and that coach won 11 games in his only full season there w/ Eli leading the O to 17 PPG. I hope they keep Eli another 5 years, he's been holding them back since 2012, why not a few more years?

It’s amazing that if you slap AFC Championship games in there instead of titles...it becomes your exact situation with Mark Sanchez.

lol. I’m sorry. I had too.

rlly tho.

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, BrickTamland said:

I agree with your conclusion that we wont take barkley.

However, neither Powell nor McGuire are guarantees to even make the team next year. Drafting someone (ie Ballage 4th rd) this year makes Bilal expendable. McGuire is whatever.

They want to keep Powell on this year though from what I understand. He may not get another contract after this year but I think he’s safe.

[BrickTamland]

Just now, Patriot Killa said:

They want to keep Powell on this year though from what I understand. He may not get another contract after this year but I think he’s safe.

I like him. But the jets often under appreciate the dude

[C Mart]

Pat Kirwan just said on Sirius it wouldn't surprise him if the Giants took Bradley Chubb at #2 or flip w/the Jets and take him at #3

[MDL_JET]

4 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Pat Kirwan just said on Sirius it wouldn't surprise him if the Giants took Bradley Chubb at #2 or flip w/the Jets and take him at #3

Well Pat, that would surprise the hell out of me. And a dumb pick for the Giants. I hope it happens.

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Pat Kirwan just said on Sirius it wouldn't surprise him if the Giants took Bradley Chubb at #2 or flip w/the Jets and take him at #3

They’ve got Vernon and JPP locked up through the end of the 2019 season. 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, MDL_JET said:

Well Pat, that would surprise the hell out of me. And a dumb pick for the Giants. I hope it happens.

what do you expect, he was once in the jets front office.

[nyjunc]

2 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

It’s amazing that if you slap AFC Championship games in there instead of titles...it becomes your exact situation with Mark Sanchez.

lol. I’m sorry. I had too.

rlly tho.

I agree, Eli and Sanchez are very similar.  The biggest difference is in title game and Sbs Eli's D and Sts played great and Mark's did not. also, NYg kept adding talent around Eli.  he went from Tiki, Toomer  and Shockey to Plax to Cruz and Nicks to those 3 good Rbs in the SB years to Odell... they are always bringing in talent while we had talent the first couple of years then expected Mark to do it on his own. Both played very well in their playoff runs but they won b/c of great D.  They were complimentary pieces not stars. 

Eli has been mediocre/bad post 2011.  the names have changed, the faces have changed, the coaches have changed but the results have mostly stayed the same. The excuses in recent years centered around the OL but isn't it funny how in demand the former Giants OL were in FA this year? and good QBs can make bad OLs look better.  Eli couldn't do it b/c he's not a guy that elevates talent, he can win if everything around him is really good. Same thing w/ Mark.

[Greensleeves]

On 3/18/2018 at 12:48 PM, funaz said:

Who cares. RBs are a throw away pick. The difference between the best and worst rb is marginal, it's mostly the online that makes a rb productive.

Smart teams don't look at RBs until round 3

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
 

Did we move back in time? Elite running backs are now sought after. Zeke, Gurley, Fournette - you think those teams weren't smart to take them? They are big reasons for the success of those teams. Did you see Dallas play without Zeke? Their offense went down the tubes. A great RB today can make a QB look good and open up the offense. Barkley is thought to be better than most of the guys I just mentioned. 

[rangerous]

5 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Just from reading some of their fans posts. It seems like the organization really likes Webb and feels that they can add a QB in the second/third round with the confidence that they can develop a QB.

only our fan base and the Browns feel bad about developing QB’s..or talent in general lmao

like i said, maybe they think webb is the guy but remember this is a new coach who has no ties to ELIte or webb and may want his own qb.  and as good as barkley may be outside of ron johnson have they ever gone high first round for a rb? i suspect what the giaints do will be determined by any otas they have before the draft.

[BigRy56]

Have there been any legitimate reports of the Giants taking a QB? I don't see them... they are either going in another direction or this is the greatest smokescreen ever

[nyjunc]

5 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

Have there been any legitimate reports of the Giants taking a QB? I don't see them... they are either going in another direction or this is the greatest smokescreen ever

I think most still expect them to go QB unless they are blown away by a trade offer(possible).  One of their biggest needs, if not their biggest need, is at QB.  They would be foolish to ignore it but I hope they do.

[Patriot Killa]

3 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

Have there been any legitimate reports of the Giants taking a QB? I don't see them... they are either going in another direction or this is the greatest smokescreen ever

They have went to Rosen’s pro day. That’s about all I heard or seen.

[Grandy]

All the signings, and reports point towards the Giants as a win now team with a 2-3 year window. Taking a QB would make sense if they were in rebuild like us, but in their case they take the most ready, and the best player in Barkley.

[k-met57]

ive talked myself into the giants not taking a QB. i dont see it...

- i think they want to compete for the division next year, thats a hard sell in the lockerroom when you first overall pick is standing on the sideline holding a board

- drafting someone like Rosen would cause issues the first game Eli throws a few pics

 

ive also talked myself in the giants not wanting to drop down to 12, only question is do the bills go to 6 and THEN go to 2?

[Pcola]

5 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Yes, everyone thinks we traded up for QB, but I do think there is about a 10% chance we traded up to get Barkley. Let's face it, Bowles seems to have athe bigger voice on personnel and he did say he wants to run more and already promised the starting job to McClown. It is not impossible.

While I don’t agree that this will happen, it probably should at least be an option.

Darnold and Rosen are the prizes of the draft.  If they go 1-2, than you have to ask yourself, what kind of Pros are Mayfield and Allen going to be?  What is the chances that they don’t fulfill their potential?  Is it possible that they will be top 5 QB in the league?  Top half?  

If not, then would you rather have the 20th or 25th rated QB or a top 3 offensive player in the league, in Barkley?  Or a guy that is basically guaranteed to have double digit sacks?

It’s pretty much guaranteed Darnold and Rosen are going to 3.  But most mocks have Allen and Mayfield falling.  It’s actually possible that the trade up was for Rosen but Barkley or Chubb may be a better back up plan that reaching for Mayfield or Allen.

[Patriot Killa]

16 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

ive talked myself into the giants not taking a QB. i dont see it...

- i think they want to compete for the division next year, thats a hard sell in the lockerroom when you first overall pick is standing on the sideline holding a board

- drafting someone like Rosen would cause issues the first game Eli throws a few pics

 

ive also talked myself in the giants not wanting to drop down to 12, only question is do the bills go to 6 and THEN go to 2?

Colts didn’t want to drop out of the top 10 to begin with and they won’t do it now .. that’s why they traded with us instead of just talking 12 originally.

[k-met57]

12 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Colts didn’t want to drop out of the top 10 to begin with and they won’t do it now .. that’s why they traded with us instead of just talking 12 originally.

yes but now they have our two's...the game has changed a bit...2 trade downs nets you more assets then one.