This offense

[munchmemory]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

mayfield is 23 and was considered more ready to play in the nfl - darnold is 21 and many said he could use a red-shirt year.  so now we're seeing it.  

it is important to remember, though, that the browns defense beat the snot out of rothlisburger, caused many turnovers, and also held the saints to 21 pts in the dome.  it's not like they're just doing this to darnold - they also did this to 2 HOF qbs to start the season.

Totally get what you're saying.  I just for the first time saw mayfield and kinda see what the Browns could have found.  Kid walked into that huddle like he'd been playing for five years.  You don't see that very often.

Agree also that the Browns' D is very good.  Their rookie corner looks like a player.  And their pass rusher Garrett (?) is a beast.

[shawn306]

4 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

mayfield is 23 and was considered more ready to play in the nfl - darnold is 21 and many said he could use a red-shirt year.  so now we're seeing it.  

it is important to remember, though, that the browns defense beat the snot out of rothlisburger, caused many turnovers, and also held the saints to 21 pts in the dome.  it's not like they're just doing this to darnold - they also did this to 2 HOF qbs to start the season.

This and then some.

The Browns are going to win a few games this year. Heck the way the Raiders are playing right now I could see the Browns beating them in Oakland.

Darnold had a rough game last night. Hopefully he learns from it (Which I think he will) and take it to the next game.

[NoBowles]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

It's pretty simple.  What were the results when he tried to throw downfield?  Seems like the design made some sense. My point is that on the plays that weren't WR screens he did sh*t.

When did he throw downfield in a good throwing situation for our offense? I didn't see it. He made a few nice passes that were somewhat down the field. The one Robby fumbled was a good throw.

Most came at the end in desperation time, with the defense playing to cover deep and kill the QB, which they have the personnel to do.

He made bad passes, looked uncomfortable all game, I am not in the least denying that. I am saying the coaching staff put him in a terrible position from the start. If they don't think he can run the offense they want to run, sit him, its that simple. But if you are going to play him, put him in a position to succeed and play to his strengths, not pussy football.

 

[munchmemory]

Jeremy Bates' new nickname: "Mr. Bubble Screen".

[JustInFudge]

14 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I agree the playcalling was a mess, but how much does that have to do with Darnold not being able to handle a vertical offense?

Him getting under center and trying to run play action just looks bad. He didnt do that in college. Play to his strengths. 

Maybe I missing something here but how do you have a vertical offense with no vertical threats (Anderson and Pryor suck) and not enough time in the pocket for someone to get downfield?  

The kids first TD was like 40 yards.  He can do it when it’s there.  

I think you’re being a bit harsh on him, personally.  He was nowhere near as bad as you are making him out to be.  This offense is just wacky right now, whether it’s OL, talent or play calling, we don’t really know.  But what I see is a kid that rarely sees a clean pocket, always has tough down and distance to work with, constantly faced with overcoming penalties and terrible field position, is taken out is rythym with bizarre plays calls proceeding nice plays and basically no run support (though Powell got free a few times last night) and it’s mixed it with great pocket presence, great accuracy on the run, good ball placement and for the most part quick good decisions with the ball.  

This team is dog sh*t.  Acting like some 21 year old rookie is going to come in a just sling it all around the field and attack on all levels and just intimidate opposing D’s is legit ridiculous.  Never happens that way.  Ever.  

[Gastineau Lives]

19 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

This is not a david carr situation.  He is not getting killed back there.  The oline isnt great but they arent terrible.

Darnold is seeing ghosts and there is no justification for it.  The oline is not that bad.

Darnfold

Darnold throws 3 picks and fumbles away game for Jets.

This was you three hours before the game yesterday in the Headline thread. To be so invested in the failure and ridicule of the first real shot we have had at a franchise QB after two games in his NFL career, one in which he put up a 116 passer rating and the other where he got Pryor'd and Herndon'd, Anderson'd and then to come on and Itoldyouso gloat is absolute garbage.

I'm not saying anything about you as a person, but as a poster and alleged Jet fan, you are absolute trash.

[MDL_JET]

Bates is just calling a bad game. You can’t expect to move the ball when you’re playing lateral. I get the idea behind the game plan but it wasn’t working. 

Spread it out and move fast. I don’t know why there’s such issues getting in and out of the huddle but it’s been a problem since pre season. Darnold doesn’t need to be throwing deep but I’d rather we attack with 10-15 yard throws then ask Enunwa to break one off a screen. 

[bealeb319]

I will counter with Quincy is the only playmaker we have around darnold period and our run game is atrocious which could have a direct relation too our offensive line being doodoo

Sent from my [device_name] using http://JetNation.com mobile app

[Augustiniak]

12 minutes ago, shawn306 said:

This and then some.

The Browns are going to win a few games this year. Heck the way the Raiders are playing right now I could see the Browns beating them in Oakland.

Darnold had a rough game last night. Hopefully he learns from it (Which I think he will) and take it to the next game.

the browns should have beaten the steelers and maybe the saints too.  but that still doesn't absolve the jets coaches for crafting an offensive gameplan in the 2nd half that assured defeat.  the irony is that they ran the ball so much to 'protect' the rookie qb, but in the end all it did was produce too many 3rd and long situation and put darnold in the worst situations possible.  what about throwing on first or second down?  what about a trick play - flea flicker or reverse - to punish the browns for overpursuing?  what about a bomb to robbie anderson to keep the defense honest?  just like the dolphins, the browns started jumping routes and other teams will start doing it too b/c the jets coaches are reining darnold in.

when they named darnold the starter we all assumed that meant they were on board with cultivating his talents, his creativity and his moxie.  the past two weeks they've reigned him in and he looks like sanchez did after rex got sick of the turnovers.  but this team - this offense - sucks.  most guys not named enunwa and powell would not start for other teams in the nfl.  they are a severely undermanned unit.  most of the draft picks and $$ is on the defense.  the offense has, for the most part, crappy wrs, crappy TEs and crappy OL.  

[JustInFudge]

5 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Darnfold

Darnold throws 3 picks and fumbles away game for Jets.

This was you three hours before the game yesterday in the Headline thread. To be so invested in the failure and ridicule of the first real shot we have had at a franchise QB after two games in his NFL career, one in which he put up a 116 passer rating and the other where he got Pryor'd and Herndon'd, Anderson'd and then to come on and Itoldyouso gloat is absolute garbage.

I'm not saying anything about you as a person, but as a poster and alleged Jet fan, you are absolute trash.

He’s literring every thread with it too.

was it Darnold’s fault when they were up 14-0?  Or when he led a 6 minutes drive in the 4th, giving the Jets the lead?  Did he fumble a huge 3rd down conversion?  Get multiple personal fouls and numerous other penalties?  His fault Crowell whiped his ass? Give up big 3rd down conversions on D too? 

Lmfao

[August]

We should’ve kept Bridgewater...

[Augustiniak]

6 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

Bates is just calling a bad game. You can’t expect to move the ball when you’re playing lateral. I get the idea behind the game plan but it wasn’t working. 

Spread it out and move fast. I don’t know why there’s such issues getting in and out of the huddle but it’s been a problem since pre season. Darnold doesn’t need to be throwing deep but I’d rather we attack with 10-15 yard throws then ask Enunwa to break one off a screen. 

try trick plays, flea flicker, reverse.  throw it downfield, stretch the defense, make cleveland think they could get burned deep.  roll out, chuck short passes to the TE in the flat.  no creativity.  just a scared bowles offense as usual, sitting on a lead, then when the score is inevitably tied, they play for the FG and then the defense chokes at the end as usual.  this has happened numerous times when fitz and mccown were the qbs too.  the one constant is bowles.

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

Before you looney birds get carried away crushing Sam 3-games in, let’s talk about the holistic turd that is Mac’s offense.

1. Sam is 21, and a gambler, he’s gonna make throws he shouldn’t. Ideally he gets to a point where he over-compensates for the bad ones with brilliance.

2. Hiring Bates wasn’t going to change that this franchise has neglected the O for 10 years. Our last 1st round OL were Brick and Mangold, both now retired. 

3. Dennison and his scheme is a nice hire. It works when you have talent to implement it. We don’t.

4. Q is a nice role-player WR. Not a #1 or #2 by any stretch of the imagination. He’s great after the catch, but doesn’t separate well. Most of his catches are contested. Still, he’s a bright spot.

5. Robbie and Pryor. Neither of these guys are very good route runners. Most they excel at getting vertical, which is useless if your QB can’t stand in the pocket for more than 2-3 seconds. These are situational players that aren’t refined. It was epically stupid not to throw BANK at Landry in FA. He’s a phenomenal WR. We need major help at this position. Kearse is a jag as well. These guys are fast-ish, but none of them is really a change the game type of player.

6. Our RBs aren’t half bad. Powell is good in pass pro, and has excellent vision. He’s great for the zone blocking scheme. He should be on the field more, but often raises his hand for a breather. I have no problem with Crowell, but in today’s NFL, you need a RB that can catch you 75 passes. Especially with a bad OL and now WRs. 

7. The OL, it’s just not talented enough, because it’s perpetually neglected. Imagine if Mac had taken an OL with each of the wasted picks who haven’t stayed on the team more than a year or two... the reluctance to take OL and the failure to draft every other position we’ll is why we are here.

8. Bowles is who decides to go prevent when Baker comes in and tries to squat on a 14pt lead with 30+ minutes left. He’s an abomination of a coach.

In summary, we are a 5-6 win team if we’re lucky. Mac has failed to add talent for 4 years, on the heels of Tanny/idzik/Rex doing it for 6 years.

Nothing changed between this year and last, except that we added Darnold after Mac panicked away draft capital from missing out on Cousins.

So, my fellow crazies... maintain perspective. Don’t give up on Sam, our next regime may thrive with him. This regime is a typical mess.

I agree with 90 % of what you say here but I think this HC does not get what he needs to get out of his players and still plays guys out of position.  He is as you say an abomination

[bostonmajet]

31 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

This is not a david carr situation.  He is not getting killed back there.  The oline isnt great but they arent terrible.

Darnold is seeing ghosts and there is no justification for it.  The oline is not that bad.

You lost me after 'aren't terrible'; not a single game has Darnold had even close to the time to throw that Baker got last night. We can't pressure the QB without an all out blitz, and we cannot protect our QB against a 4 man rush...

[Matt39]

12 minutes ago, JiF said:

Maybe I missing something here but how do you have a vertical offense with no vertical threats (Anderson and Pryor suck) and not enough time in the pocket for someone to get downfield?  

The kids first TD was like 40 yards.  He can do it when it’s there.  

I think you’re being a bit harsh on him, personally.  He was nowhere near as bad as you are making him out to be.  This offense is just wacky right now, whether it’s OL, talent or play calling, we don’t really know.  But what I see is a kid that rarely sees a clean pocket, always has tough down and distance to work with, constantly faced with overcoming penalties and terrible field position, is taken out is rythym with bizarre plays calls proceeding nice plays and basically no run support (though Powell got free a few times last night) and it’s mixed it with great pocket presence, great accuracy on the run, good ball placement and for the most part quick good decisions with the ball.  

This team is dog sh*t.  Acting like some 21 year old rookie is going to come in a just sling it all around the field and attack on all levels and just intimidate opposing D’s is legit ridiculous.  Never happens that way.  Ever.  

Probably being harsh. But he's not seeing the field well, and the arm strength is a real concern. The difference between his arm and Mayfield's was evident. Is he capable of driving the ball down the field into tight windows? He wasnt asked to do that a ton at USC.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Probably being harsh. But he's not seeing the field well, and the arm strength is a real concern. The difference between his arm and Mayfield's was evident. Is he capable of driving the ball down the field into tight windows? He wasnt asked to do that a ton at USC.

i don't see his arm strength as an issue.  the issue is that he knows his line can't protect him so he's looking to get rid of the ball as soon as he can, and it's making the offense very predictable as guys are starting to jump pass routes.  

[nj meadowlands]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Probably being harsh. But he's not seeing the field well, and the arm strength is a real concern. The difference between his arm and Mayfield's was evident. Is he capable of driving the ball down the field into tight windows? He wasnt asked to do that a ton at USC.

I think he definitely is, and we've seen it already a little bit when he decisively drills slants and skinny posts, or when he rolls out and makes an absurd circus throw to an impossible target.  Problem in that regard is that Bates has not bothered to organize any kind of sustained, downfield attack (maybe it's because our receivers have been shockingly bad?).  I had nightmares of rocket screens all night long (by the way, we run that play way too much, and it's going to get jumped / pick sixed by a corner in the next few weeks - mark my words)

[sec101row23]

5 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

try trick plays, flea flicker, reverse.  throw it downfield, stretch the defense, make cleveland think they could get burned deep.  roll out, chuck short passes to the TE in the flat.  no creativity.  just a scared bowles offense as usual, sitting on a lead, then when the score is inevitably tied, they play for the FG and then the defense chokes at the end as usual.  this has happened numerous times when fitz and mccown were the qbs too.  the one constant is bowles.

But realistically what can you really do when you can’t run the ball effectively and the O line is suspect?  

I mentioned after the Lion game that defenses are going to look at how the Jets had success and were going to take away those 10-15 yard passs to Enunwa and force Darnold outside the numbers and down field.  Defenses are stacking that 10 yard box between the numbers and not allowing anything in there.  That’s why the run game only had a little success outside the tackles and every receiver that went across the middle had two guys on them.  That’s inevitably where Sam threw that costly INT.  

 

[sec101row23]

6 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Probably being harsh. But he's not seeing the field well, and the arm strength is a real concern. The difference between his arm and Mayfield's was evident. Is he capable of driving the ball down the field into tight windows? He wasnt asked to do that a ton at USC.

Lol...did you even watch him at USC?  Those comments suggest you were watching another team.  

[Smashmouth]

Lets all hope and pray we wind up in a situation like the Rams.

Jets owner finally realizes his HC is a buffoon and might very well hurt the development of his new young QB.

Goes out an hires a competent HC that will change the culture Bowles has failed to build.

New HC has big effect in young Sam Darnold by not only changing things around here but by going out and spending money where it needs to be spent to help the young QB at the skill positions and OL.

This team needs a legit Number 1 WR because in the coming weeks our running game will suffer like it has in past years because no one fears our passing game at all.

I think this team has some talent I think Bowles is the wrong guy to cultivate said talent that includes the Defense 

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

But realistically what can you really do when you can’t run the ball effectively and the O line is suspect?  

I mentioned after the Lion game that defenses are going to look at how the Jets had success and were going to take away those 10-15 yard passs to Enunwa and force Darnold outside the numbers and down field.  Defenses are stacking that 10 yard box between the numbers and not allowing anything in there.  That’s why the run game only had a little success outside the tackles and every receiver that went across the middle had two guys on them.  That’s inevitably where Sam threw that costly INT.  

 

you have to take a few shots downfield.  you have to.  i also think you have to roll darnold out more when the pass rush is that severe.  it's not his fault the OL has been ignored by the gm for years.  but the OC needs to get creative to get first downs, and handing off 1st and 2nd down and then asking darnold to consistently make 3rd and 8 is NOT the way to break in a rookie qb.

[The Crusher]

22 minutes ago, JiF said:

Maybe I missing something here but how do you have a vertical offense with no vertical threats (Anderson and Pryor suck) and not enough time in the pocket for someone to get downfield?  

The kids first TD was like 40 yards.  He can do it when it’s there.  

I think you’re being a bit harsh on him, personally.  He was nowhere near as bad as you are making him out to be.  This offense is just wacky right now, whether it’s OL, talent or play calling, we don’t really know.  But what I see is a kid that rarely sees a clean pocket, always has tough down and distance to work with, constantly faced with overcoming penalties and terrible field position, is taken out is rythym with bizarre plays calls proceeding nice plays and basically no run support (though Powell got free a few times last night) and it’s mixed it with great pocket presence, great accuracy on the run, good ball placement and for the most part quick good decisions with the ball.  

This team is dog sh*t.  Acting like some 21 year old rookie is going to come in a just sling it all around the field and attack on all levels and just intimidate opposing D’s is legit ridiculous.  Never happens that way.  Ever.  

Wait a minute? You trying to say a 21 year old rookie QB in his 3rd game needs protection and receivers in order to have success? Preposterous. 

Robbie’s catch and fumble is an excellent example of what the kid is working with.  But yeah, It’s the 21 year old kids fault. 

Jet fans deserve this. 

[BCJet]

15 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

try trick plays, flea flicker, reverse.  throw it downfield, stretch the defense, make cleveland think they could get burned deep.  roll out, chuck short passes to the TE in the flat.  no creativity.  just a scared bowles offense as usual, sitting on a lead, then when the score is inevitably tied, they play for the FG and then the defense chokes at the end as usual.  this has happened numerous times when fitz and mccown were the qbs too.  the one constant is bowles.

How about this - after 4 screens, all of which are successful, fake one and instead of robby blocking, have him run by the goddamn CB and throw it deep?

When a play is working, it opens up other things, IF you actually try them

[Smashmouth]

16 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

the browns should have beaten the steelers and maybe the saints too. 

Your right but the Browns HC is just as big an Idiot as Bowles because for some strange reason he thought it was a good Idea to start Tyrod Taylor over Baker Mayfield who showed in the Pre-season he was ready to play in the NFL and Tyrod showed he was still freaking Tyrod.

The Browns have the same problem we have their HC Sucks Ass just like ours

[Augustiniak]

Just now, BCJet said:

How about this - after 4 screens, all of which are successful, fake one and instead of robby blocking, have him run by the goddamn CB and throw it deep?

When a play is working, it opens up other things, IF you actually try them

exactly.  that's what i was hoping for last night.  the browns knew what was coming and were vulnerable to other things.  

this is the 3rd qb bowles has had on the jets and the same patterns emerged - sitting on leads in the 2nd half until they evaporate, playing for fgs when you're in the red zone, defense faltering at the end.  

 

[Smashmouth]

1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

Wait a minute? You trying to say a 21 year old rookie QB in his 3rd game needs protection and receivers in order to have success? Preposterous. 

Robbie’s catch and fumble is an excellent example of what the kid is working with.  But yeah, It’s the 21 year old kids fault. 

Jet fans deserve this. 

you wait a minute.... I used to say this about Sanchez early in his career before the wheels fell completely off and we actually began to downgrade the WR position yet still expected Sanchez to produce

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

Your right but the Browns HC is just as big an Idiot as Bowles because for some strange reason he thought it was a good Idea to start Tyrod Taylor over Baker Mayfield who showed in the Pre-season he was ready to play in the NFL and Tyrod showed he was still freaking Tyrod.

The Browns have the same problem we have their HC Sucks Ass just like ours

the browns have a better overall roster than the jets, they were able to protect baker much better than we were able to protect darnold.  

[sec101row23]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

you have to take a few shots downfield.  you have to.  i also think you have to roll darnold out more when the pass rush is that severe.  it's not his fault the OL has been ignored by the gm for years.  but the OC needs to get creative to get first downs, and handing off 1st and 2nd down and then asking darnold to consistently make 3rd and 8 is NOT the way to break in a rookie qb.

Agree, you need to take shots no doubt.  They have rolled him out some,  but those are usually for shorter passes.  The problem with designed roll outs on deeper plays is that it cuts the field in half and allows the defense to get over the top easier, thus making those plays much harder to complete.  

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

Square pegs, round holes right now on offense.  

No pegs, round holes on right now on offense.

[The Crusher]

2 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

you wait a minute.... I used to say this about Sanchez early in his career before the wheels fell completely off and we actually began to downgrade the WR position yet still expected Sanchez to produce

We downgraded Sanchez’s receivers by his third game ? Don’t remember that. Sanchez had an all world line and couple  seasons of good receivers along with hall of fame running back catching balls out of backfield. 

Other than that practically indetical situation. 

[sec101row23]

Just now, TeddEY said:

No pegs, round holes on right now on offense.

Yes, you could argue they are devoid of pegs all together.  

[Smashmouth]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

the browns have a better overall roster than the jets, they were able to protect baker much better than we were able to protect darnold.  

thats pretty evident but thats not what I was saying in the post you Quoted .... My point was both coaches suck and in the NFL you need a smart HC or you are not winning sh*t

[JustInFudge]

10 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Probably being harsh. But he's not seeing the field well, and the arm strength is a real concern. The difference between his arm and Mayfield's was evident. Is he capable of driving the ball down the field into tight windows? He wasnt asked to do that a ton at USC.

I’m honestly not worried about any of that.  I think it’s all there.  He doesn’t have a cannon arm but it’s plenty strong. 

Sam Darnold can be very good in this league if the Jets don’t get in the way.  For example; he should have sat the first 4 games IMO the rush to start him was stupid.  

Not a single 1st rounder this season opened as the week 1 starter other than Sam, at 21, on a sh*tty team, with a terrible OL, playing 3 games in 11 days vs some very good D’s.  Moronic to start him IMO but whatevs.  Is what it is.  

 

[Jetsplayer21]

5 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

you wait a minute.... I used to say this about Sanchez early in his career before the wheels fell completely off and we actually began to downgrade the WR position yet still expected Sanchez to produce

Sanchez had the best OL in NFL in his 1st 2 years, we expect Darnold to survive by have 1 of worst his first 2 ?

[Matt39]

9 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Lol...did you even watch him at USC?  Those comments suggest you were watching another team.  

I pulled this up last night just to cross reference what I was seeing. He excels on the short crossers. Anything down the field he was lollypopping.