This offense

[Integrity28]

Before you looney birds get carried away crushing Sam 3-games in, let’s talk about the holistic turd that is Mac’s offense.

1. Sam is 21, and a gambler, he’s gonna make throws he shouldn’t. Ideally he gets to a point where he over-compensates for the bad ones with brilliance.

2. Hiring Bates wasn’t going to change that this franchise has neglected the O for 10 years. Our last 1st round OL were Brick and Mangold, both now retired. 

3. Dennison and his scheme is a nice hire. It works when you have talent to implement it. We don’t.

4. Q is a nice role-player WR. Not a #1 or #2 by any stretch of the imagination. He’s great after the catch, but doesn’t separate well. Most of his catches are contested. Still, he’s a bright spot.

5. Robbie and Pryor. Neither of these guys are very good route runners. Most they excel at getting vertical, which is useless if your QB can’t stand in the pocket for more than 2-3 seconds. These are situational players that aren’t refined. It was epically stupid not to throw BANK at Landry in FA. He’s a phenomenal WR. We need major help at this position. Kearse is a jag as well. These guys are fast-ish, but none of them is really a change the game type of player.

6. Our RBs aren’t half bad. Powell is good in pass pro, and has excellent vision. He’s great for the zone blocking scheme. He should be on the field more, but often raises his hand for a breather. I have no problem with Crowell, but in today’s NFL, you need a RB that can catch you 75 passes. Especially with a bad OL and now WRs. 

7. The OL, it’s just not talented enough, because it’s perpetually neglected. Imagine if Mac had taken an OL with each of the wasted picks who haven’t stayed on the team more than a year or two... the reluctance to take OL and the failure to draft every other position we’ll is why we are here.

8. Bowles is who decides to go prevent when Baker comes in and tries to squat on a 14pt lead with 30+ minutes left. He’s an abomination of a coach.

In summary, we are a 5-6 win team if we’re lucky. Mac has failed to add talent for 4 years, on the heels of Tanny/idzik/Rex doing it for 6 years.

Nothing changed between this year and last, except that we added Darnold after Mac panicked away draft capital from missing out on Cousins.

So, my fellow crazies... maintain perspective. Don’t give up on Sam, our next regime may thrive with him. This regime is a typical mess.

[sec101row23]

Square pegs, round holes right now on offense.  

[Joe W. Namath]

The offense is fine.  The qb cant complete a vertical pass.  The problem is darnold, not the offense.

[Xtina]

 

12 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

8. Bowles is who decides to go prevent when Baker comes in and tries to squat on a 14pt lead with 30+ minutes left. He’s an abomination of a coach.

Abomination! 

[NoBowles]

5 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

The offense is fine.  The qb cant complete a vertical pass.  The problem is darnold, not the offense.

I honestly don't understand how someone could have watched that game last night and came away with this?

[#27TheDominator]

5 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

I honestly don't understand how someone could have watched that game last night and came away with this?

I certainly can.  When 75% of your passing yards come on WR screens, something isn't right.  

[Pac]

Ugh..  Sam was abysmal last night.  He was more culpable than any other player or coach in the loss.  Is he the only reason?  No.  Was he the biggest reason? Yes.

Josh should have started the year but that ship sailed.

Good news is I think Darnold will be fine..  he just turned 21.

[JustInFudge]

I personally hate what I’m seeing from this scheme.  Too lateral, too many empty backfields, too many misdirections with the ball in the air, stupid.  Just move the hall down field.  Too many draw type delayed runs.  

That said, it’s really hard to judge an offense when your OL can’t block for sh*t. 

[Sonny Werblin]

Agree with the OP except Landry was not a FA. Fins franchised him and traded him to the Browns. IMO, there is no way the Fins would have traded him to the Jets, but the Jets could have easily outbid the 4th and 7th round picks the Fins got in the trade. Crazy right? a #1 WR for 4th and 7th round picks!!??

[NoBowles]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

I certainly can.  When 75% of your passing yards come on WR screens, something isn't right.  

And you don't think that was by design by the coaching staff? You think they were calling for vertical passing plays on some percentage of those and Darnold said f you and checked out and said, screen baby?

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I certainly can.  When 75% of your passing yards come on WR screens, something isn't right.  

I mean we have to be honest here....they're playing scared with Darnold. The passes at the end, like the deep ball down the sideline were ducks. 

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, Pac said:

Ugh..  Sam was abysmal last night.  He was more culpable than any other player or coach in the loss.  Is he the only reason?  No.  Was he the biggest reason? Yes.

Josh should have started the year but that ship sailed.

Well, if we’re talking shoulda woulda coulda... Teddy should have started. Mac will piss away the 3rd rounded we got anyway. Teddy wouldn’t have been much more successful, but at least we wouldn’t be showered Sam in bad reps.

And to be clear, your takes on QBs are the longest running joke on JN.

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Agree with the OP except Landry was not a FA. Fins franchised him and traded him to the Browns. IMO, there is no way the Fins would have traded him to the Jets, but the Jets could have easily outbid the 4th and 7th round picks the Fins got in the trade. Crazy right? a #1 WR for 4th and 7th round picks!!??

I stand corrected. I convinced myself, wrongly, he was s FA. Thanks.

[Sperm Edwards]

It amazes me that any Jets fans could look at that expressionless + silent Bowles on the sideline, or Macc female-crossing his legs in pre-draft scout meetings before selecting his upcoming crop of outright or relative disappointments, and think to themselves something to the effect of:

"Know what? These are exactly the guys I'd pick to right this ship. They are experts in solving any problems that arise because they just plain know what they're doing. They have (and have had) a great plan, stemming from their proven and sound philosophies. The Jets are lucky to have them because they'll soon deliver perpetual contenders and at least one SB winner."

[NoBowles]

Just now, Matt39 said:

I mean we have to be honest here....they're playing scared with Darnold. The passes at the end, like the deep ball down the sideline were ducks. 

Im not going to make excuses for those passes, they were bad, that said, that was as bad of a position to be throwing those passes as possible. The defense knows exactly whats coming, so they give you the middle fo the field, cover everyone, and blitz the sh*t out of you. So the throws are under immense pressure which will always destroy mechanics.

The time to take those shots is to setup the defense, and catch them at a time when your QB can plant his feet and throw the ball. To my recollection, we did not do that once all night.

We also established no passing rhythm whatsoever. Every single time Darnold made a nice pass, which was somewhat rare last night, they followed it up with something to ruin his rhythm. 

Coaching matters, a lot. People were calling Goff a huge bust, look at him with McVey over Fisher. 

We have had 3 OC's in 4 seasons under Bowles, 2, he pulled off the retirement scrap heap. WTF is that?

[sec101row23]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

I personally hate what I’m seeing from this scheme.  Too lateral, too many empty backfields, too many misdirections with the ball in the air, stupid.  Just move the hall down field.  Too many draw type delayed runs.  

That said, it’s really hard to judge an offense when your OL can’t block for sh*t. 

Agreed.  I do think it’s a product of an Offensive coordinator trying to scheme around a bad O line, while trying to give a rookie QB some easy, confidence building throws.  

[Pac]

3 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Well, if we’re talking shoulda woulda coulda... Teddy should have started. Mac will piss away the 3rd rounded we got anyway. Teddy wouldn’t have been much more successful, but at least we wouldn’t be showered Sam in bad reps.

And to be clear, your takes on QBs are the longest running joke on JN.

Dont worry bro..  you're not the only one posting stupid sh*t this morning.  

[Integrity28]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I mean we have to be honest here....they're playing scared with Darnold. The passes at the end, like the deep ball down the sideline were ducks. 

There were throws he made where in the replay he’s not even holding the ball right. He’s rushing and not getting set. He’s not comfortable. It’s gotten worse each week. A few more weeks of this and the happy feet set in, then he’s a 50/50 bet to ever develop fully.

**** the NFL for setting us up for the kill in this early schedule. **** team leadership for not recognizing that our 21yo qb would be starting 3 games in 11 days. McCown starts even week 1 and it gives Sam more time to prep. Though not sure if that’s help.

[Augustiniak]

i keep writing this - while the defense has a few 1st round picks and high priced FAs the offense is a random collection of guys, most of whom would not be on other teams' rosters.  noone on that offense is worth a damn besides enunwa and powell.

[Integrity28]

2 minutes ago, Pac said:

Dont worry bro..  you're not the only one posting stupid sh*t this morning.  

Ooh I cut deep, didn’t i? Lolololol

[section314]

Good post.  Let me add a few thoughts............1) Our 1st down failure is inexcusable. How many times are we 2nd and 10 or worse? We are basically playing 2 down offense. 2) Seen way too much of Robby Anderson. We waived the wrong WR the other day. 3) Get ball back , need TD, all 3 TO"s left plus 2 minute warning. It's ok to run the ball, especially given the defense Browns were in. 4) Are Trumaine Johnson and Claiborne really any better than Skrine? They kill us.

[munchmemory]

Right off the bat, Mayfield threw into really tight windows.  Darnold looked like bad-Obie/Sanchez last night with his happy feet and din 'n' dunk throws.

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

There were throws he made where in the replay he’s not even holding the ball right. He’s rushing and not getting set. He’s not comfortable. It’s gotten worse each week. A few more weeks of this and the happy feet set in, then he’s a 50/50 bet to ever develop fully.

**** the NFL for setting us up for the kill in this early schedule. **** team leadership for not recognizing that our 21yo qb would be starting 3 games in 11 days. McCown starts even week 1 and it gives Sam more time to prep. Though not sure if that’s help.

Not an expert in QB play, but on the eye test, any time Darnold has to throw to his left its been a mess. 

[Joe W. Namath]

This is not a david carr situation.  He is not getting killed back there.  The oline isnt great but they arent terrible.

Darnold is seeing ghosts and there is no justification for it.  The oline is not that bad.

[Matt39]

6 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Im not going to make excuses for those passes, they were bad, that said, that was as bad of a position to be throwing those passes as possible. The defense knows exactly whats coming, so they give you the middle fo the field, cover everyone, and blitz the sh*t out of you. So the throws are under immense pressure which will always destroy mechanics.

The time to take those shots is to setup the defense, and catch them at a time when your QB can plant his feet and throw the ball. To my recollection, we did not do that once all night.

We also established no passing rhythm whatsoever. Every single time Darnold made a nice pass, which was somewhat rare last night, they followed it up with something to ruin his rhythm. 

Coaching matters, a lot. People were calling Goff a huge bust, look at him with McVey over Fisher. 

We have had 3 OC's in 4 seasons under Bowles, 2, he pulled off the retirement scrap heap. WTF is that?

I agree the playcalling was a mess, but how much does that have to do with Darnold not being able to handle a vertical offense?

Him getting under center and trying to run play action just looks bad. He didnt do that in college. Play to his strengths. 

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Not an expert in QB play, but on the eye test, any time Darnold has to throw to his left its been a mess. 

Week 1 Robbie TD was to his left, no? I don’t think it’s every time, but I see what you’re saying. Frankly anytime his target Inst Q

[JustInFudge]

6 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Agreed.  I do think it’s a product of an Offensive coordinator trying to scheme around a bad O line, while trying to give a rookie QB some easy, confidence building throws.  

Yep.  The one thing we don’t have insight on as fans is that.  How much of this is designed around what we are working with vs. this being the real look of the offense. 

Good thing we have a few extra days to prepare for the Jags because they are going to eat this offense alive. 

[#27TheDominator]

11 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

And you don't think that was by design by the coaching staff? You think they were calling for vertical passing plays on some percentage of those and Darnold said f you and checked out and said, screen baby?

It's pretty simple.  What were the results when he tried to throw downfield?  Seems like the design made some sense. My point is that on the plays that weren't WR screens he did sh*t.

[Matt39]

Just now, Integrity28 said:

Week 1 Robbie TD was to his left, no? I don’t think it’s every time, but I see what you’re saying. Frankly anytime his target Inst Q

It was, but that ball was also under thrown.

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Right off the bat, Mayfield threw into really tight windows.  Darnold looked like bad-Obie/Sanchez last night with his happy feet and din 'n' dunk throws.

mayfield is 23 and was considered more ready to play in the nfl - darnold is 21 and many said he could use a red-shirt year.  so now we're seeing it.  

it is important to remember, though, that the browns defense beat the snot out of rothlisburger, caused many turnovers, and also held the saints to 21 pts in the dome.  it's not like they're just doing this to darnold - they also did this to 2 HOF qbs to start the season.

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, Joe W. Namath said:

This is not a david carr situation.  He is not getting killed back there.  The oline isnt great but they arent terrible.

Darnold is seeing ghosts and there is no justification for it.  The oline is not that bad.

Free runners were through our line at the snap. Of course he’ll start seeing ghosts after a while.

It is that bad, and he made it worse. Cause and effect.

[freestater]

40 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

our next regime may thrive with him. 

Lol. C'mon. You know better. The next regime will be awful in it's own horribly hilarious way.

[Gastineau Lives]

7 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Right off the bat, Mayfield threw into really tight windows. 

He did not such thing.

[NoBowles]

3 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I agree the playcalling was a mess, but how much does that have to do with Darnold not being able to handle a vertical offense?

Him getting under center and trying to run play action just looks bad. He didnt do that in college. Play to his strengths. 

Playing to his strengths is coaching. Chiefs have largely modified their offense for Mahomes. That is what good coaches do. Our coach puts on his vajayjay hat on and tries to play without a QB.

[UntouchableCrew]

Obviously Darnold was bad but I don't know how anyone could watch last night's game and not feel like the obvious culprit is the offensive line. We cannot run the ball at all and we cannot protect at all. There was penetration on almost every single play. That's why we're running all these quick screens -- we cannot block for a seven step drop and unlike the Giants who just watch Eli get sacked Bates is trying to scheme around the deficiencies. 

It's going to be a long year.