We need better players

[ChuckkieB]

The Jets need playmakers on offense and it's been the GM's failure to get any.  I agree with those who feel that Mac needs to be aggressive and try to get Sam a weapon NOW or at least upgrade the WR's somehow via a trade before this season ends.  Otherwise, the season can get away from Sam real quick as he starts to form bad habits which will definitely happen if he has to continue to trust a bunch of stiffs to make plays.

[jets rooter]

I said it before and I will say it again,It is very obvious that the jets front office.must undergo a major change,From the very top to the scouts.

[varjet]

23 minutes ago, jets rooter said:

I said it before and I will say it again,It is very obvious that the jets front office.must undergo a major change,From the very top to the scouts.

Sunday was Exhibit A.  The Vikings got good, maybe not fantastic, Center play from Pat Elflein.  It cost them a 3rd round 2017 draft pick and $871K of cap space.  Elflein was a very good OL from The Ohio State University.  In the NFL, that is about as good as money in the bank as you can get in the Draft.  

Mac peed away his 2017 3rd Round draft pick and $ to Adarius Stewart and paid Spencer Long $6.6mm of cap space to perform worse then Elflein.  

Williamson looks good.  Tru Johnson looks like a gross overpay, and Pryor a waste of $5mm.

Mac has made some good moves, but at the minimum he needs a partner.  This job is too big for him to do alone.  

People use the Rams as an example of what the Jets can be.  Fire the defensive HC and replace with a young offensive mind to go with the QB, and the sky is the limit.  I see similarities to the Lions and Stafford.  Great young QB, but mediocre results because of a bad overall roster and coaching.   Darnold will get extended once or twice and never make the playoffs unless we can get him a better team.  

What do the Johnson's want the Jets to be?  The Rams, or the Lions?

[rammagen]

again coaching has to play a part. why are we not developing players. You could have the best gm in the world if the coach can develop talent then it is a moot point

[Jets Voice of Reason]

3 hours ago, JiF said:

It's really simple.  Stop drafting non-impact defensive positions.  No matter how good you think the player is or how cant miss of a prospect you think they are, they dont impact the game enough.  The game is controlled on offense.  The game is won by making more plays on offense.  The game is won by outscoring the opponent.  Draft players that can help you, control the game, score and win.

Simple formula; if they're not a CB or pass rusher, dont select them.  You can find every other position in FA and get the same results, most of the time, better results.  

Draft; OL and skills positions and keep doing until you hit.  Do not, address these positions via FA.  They rarely work. 

Seriously, it's not hard.   It just takes someone with the brains and the balls to pass up on "the cant miss DT or S" in the draft.  Who cares if their cant miss?  They dont impact the game.  Take the players that do and those dudes, play offense. 

Anyone who watches a jets game and then a rams or chiefs game and you realize that the league is filled with like 4 teams that can win it, about 4 truly awful teams, and everyone else at about the same mediocre level. 

This is something where the answer is incredibly obvious, but we continue to enforce and mandate a blueprint from the 80s. 

[joewilly12]

37 minutes ago, varjet said:

Sunday was Exhibit A.  The Vikings got good, maybe not fantastic, Center play from Pat Elflein.  It cost them a 3rd round 2017 draft pick and $871K of cap space.  Elflein was a very good OL from The Ohio State University.  In the NFL, that is about as good as money in the bank as you can get in the Draft.  

Mac peed away his 2017 3rd Round draft pick and $ to Adarius Stewart and paid Spencer Long $6.6mm of cap space to perform worse then Elflein.  

Williamson looks good.  Tru Johnson looks like a gross overpay, and Pryor a waste of $5mm.

Mac has made some good moves, but at the minimum he needs a partner.  This job is too big for him to do alone.  

People use the Rams as an example of what the Jets can be.  Fire the defensive HC and replace with a young offensive mind to go with the QB, and the sky is the limit.  I see similarities to the Lions and Stafford.  Great young QB, but mediocre results because of a bad overall roster and coaching.   Darnold will get extended once or twice and never make the playoffs unless we can get him a better team.  

What do the Johnson's want the Jets to be?  The Rams, or the Lions?

The Johnson's say they want to win but as long as they are making money I don't really think it matters to them, look how quick Woody took the position and fled to London how many other NFL team owners would have done that. 

[#27TheDominator]

6 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

The Johnson's say they want to win but as long as they are making money I don't really think it matters to them, look how quick Woody took the position and fled to London how many other NFL team owners would have done that. 

Yes, he fled to the United Kingdom, like John and John Quincy Adams, James Monroe, Martin Ven Buren and Joseph P. Kennedy before him.  Can you imagine the nerve?  

[genot]

5 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

The Johnson's say they want to win but as long as they are making money I don't really think it matters to them, look how quick Woody took the position and fled to London how many other NFL team owners would have done that. 

Lol. How many owners were asked by the President to be an ambassador.

[Adoni Beast]

3 hours ago, JiF said:

It's really simple.  Stop drafting non-impact defensive positions.  No matter how good you think the player is or how cant miss of a prospect you think they are, they dont impact the game enough.  The game is controlled on offense.  The game is won by making more plays on offense.  The game is won by outscoring the opponent.  Draft players that can help you, control the game, score and win.

Simple formula; if they're not a CB or pass rusher, dont select them.  You can find every other position in FA and get the same results, most of the time, better results.  

Draft; OL and skills positions and keep doing until you hit.  Do not, address these positions via FA.  They rarely work. 

Seriously, it's not hard.   It just takes someone with the brains and the balls to pass up on "the cant miss DT or S" in the draft.  Who cares if their cant miss?  They dont impact the game.  Take the players that do and those dudes, play offense. 

Exactly. I love Jamal Adams and Marcus Maye, I really do. But they have had little impact on wins vs. losses. 

[joewilly12]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

Yes, he fled to the United Kingdom, like John and John Quincy Adams, James Monroe, Martin Ven Buren and Joseph P. Kennedy before him.  Can you imagine the nerve?  

Do you think he will follow in their foot steps or have as much of an impact on history like they did?  I say NO 

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, genot said:

Lol. How many owners were asked by the President to be an ambassador.

So Jerry Jones or Zygi Wolf would've gone? 

[#27TheDominator]

8 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

So Jerry Jones or Zygi Wolf would've gone? 

Since Woody took over the Jets the Cowboys have won a grand total of 2 playoff games.  The Vikings have also won 2 since Wilf took over.  One was the miracle against the Saints last year and the other was a rout of Jerry Jones Cowboys. An absentee owner isn't necessarily a bad thing.  Remember how well the Yankees did when George was suspended?

[joewilly12]

3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Since Woody took over the Jets the Cowboys have won a grand total of 2 playoff games.  The Vikings have also won 2 since Wilf took over.  One was the miracle against the Saints last year and the other was a rout of Jerry Jones Cowboys. An absentee owner isn't necessarily a bad thing.  Remember how well the Yankees did when George was suspended?

My point is the dedication to the team and wanting to win and compete in the NFL. 

We lose the NY Jets still make money. 

Beer and concessions aren't half price when we lose. 

Do you think Leon Hess would have settled for this? 

[#27TheDominator]

18 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

My point is the dedication to the team and wanting to win and compete in the NFL. 

We lose the NY Jets still make money. 

Beer and concessions aren't half price when we lose. 

Do you think Leon Hess would have settled for this? 

My point is that an owner that sticks his nose in everything is a negative.  Jerry Jones is a sh*tty owner.  You are asking for Daniel Snyder.  That has not gone well over here. 

[JustInFudge]

15 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Anyone who watches a jets game and then a rams or chiefs game and you realize that the league is filled with like 4 teams that can win it, about 4 truly awful teams, and everyone else at about the same mediocre level. 

This is something where the answer is incredibly obvious, but we continue to enforce and mandate a blueprint from the 80s. 

Yep.  Who's your 4?  Rams and Saints - Pats and Chiefs?

When you see what guys like Mahomes, Goff, Brees, Cousins, Big Ben, Brady, and even Cousins have to work with, it's no wonder they're all leading their division...you could even squeeze the other division leader in there too, the Texans.  Watson has some serious weapons at his disposal and are winning despite probably the worst OL play in the league.  The only guy doing it without is Smith..but even there Peterson is having a great year, Reed is legit and all those shifty little WR's fit his dink and dunk style.  For as much as people give credit for Rodgers doing it with nothing; Adams is awesome and Graham can still play (plus Cobb is nasty when healthy)  Much better than anything the Jets have for sure.

The teams who all built on D?  Jags, Jets, Browns, Broncos, Ravens, Titans, Bears, Cowboys, Eagles, Bengals, Dolphins, etc. are all going to need things to be perfect to make a deep postseason run.

 

[UntouchableCrew]

4 hours ago, JiF said:

It's really simple.  Stop drafting non-impact defensive positions.  No matter how good you think the player is or how cant miss of a prospect you think they are, they dont impact the game enough.  The game is controlled on offense.  The game is won by making more plays on offense.  The game is won by outscoring the opponent.  Draft players that can help you, control the game, score and win.

Simple formula; if they're not a CB or pass rusher, dont select them.  You can find every other position in FA and get the same results, most of the time, better results.  

Draft; OL and skills positions and keep doing until you hit.  Do not, address these positions via FA.  They rarely work. 

Seriously, it's not hard.   It just takes someone with the brains and the balls to pass up on "the cant miss DT or S" in the draft.  Who cares if their cant miss?  They dont impact the game.  Take the players that do and those dudes, play offense. 

You're totally right, but what scares me is that Mac's track record drafting WRs is actually worse than his track record drafting pre-Darnold QBs. It's not like he hasn't tried to draft weapons, he's just drafted garbage. Devin Smith, Ardarius Stewart, Chad Hansen -- none are even on NFL rosters.

[joewilly12]

11 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

My point is that an owner that sticks his nose in everything is a negative.  Jerry Jones is a sh*tty owner.  You are asking for Daniel Snyder.  That has not gone well over here. 

What has Woody done that is so successful?  

I like Woody Johnson met him numerous times at NY Jets events. 

[JustInFudge]

28 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

You're totally right, but what scares me is that Mac's track record drafting WRs is actually worse than his track record drafting pre-Darnold QBs. It's not like he hasn't tried to draft weapons, he's just drafted garbage. Devin Smith, Ardarius Stewart, Chad Hansen -- none are even on NFL rosters.

I got to admit, WR is a tricky position to draft.  Might be the trickiest position next to QB to draft out of all the positions.  What makes it so challenging is the cant miss guys might be the easiest to spot of any position (Jones, Green, Johnson, Beckham, etc. of the world) but once you get into the next category it's probably the most slippery slope of any position.  Not to excuse our GM's but I've screamed for WR's on numerous occasions and we've gone a different direction and I was furiously right.  And then, a few where I was wrong but it really didnt hurt us.

That said, we dont even try.  Devin Smith and Stephen Hill are the earliest shot's we've taken at WR since Santana Moss.  It's a passing league.  That's totally insane. 

[varjet]

1 hour ago, Adoni Beast said:

Exactly. I love Jamal Adams and Marcus Maye, I really do. But they have had little impact on wins vs. losses. 

The 2017 Redraft pick at 6 was MAYBE Mahomes, if he even made it to 6.  But that is hindsight.  You can justify the Adams pick at 6.  

It is possible that Maye, who is a good player when healthy, was an overdraft where the Jets picked him.  

Here are the players picked after Maye.  There were also players like John Johnson and Eddie Jackson picked in lower rounds who would have been good if not better safeties.  

The Jets drafting is just completely clueless.  It will hold back the team, even with Darnold.

2	40	Carolina Panthers	Curtis Samuel	WR	Ohio State	Big Ten
	2	41	Minnesota Vikings	Dalvin Cook	RB	Florida State	ACC	from Cincinnati [R2 - 6]
	2	42	New Orleans Saints	Marcus Williams	S	Utah	Pac-12
	2	43	Philadelphia Eagles	Sidney Jones	CB	Washington	Pac-12
	2	44	Los Angeles Rams	Gerald Everett	TE	South Alabama	Sun Belt	from Buffalo [R2 - 7]
	2	45	Chicago Bears	Adam Shaheen	TE	Ashland	GLIAC	from Arizona [R2 - 8]
	2	46	Indianapolis Colts	Quincy Wilson	CB	Florida	SEC
	2	47	Baltimore Ravens	Tyus Bowser	OLB	Houston	The American
	2	48	Cincinnati Bengals	Joe Mixon	RB	Oklahoma	Big 12	from Minnesota [R2 - 9]
	2	49	Washington Redskins	Ryan Anderson	OLB	Alabama	SEC

[GREENBEAN]

You guys are right. You can't blame Macc for the injuries but he can not let this team stay depleted at the skill positions for the next few weeks. He needs to make a move or else Darnold will regress badly the next couple of weeks against the Bears and Dolphins. You saw what he looked like today without Enunwa, Powell and Pryor. This organization can NOT hang this kid out to dry. Be aggressive and get this kid some damn playmakers!

Where do you get those guys from mid season? Who are we talking about?

Remember that wr we got from the bills mid season and he looked really good for a couple of weeks so we signed him. Then he did what he did to be available mid season and sh*t the bed?
Who was that guy? I can almost see his face but then again I might be thinking of my mail man.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[UntouchableCrew]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

I got to admit, WR is a tricky position to draft.  Might be the trickiest position next to QB to draft out of all the positions.  What makes it so challenging is the cant miss guys might be the easiest to spot of any position (Jones, Green, Johnson, Beckham, etc. of the world) but once you get into the next category it's probably the most slippery slope of any position.  Not to excuse our GM's but I've screamed for WR's on numerous occasions and we've gone a different direction and I was furiously right.  And then, a few where I was wrong but it really didnt hurt us.

That said, we dont even try.  Devin Smith and Stephen Hill are the earliest shot's we've taken at WR since Santana Moss.  It's a passing league.  That's totally insane. 

Agree, but that's really just a reflection of the fact that we've spent all of our picks on defense.

From 2010-2017 we used NINE consecutive first round picks on defense. That is insane.

There should basically be a mandate that the Jets use their next five first rounders on the offense. Everything to support Sam.

[joewilly12]

We definitely need a #1 WR 

Robby Anderson (ankle) did not practice Wednesday.

Last week, it was a hamstring problem that Anderson missed practice before playing through. Toward the end of last week's loss to the Vikings, Anderson and Xavier Rhodes got tangled up on the sideline, and both had to be helped off the field. If Anderson can't play, newly-signed Rishard Matthews may have to play immediately alongside Jermaine Kearse at wideout.

[56mehl56]

On 10/21/2018 at 6:40 PM, k-met57 said:

i mean this is it in a nutshell. give me 1 unit on this offense that is even above average.

take any unit on offense and give me 5 teams in the NFL that have less talent....ill wait.

we cant run the ball vs good teams

we drop passes all over the place

OL have1 good play, followed by 2 bad ones

 

its a matter of talent...and we dont have a lot of it.

Its what happens when your HC's have been defensive minded for well over a decade now. The O has been an afterthought when it comes to top level playmakers. Keep Bowles aboard and cringe next year when the team takes the best Dlineman , Lber  or CB on the board. Those saying Bowles has no influence on who is drafted are missing the boat by a mile. 

[56mehl56]

On 10/22/2018 at 11:37 AM, rammagen said:

again coaching has to play a part. why are we not developing players. You could have the best gm in the world if the coach can develop talent then it is a moot point

Exactly, how many games would have Adam Thelein sat on the bench if picked by the Jets. Bowles plays rookies when he has to , but would always prefer a vet at any position. 

[56mehl56]

On 10/22/2018 at 11:56 AM, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Anyone who watches a jets game and then a rams or chiefs game and you realize that the league is filled with like 4 teams that can win it, about 4 truly awful teams, and everyone else at about the same mediocre level. 

This is something where the answer is incredibly obvious, but we continue to enforce and mandate a blueprint from the 80s. 

/thread 

[Embrace the Suck]

On 10/21/2018 at 4:56 PM, GangGreenDover said:

Thts all we need is better players stop blaming the coaching if anything we should be yelling at MAC this roster is just plain out weak I like the potential in Sam Darnold bt I feel bad for him 

Hi Mrs. Bowles. While the roster should be better and upgraded the coaching needs to be better too. Coffee in Hand wouldn't be missed if he was fired too.

[Jetsfan80]

The Roster is right where it should be year two of a rebuild.

Year 2 of the 3rd rebuild? Or year 1 of the 4th rebuild?

[Mark78]

On 10/21/2018 at 5:13 PM, playtowinthegame said:

We need to trust the process ?

We need to execute 

[Jetsfan80]

Bowles just seems to keep trotting out these guys with no repercussions for poor play.  

What choice does he have? There aren’t competent players walking through that door. The roster is what it is.

[Jetsfan80]

again coaching has to play a part. why are we not developing players. You could have the best gm in the world if the coach can develop talent then it is a moot point

Coaches can’t mold garbage.

Give me talent first. We haven’t even been drafting good athletes under Macc until last year’s draft.

Bowles likely sucks but Macc very clearly sucks more.

[56mehl56]

23 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Coaches can’t mold garbage.

Give me talent first. We haven’t even been drafting good athletes under Macc until last year’s draft.

Bowles likely sucks but Macc very clearly sucks more.

 

I'd be happy if Bowles could mold anything 

[GREENBEAN]

11 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Year 2 of the 3rd rebuild? Or year 1 of the 4th rebuild?

 

HA!  That's awesome.  

Technically speaking its the 51'st year of the only rebuild. 

[Lith]

11 hours ago, Mark78 said:

We need to execute 

Who?  Bowles or Macc?  Seems a little drastic though-- just a firing should suffice. 

[section314]

10 minutes ago, Lith said:

Who?  Bowles or Macc?  Seems a little drastic though-- just a firing should suffice. 

Channeling your inner John McKay, I see.?

[Smashmouth]

On 10/21/2018 at 4:08 PM, Beerfish said:

Bad gming does not make bad coaching into good coaching.

Bad coaching does not make bad gming into good gming.

The Gm has done a terrible job of team building.

the coach, just like our last one does about 2 things good and about a dozen things bad as a head coach.

what does he do good again?