I go back and forth on who will be fired

[Larz]

I am at peace.

I wouldn't trust little macc to spend the money and draft anyone else

I wouldn't trust Bowles to outcoach anyone in a big playoff game

so you clean house and start over while the job is attractive.

if macc gives the money to a bunch of stiffs, the next guy will have little to work with

I am at peace because I know that I never get what I want, the Jets will keep them both, I'm used to it

[ljr]

6 hours ago, 68JET11 said:

Have said it many time, until the JETS hire a REAL President of Football Operations, none of this matters. Woody or Chris are not built to run this franchise. I know we'd all like them to sell the team, but if they have an ounce of intelligence then maybe at the end of this year, they will finally realize that their way has not worked and get someone in here that knows something about football. Once that happens and they understand they need to step aside, and only address monetary situations, then we'll maybe reap the benefits of other successful franchises. I have no crystal ball who that PFO should be, but someone with lots of success. Let him pick the new GM & then together the HC.

Would love it ... Can't  see the Johnson brothers ever doing it tho. :(

[rangerous]

20 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Macc took the job knowing full well his HC would be Bowles. If he didn't think Bowles was a good enough HC he wouldn't have bet his whole GM future on him. I said in another reply this afternoon, given that it was his mentor who recommended both of them in the first place, there's every likelihood Bowles is the HC Macc would have chosen anyway. As a career scout with the same meh organization for so long, it's not like he was the hot name everyone wanted to work under when he got his chance. 

this all comes full circle back to mac.  has he learned to be a decent gm?  the same thing applies to bowles. maybe they both survive or maybe neither.  could be the jets are in for another two seasons of low performance.

[UnitedWhofans]

Again, I keep going back to this. Firing a GM 1 year after drafting a franchise QB has never been done before. Firing a coach in the same spot? It has been done before and recently. Bowles is more likely to go.

Whether you think Macc should or shouldnt get fired is irrelevant. To fire a GM 1 year after drafting a top pick QB is Corporate Suicide.

[UnitedWhofans]

The ironic thing is that the two other Bowles replacements are not doing well either.

Dan Quinn to me is Todd Bowles with more talent. Blew the biggest halftime SB lead in history which really overshadows getting there in the first place and has done nothing else. They are mediocre this year

Doug Marrone came within a quarter of going to the Super Bowl, took his foot off the gas and blew it. And now his Jaguars are in a total state of disarray, partying in London fighting in the locker room

[JetsYanks13]

I think macc gets more time. GM’s usually get 2 head coaches unless they are completely ineffective (John Idzik) Bowles, unless the second half is fruitful, is a goner as he should be. I think the next 2 weeks will be telling. Lose to 2 divisional rivals who are awful by the way and he could be gone sooner than later.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Philc1]

No one is getting fired

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

The ironic thing is that the two other Bowles replacements are not doing well either.

Dan Quinn to me is Todd Bowles with more talent. Blew the biggest halftime SB lead in history which really overshadows getting there in the first place and has done nothing else. They are mediocre this year

Doug Marrone came within a quarter of going to the Super Bowl, took his foot off the gas and blew it. And now his Jaguars are in a total state of disarray, partying in London fighting in the locker room

Quinn I’ll give you that I think he’s totally overrated.  Dude inherited Matt Ryan and Julio Jones all he had to do was make the defense marginally better which it isn’t now even Hackenberg could put up 300 yards against his D

 

Marrone is a way better HC than Bowles.  Clearly he and Bortles are not getting along it happens

 

[bitonti]

22 hours ago, JiF said:

 

My overall point was more so in response to Bit claiming Todd is out performing Mac.  I'd maybe listen last year.  This year?  Hell no.  Not close. 

1

if Nathan Shepherd didn't have his name on the back of his jersey they'd have to file a missing person report

the roster is also about 20 mil under the cap (17 to be exact) and that's maybe a bigger problem than Mac. 

but however it got into this state Bowles is getting miracle wins out of a crap garbage roster. @JiF  firing Bowles implies a better coach could get more wins out of this roster. It's a barren roster and most Jets fans are too close (no context) to see it. 

and let me also say this thread is going to look ridiculous after the Jets beat Miami and Buffalo to be 5-5.  They were never going to beat Chicago etc. Jets fans not only have too high expectations but sometimes too low. 

[bitonti]

16 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Again, I keep going back to this. Firing a GM 1 year after drafting a franchise QB has never been done before. Firing a coach in the same spot? It has been done before and recently. Bowles is more likely to go.

Whether you think Macc should or shouldnt get fired is irrelevant. To fire a GM 1 year after drafting a top pick QB is Corporate Suicide.

from the big picture perspective, the Jets fire too many HC and GM at too fast a rate to be considered by quality candiates.

If you were the agent of a good young coach, let's say Kyle Shanahan. Why would you let your client be hired by a team who churns through HCs every 4 years whether they win or not? Rex Ryan became a clown he's also this franchise's all time playoff win leader.  Jets fans don't realize how much change this is compared to other teams. Franchise shouldn't be on a new head coach at the same rate of the Olympics every 4 years.

fans talk about getting a Bill Cowher type of amazing coach those guys get to stay places 10 years no questions asked. Gruden just got 100 million dollars for pete's sake. Everyone wants to fire these guys but 1 week into the hiring process it becomes apparent ownership had no plan other than to hire a management consulting firm to look for cheap first time candidates no one has heard of. 

all this is to say I am aware of Bowles' flaws he's just the best cheap hire out of the 4, with the most actual head coaching potential. there's no salary cap on coaches and for a guy making 28th highest HC salary, he's providing value. Maybe that's a low bar but every win he's making chicken salad out of you know what. Even Darnold who was such a great pick it might save Mac's job, the dude is leading the league in INTs. To have the Jets be 3-5 while the Jags are 3-5 that's music to the Johnson's ears. They can be mediocre for less money and pocket the difference between the cap roll over and the cap floor. 

[JustInFudge]

25 minutes ago, bitonti said:

if Nathan Shepherd didn't have his name on the back of his jersey they'd have to file a missing person report

the roster is also about 20 mil under the cap (17 to be exact) and that's maybe a bigger problem than Mac. 

but however it got into this state Bowles is getting miracle wins out of a crap garbage roster. @JiF  firing Bowles implies a better coach could get more wins out of this roster. It's a barren roster and most Jets fans are too close (no context) to see it. 

and let me also say this thread is going to look ridiculous after the Jets beat Miami and Buffalo to be 5-5.  They were never going to beat Chicago etc. Jets fans not only have too high expectations but sometimes too low. 

The idea that Todd Bowles is not culpable for the state of this roster is absolutely ridiculous. 

And there isnt a single Jets fan who doesnt recognize how bad this roster is, it's almost like you're not posting in a thread about who we should fire.  

This has nothing to do with 1 game.  This is a body for work.  Todd Bowles just released a statement that in 10 years, the running game is going to be the focal point of offense again.  This same man, thinks converting an onside kick is more probable than picking up a 1st on 4th and 9.  He also believes punting 2 scores down with 6 minutes left is a sound strategy to get back into a Football game.  Oh by the way, he's not responsible for penalties and miscommunications.  That's the coach you're defending and trying to sell to this board, cant be upgraded.  

I'll say it again, if Sam Darnold pans out despite how poor of a GM Mike Maccagnan has been, he will go down as the most important executive in team history.  

What will Todd Bowles be remembered as? 

 

[NoBowles]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

The idea that Todd Bowles is not culpable for the state of this roster is absolutely ridiculous. 

And there isnt a single Jets fan who doesnt recognize how bad this roster is, it's almost like you're not posting in a thread about who we should fire.  

This has nothing to do with 1 game.  This is a body for work.  Todd Bowles just released a statement that in 10 years, the running game is going to be the focal point of offense again.  This same man, thinks converting an onside kick is more probable than picking up a 1st on 4th and 9.  He also believes punting 2 scores down with 6 minutes left is a sound strategy to get back into a Football game.  Oh by the way, he's not responsible for penalties and miscommunications.  That's the coach you're defending and trying to sell to this board, cant be upgraded.  

I'll say it again, if Sam Darnold pans out despite how poor of a GM Mike Maccagnan has been, he will go down as the most important executive in team history.  

What will Todd Bowles be remembered as? 

 

 

[bitonti]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

The idea that Todd Bowles is not culpable for the state of this roster is absolutely ridiculous.  

 

 

the General Manager picks the players 

the Head Coach coaches the players. 

they are both 80-100 hour per week jobs. Bowles doesn't pick the groceries, he doesn't have any juice on draft day whatsoever 

 

[TMAC]

Only the brainwashed believe that wins and losses aren't the most important thing. As Vince Lombardi said: "Winning isn't a sometime thing; it's an all the time thing....Winning is a habit." It seems that the contemporary NFL fan has been brainwashed into believing in three, five, ten, and in the case of the Jets, fifty year plans.  Just be patient.  If we lose enough games, we will get good players in the draft.  If we get rid of the right players, we will have more money to spend. Don't expect playoffs this year or the next, or maybe even the next, but someday they will come.  A very smart observer recently wrote about the Jets and their "eternal rebuild."  Seems like a lot of Jet fans are all too willing to drink Macc's Kool Aid. I'm not.  

PS: if you don't like my post, FU

[Augustiniak]

15 minutes ago, JiF said:

The idea that Todd Bowles is not culpable for the state of this roster is absolutely ridiculous. 

And there isnt a single Jets fan who doesnt recognize how bad this roster is, it's almost like you're not posting in a thread about who we should fire.  

This has nothing to do with 1 game.  This is a body for work.  Todd Bowles just released a statement that in 10 years, the running game is going to be the focal point of offense again.  This same man, thinks converting an onside kick is more probable than picking up a 1st on 4th and 9.  He also believes punting 2 scores down with 6 minutes left is a sound strategy to get back into a Football game.  Oh by the way, he's not responsible for penalties and miscommunications.  That's the coach you're defending and trying to sell to this board, cant be upgraded.  

I'll say it again, if Sam Darnold pans out despite how poor of a GM Mike Maccagnan has been, he will go down as the most important executive in team history.  

What will Todd Bowles be remembered as? 

 

if they use the same gameplan in miami that failed in chicago and lose, what then?  how many more games will he piss away by running too much.  

[JustInFudge]

14 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Bowles doesn't pick the groceries, he doesn't have any juice on draft day whatsoever 

 

It's funny when you type things that you yourself dont believe to get a rise out of people.  I do it sometimes too.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

19 hours ago, rangerous said:

this all comes full circle back to mac.  has he learned to be a decent gm?  the same thing applies to bowles. maybe they both survive or maybe neither.  could be the jets are in for another two seasons of low performance.

I hear ya, but I think this year is it, or it's 1 more year or it'll be longer than 2 years. Just the nature of the league, they don't head into the season with lame duck HCs and GMs. In effect it's like an extra tax on the owners (which appropriately bothers nobody, lol).

To let things stand otherwise, and let them work through their lame duck season, the team will have a hard time attracting FAs that have other options.

Then again, Chris had just extended the 2 of them for 2 more years anyway, and a lot of good it did, lol. That should have told him right then & there what players/agents think of his GM/HC duo, not even counting Bell's tweet that $60m wouldn't be enough to sign with to the Jets.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

the General Manager picks the players 

the Head Coach coaches the players. 

they are both 80-100 hour per week jobs. Bowles doesn't pick the groceries, he doesn't have any juice on draft day whatsoever 

 

I don't think Bowles has no juice on draft day. He has quite a lot of juice, as does every HC, though ultimately the final decision on which player to sign or draft is Macc's to make.

The GM doesn't sit in a separate room from everyone else, shopping for groceries and then surprising everyone with what he bought. He gets input from his HC, his scouts, directly or indirectly from position coaches, and - heaven help us in Jetsland - from the owner, too. But the decision in the end, again, is the GM's. 

Where it gets dicey is if he goes against what his HC (and/or everyone else) wanted with a major FA acquisition, a big trade, or a 1st round pick -- if that pickup blows up in the team's collective face big-time, then internally the HC will get a mulligan and the GM the blame.  Listening to his HC's desires provides cover for a GM, much like safe 1st rounders do also, even if they don't ultimately move the needle much over what they'd be without that player.

To your point, though, does anyone honestly believe that with the 51st pick in 2016 Todd Bowles was banging the table for Christian Hackenberg? More likely he was banging his head against the wall because it wasn't a CB to take Cromartie's place, and because Hackenberg had trouble throwing screen passes on the mark to stationary targets, and because he just wanted Fitz.

[rangerous]

41 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I hear ya, but I think this year is it, or it's 1 more year or it'll be longer than 2 years. Just the nature of the league, they don't head into the season with lame duck HCs and GMs. In effect it's like an extra tax on the owners (which appropriately bothers nobody, lol).

To let things stand otherwise, and let them work through their lame duck season, the team will have a hard time attracting FAs that have other options.

Then again, Chris had just extended the 2 of them for 2 more years anyway, and a lot of good it did, lol. That should have told him right then & there what players/agents think of his GM/HC duo, not even counting Bell's tweet that $60m wouldn't be enough to sign with to the Jets.

yep.  i think their ice is pretty thin too.  if they lose to the doltfins and bills it's going to get really ugly. maybe we as fans are expecting too much but it seems other teams would have little trouble after 2+ seasons of rebuilding to have a winning record.  for the past 3 seasons it's just been the same story different day.

[Jetsplayer21]

On 10/31/2018 at 12:24 PM, Barkus said:

I would be stunned if this team goes 8-8 this year. That would be a dramatic turnaround from what we have seen so far. In fact, I think even 6-10 will be difficult. As it stands now right I would say Bowles will be fired and Mac will stay. Bowles really needs turn this team around and I don't see it happening frankly. It's the same thing over and over. Dumb penalties, missed assignments, bad in-game decisions, lack of creativity in playcalling. Mac will stay because he got us Darnold, has us in good salary cap shape, and has shown some marginal competence in drafting. (this is what I think johnson will do) I would not be against both of them being fired but I don't see the johnsons canning Mac.

8-8 is a crazy pipe dream. Don’t know why fans set themselves up believing in wild fantasies 

[Jetsplayer21]

48 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I hear ya, but I think this year is it, or it's 1 more year or it'll be longer than 2 years. Just the nature of the league, they don't head into the season with lame duck HCs and GMs. In effect it's like an extra tax on the owners (which appropriately bothers nobody, lol).

To let things stand otherwise, and let them work through their lame duck season, the team will have a hard time attracting FAs that have other options.

Then again, Chris had just extended the 2 of them for 2 more years anyway, and a lot of good it did, lol. That should have told him right then & there what players/agents think of his GM/HC duo, not even counting Bell's tweet that $60m wouldn't be enough to sign with to the Jets.

Owners are constantly eating dead $$$ with players contracts. Much more than what is left on Mac/Bowles contracts combined.. yet suddenly some fans act like owners will eat 10-20 mil from a bad contract from players, but not 4-6 from a HC/gm lol

[jetstream23]

I think what should be done is fairly simple.

Fire Bowles.  Macc gets to pick (or has a very loud voice) in hiring the next Coach.

That coach likely gets a couple of years and the evaluation of both that Coach and Macc becomes pretty easy.  Since the roster will have to have improved (it can't get much worse) we'll be able to evaluate a coach who will then be working with an experienced QB.

If the roster is still crap, if the Coach sucks, or if Darnold busts then Macc (and probably the coach) are gone come 2021 and we're back to 2015 with a complete clean slate for hiring a GM and HC.

I'm cautiously optimistic that a new Coach coupled with an experienced Sam Darnold and a few better players really help the Jets leap from a 5-6 win team to a 9-10 win team.  It's very achievable.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Owners are constantly eating dead $$$ with players contracts. Much more than what is left on Mac/Bowles contracts combined.. yet suddenly some fans act like owners will eat 10-20 mil from a bad contract from players, but not 4-6 from a HC/gm lol

Actually they don't really. The dead money you see them eat is rarely guaranteed future cash. It happened with Revis, and of course just happened with Pryor by cutting him midseason, but that's not what usually happens unless they think the player's presence is so toxic. But that stuff we're all like who cares because by then the money comes off whether he's here or not and if he's the kind you just can't have around your team you have to do what you have to do.  

Most of the time when you see dead $$$ it's dead cap-hit $ from money they already paid to the player in the form of a prior signing/option bonus check.

If they eat guaranteed cash it's usually either a lower amount, or a top 20 pick draft bust who just sucks too much to keep for the full 4 years of his rookie deal. 

[CanadaSteve]

On 10/31/2018 at 11:27 AM, Maxman said:

But if they go 8 and 8 and have 100 million in cap room wouldn't that make the case for both staying?

 

It is an illusion of sorts that we have a lot of money to spend.  Yes, $106 million is great.  But we have 29 players under contract.  We have to fill 24 positions just to field a team!  So not only do we need to do that, here are people and positions that need signing:

Quincy Enunwa

Robby Anderson

Jermaine Kearse

Morris Claiborne

Henry Anderson

Steve McLendon

Nobody would be sad to see Beachum or Long leave, and I personally would not be against replacing Winters.  Those moves would save $20 million, but create THREE starting holes in the OL with no depth behind it.

So, yes we have $106 million, and we could have about $20 more if we cut the OL.  Then, we would be looking at needing the following:

2-3 Wide Receivers

RB

LT

G x 2

C

CB x 2

OLB

DT

DE

We still then need about 12-15 more to fill out the roster.  All the above are starters needed (well, at least two WR).

IF it is indeed Mac running this show next year, he BETTER have an Ozzie Newsome-esque off-season. 

 

Then, we need about

[Maxman]

6 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

 

It is an illusion of sorts that we have a lot of money to spend.  Yes, $106 million is great.  But we have 29 players under contract.  We have to fill 24 positions just to field a team!  So not only do we need to do that, here are people and positions that need signing:

Quincy Enunwa

Robby Anderson

Jermaine Kearse

Morris Claiborne

Henry Anderson

Steve McLendon

I am not sure anyone of this list really needs to be signed. They do need guys at those positions though lol.

Robby is a restricted free agent I think so they can easily handle that.

Quincy? I love him, but if you can't work out a modest deal with him you let him test free agency. His is always hurt, definitely can't give him a big pay day.

Anderson, definitely bring him back. Mo Claiborne, should be able to get him a one year deal like he is on this year. McLendon...time is up.

I agree with the premise. And sticking with my first post I can seriously make the argument for either side.

[Creepy Lurker]

23 minutes ago, Maxman said:

I am not sure anyone of this list really needs to be signed. They do need guys at those positions though lol.

Robby is a restricted free agent I think so they can easily handle that.

Quincy? I love him, but if you can't work out a modest deal with him you let him test free agency. His is always hurt, definitely can't give him a big pay day.

Anderson, definitely bring him back. Mo Claiborne, should be able to get him a one year deal like he is on this year. McLendon...time is up.

I agree with the premise. And sticking with my first post I can seriously make the argument for either side.

It’s just too much of a hole/task for 1 offseason. Instead of building on what we have and moving forward, we will be scrambling. All in a year where drafting is more important than ever because of the mismanagement and failure at it for the last 4 years. I’m not nearly as optimistic about this offseason. It’s logistics and I don’t see the Jets being able to handle the workload of signing 20 players while looking to improve the roster with big name free agents on top of it.

Luckily the defense is in place except for D like and CB2 so if we can extend Claiborne and Anderson early, we can solely focus on offense and pray that we put together a half decent offense. It’s going to be a mess though, I can pretty much guarantee it unless many players foolishly resign with us before FA which would be a bad move on their parts. 

[Jet Blast]

Mac has been so-so, with some good moves and some bad. Mac and Bowles were a forced marriage. Each report to the owner. To me, that is a dysfunctional structure for a football organization. Fire Bowles. Keep Mac and let him choose the next head coach, who will report to him. If that doesn't work out down the line, then fire them both.

[Jetsplayer21]

On 11/2/2018 at 9:57 AM, JiF said:

The idea that Todd Bowles is not culpable for the state of this roster is absolutely ridiculous. 

And there isnt a single Jets fan who doesnt recognize how bad this roster is, it's almost like you're not posting in a thread about who we should fire.  

This has nothing to do with 1 game.  This is a body for work.  Todd Bowles just released a statement that in 10 years, the running game is going to be the focal point of offense again.  This same man, thinks converting an onside kick is more probable than picking up a 1st on 4th and 9.  He also believes punting 2 scores down with 6 minutes left is a sound strategy to get back into a Football game.  Oh by the way, he's not responsible for penalties and miscommunications.  That's the coach you're defending and trying to sell to this board, cant be upgraded.  

I'll say it again, if Sam Darnold pans out despite how poor of a GM Mike Maccagnan has been, he will go down as the most important executive in team history.  

What will Todd Bowles be remembered as? 

 

Mac has been Bowles homer. Of course it wasn’t Mac’s sole idea to put 70% of our draft/fa resources in the D, hell it was 80% until Darnold came.. John Morton deserved Ocord of the year putting out a pretty decent O with much less talent than this years O. But Bowles hated how much he passed, how creative he got to get the ball in the hands of our only weapon last yr.. it was writing on the wall when he canned Morton and declared he wanted to be “ more involved “ with the O this yr.. If teams haven’t picked up on the jets predictable O yet, they sure will in 2nd half of season..

 

  Id say Bowles is definitely gone,  but mac is a moron also for listening to bowles D demands while ignoring the O. Plus his little BPA drafting scheme has been a complete failure. Leaonard Williams was “ BPA “ in whole draft few years ago, mac thought he had such a steal, the other teams drafting in front of us knew a DL who doesn’t rush the passer is not worthy of a top 10 pick..

[Ex-Rex]

On 10/31/2018 at 11:24 AM, Maxman said:

You have the Patriots twice. Let's say the Jets lose both games, that gives them 7 losses on the year. But the opponents other than that are 19 and 26.

I say the Jets will lose once to Buffalo as well as twice to NE, plus GB, Tennessee and probably Houston. That is 5-11 once again and I doubt Bowles can lose double digit games three straight seasons and stay on as HC.

[Ex-Rex]

1 hour ago, Jet Blast said:

Mac has been so-so, with some good moves and some bad. Mac and Bowles were a forced marriage. Each report to the owner. To me, that is a dysfunctional structure for a football organization. Fire Bowles. Keep Mac and let him choose the next head coach, who will report to him. If that doesn't work out down the line, then fire them both.

True that. Imagine Bowles evaluating himself to Mr. Johnson. What is he going to say, "I'm a bad coach" or "The other guy gives me bad players." On the flip side Mac will say, "This guy is a bad coach. I give him the players he wants and he still can't win." I say Mac stays and Bowles goes. I only hope the Johnson's let Mac hire the HC because that is the only way it works...with a chain of command.

[Ex-Rex]

On 11/2/2018 at 1:41 PM, Jetsplayer21 said:

8-8 is a crazy pipe dream. Don’t know why fans set themselves up believing in wild fantasies 

I doubt the Jets finish 8-8. They are 3-5 now and would have to win 5 games the rest of the way. I can see a win over Miami and Buffalo, but the Bills will steal one - they always do - and GB is a loss. Jets have a punchers chance against Tennessee, but it is a road game against a very mobile QB, something the Jets have a habit of losing to. That leaves Houston and NE and I don't see a win there either. I see a third consecutive 5-11 and I can't see the Johnson's thinking that 15-33 over the last 3 seasons is enough to keep Bowles on board.