Tank crowd

[viffer]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Just feels to me like getting a win under his belt against that team is more valuable than one place in draft position.  Maybe next time they play, he'll know he can win and therefor more likely to win...

And what if we beat the Patsies in a meaningless game, wind up picking 4th or 5th, and then Bosa slips to 2nd or 3rd?  Still going to feel that beating the Patsies was worth missing out on Bosa?

Not saying it will turn out this way, but naysayers last year were saying Darnold would never fall to 3rd, but last time I checked he was on our roster.  I hate the Patsies as much, or more, than anyone on this board (I was forced by my job to move up to Boston, so I have to live in the middle of this horror show of Pats fans), but I want to get the best possible draft position more than I want to win a meaningless game.

That said, I sure as hell will be wearing my Sam Darnold jersey and rooting like mad for a Jets victory Sunday.  I just won't be too upset if they lose, and maybe wind up with the #2 or, God willing, #1 pick.

[FidelioJet]

And what if we beat the Patsies in a meaningless game, wind up picking 4th or 5th, and then Bosa slips to 2nd or 3rd?  Still going to feel that beating the Patsies was worth missing out on Bosa?


Yeah. That’s the big risk. Boss somehow dropping. - But still, I want this kid to develop a winning attitude.

Yes, I won’t be upset if they lose just I would prefer a win.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Warfish]

3 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

And this is why^^^

I appreciate that you agree with me, but I'm going to say there is nothing wrong with what FidelioJet thinks either, and that post above was most certainly not buttfumble worthy.

Just say'in, take it as you like.

[jgb]

I want to see jets players get jets wins. Screw tanking.

[roscoeword]

4 hours ago, Maxman said:

What happened this year is both amazing and seemed impossible to pull off. They lost a ton of games and it was really no fault of the rookie QB. Early on the rookie maybe couldn't win them any games, but now he can. Yet they still lose. The only things good about that is they do get a sweet draft pick and you hope the issues are correctable with a coaching change.

The no INT thing for Sam has been huge the past few weeks. He got his TD \ INT ratio positive and hopefully he ends the year that way.

Yes, its been perfect: Sam is playing great and we are losing, thereby getting a better draft pick. The best of both worlds

[GREENBEAN]

11 hours ago, ChuckkieB said:

This is a big problem for me.  The NFL is a win now league.  A smart GM can turn around an organization fairly quickly.  There is no time in the NFL for a GM to "grow into his position."  The Jets need to hire established football people with who can hit the ground running and not waste multiple years until they figure it out.  

I'm in.  Who we talking about? 

[Dcat]

6 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

I'm in.  Who we talking about? 

Maybe he wants Tannenbaum.  Lots of experience. 

[GREENBEAN]

Just now, Dcat said:

Maybe he wants Tannenbaum.  Lots of experience. 

Tons.  I read someone making the case for considering Tanny earlier today. Good stuff. 

[nico002]

A HC reporting to a GM is bizarre. Can you imagine reporting to someone that made less money than you?

[Jetsfan80]

A HC reporting to a GM is bizarre. Can you imagine reporting to someone that made less money than you?

Players do it all the time.

[GREENBEAN]

9 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Of course it matters.  Confidence is everything at that position.  It's important going into the off-season feeling good, feeling confident the next time he plays them, knowing he can beat them.  

there's no magic but it helps.  

I would say it helps more than picking up one spot in the draft that may or may not actually be a good player -

Does that one extra place in the draft magically ensure you draft a hall-of-famer?   Is the team going to mysteriously be guaranteed to be better because they drafted at 3 rather than 4?

 

Nasty and childish comments aren't helpful....just an fyi, don't bother responding you are on ignore for me...

Id say you are half right. Darnold can get some confidence by playing well and winning against the pats. Knocking them off of the first round bye tip would ve delightful too. 

That being said, I don't think you really believe that one draft spot can't make a difference. Think back o the Gholston year as one example. I believe Favre was taken right before Nagle too. so it can be big. Maybe not this year, but it certainly helps.  Arguable more than winning the pats game .

[bigalbarracuda]

On 12/26/2018 at 9:42 AM, Joe W. Namath said:

Jets lose 31-28 with Darnold playing well is the perfect ending to this season.  Anyone who cant see that is a dolt.

Sorry but I've been 100% pro-tank and I would love nothing more than Sam lighting Beli's teets on fire and Jamal picking Tommy-boy off for a pick-6 or two... show them what the future of the AFCE looks like.

Winning the divisional games with Sam playing well are well worth sliding a slot or two. Same reason why I thought Bowles should have been fired after the 41-10 loss to the Bills.

[UnknownJetFan]

On 12/26/2018 at 9:08 AM, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Because maybe a third of the teams in the league have a good to great qb and the bottom feeder teams are generally very poorly managed and don’t know how to operate a draft. 

There are three main ways to get talent. Draft, FA/waivers, and trades. Option 3 doesn’t get done much except to mainly acquire draft assets. Free agency is dried up because no team has cap issues, everyone has money to extend players, and when all else fails, franchise tag. 

So you’re left with mainly the draft. So guess what, it’s incredibly important for a team in our position to get the most out of the draft. Hence every trade down, even in lower rounds, matters. Every pick that brings in higher end talent, matters. 

Compound that with our idiot gm investing these premium assets into safeties, undersized linebackers, and interior lineman and you have this cluster of a roster with solid players at those positions that leaves us with bottom third defenses and offenses because replacement level players would have given about the same level of production and impact. 

Compound that with our gm missing horribly on every pick after the first and you have basically half a roster to fill because no one is worth extending and most of your draft picks are out of the league.

then people say, “hey, top teams miss on draft picks too!!! So give our gm a break.” But in reality you are missing the core of the problem. Yes, the draft has uncertainty because there is way too much information to process, way too much asymmetric information that will never be discovered until after you draft a player, injury/drug/character/athletic risks, and non standardized competition. But the good teams have a system, use advanced analytics, and have a firm roster building plan to get it right more than wrong. 

The Steelers went from a great defensive team to a juggernaut offense. That’s not a coincidence, they saw what the league was becoming and take athletic wide receivers, offensive linemen, and backs almost every draft. How many of those have we taken in the last ten years versus them. The answer is going to tell you why we suck at offense every year and why they are high in the league with wins and offensive rankings. 

 

 

Well, lets see now with Darnold since we have never had a QB like Big Ben on this team since Broadway Joe. Darnold is making Anderson, Herdon, and Eli M. look much better than a crap QB would, and he is doing it with an Oline that cannot run block at all and just OK at pass blocking. If Mac drafts some better Olineman and gets a couple more skill position players at RB and WR, then we can probably judge both the team overall and the FO and even Ownership to some degree. Lets face it without a FQB even the last 20-40 years and especially now you cannot go anyware consistently. Great D's don't provide a large window for success like Denver with Vol Miller, the Ravens, etc. And those teams were fortunate to get a SB win with the teams they had. For us to get a chance at a SB we need to continue to grow this O with Sam and blocking/weapons and perhaps become consistent where we can win much more often than lose. Lets see. We have waited a long time, but never got a QB of this caliber in most of our lifetimes.

[slats]

I want the Jets to beat the Pats on Sunday. Period. Sure, the win means nothing for the Jets' record, but it's a must-win game for the Pats who are trying to clinch a bye. That's the only fun left in a losing season: playing spoiler. And who better to spoil than Brady and Belichick? I'd say, no one. 

If the Jets were playing another non-playoff team this weekend, I'd be more in that pro-Darnold, anti-victory frame of mind. But screw that. Jets are going into NE as serious underdogs. If this crappy team with their crappy coach and their rookie QB can beat the Cheats in their house and knock them from the 2nd to the 3rd seed, that'll give me something to smile about for a little while. 

If they lose, I'll gladly accept the potentially higher draft pick (and they could easily wind up with the 4th pick with a loss, no worse than the 5th with a win), but I want the win. 

[GREENBEAN]

20 hours ago, Warfish said:

I completely agree, the organizational structure of the NY Jets is pants-on-head dumb.  I argued early on that Macc should not be saddled with a guy who wasn't his choice.  But since then, Macc has shown he cannot do the core job of a GM, identifying and selecting talent (IMO) in both FA and the Draft.

I am not a fan of giving Macc an out for years 1 and 2 because he (as GM) tried to win now vs. planning forthe future.  End of the day, that was his call to do.  It's failure is also on him (as was the mismanagement that helped cause it i.e. Fitz)

It's a challenge, no doubt.  We must do it right, and select the GM first, then let the GM select the Coach.

With that said, I believe what WILL happen is Macc WILL be retained, and he will get to help select the next Coach, but the organization will retain the split-authority as we have it now.  Because we are duuuuuumb.  The worst outcome possible.

?

If I had all the answers, I'd be the GM Myself. 

 

Sadly, I think we'll both be back here in a few years, lamenting another couple of wasted years 9and wasted Darnold years at that) under Macc, while pondering who the next GM and Head Coach will be.....

It's a date.  lol

Trust me, I have concerns about Macc just like anyone else. It just might not be as severe as others see it. The basis for my entire thoughts process is that I dislike making major decisions when the process is incomplete barring seeing an irreparable downward trend.  Sometimes you have to cut your losses and start over obviously.  I'm just not there with Macc. 

I agree with you that, for better or worse we will more than likely retain Macc and have him be apart of the coaching hire. That doesn't mean I win or anything like that and I certainly won't be performing any sort of victory dance when that happens. It will be interesting to see what the hierarchy looks like right from the get go. That will give us a pretty good indication as to what degree we have a chance at success. If it's the same deal we have now, we are in trouble. If not and we implement a more appropriate reporting structure we have a shot. 

Extra point: Did you catch the Kacy Rodgers interview posted on here? If not, take a look. It really paints a picture of a coaching staff that is in over their heads. He is the right hand of our HC. The most trusted advisor in the building.  Truth is I actually like Rodgers personality and he seems likable to me, but he also seems like he is beat up and out of ideas. It looks to me that our staff has very little ability to utilize the players we have, yet also need specific types to run the schemes they want to run.  That to me is the most critical issue to address. Hindsight may just reveal that we never had a chance to succeed with this group of coaches. That creates an unfair assessment of the GM position from my standpoint. What a powerful glimpse into the inept mindset of our game day braintrust. 

[FidelioJet]

11 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

Id say you are half right. Darnold can get some confidence by playing well and winning against the pats. Knocking them off of the first round bye tip would ve delightful too. 

That being said, I don't think you really believe that one draft spot can't make a difference. Think back o the Gholston year as one example. I believe Favre was taken right before Nagle too. so it can be big. Maybe not this year, but it certainly helps.  Arguable more than winning the pats game .

You can point to Favre for sure - but there are also countless times that the better players goes after the one we took.  

I don't have time to do the research but I would guess the person taken 3, 4 or 5 end up having similar success rates.  3 could easily be a bust while 4 is a hall of famer.  Sure you want to be in the best position possible.   But I want to see this kid win games.  Winning breeds winning.

btw..I was all for the tank last year when we needed a QB, but once you have the QB draft position matters less.

[Gastineau Lives]

15 hours ago, Warfish said:

I appreciate that you agree with me, but I'm going to say there is nothing wrong with what FidelioJet thinks either, and that post above was most certainly not buttfumble worthy.

Just say'in, take it as you like.

Oh there's plenty wrong with his argument. 

[Jetsfan80]

Darnold will have plenty of years ahead to slap the Patriots around.  Maybe even 15 years. 

It's really not a big deal if we lose this one.  The rest of the AFC just needs to do its job and knock them off in the playoffs. 

I'm not sure how much damage a win will do to us come April, but I'd rather pick higher, and see what happens. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Darnold will have plenty of years ahead to slap the Patriots around.  Maybe even 15 years. 

It's really not a big deal if we lose this one.  The rest of the AFC just needs to do its job and knock them off in the playoffs. 

I'm not sure how much damage a win will do to us come April, but I'd rather pick higher, and see what happens. 

Especially since the# overall pick is still in play if we lose and catch some breaks.. But bowles has pretty much done his job to guarantee us a top 5/6 pick no matter what happens on Sunday.

[Beerfish]

The meaningless end of season wins in lost seasons sure helped make Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith the pro bowlers they are today.

As Herm said, you play to win the game.

The thing is that these feel good wins last for about a week or so then at draft time you wish you were just a bit higher.

I would be utterly shocked if we beat the pats and move down but it would not bother me all that much.  The reason to pick higher this year is for trade down opportunities but the draft is a funny thing and you never know when so and so falls to you.

[slats]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Darnold will have plenty of years ahead to slap the Patriots around.  Maybe even 15 years. 

It's really not a big deal if we lose this one.  The rest of the AFC just needs to do its job and knock them off in the playoffs. 

I'm not sure how much damage a win will do to us come April, but I'd rather pick higher, and see what happens. 

Cheats have a losing record on the road this year, with two of their three wins coming against the Jets and the Bills. I'd like for the Jets to help the rest of the AFC out and keep them on the road in the playoffs. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

Cheats have a losing record on the road this year, with two of their three wins coming against the Jets and the Bills. I'd like for the Jets to help the rest of the AFC out and keep them on the road in the playoffs. 

I hear ya.  I wouldn't mind a win.  I think we get something nice out of this with either result. 

Regardless, I want Darnold to play well. 

[Embrace the Suck]

22 hours ago, Warfish said:

I appreciate your position even if I do not agree with it.

If a player's "confidence" is so weak that a week 16 loss in their rookie campaign has ANY effect on him whatsoever in future seasons.......well, that player has problems well beyond what a single late season win can solve.

If a player doesn't think he can beat a team because his team lost to them in the final game of a 4-11 rookie season......well, that player has problems well beyond what a single late season win can solve.

What I'm telling you is this, fragile minded QB's have no place in the NFL.  And they don't succeed.  So we ALL better hope Darnold is not in fact a fragile ego missing confidence type player, because if he is, he has problems well beyond what a single late season win can solve.

I, for one, do not believe he is.  Win or lose, I think he'll be fine.

Hopefully you find my disagreement respectful, and don;t put me on ignore too......

Seriously.... Amen. When did this society become such a pussified version of the Brady Bunch...

[GREENBEAN]

6 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

You can point to Favre for sure - but there are also countless times that the better players goes after the one we took.  

I don't have time to do the research but I would guess the person taken 3, 4 or 5 end up having similar success rates.  3 could easily be a bust while 4 is a hall of famer.  Sure you want to be in the best position possible.   But I want to see this kid win games.  Winning breeds winning.

btw..I was all for the tank last year when we needed a QB, but once you have the QB draft position matters less.

Right. I hear ya.  The players selected becoming a success are from all over the spectrum. I'm with ya there. No telling what's gonna happen. My entire mindset is the trade down. I don't know how possible it is, but I believe the better the spot the more likely we will have someone to trade with and be able to get another 1 next year or at minimum a 2 and some change this year. That's what I'm all about. I'm certainly not getting all chubbed up for a DT for God's sake!   

Just want to see us gain some draft capital to try and build around this dynamic kid we finally have at the QB position.