Prove me wrong

[genot]

2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

You can't draft busts if you don't draft players at all.  Thus our GMs oline strategy

Offensive line talent has been s... the last 3 or four years. Even this year the talent level was weak.

[Jetsplayer21]

5 minutes ago, genot said:

Please show me the post where i said that. I'm waiting

Sorry if it wasn’t you. Someone said, “ you don’t think mac holds the OL in high regard !“ unless they edited, should be somewhere. 

[Jetsplayer21]

5 minutes ago, genot said:

Offensive line talent has been s... the last 3 or four years. Even this year the talent level was weak.

There is an excuse EVERY year. Past five years. First thing Mac did when he walked in the door to not so great OL was weaken it. He chased dbrick into retirement because he didn’t want to pay him.. overpay for D players no problem. I think mac has given a D player at his position or overall top dollar 3-4 times  ? OL never. 

[genot]

5 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Sorry if it wasn’t you. Someone said, “ you don’t think mac holds the OL in high regard !“ unless they edited, should be somewhere. 

Thats cool.

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

I mean, if you were just going to put your fingers in your ear and yell “i’m rubber and you’re glue” not sure what the point of what you’re doing here is.  

He's doing his best Ben Shapiro impression.  On purpose.  We're all just gonna ignore that?

[genot]

2 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

There is an excuse EVERY year. Past five years. First thing Mac did when he walked in the door to not so great OL was weaken it. He chased dbrick into retirement because he didn’t want to pay him.. overpay for D players no problem. I think mac has given a D player at his position or overall top dollar 3-4 times  ? OL never. 

Be patient. It's obvious based on who we drafted last year, and what we've done in the off season, that filling in the blanks on offense is a priority.

[14 in Green]

20 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Says the guy/gal with 2497 posts. 

and you have what, about 35,000?

Quality over quantity buddy/buddyette! ?

[ZachEY]

34 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Would you say the Steelers have had a good OL the last few seasons? Probably yes.

What about Arizona? Pretty bad, right?

 Where are they both on this list? Why would you use it to make the argument you're trying to make?

Because context matters.  This thread, and it's tenuous "fact" ignores context entirely.

If a team with a good offensive line isn't drafting lineman, we can assume it's because they don't need to, at present.  As they have their guys and they are in their primes (or something to that effect).  If a team with a bad offensive line isn't drafting linemen, something else is going on, and they're likely to remain bad.

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, 14 in Green said:

and you have what, about 35,000?

Quality over quantity buddy/buddyette! ?

You remind of PatsFanTX by the far worst poster in my history here. 

Quality nothing it seems all you want to do is troll others and argue. 

[Jetsplayer21]

5 minutes ago, genot said:

Be patient. It's obvious based on who we drafted last year, and what we've done in the off season, that filling in the blanks on offense is a priority.

I know. I’m very confident a major overhaul is coming to OL next yr through FA and draft. Now that we thankfully have a O HC, he is going to push for that. Johnsons are not going to allow a gm not to invest high draft picks on OL, now that we have Sam darnold. I don’t think we have to guess who the Johnsons care more about protecting, Sam darnold’s future or macs lol

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

42 minutes ago, genot said:

We didn't sign Paradis for reasons unknown to you or me. We had the money. Gase flipped on him. Fake news.

What the "poster" fails to recognize or refuses to note is that Paradis' former team only offered him a one year contract.  There is a reason for that.  He was recovering from injury and they deemed him expendable.  What he also fails to recognize is that the market for this premium center was small for a reason. Most likely age, price and eroding skill.   He in fact garnered less interest than Morse, even though he was considered to be the better player.  

Additionally, Paradis is a self professed "country boy", who had little interest in living in the Metropolitan area. That is one of the reasons he preferred Carolina.  The "poster" once again was either too lazy to do the research necessary to know this fact, or too stuck in his blind rage at the Jets management to acknowledge it.

At the end of the day, the Jets pursued Paradis, interviewed him, and for whatever reason both parties decided it wasn't a fit.  Instead of giving the Jets credit for this, the "poster" prefers to invent a conspiracy theory where Gase is furious at Maccagnan for failing to sign him.  That's the way this "poster" operates.

Note:  Paradis is a former sixth round draft pick.  If the Jet's had drafted him the "poster" would have railed at the management for putting so little value on drafting such a valuable asset.  Ironic, isn't it.

[14 in Green]

8 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

You remind of PatsFanTX by the far worst poster in my history here. 

Quality nothing it seems all you want to do is troll others and argue. 

LMAO. Nobody argues, and puts more people on "ignore" then you do.

BTW I was never arguing with you Joe. Go back and look again. What was there to argue about? Just joking with you. It all went over your head though.

So you got butt hurt. Again.

[genot]

I know some of you hate me, but i still love you all very much.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

46 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Vernon Gholston	DE	Ohio State	5	2
30	Dustin Keller	TE	Purdue	5	5	[32]
2009	5	Mark Sanchez	QB	USC	7*	5	[33]
2010	29	Kyle Wilson	CB	Boise State	6*	5	[34]
2011	30	Muhammad Wilkerson	DL	Temple University	5*	5	[35]
2012	16	Quinton Coples	DE	North Carolina	4*	4
2013	9	Dee Milliner	CB	Alabama	3*	3
	13	Sheldon Richardson	DT	Missouri	5*	4
2014	18	Calvin Pryor	S	Louisville	2*	2
2015	6	Leonard Williams	DT	USC	4*	4*
2016	20	Darron Lee	LB	Ohio State	3*	3*
2017	6	Jamal Adams	S	LSU	2*	2*	[36]
2018	3	Sam Darnold	QB	USC	1*	1*
2019	3	Quinnen Williams

 

Look at the blown #1s who should be helping this team win games in 2019. 

Mac has been pretty dreadful at drafting OL, but you can't blame him for drafts prior to 2015. 

[joewilly12]

3 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

LMAO. Nobody argues, and puts more people on "ignore" then you do.

I was never arguing with you Joe. Go back and look again. Just joking with you. It all went over your head though.

So you got butt hurt. Again.

No butt hurt here never I have 4 users on ignore because they just aren't worth my time or aggravation. 

Again you wrongfully accuse and make wrong assumptions. 

Stick to talking football check your feelings at the door or leave them on Facebook. 

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Mac has been pretty dreadful at drafting OL, but you can't blame him for drafts prior to 2015. 

NY Jets organization in general drafting. 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

So say w wind up with the 20th pick in the NFL draft we will get one of the top WR's or OL? 

Joe, in this year's draft three offensive lineman were taken in the first twenty picks. No receivers were chosen until the 25th pick.  The failure rate of high first round wide receiving busts is astronomical, look it up.  So, the answer to your question is yes.  If the Jets were to chose at the twentieth slot in next year's draft, a deep draft with offensive lineman and wide receivers,  we would indeed get a top prospect.

[joewilly12]

Just now, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Joe, in this year's draft three offensive lineman were taken in the first twenty picks. No receivers were chosen until the 25th pick.  The failure rate of high first round wide receiving busts is astronomical, look it up.  So, the answer to your question is yes.  If the Jets were to chose at the twentieth slot in next year's draft, a deep draft with offensive lineman and wide receivers,  we would indeed get a top prospect.

Ok we shall see. 

[ZachEY]

 

Jets have lower percentage of active players per round in 2nd-5th rounds vs. league average.  #FACT

Note, these numbers do not include Macc's timeframe only.

So, here are the numbers for Macc's timeframe.  Last in players still in the league, 22nd in players still on their own team.  #FACTS

If you look at percentages, instead of total number, it looks worse.  #FACTS

So, not busting in the first round is good, but consistently picking top 10 certainly has helped that #FACTS.

Oh, and his FA has been a failure too.

 

So, does this prove you wrong or

[T0mShane]

34 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

He's doing his best Ben Shapiro impression.  On purpose.  We're all just gonna ignore that?

I WAS GONNA SAY but I didn’t want to start sh*t on a Sunday 

[static14]

Just now, T0mShane said:

I WAS GONNA SAY but I didn’t want to start sh*t on a Sunday 

The Lord’s day.

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

I WAS GONNA SAY but I didn’t want to start sh*t on a Sunday 

Nothing to start.  Can point out what's plainly obvious without offering a take.  I have a take, and it's pretty clever, but another time my friend.  I'll let me reposting of Jason's #Facts ice this.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

2009 5 Mark Sanchez QB USC 7* 5 ^[33] 2010 29 Kyle Wilson CB Boise State 6* 5 ^[34] 2011 30 Muhammad Wilkerson DL Temple University 5* 5 ^[35] 2012 16 Quinton Coples DE North Carolina 4* 4   2013 9 Dee Milliner CB Alabama 3* 3   13 Sheldon Richardson DT Missouri 5* 4   2014 18 Calvin Pryor S Louisville 2* 2   2015 6 Leonard Williams DT USC 4* 4*   2016 20 Darron Lee LB Ohio State 3* 3*   2017 6 Jamal Adams S LSU 2* 2* ^[36] 2018 3 Sam Darnold QB USC 1* 1*   2019 3 Quinnen Williams

 

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

 

Look at the blown #1s who should be helping this team win games in 2019. 

Bad argument Joe, if you're trying to indict the current regime.  If #1 blown picks are the barometer, then Mike Maccagnan has done well.  By the list you provided, all five of his #1 picks are still on the team.  Additionally all, with the possible exception of Darron Lee, are major contributors and team staples.

Leonard Williams is considered an important part of the defense,  although I would argue differently, many here state with conviction that "any team in the league would be happy to have him".  Jamal Adams is an All Pro, and a major part of the defense.  Sam Darnold is our present and future franchise quarterback.  Quinnen Williams is going to be a star.

Additionally, Sheldon Richardson was flipped for a 2018 second rounder, which was included in the Sam Darnold trade-up.  But for that draft pick, we very well may have been forced to surrender this year's #1, which would have been disastrous.

There are quite a few busts on that list Joe, but you can't lay them at the feet of Mike Maccagnan and Co., because it "just ain't so Joe".

[Long Island Leprechaun]

6 hours ago, ECURB said:

Not using your feelings that are running wild on this message board...but rather using FACTS... Prove me wrong.

I only had time to pick the "best" team to compare us against but feel free to look up some others.

 

2015-2018 Drafts

JETS - 28 picks 

Currently still have 18 on the team (64%)

9 are starters (32%)

 

Patriots - 33 picks

Currently still have 14 on the team (42%)

4 are starters (12%)

 

So you say "Mac sucks at drafting" but what are you basing it on? Almost 3/4 of his picks are still kicking and it looks like this year will be no different.

I used your methodology for the Packers. Question remains whether these numbers are proportional to win/loss record. Below based on 2018 roster from drafts of 2015-2018. Packers were 23-24 over 2016 - 2018.

7 starters  7/36 = 19%

19/36 = 53% still on the team

Here's the Dolphins (23-25 over the period of 2016-2018):

7/30 =  23%

21/30 = 70%

[Long Island Leprechaun]

35 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

 

Jets have lower percentage of active players per round in 2nd-5th rounds vs. league average.  #FACT

Note, these numbers do not include Macc's timeframe only.

So, here are the numbers for Macc's timeframe.  Last in players still in the league, 22nd in players still on their own team.  #FACTS

If you look at percentages, instead of total number, it looks worse.  #FACTS

So, not busting in the first round is good, but consistently picking top 10 certainly has helped that #FACTS.

Oh, and his FA has been a failure too.

 

So, does this prove you wrong or

These are tricky stats. Players in the league is not terribly relevant. Players still on team is. signings have nothing to do with the question at hand. And based on analysis of Packers, Jason doesn't seem to be correct about that stat either. Of course I didn't evaluate every team, but the stats above don't make the case against what CURB is saying.

[joewilly12]

23 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Bad argument Joe, if you're trying to indict the current regime.

NY Jets organization in general. 

Maccagnan has hit on #1s who fell to him and are no brainers so far. 

[GreenReaper]

6 hours ago, ECURB said:

That's why I left the total too... Pats sure seem to whiff on a lot of guys... Maybe it is just a HOF QB covering up their bad drafting a luxury the JETS have not had.

BINGO!

And now Sam Darnold is in the building.

 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

1 hour ago, ECURB said:

Ok thanks for sharing your feelings. When you want to have a non millennial style discussion with real facts come on back! ✌️

Thanks for the thread.  It was nice to watch someone turn the tables on the "Chicken Little Brigade" for a change.  They constantly bash the glass half  full posters with innuendo and sniping, and it was nice to see someone trolling them for a change.  Lost their sh#t.  Priceless.  Turned the tables.  Masterful job ECURB, you are my hero......

[ZachEY]

13 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

These are tricky stats. Players in the league is not terribly relevant. Players still on team is. signings have nothing to do with the question at hand. And based on analysis of Packers, Jason doesn't seem to be correct about that stat either. Of course I didn't evaluate every team, but the stats above don't make the case against what CURB is saying.

The reason why players in the league matters is because it controls for better teams having fewer spots available.  So, while yes, you only draft for the sake of your team, the fact that Macc is struggling significantly to draft nfl players is damning.  You can debate the merits of these data points, but regardless of the holes you try to poke, you’d have to admit that this is bad, not good, and not on par with the league.  If you can’t, just say you like Macc for your own, non-fact based reasons.  That’s fine.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

9 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Thanks for the thread.  It was nice to watch someone turn the tables on the "Chicken Little Brigade" for a change.  They constantly bash the glass half  full posters with innuendo and sniping, and it was nice to see someone trolling them for a change.  Lost their sh#t.  Priceless.  Turned the tables.  Masterful job ECURB, you are my hero......

Yeah, he sure showed those whippersnappers what's what. You guys should metamucil and chill.

[Matt39]

11 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

The reason why players in the league matters is because it controls for better teams having fewer spots available.  So, while yes, you only draft for the sake of your team, the fact that Macc is struggling significantly to draft nfl players is damning.  You can debate the merits of these data points, but regardless of the holes you try to poke, you’d have to admit that this is bad, not good, and not on par with the league.  If you can’t, just say you like Macc for your own, non-fact based reasons.  That’s fine.

We've moved into wins and losses not being the most important thing here now.

[FidelioJet]

5 hours ago, Jets723 said:

I still dont get what the problem was drafting Williams?  Him or Allen would of been great picks. There were no offensive players worth passing them up for. Pretty much every analyst has said the same thing

This is where I guess I differ from you and "every analyst" - to me the draft is a crap shoot...

and I imagine, don't have the time to do the research, but I imagine if you look at the drafts over the past 20 years or so - the guy taken at 3 has about the same amount of success as the guy taken at 8 or 11.

Just because "every analyst" says that's the guy you should take doesn't mean that's what you should do. 

The Jets drafted their future last year at #3 overall - IMHO - their job this year was to do anything and everything possible to help him turn into a legitimate - 15 year, NFL franchise QB.  

And if that means taking a guy at 3 that you probably could have gotten at 8 then you do it.  If that means making a trade for less than what "every analyst" says it is worth - you do it.

This year should have been about one thing and one thing only - helping Sam Darnold.  Instead we draft defense with our first two picks and use 4 of the total 6 picks on defense.

I'm sorry but I'm just not buying the - We had no choice but to draft defense - BS...

[NYJ1]

2 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

I say it all the time if not for the NY Jets many on our roster wouldn't be in the NFL the same can be said for Mike Maccagnan if not the NY Jets GM he wouldn't be in the NFL as another teams GM. 

I don't know if any of this is fact, but it certainly seems that way. The level of talent on this team over the last 3 years is almost laughable. Mac is responsible for ALL of it.

[NoBowles]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

We've moved into wins and losses not being the most important thing here now.

OR, we are saying there are many co-dependent variables that go into wins and losses. I think Maccagnan is a buffoon, should have been gone 2 years ago, but I also think the coaching by Bowles and Co. was so atrocious that it was actually hard to go by wins and losses as a barometer. 

[14 in Green]

21 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Thanks for the thread.  It was nice to watch someone turn the tables on the "Chicken Little Brigade" for a change.  They constantly bash the glass half  full posters with innuendo and sniping, and it was nice to see someone trolling them for a change.  Lost their sh#t.  Priceless.  Turned the tables.  Masterful job ECURB, you are my hero......

He was great!

@ECURB I echo everything jnwc said. I knew this could be good, just didn't think it would get the play it did.

It turned out better then I imagined. You were the conductor. This thread was your "opus"!