Good point by Beningo about jets history of drafting WRs

[pdxgreen]

8 hours ago, Lith said:

On the other hand, here is a list of the Top 10 WRs drafted by the Jets since the 1970 merger, based upon receiving yards:

Rk	Year	Rnd	Pick	Player	Pos	DrAge	From	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	G	GS	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	College/Univ
1	1996	1	1	Keyshawn Johnson	WR	24	1996	2006	0	3	10	78	167	162	13	91	2	814	10571	64	USC	College Stats
2	2001	1	16	Santana Moss	WR	22	2001	2014	0	1	8	73	197	135	51	287	0	732	10283	66	Miami (FL)	College Stats
3	1989	5	126	Tony Martin	WR	24	1990	2001	0	1	6	66	177	100	6	-3	0	593	9065	56
4	1990	6	140	Terance Mathis	WR	23	1990	2002	0	1	8	65	206	130	14	97	2	689	8809	63	New Mexico	College Stats
5	2000	3	78	Laveranues Coles	WR	22	2000	2009	0	1	9	67	153	138	37	231	0	674	8609	49	Florida St.	College Stats
6	1977	2	33	Wesley Walker	WR	22	1977	1989	1	2	11	73	154	129	6	35	0	438	8306	71	California	College Stats
7	2004	4	108	Jerricho Cotchery	WR	22	2004	2015	0	0	5	52	175	89	22	93	1	524	6623	34	North Carolina St.	College Stats
8	1985	1	10	Al Toon	WR	22	1985	1992	1	3	8	54	107	95	4	7	0	517	6605	31	Wisconsin	College Stats
9	1975	8	193	James Scott	WR	23	1976	1983	0	0	5	35	71	58	2	-4	0	177	3202	20	Trinity Valley CC (TX)
10	2011	5	153	Jeremy Kerley	WR	22	2011	2018	0	0	2	23	99	40	18	133	0	270	3116	13	TCU	College Stats

This is the best we have to show for 50 years of drafts.  2 guys, Tony Martin and James Scott, who never even played for the Jets.  Two more guys (Santana Moss and Terance Mathis) who did most of their damage with other teams.  That leaves 6 WRs out of 50 years of drafts with more than 3,000 receiving yards for the Jets.

I can't imagine that another team in the league could have an uglier list than this.

 

Well.  Then just compare it to the worst positional drafting in pro sports history.  Say... the Portland Trail Blazers history of drafting centers.  You see.  Things aren't all THAT bad!

[Losmeister]

7 hours ago, Lith said:

On the other hand, here is a list of the Top 10 WRs drafted by the Jets since the 1970 merger, based upon receiving yards:

Rk	Year	Rnd	Pick	Player	Pos	DrAge	From	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	G	GS	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	College/Univ
1	1996	1	1	Keyshawn Johnson	WR	24	1996	2006	0	3	10	78	167	162	13	91	2	814	10571	64	USC	College Stats
2	2001	1	16	Santana Moss	WR	22	2001	2014	0	1	8	73	197	135	51	287	0	732	10283	66	Miami (FL)	College Stats
3	1989	5	126	Tony Martin	WR	24	1990	2001	0	1	6	66	177	100	6	-3	0	593	9065	56
4	1990	6	140	Terance Mathis	WR	23	1990	2002	0	1	8	65	206	130	14	97	2	689	8809	63	New Mexico	College Stats
5	2000	3	78	Laveranues Coles	WR	22	2000	2009	0	1	9	67	153	138	37	231	0	674	8609	49	Florida St.	College Stats
6	1977	2	33	Wesley Walker	WR	22	1977	1989	1	2	11	73	154	129	6	35	0	438	8306	71	California	College Stats
7	2004	4	108	Jerricho Cotchery	WR	22	2004	2015	0	0	5	52	175	89	22	93	1	524	6623	34	North Carolina St.	College Stats
8	1985	1	10	Al Toon	WR	22	1985	1992	1	3	8	54	107	95	4	7	0	517	6605	31	Wisconsin	College Stats
9	1975	8	193	James Scott	WR	23	1976	1983	0	0	5	35	71	58	2	-4	0	177	3202	20	Trinity Valley CC (TX)
10	2011	5	153	Jeremy Kerley	WR	22	2011	2018	0	0	2	23	99	40	18	133	0	270	3116	13	TCU	College Stats

This is the best we have to show for 50 years of drafts.  2 guys, Tony Martin and James Scott, who never even played for the Jets.  Two more guys (Santana Moss and Terance Mathis) who did most of their damage with other teams.  That leaves 6 WRs out of 50 years of drafts with more than 3,000 receiving yards for the Jets.

I can't imagine that another team in the league could have an uglier list than this.

 

ur lacking imagination...     Chicago comes to mind immediately

[phill1c]

Imagine Al Toon and Wesley Walker in TODAY'S NFL...that's fun.

I mean, not that they were bad in their own times...

[Philc1]

13 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

I posted something in the Draft forum a while ago showing that the Jets have been absolutely horrible at drafting WRs.  Doing okay while taking one in Round 1....and then failing with almost every other pick after Round 1 is not a good track record.

The Jets have been horrible and have picked the wrong WR or ignored good ones with almost every opportunity they've had in recent years.

 

Jerry Jeudy doesn’t equal Stephen Hill. Sorry

[Philc1]

10 hours ago, pdxgreen said:

Well.  Then just compare it to the worst positional drafting in pro sports history.  Say... the Portland Trail Blazers history of drafting centers.  You see.  Things aren't all THAT bad!

Hey just because they passed on Michael Jordan and Kevin Durant for Sam Bowie and Greg Oden

[Philc1]

11 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Who told you Keyshawn was top 3 while he was here?  Top 3 but never better than 6th in any category?  Big mouthed target hog.  100% should have taken Ogden.

Keyshawn 1998-1999 was a top 3 WR.  Not to mention his qbs in 1999 were Rick Mirer and Ray Lucas you don’t think that impacted his stats?

 

Once he got to Tampa he lost a step but while he was here he was tremendous 

[pdxgreen]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

Hey just because they passed on Michael Jordan and Kevin Durant for Sam Bowie and Greg Oden

And picking Larue Martin and dumping Moses Malone for a pick that ended up being Mychal Thompson. 

[Lith]

13 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I think Rob Moore is missing from that list.  He should be between Moss and Martin in yardage.  He was a supplemental pick in '90, so cost us our first and Brett Favre in '91, but he had some fairly big years.  Anyone in love with Keyshawn should appreciate him.  1990 was the same year the drafted Mathis and Dale Dawkins out of Miami.  They had taken Reggie Rembert in the 2nd.  Guy was big and fast and refused to report.  They managed to move him for Joe Kelly and some tackle who had played for Coslet with the Bengals.

Good point on Moore.  I did not include the supplemental draft when I did the search in PFR.  My bad.  Point still holds though, we have not been able to consistently find WR talent in the draft.  Hopefully that changes with the current regime.

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

Darnold can't throw to any WR if he's lieing on his ass under a 300 pound defensive lineman .

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN said:

Darnold can't throw to any WR if he's lieing on his ass under a 300 pound defensive lineman .

Or under a 110 pound high school girl with a cold sore 

[southparkcpa]

17 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Last 3 Jets WRS drafted in round 1:

 

Santana Moss -  good player, would have been better if we had a qb who could throw past 5 yards

Keyshawn - top 3 WR while he was here

Al Toon - excellent player

 

The jets have actually been good at drafting top round WRs

The fact that they were drafted by different GM's obviously makes it pointless.  BUT...  I say OLINE.

[southparkcpa]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

Or under a 110 pound high school girl with a cold sore 

WTF??? Jealous?

[Jetsfan80]

17 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Last 3 Jets WRS drafted in round 1:

 

Santana Moss -  good player, would have been better if we had a qb who could throw past 5 yards

Keyshawn - top 3 WR while he was here

Al Toon - excellent player

 

The jets have actually been good at drafting top round WRs

 

4 decades and all we have to show for it at the WR position are Toon, a completely overrated Keyshawn and Mr Alligator Arms?  That's a terrible track record.  

This makes me want to draft a WR even less, not more.  

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

Keyshawn 1998-1999 was a top 3 WR.  Not to mention his qbs in 1999 were Rick Mirer and Ray Lucas you don’t think that impacted his stats?

 

Once he got to Tampa he lost a step but while he was here he was tremendous 

Guess you had a #19 jersey.   You love to make declarative statements with 100% certainty.  It doesn't bother you at all that they are completely false. 

Randy Moss put up almost the same numbers in that span and he didn't get drafted until a year in.  Herman Moore, Cris Carter, Jimmy Smith, Tim Brown, Antonio Freeman were all obviously better over the entire period.   It is arguable that guys like Johnnie Morton, Tony Martin and Terrance Mathis were too.  Keyshawn was good and consistent, but he was a big possession receiver.  I will give you top 10, but he was never top 3 for a year or any combination of years that you try to devise.

Guys like Harrison and Moss were already obviously better.  Other guys like Irvin and probably Fryar were better but on their way out.   It helps that it was when Rice missed the year and had some down time, but he came back better than Keyshawn ever was.  He actually had a couple of big years in Tampa, but not top 3. 

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Lith said:

Good point on Moore.  I did not include the supplemental draft when I did the search in PFR.  My bad.  Point still holds though, we have not been able to consistently find WR talent in the draft.  Hopefully that changes with the current regime.

If you look, I think most of the guys there were during Ron Wolf's time. Not sure if it was Wolf or the rest of them. Getting guys like Martin and Mathis that late is pretty good.  The problem is they all came in a 3 year span.  

I guess it didn't hurt that Coslet drafted so much offense.

[Philc1]

10 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

4 decades and all we have to show for it at the WR position are Toon, a completely overrated Keyshawn and Mr Alligator Arms?  That's a terrible track record.  

This makes me want to draft a WR even less, not more.  

Well considering the jets last time drafting a WR in round 1 was 18 years ago that figures

[Philc1]

12 hours ago, pdxgreen said:

And picking Larue Martin and dumping Moses Malone for a pick that ended up being Mychal Thompson. 

At least they didn’t trade a 18 year old Kobe Bryant for Vlade Divac

[slimjasi]

11 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

4 decades and all we have to show for it at the WR position are Toon, a completely overrated Keyshawn and Mr Alligator Arms?  That's a terrible track record.

Yea, when you go 18 years without trying, it sort of hurts your totals 

[Greensleeves]

11 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Guess you had a #19 jersey.   You love to make declarative statements with 100% certainty.  It doesn't bother you at all that they are completely false. 

Randy Moss put up almost the same numbers in that span and he didn't get drafted until a year in.  Herman Moore, Cris Carter, Jimmy Smith, Tim Brown, Antonio Freeman were all obviously better over the entire period.   It is arguable that guys like Johnnie Morton, Tony Martin and Terrance Mathis were too.  Keyshawn was good and consistent, but he was a big possession receiver.  I will give you top 10, but he was never top 3 for a year or any combination of years that you try to devise.

Guys like Harrison and Moss were already obviously better.  Other guys like Irvin and probably Fryar were better but on their way out.   It helps that it was when Rice missed the year and had some down time, but he came back better than Keyshawn ever was.  He actually had a couple of big years in Tampa, but not top 3. 

No, I completely disagree. Keyshawn and Harrison were the best two receivers for that period. Keyshawn was dominant in catching and blocking and didn’t have Peyton. Edge to Keyshawn. I remember the tv shows and magazines comparing the two as the best in the league. 

[Reynolds1029]

On 3/2/2020 at 4:31 PM, Lith said:

On the other hand, here is a list of the Top 10 WRs drafted by the Jets since the 1970 merger, based upon receiving yards:

Rk	Year	Rnd	Pick	Player	Pos	DrAge	From	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	G	GS	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	College/Univ
1	1996	1	1	Keyshawn Johnson	WR	24	1996	2006	0	3	10	78	167	162	13	91	2	814	10571	64	USC	College Stats
2	2001	1	16	Santana Moss	WR	22	2001	2014	0	1	8	73	197	135	51	287	0	732	10283	66	Miami (FL)	College Stats
3	1989	5	126	Tony Martin	WR	24	1990	2001	0	1	6	66	177	100	6	-3	0	593	9065	56
4	1990	6	140	Terance Mathis	WR	23	1990	2002	0	1	8	65	206	130	14	97	2	689	8809	63	New Mexico	College Stats
5	2000	3	78	Laveranues Coles	WR	22	2000	2009	0	1	9	67	153	138	37	231	0	674	8609	49	Florida St.	College Stats
6	1977	2	33	Wesley Walker	WR	22	1977	1989	1	2	11	73	154	129	6	35	0	438	8306	71	California	College Stats
7	2004	4	108	Jerricho Cotchery	WR	22	2004	2015	0	0	5	52	175	89	22	93	1	524	6623	34	North Carolina St.	College Stats
8	1985	1	10	Al Toon	WR	22	1985	1992	1	3	8	54	107	95	4	7	0	517	6605	31	Wisconsin	College Stats
9	1975	8	193	James Scott	WR	23	1976	1983	0	0	5	35	71	58	2	-4	0	177	3202	20	Trinity Valley CC (TX)
10	2011	5	153	Jeremy Kerley	WR	22	2011	2018	0	0	2	23	99	40	18	133	0	270	3116	13	TCU	College Stats

This is the best we have to show for 50 years of drafts.  2 guys, Tony Martin and James Scott, who never even played for the Jets.  Two more guys (Santana Moss and Terance Mathis) who did most of their damage with other teams.  That leaves 6 WRs out of 50 years of drafts with more than 3,000 receiving yards for the Jets.

I can't imagine that another team in the league could have an uglier list than this.

 

It's tough to get the ball to any said WR when our last franchise QB before Sam was Joe Namath

[jgb]

16 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

WTF??? Jealous?

Totes

[pdxgreen]

8 hours ago, Philc1 said:

At least they didn’t trade a 18 year old Kobe Bryant for Vlade Divac

Blazers are actually a competent drafting franchise.  One of the best in NBA history.  But you can't win championships without free agency and luck.  And the Blazers never have either.

[section314]

3 hours ago, pdxgreen said:

Blazers are actually a competent drafting franchise.  One of the best in NBA history.  But you can't win championships without free agency and luck.  And the Blazers never have either.

Sam Bowie?

[pdxgreen]

27 minutes ago, section314 said:

Sam Bowie?

Players drafted by the Portland Trail Blazers: 

Aryvdas Sabonis and Drazen Petrovic (two HOFers taken in back to back rounds in 86)

Lionel Hollins NBA All Star/All Defensive Team/NBA Champion

Clyde Drexler HOF

Bill Walton MVP/HOF

Geoff Petrie ROY/2 time All Star

Jim Paxson 2 time All Star

Terry Porter 2 time All Star PG from NAIA school nobody had ever heard of. 

Jerome Kersey Div III player drafted in second round/10 year starter and NBA champion with Spurs

Cliff Robinson NBA All Star

Jermaine O'Neil  6 time All Star

Zach Randolph 2 time All Star

Brandon Roy 3 time All Star

Damian Lillard  5 time All Star/NBA First Team

CJ Mcollum NBA MIP Player/22 career point average'

I guess if you base their entire history on two first rounds picks and exclude every other pick they ever made.

 

[section314]

7 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

Players drafted by the Portland Trail Blazers: 

Aryvdas Sabonis and Drazen Petrovic (two HOFers taken in back to back rounds in 86)

Lionel Hollins NBA All Star/All Defensive Team/NBA Champion

Clyde Drexler HOF

Bill Walton MVP/HOF

Geoff Petrie ROY/2 time All Star

Jim Paxson 2 time All Star

Terry Porter 2 time All Star PG from NAIA school nobody had ever heard of. 

Jerome Kersey Div III player drafted in second round/10 year starter and NBA champion with Spurs

Cliff Robinson NBA All Star

Jermaine O'Neil  6 time All Star

Zach Randolph 2 time All Star

Brandon Roy 3 time All Star

Damian Lillard  5 time All Star/NBA First Team

CJ Mcollum NBA MIP Player/22 career point average'

I guess if you base their entire history on two first rounds picks and exclude every other pick they ever made.

 

Just bustin', but Michael was a pretty big miss.

[pdxgreen]

19 minutes ago, section314 said:

Just bustin', but Michael was a pretty big miss.

If you never get any free agents and make a major trade once every three years, of course your misses are going to be huge.  LaRue Martin was probably a worse pick than Jordan in the scope of things... because they literally got nothing from him.  But nobody remembers because they won the title in '77.  Cleveland was literally the worst organization in all of sports... Lebron comes along.  Hey... remember those 10 years we traded away all those picks?  No.  Remember when we beat Golden State... YEAH!  It's just a selective memory because when you think of Portland nothing else comes to mind.

[Philc1]

11 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Yea, when you go 18 years without trying, it sort of hurts your totals 

Lol

[section314]

25 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

If you never get any free agents and make a major trade once every three years, of course your misses are going to be huge.  LaRue Martin was probably a worse pick than Jordan in the scope of things... because they literally got nothing from him.  But nobody remembers because they won the title in '77.  Cleveland was literally the worst organization in all of sports... Lebron comes along.  Hey... remember those 10 years we traded away all those picks?  No.  Remember when we beat Golden State... YEAH!  It's just a selective memory because when you think of Portland nothing else comes to mind.

I may be older than you, but I was in college when the “Walton Gang” won the NBA title in 1977, and the next year were something like 50-8 when he got hurt. That was one of the greatest “teams” I ever saw play. They were a pleasure to watch. 

[Philc1]

On 3/4/2020 at 8:42 AM, pdxgreen said:

If you never get any free agents and make a major trade once every three years, of course your misses are going to be huge.  LaRue Martin was probably a worse pick than Jordan in the scope of things... because they literally got nothing from him.  But nobody remembers because they won the title in '77.  Cleveland was literally the worst organization in all of sports... Lebron comes along.  Hey... remember those 10 years we traded away all those picks?  No.  Remember when we beat Golden State... YEAH!  It's just a selective memory because when you think of Portland nothing else comes to mind.

The main reason the blazers passed on Jordan was they already had Clyde Drexler so that’s semi understandable

 

 

in 2006 the people who know everything said Greg Oden was the next Tim Duncan.  I preferred Durant because I thought he was a beast in Texas and Oden’s freshman year at Ohio St didn’t impress me

[14 in Green]

On 3/4/2020 at 9:11 AM, section314 said:

I may be older than you, but I was in college when the “Walton Gang” won the NBA title in 1977, and the next year were something like 50-8 when he got hurt. That was one of the greatest “teams” I ever saw play. They were a pleasure to watch. 

That team was so good, and Walton... just imagine if he had stayed healthy. What a great, great player.

I'm not positive but I think the Blazers went really deep in the playoffs in '78 even without Walton. I remember rooting really hard for them to pull it off...

[section314]

8 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

That team was so good, and Walton... just imagine if he had stayed healthy. What a great, great player.

I'm not positive but I think the Blazers went really deep in the playoffs in '78 even without Walton. I remember rooting really hard for them to pull it off...

I think you are correct.  Maurice Lucas(good luck trying to get offensive rebounds with him and Walton)  Bobby Gross  Lionel Hollins. That team was the closet thing to the Knicks from 68-73 that I can remember.

[Integrity28]

Beningo is a ninny.

We should draft WR because 1.) we need them and 2.) this class is loaded.

Having drafted a couple good WRs 2 decades ago has nothing to do with it.

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Beningo is a ninny.

We should draft WR because 1.) we need them and 2.) this class is loaded.

Having drafted a couple good WRs 2 decades ago has nothing to do with it.

Yes it does.  

[Philc1]

11 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

That team was so good, and Walton... just imagine if he had stayed healthy. What a great, great player.

I'm not positive but I think the Blazers went really deep in the playoffs in '78 even without Walton. I remember rooting really hard for them to pull it off...

Blazers also had really good teams in the 90’s and early 2000’s

 

They basically got Rasheed Wallace for nothing

 

[Integrity28]

33 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Yes it does.