Darnold hit piece on ESPN front page, "Is his talent salvageable?"

[SackExchangeNYJ]

So Barnwell is playing all sides of this, evidently. One minute, Darnold is on his last chance. The next, the WRs are to blame.
 

 

[Kleckineau]

Hey hit piece or not I dont need any "journalist" telling me what I already have seen from our latest QB from USC.

Can he still turn out to be a very good QB? Sure and we all really hope he turns it up this year however all this begs the questions of how many of us are whistling past the grave yard when we talk up his potential, will he prove his supporters right or will we once again be saying "Thanks Mac"

[Sammybighead]

Articles like this are great, I hope Sam is reading them all.

[14 in Green]

10 minutes ago, Sammybighead said:

Articles like this are great, I hope Sam is reading them all.

Lol at Sam being like... “Enough already! that Barnwell article was just the motivation I needed after two seasons...”

[slats]

3 hours ago, Losmeister said:

For Darnold to break through in 2020, he needs something to really go his way. He needs that brutal schedule to lighten up thanks to injuries, or for Bell to have a big year as a runner. He needs one of Perriman, Mims or Herndon to emerge as a star target. There's still upside in Darnold's profile, and at his best, he still looks like that prototypical quarterback prospect. I just don't think he's going to be able to deliver on his own.

The lack of weapons argument lives in 2020! Woohoo! 

As it should, because the Jets' OL and WRs are still something of a hodgepodge until they prove otherwise. If we're talking about Becton and Mims looking like stars early, that'll probably mean that Sam Darnold is off to a terrific start. 

[Jets723]

59 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Fair assessment, although I partially disagree.  I don't think Sam is a passenger on the bus who can only go as far as some superior talent around him takes him.  I think he has the ability to make guys around him a little better, to create something out of nothing when plays break down, etc.  Mark Sanchez was a passenger on the bus.  Sam Darnold can be a bus driver.  I'm just hoping that with Joe D at the helm we finally have some gas in the bus.

Agreed.  Like I’ve always said I dont care how talented of a QB you are if you have BOTH no weapons and no oline you arent going to excel that’s just a fact.  I’ve been very up front about the things Sam needed to work on But I have a lot of faith I bum because we have seen the flashes despite being in a terrible situation his first two years 

[CTM]

4 hours ago, Trolly McTrollface said:

He talked about weakness in his game

There are no weakness in his game allright!!! Gosh!!

[CTM]

53 minutes ago, SackExchangeNYJ said:

So Barnwell is playing all sides of this, evidently. One minute, Darnold is on his last chance. The next, the WRs are to blame.
 

 

Probably because both can be and in fact are true 

[CTJetsFan]

4 hours ago, Warfish said:

His numbers to-date ARE terrible.

We SHOULD be hoping his talent and potential can be salvaged.

If Darnold doesn't improve on his first two years, half this forum will be asking out loud if he should even be extended.

 

In another thread someone posted that if you extract his 4 worst games from the last 2 years (out of the 24 or so he has played), his stats are actually in the top half of the league (if I recall). When he has a bad game, it's usually really bad. Otherwise, he has played pretty well. The knock on him coming out of USC was fumbling which he has cleaned up.

[SackExchangeNYJ]

5 minutes ago, CTM said:

Probably because both can be and in fact are true 

So he's on his last chance.

[Warfish]

3 minutes ago, CTJetsFan said:

In another thread someone posted that if you extract his 4 worst games from the last 2 years (out of the 24 or so he has played), his stats are actually in the top half of the league (if I recall). When he has a bad game, it's usually really bad. Otherwise, he has played pretty well. The knock on him coming out of USC was fumbling which he has cleaned up.

Why should we extract his four worst games?

How are his stats if we just extract his four best games?

We all hope he plays materially better this year, right?  Ok then.

[slats]

2 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Agreed.  Like I’ve always said I dont care how talented of a QB you are if you have BOTH no weapons and no oline you arent going to excel that’s just a fact.  I’ve been very up front about the things Sam needed to work on But I have a lot of faith I bum because we have seen the flashes despite being in a terrible situation his first two years 

We've still got folks here trying to convince me that Bell is still an elite RB. Big 3.2 yards per carry last year. Pretty sure there's a stat out there that he was hit behind the line more than any other RB, too. That's the excuse for Bell, it's all the OL's fault...

But in the next breath, that's not an excuse for the youngest QB to ever start a season? That OL and Robby Anderson as his #1 target? What QB is expected to be effective in that situation? 

Sure, he has things to work on. But most of them, IMHO, are bad habits he's developing running for his life. Like the back foot throws. He steps up when he can, but that seems to've been pretty rare. Or trying to do too much, again, because of no push in the running game, bad play calling, a penalty, or maybe Darnold himself on occasion putting him in a position where he needs a lot of yards on one play. The support for this kid simply hasn't been there. Does he have to get better? Of course! The whole offense has to get a lot better. 

[slats]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Why should we extract his four worst games?

How are his stats if we just extract his four best games?

We all hope he plays materially better this year, right?  Ok then.

I did the numbers somewhere else, but if you took out Darnold's best and worst game last year, his stats rose to close to the middle of the pack. I don't remember exactly, but it was a fairly significant move up. It was really only that Cheatriot game that was the outlier of the whole season. But that was a national TV game and it sticks in people's minds. 

[SackExchangeNYJ]

8 minutes ago, slats said:

We've still got folks here trying to convince me that Bell is still an elite RB. Big 3.2 yards per carry last year. Pretty sure there's a stat out there that he was hit behind the line more than any other RB, too. That's the excuse for Bell, it's all the OL's fault...

But in the next breath, that's not an excuse for the youngest QB to ever start a season? That OL and Robby Anderson as his #1 target? What QB is expected to be effective in that situation? 

Sure, he has things to work on. But most of them, IMHO, are bad habits he's developing running for his life. Like the back foot throws. He steps up when he can, but that seems to've been pretty rare. Or trying to do too much, again, because of no push in the running game, bad play calling, a penalty, or maybe Darnold himself on occasion putting him in a position where he needs a lot of yards on one play. The support for this kid simply hasn't been there. Does he have to get better? Of course! The whole offense has to get a lot better. 

So what you're saying is that there is a gray area? That it is possible to say Darnold has some developing to do, that he has some work to do to develop his game, but he's still young and has potential, and has had a terrible supporting cast around him in his first two years that is starting to get a bit better?

[Jets723]

12 minutes ago, slats said:

We've still got folks here trying to convince me that Bell is still an elite RB. Big 3.2 yards per carry last year. Pretty sure there's a stat out there that he was hit behind the line more than any other RB, too. That's the excuse for Bell, it's all the OL's fault...

But in the next breath, that's not an excuse for the youngest QB to ever start a season? That OL and Robby Anderson as his #1 target? What QB is expected to be effective in that situation? 

Sure, he has things to work on. But most of them, IMHO, are bad habits he's developing running for his life. Like the back foot throws. He steps up when he can, but that seems to've been pretty rare. Or trying to do too much, again, because of no push in the running game, bad play calling, a penalty, or maybe Darnold himself on occasion putting him in a position where he needs a lot of yards on one play. The support for this kid simply hasn't been there. Does he have to get better? Of course! The whole offense has to get a lot better. 

Absolutely.  Unfortunately the previous regime failed to prioritize the oline as well as the offense in general.  The good news is that we finally have a GM who knows what he is doing and took some great strides to finally help support our young QB.  Obviously he can’t fix everything in one offseason but I think we are in good hands going forward with this GM and this QB

[slats]

6 minutes ago, SackExchangeNYJ said:

So what you're saying is that there is a gray area? That it is possible to say Darnold has some developing to do, that he has some work to do to develop his game, but he's still young and has potential, and has had a terrible supporting cast around him in his first two years that is starting to get a bit better?

Lol! I feel like I’ve been trying to say that for some time, now. 

[CTM]

18 minutes ago, SackExchangeNYJ said:

So he's on his last chance.

Depends what last means to you, if hes a bottom 5 QB this year its hos last year as the defacto starter I think and Douglas will have to bring in legit competition.

If last means hell be out of the NFL, then obv no 

 

[CTJetsFan]

18 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Why should we extract his four worst games?

How are his stats if we just extract his four best games?

We all hope he plays materially better this year, right?  Ok then.

Fair enough. Would be an interesting exercise to extract the 4 best games as well and see what his stats are.

[SackExchangeNYJ]

1 minute ago, CTM said:

Depends what last means to you, if hes a bottom 5 QB this year its hos last year as the defacto starter I think and Douglas will have to bring in legit competition.

If last means hell be out of the NFL, then obv no 

 

Well, Barnwell's piece talked about if Gase was dumped by the Jets, a new HC could be looking for his own choice at QB. So that would mean Darnold would be tossed aside at the age of 23. 

I agree that if he is bottom five, the idea of the starting job being his will no longer be guaranteed. He'd have to win the job. But I don't see the Jets dumping him after this year. At worst, they would choose not to pick up his fifth year option, and if he became a stud in his fourth year, they'd tag him and try to extend him. And honestly, that's not likely. He will quite likely be here at least two more years after 2020, whether he is starting or not.

[slats]

6 minutes ago, SackExchangeNYJ said:

Well, Barnwell's piece talked about if Gase was dumped by the Jets, a new HC could be looking for his own choice at QB. So that would mean Darnold would be tossed aside at the age of 23. 

I agree that if he is bottom five, the idea of the starting job being his will no longer be guaranteed. He'd have to win the job. But I don't see the Jets dumping him after this year. At worst, they would choose not to pick up his fifth year option, and if he became a stud in his fourth year, they'd tag him and try to extend him. And honestly, that's not likely. He will quite likely be here at least two more years after 2020, whether he is starting or not.

I think so. Even if they did decide to fire Gase, I’d expect the Johnsons and Joe Douglas to want their new head coach to try to make it work with Darnold. 

[Warfish]

36 minutes ago, slats said:

I did the numbers somewhere else, but if you took out Darnold's best and worst game last year, his stats rose to close to the middle of the pack. I don't remember exactly, but it was a fairly significant move up. It was really only that Cheatriot game that was the outlier of the whole season. But that was a national TV game and it sticks in people's minds. 

I'll just quote you, because I honestly don't think anything additional is required here.

36 minutes ago, slats said:

Does he have to get better? Of course!

We agree.  He has to get better, of course.

[ljr]

is there any reason to not expect his numbers in year 3 to at least continue to improve at the same rate they did from year 1 to year 2? 

(keeping the numbers as simple as possible and give me the liberty to project him to a full 16 game season)

The expectation for his 2020 season would be

 66% completion percentage,  3900 yards, 25 TD's, 14 INT's with a quarterback ranking of 91

---

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DarnSa00.htm

 

[slats]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

I'll just quote you, because I honestly don't think anything additional is required here.

We agree.  He has to get better, of course.

Lol, fine. But his overall numbers are skewed pretty significantly by that single game. I did remember where he wound up with my little math game, right next to Brady and Rivers. Two guys on the downside, but still worth $20M+? 

Oh, and before you ask, I didn’t do the math for Brady and Rivers, but I did eyeball it. I’d guess that Brady’s numbers wouldn’t move, but that Rivers would drop a bit. Unlike Darnold, his best game was much more of an outlier than his worst. 

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, slats said:

But his overall numbers are skewed pretty significantly by that single game.

Many of our lives are "skewed" by single games, single days, etc.  Selective cherry picking can make alot of things look better than they are. 

Quote

I did remember where he wound up with my little math game, right next to Brady and Rivers. Two guys on the downside, but still worth $20M+? 

Oh, and before you ask, I didn’t do the math for Brady and Rivers, but I did eyeball it.

One guy no Jets fan would want anything to do with (Rivers) and one guy who had a very poor (by his standards) seasons where he was not the driving force of his teams success?

Make a poll, ask JN if "Would you be happy with Phillip Rivers as our QB for 2020", see what the answer is, lol.

Like you said, he needs to get better.  Obviously.  Especially if he wants 20M/year.

[Skeet Ulrich]

Why is simply stating the fact that Darnold has been one of the worst QBs in the NFL since being drafted such a crime around here?

No one's saying he can't improve or he's had a lot of mitigating circumstances. But he hasn't been good.

 

[GreekJet]

11 hours ago, Trolly McTrollface said:

Good point. Sanchez had an engaging personality and an ability to laugh at himself which made him very likeable.

Sam seems beyond boring. A lot of guys here might see that and turn it into him being an all business type of guy. That might be true, I don’t know.

It seems to me that he isnt the type to exude any signs of vocal leadership either in the press, the locker room, or on the field. Maybe he has done/does do that, but it’s certainly not something that jumps out at you.

 

I actually go the chance to personally meet Sam at an ESPN radio function my company was involved in. He’s a very nice/mature kid that seems to really have his head on straight. There is nothing wrong with his personality that I’m aware of. 

[GreekJet]

9 hours ago, slats said:

I think so. Even if they did decide to fire Gase, I’d expect the Johnsons and Joe Douglas to want their new head coach to try to make it work with Darnold. 

I agree wholeheartedly. For what the Jets gave up to draft Darnold they are going to give him every possible chance to be successful before pulling the plug. 
 

 

[Losmeister]

10 hours ago, slats said:

I did the numbers somewhere else, but if you took out Darnold's best and worst game last year, his stats rose to close to the middle of the pack. I don't remember exactly, but it was a fairly significant move up. It was really only that Cheatriot game that was the outlier of the whole season. But that was a national TV game and it sticks in people's minds. 

btw, i forget where teh f i just was...  but that game was actually the worst game ever played by a jet qb...   

yes, including brooks bollinger

[Losmeister]

10 hours ago, slats said:

We've still got folks here trying to convince me that Bell is still an elite RB. Big 3.2 yards per carry last year. Pretty sure there's a stat out there that he was hit behind the line more than any other RB, too. That's the excuse for Bell, it's all the OL's fault...

But in the next breath, that's not an excuse for the youngest QB to ever start a season? That OL and Robby Anderson as his #1 target? What QB is expected to be effective in that situation? 

Sure, he has things to work on. But most of them, IMHO, are bad habits he's developing running for his life. Like the back foot throws. He steps up when he can, but that seems to've been pretty rare. Or trying to do too much, again, because of no push in the running game, bad play calling, a penalty, or maybe Darnold himself on occasion putting him in a position where he needs a lot of yards on one play. The support for this kid simply hasn't been there. Does he have to get better? Of course! The whole offense has to get a lot better. 

no.. not an excuse for, oh , let me stop completely behind the los cos i aim known for y accelration, bell...

he sucked as much as the ol did...   no slower rb in the nfl...   what was his yards after contact??

[Losmeister]

there is no slamming sam cos he's got bad character...     hes a good kid. 

his lame footwork does not bode well...

the odds are against him being above average based on the data we have....

can it happen? yes. will it? 

we the jets, so ...the odds say no. but???    miracles DO happen. 

 

[Losmeister]

just curious..

 

what does JN think of Aikman?

me? decent qb on a great team. not more. not a great qb. a solid piece. Romo was significantly better. a very good qb, not quite great...flirted with greatness.

[Losmeister]

13 hours ago, SackExchangeNYJ said:

So Barnwell is playing all sides of this, evidently. One minute, Darnold is on his last chance. The next, the WRs are to blame.
 

 

it is not a hit piece...which is why i said the op didnt read the article...  there is substantial time given to every excuse that JN gives for sam..personnel, coahces, et cet....

[Losmeister]

12 hours ago, CTM said:

Probably because both can be and in fact are true 

its crazy. cos the article does not slam sam... it is a decent piece that includes all levels of excuses jn makes for sam... 

his conclusiojn isngt what jn wants, in that he believes sam will be as good as his surroundings.

see above question re: aikman

[GreekJet]

3 hours ago, Losmeister said:

there is no slamming sam cos he's got bad character...     hes a good kid. 

his lame footwork does not bode well...

the odds are against him being above average based on the data we have....

can it happen? yes. will it? 

we the jets, so ...the odds say no. but???    miracles DO happen. 

 

Based on the data? He’s started 25 games as a 21-22 year old on an awful team and has held his own. The “data” offers zero context.

Let me also be clear football “analytics” is totally worthless, and PFF is total click bait at this point. We are talking about team sport with a ton of variables and a limited sample size. 

[Philc1]

On 7/3/2020 at 12:13 PM, playtowinthegame said:

Translation: Darnold hit piece by Giants fan.

ESPN is all giants and patriots fans. 
 

all of their shows currently suck.  I’d rather watch Fox Sports with Colin Cowherd