The Jets are the best reason why you don't honor sunken costs at QB

[Jetsfan80]

The 2005 Jets were coming off a playoff season, and one in which Chad Pennington had played reasonably well.  However, it was also a season where he missed 3 games to injury.  He'd missed 6 in 2003.  However, this seemed to be enough at QB to "run it back" in 2005, and the Jets decided to trade back from the # 23 spot with the Raiders, adding worthless TE Doug Jolley in the mix and ending up taking a Kicker with their first pick in the 2nd round.

Who went the pick after the Jets' original pick slot?  Aaron Rodgers, at # 24. 

Granted, there's no reason to believe the team would have taken Rodgers at that spot even if they were ready to move on from Pennington.  They may well have opted for an alternative QB in that draft, like Jason Campbell, Charlie Frye, Andrew Walter or David Greene.  But its still true that Rodgers would have been available to them.

In 2012, the Jets tried to bring in Peyton Manning, and failed.  As part of a "makeup sex" attempt, they unnecessarily went out of their way to hand Sanchez an expensive contract extension.  In Round 2, rumor has it that Terry Bradway was "pounding the table" for Russell Wilson, but Mike Tannenbaum opted to run it back with Sanchez instead.

We're all well aware of the Christian Hackenberg-Jamal Adams vs Pat Mahomes/Deshaun Watson decision.  No need to rehash that one.  

That's 3 instances where the Jets had chances to draft HOF-caliber Quarterbacks, but instead settled for what they already had on the roster, despite all available evidence suggesting their QB's at the time were not the answer.

Those few fans out there who are afraid of Sam Darnold going on to greatness elsewhere, and would prefer to hang on for another year, should be far more worried about passing on a QB (whoever it is from this class, if anyone) who may well go on to be a future Hall of Famer.  After all, no Jet QB who failed with the Jets went on to great success elsewhere.  But at least 3 times, QB's the Jets passed on did.  

[joewilly12]

Doug Jolley sheesh sh*ts been deep here for years and years. 

 

[Gastineau Lives]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

Doug Jolley sheesh sh*ts been deep here for years and years. 

 

 

 

Yes, come right in now, Sir. Dr. Rorschach will see you now.

[joewilly12]

3 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Yes, come right in now, Sir. Dr. Rorschach will see you now.

No thanks you can have my appointment.

Enjoy I know you will. 

 

[GREENBEAN]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

After all, no Jet QB who failed with the Jets went on to great success elsewhere.  But at least 3 times, QB's the Jets passed on did.  

wow man.  It's crazy when you look at it in a collected way like this.  we are the top of the suck heap and no one can even compare imo. 

It's only fitting that the Jets become the worst team in history this year. That's marker is ours! We deserve it and we earned it!!  

[bitonti]

I'm shocked that Neanderthals like NFL coaches don't understand sunk cost fallacy 

SHOCKED 

[#27TheDominator]

Cute story, but I think it is factually inaccurate.  The Jets traded their first to the Raiders for Jolley and a 2nd, but Rodgers would not have been available.  The Raiders ended up picking at #23, but that was after they moved up from our pick (#26) by throwing in a 5th to the Seahawks to take Fabian Washington.  Then Rodgers and Jason Campbell before the Seahawks took Chris Spencer with the Jets original pick. 

FWIW, the Jets weren't even complacent at QB in 2005.  They signed Jay Fiedler who had some fairly strong seasons for the Dolphins, but was dropped by Saban for Gus Frerotte.  I'm not sure how many snaps Fielder lasted after Pennington went down, but it wasn't many.  Thus ushering in the Brooks Bollinger era.

[#27TheDominator]

FWIW, Rodgers is probably the type of QB that required development and I am not confident that would have happened.  Jeremy Bates was QB coach!

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The 2005 Jets were coming off a playoff season, and one in which Chad Pennington had played reasonably well.  However, it was also a season where he missed 3 games to injury.  He'd missed 6 in 2003.  However, this seemed to be enough at QB to "run it back" in 2005, and the Jets decided to trade back from the # 23 spot with the Raiders, adding worthless TE Doug Jolley in the mix and ending up taking a Kicker with their first pick in the 2nd round.

Who went the pick after the Jets' original pick slot?  Aaron Rodgers, at # 24. 

Granted, there's no reason to believe the team would have taken Rodgers at that spot even if they were ready to move on from Pennington.  They may well have opted for an alternative QB in that draft, like Jason Campbell, Charlie Frye, Andrew Walter or David Greene.  But its still true that Rodgers would have been available to them.

In 2012, the Jets tried to bring in Peyton Manning, and failed.  As part of a "makeup sex" attempt, they unnecessarily went out of their way to hand Sanchez an expensive contract extension.  In Round 2, rumor has it that Terry Bradway was "pounding the table" for Russell Wilson, but Mike Tannenbaum opted to run it back with Sanchez instead.

We're all well aware of the Christian Hackenberg-Jamal Adams vs Pat Mahomes/Deshaun Watson decision.  No need to rehash that one.  

That's 3 instances where the Jets had chances to draft HOF-caliber Quarterbacks, but instead settled for what they already had on the roster, despite all available evidence suggesting their QB's at the time were not the answer.

Those few fans out there who are afraid of Sam Darnold going on to greatness elsewhere, and would prefer to hang on for another year, should be far more worried about passing on a QB (whoever it is from this class, if anyone) who may well go on to be a future Hall of Famer.  After all, no Jet QB who failed with the Jets went on to great success elsewhere.  But at least 3 times, QB's the Jets passed on did.  

Depressing to read this.  I think the moral of the story is to not be afraid to upgrade the position and try to make sure the assessment of the QBs is right.  It wasn’t that long before chaddy was determined to be fragile yet they kept going with him about 3 seasons too long.  And when they did use a pretty high draft pick for the position they drafted Clemmons.  And it goes on and on.  That’s why they should move on from darnold if Lawrence is available.

[Creepy Lurker]

33 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

wow man.  It's crazy when you look at it in a collected way like this.  we are the top of the suck heap and no one can even compare imo. 

It's only fitting that the Jets become the worst team in history this year. That's marker is ours! We deserve it and we earned it!!  

I wouldn’t want it any other way. 

[Creepy Lurker]

1 minute ago, rangerous said:

Depressing to read this.  I think the moral of the story is to not be afraid to upgrade the position and try to make sure the assessment of the QBs is right.  It wasn’t that long before chaddy was determined to be fragile yet they kept going with him about 3 seasons too long.  And when they did use a pretty high draft pick for the position they drafted Clemmons.  And it goes on and on.  That’s why they should move on from darnold if Lawrence is available.

I agree, we need to draft more run stuffing DTs and keep the pipeline healthy. Just because we have Q, doesn’t mean we can’t find the next Leonard Williams. 

[Losmeister]

43 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

wow man.  It's crazy when you look at it in a collected way like this.  we are the top of the suck heap and no one can even compare imo. 

It's only fitting that the Jets become the worst team in history this year. That's marker is ours! We deserve it and we earned it!!  

Trumaine/Sam/Levon/CJ

quartert of queasiness, brought to you by McCagnan

the insane amount of resources used and next to nothing in return...     

and I say it that way b/c a heaping pile of dung is SOMEthing

 

[jago]

rex/tanny went toxic like a drug addled hollywood couple as tanny enabled foolish emotional moves like chasing manning then marks extension, tebow signing and rex draft meddling.

[#27TheDominator]

16 minutes ago, jago said:

rex/tanny went toxic like a drug addled hollywood couple as tanny enabled foolish emotional moves like chasing manning then marks extension, tebow signing and rex draft meddling.

^

True, but still considerably better than this. 

[ZachEY]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The 2005 Jets were coming off a playoff season, and one in which Chad Pennington had played reasonably well.  However, it was also a season where he missed 3 games to injury.  He'd missed 6 in 2003.  However, this seemed to be enough at QB to "run it back" in 2005, and the Jets decided to trade back from the # 23 spot with the Raiders, adding worthless TE Doug Jolley in the mix and ending up taking a Kicker with their first pick in the 2nd round.

Who went the pick after the Jets' original pick slot?  Aaron Rodgers, at # 24. 

Granted, there's no reason to believe the team would have taken Rodgers at that spot even if they were ready to move on from Pennington.  They may well have opted for an alternative QB in that draft, like Jason Campbell, Charlie Frye, Andrew Walter or David Greene.  But its still true that Rodgers would have been available to them.

In 2012, the Jets tried to bring in Peyton Manning, and failed.  As part of a "makeup sex" attempt, they unnecessarily went out of their way to hand Sanchez an expensive contract extension.  In Round 2, rumor has it that Terry Bradway was "pounding the table" for Russell Wilson, but Mike Tannenbaum opted to run it back with Sanchez instead.

We're all well aware of the Christian Hackenberg-Jamal Adams vs Pat Mahomes/Deshaun Watson decision.  No need to rehash that one.  

That's 3 instances where the Jets had chances to draft HOF-caliber Quarterbacks, but instead settled for what they already had on the roster, despite all available evidence suggesting their QB's at the time were not the answer.

Those few fans out there who are afraid of Sam Darnold going on to greatness elsewhere, and would prefer to hang on for another year, should be far more worried about passing on a QB (whoever it is from this class, if anyone) who may well go on to be a future Hall of Famer.  After all, no Jet QB who failed with the Jets went on to great success elsewhere.  But at least 3 times, QB's the Jets passed on did.  

The irony is, that while all this is true, the only thing Jets fans are actually worried about, is Sam Darnold becoming good on the Pats or Steelers.

[GREENBEAN]

1 hour ago, Losmeister said:

Trumaine/Sam/Levon/CJ

quartert of queasiness, brought to you by McCagnan

the insane amount of resources used and next to nothing in return...     

and I say it that way b/c a heaping pile of dung is SOMEthing

 

Don't forget Wilkerson, Enunwa and Anderson. Granted Anderson had a good game last week but I'd say that was a big flub as well. 

[Losmeister]

35 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

Don't forget Wilkerson, Enunwa and Anderson. Granted Anderson had a good game last week but I'd say that was a big flub as well. 

Wilk and Enunwa for resources used w/o return... good one

I dont inlcude Robbo cos hes in resources NOT used category

[#27TheDominator]

34 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

Wilk and Enunwa for resources used w/o return... good one

I dont inlcude Robbo cos hes in resources NOT used category

I think he meant Henry. 

[#27TheDominator]

I think 2017 was a better, more sad and much more recent illustration.  They supposedly were not interested in a QB because they had Hackenberg and felt that the 2018 class of Darnold, Mayfield, Rosen, Allen was a world better than Trubisky, Mahomes, Watson in 2017.  This sucks so bad, on so many levels it is hard to even imagine .

[Jet_Engine1]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The 2005 Jets were coming off a playoff season, and one in which Chad Pennington had played reasonably well.  However, it was also a season where he missed 3 games to injury.  He'd missed 6 in 2003.  However, this seemed to be enough at QB to "run it back" in 2005, and the Jets decided to trade back from the # 23 spot with the Raiders, adding worthless TE Doug Jolley in the mix and ending up taking a Kicker with their first pick in the 2nd round.

Who went the pick after the Jets' original pick slot?  Aaron Rodgers, at # 24. 

Granted, there's no reason to believe the team would have taken Rodgers at that spot even if they were ready to move on from Pennington.  They may well have opted for an alternative QB in that draft, like Jason Campbell, Charlie Frye, Andrew Walter or David Greene.  But its still true that Rodgers would have been available to them.

In 2012, the Jets tried to bring in Peyton Manning, and failed.  As part of a "makeup sex" attempt, they unnecessarily went out of their way to hand Sanchez an expensive contract extension.  In Round 2, rumor has it that Terry Bradway was "pounding the table" for Russell Wilson, but Mike Tannenbaum opted to run it back with Sanchez instead.

We're all well aware of the Christian Hackenberg-Jamal Adams vs Pat Mahomes/Deshaun Watson decision.  No need to rehash that one.  

That's 3 instances where the Jets had chances to draft HOF-caliber Quarterbacks, but instead settled for what they already had on the roster, despite all available evidence suggesting their QB's at the time were not the answer.

Those few fans out there who are afraid of Sam Darnold going on to greatness elsewhere, and would prefer to hang on for another year, should be far more worried about passing on a QB (whoever it is from this class, if anyone) who may well go on to be a future Hall of Famer.  After all, no Jet QB who failed with the Jets went on to great success elsewhere.  But at least 3 times, QB's the Jets passed on did.  

Tl;dr version:

 

Never reinforce failure. Been saying that on these boards for years, since Herm....

[jago]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

^

True, but still considerably better than this. 

if you mean current situ, no doubt at the moment, but i'm more hopeful with JD here and most of his moves so far. 

[Jetsfan80]

12 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Cute story, but I think it is factually inaccurate.  The Jets traded their first to the Raiders for Jolley and a 2nd, but Rodgers would not have been available.  The Raiders ended up picking at #23, but that was after they moved up from our pick (#26) by throwing in a 5th to the Seahawks to take Fabian Washington.  Then Rodgers and Jason Campbell before the Seahawks took Chris Spencer with the Jets original pick. 

FWIW, the Jets weren't even complacent at QB in 2005.  They signed Jay Fiedler who had some fairly strong seasons for the Dolphins, but was dropped by Saban for Gus Frerotte.  I'm not sure how many snaps Fielder lasted after Pennington went down, but it wasn't many.  Thus ushering in the Brooks Bollinger era.

 

Fair enough.  Just insert Peyton Manning in for Aaron Rodgers and it still works.  At least 3 instances where the Jets missed out on drafting a HOF QB (or QB on a HOF path) because they were happy with whatever sh*tty QB they had at the time.  

[varjet]

I don’t think anyone rationally believes that the Jets will trade down from Lawrence or Fields or pass on them so they can keep Darnold and pay him $25mm in 2022.  That is ridiculous on many different levels.  

The problem is that it appears to me that the Jaguars are tanking, but the Gase is not necessarily.  Gase is trying to win games.  The first two picks are not in the bag.  We need to focus on the tank.  

[BornJetsFan1983]

On 11/25/2020 at 7:52 AM, Jetsfan80 said:

The 2005 Jets were coming off a playoff season, and one in which Chad Pennington had played reasonably well.  However, it was also a season where he missed 3 games to injury.  He'd missed 6 in 2003.  However, this seemed to be enough at QB to "run it back" in 2005, and the Jets decided to trade back from the # 23 spot with the Raiders, adding worthless TE Doug Jolley in the mix and ending up taking a Kicker with their first pick in the 2nd round.

Who went the pick after the Jets' original pick slot?  Aaron Rodgers, at # 24. 

Granted, there's no reason to believe the team would have taken Rodgers at that spot even if they were ready to move on from Pennington.  They may well have opted for an alternative QB in that draft, like Jason Campbell, Charlie Frye, Andrew Walter or David Greene.  But its still true that Rodgers would have been available to them.

In 2012, the Jets tried to bring in Peyton Manning, and failed.  As part of a "makeup sex" attempt, they unnecessarily went out of their way to hand Sanchez an expensive contract extension.  In Round 2, rumor has it that Terry Bradway was "pounding the table" for Russell Wilson, but Mike Tannenbaum opted to run it back with Sanchez instead.

We're all well aware of the Christian Hackenberg-Jamal Adams vs Pat Mahomes/Deshaun Watson decision.  No need to rehash that one.  

That's 3 instances where the Jets had chances to draft HOF-caliber Quarterbacks, but instead settled for what they already had on the roster, despite all available evidence suggesting their QB's at the time were not the answer.

Those few fans out there who are afraid of Sam Darnold going on to greatness elsewhere, and would prefer to hang on for another year, should be far more worried about passing on a QB (whoever it is from this class, if anyone) who may well go on to be a future Hall of Famer.  After all, no Jet QB who failed with the Jets went on to great success elsewhere.  But at least 3 times, QB's the Jets passed on did.  

Interesting take but your good with taking qb in the first but letting him ride the pine behind Sam right?

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Interesting take but your good with taking qb in the first but letting him ride the pine behind Sam right?

No.  Draft a QB in the 1st, trade Darnold, and utilize an alternative bridge QB if needed.  Someone like Jameis Winston, Tyrod Taylor, Andy Dalton, Jacoby Brissett or Ryan Fitzpatrick (lol).  All of those guys will be free agents this offseason.

[Ian Fleming]

On 11/25/2020 at 12:23 PM, #27TheDominator said:

I'm not sure how many snaps Fielder lasted after Pennington went down, but it wasn't many.  Thus ushering in the Brooks Bollinger era.

It was against the Jaguars. About perhaps 5-10 plays after Pennington went down. 

[varjet]

38 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No.  Draft a QB in the 1st, trade Darnold, and utilize an alternative bridge QB if needed.  Someone like Jameis Winston, Tyrod Taylor, Andy Dalton, Jacoby Brissett or Ryan Fitzpatrick (lol).  All of those guys will be free agents this offseason.

Darnold costs $5mm next year.  Question is how much those guys cost and what kind of pick we can get for Darnold.  It basically becomes a question of how much we want to pay for a pick?

For example, Dalton is paid $3mm this year, Fitzpatrick $5.5mm   The Jets paid Fitz and McCown like $10mm.  So if a QB costs more than Darnold, that is what the pick obtained in a trade for Darnold costs  

 

[Maxman]

On 11/25/2020 at 10:52 AM, Jetsfan80 said:

The 2005 Jets were coming off a playoff season, and one in which Chad Pennington had played reasonably well.  However, it was also a season where he missed 3 games to injury.  He'd missed 6 in 2003.  However, this seemed to be enough at QB to "run it back" in 2005, and the Jets decided to trade back from the # 23 spot with the Raiders, adding worthless TE Doug Jolley in the mix and ending up taking a Kicker with their first pick in the 2nd round.

Who went the pick after the Jets' original pick slot?  Aaron Rodgers, at # 24. 

Granted, there's no reason to believe the team would have taken Rodgers at that spot even if they were ready to move on from Pennington.  They may well have opted for an alternative QB in that draft, like Jason Campbell, Charlie Frye, Andrew Walter or David Greene.  But its still true that Rodgers would have been available to them.

In 2012, the Jets tried to bring in Peyton Manning, and failed.  As part of a "makeup sex" attempt, they unnecessarily went out of their way to hand Sanchez an expensive contract extension.  In Round 2, rumor has it that Terry Bradway was "pounding the table" for Russell Wilson, but Mike Tannenbaum opted to run it back with Sanchez instead.

We're all well aware of the Christian Hackenberg-Jamal Adams vs Pat Mahomes/Deshaun Watson decision.  No need to rehash that one.  

That's 3 instances where the Jets had chances to draft HOF-caliber Quarterbacks, but instead settled for what they already had on the roster, despite all available evidence suggesting their QB's at the time were not the answer.

Those few fans out there who are afraid of Sam Darnold going on to greatness elsewhere, and would prefer to hang on for another year, should be far more worried about passing on a QB (whoever it is from this class, if anyone) who may well go on to be a future Hall of Famer.  After all, no Jet QB who failed with the Jets went on to great success elsewhere.  But at least 3 times, QB's the Jets passed on did.  

I didn't understand what you meant by the title, but now I get what you are saying. 

I agree 100%. I am a big Sam fan. I think he is so young that he might be really good elsewhere. But that is no reason to not improve the position.

I have seen the talk saying trade down, build around Sam. Can't do it. Draft a generational QB prospect and build around him. Sam Darnold wasn't put in the best situation. That said, he has done NOTHING to say beyond the shadow of a doubt that he is the answer. Honestly last year he looked better. The regression this year is very concerning. As are the injuries.

[MichaelScott]

22 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Fair enough.  Just insert Peyton Manning in for Aaron Rodgers and it still works.  At least 3 instances where the Jets missed out on drafting a HOF QB (or QB on a HOF path) because they were happy with whatever sh*tty QB they had at the time.  

Pat Mahomes 

[Torus34]

The New Jersey Jets are scheduled for another loss this coming Sunday, 11/29, against Miami. We may well be treated again to an interception of a pass in the closing minutes of the game, with Miami boringly running out the clock. That the Jets need a QB who will A. stay healthy and B. get the dog walked is a given. The trick, of course, will be to find one who won't get disgruntled by a team which, not to belittle it, is something less than the greatest. There will be a team willing to accept Mr. Samuel Darnold, though it may not be a very profitable transaction. Meanwhile, we can watch as the New Jersey Giants drop further down the draft pick list.

Regards, and enjoy the left-over turkey.

 

Go, Jets!

.   

[Jetsfan80]

14 hours ago, varjet said:

Darnold costs $5mm next year.  Question is how much those guys cost and what kind of pick we can get for Darnold.  It basically becomes a question of how much we want to pay for a pick?

For example, Dalton is paid $3mm this year, Fitzpatrick $5.5mm   The Jets paid Fitz and McCown like $10mm.  So if a QB costs more than Darnold, that is what the pick obtained in a trade for Darnold costs  

 

 

Keep Darnold another year and he walks in free agency for nothing.  I don't want to pay him a dime to be a sh*tty QB2/bridge QB and distraction next season.  We have cap space, so if it comes to "buying a pick", I'm fine with that.  

Draft a QB, trade Darnold.  Get what you can for him prior to his contract running out.

[Jetsfan80]

13 hours ago, MichaelScott said:

Pat Mahomes 

Yep, covered in the OP.