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Jets sign Carl Lawson


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29 minutes ago, BUM-KNEE said:

He would be suspended for the first 2 games but I'd still gladly take him

He’d be the best CB we had since 2012 Cro

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I never doubted you for a second Joe Douglas! You been my boy the whole way!!!   (Calls to cancel airplane banner)

Boom!

We got 2 quality players for fair money at premium positions today. Exactly what you look for in free agency.

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2 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Nothing you say isn’t true. It is and at the same time he is still the best pass rusher on the Jets the minute they sign him. That says a lot  more about how pathetically we handled that position for a decade than the quality of the player he is. But, gotta start somewhere I guess, especially with a defensive system like Saleh’s that is dependent on pressure from the edge, hopefully we aren’t done acquiring edge guys. 

I get it, just dont see it.  Jordan Jenkins seems like a better player to me but maybe I dont know enough about the scheme fit, so I will admit that but unless something changes, you're not getting a pass rusher and just looking at paper, seems like he fell of a cliff once Dunlap was traded.

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4 minutes ago, JiF said:

I get it, just dont see it.  Jordan Jenkins seems like a better player to me but maybe I dont know enough about the scheme fit, so I will admit that but unless something changes, you're not getting a pass rusher and just looking at paper, seems like he fell of a cliff once Dunlap was traded.

I get that and I appreciate your opinion more than most. Cause you so sexy and smart, but mostly sexy. On his own he may not be a rainmaker type but hopefully combined with Jordan Jenkins and Q the line will generate pressure, sacks and hopefully turnovers as a unit. Seems since we are obviously not in contention this year we are looking for pieces to fit together and not necessarily those stand alone star types that change games. I think Joe Douglas is hoping to draft those, he hasn’t yet, so not sure. Next we need some DBs I think, that can make a huge difference in pressure and sacks. 

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2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

I don't think there's evidence of "sack master," but he did have a lot of pressures.  Something severely lacking.

Any of us with a brain know that "sack masters" don't hit free agency.

I'm optimistic this improves the position in a meaningful way.  Not that that would be hard.

Nagakoue, Watt, Hendrickson all just changed teams and are all better pass rushers then Lawson.  Zadrius Smith changed teams.  JPP changed teams.  Leonard Floyd changed teams. Deforest Buckner. Olivier Vernon.  Jamie Collins.  Shaq Barrett.  Emmaneul Ogbah.  Justin Houston.  

silly brain 

No, I'm glad your optimistic.  Like you said, not hard to be an upgrade and I did dismiss him being a scheme fit, just dont see anything special here and his play dropped once Dunlap was gone.

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59 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

I get that and I appreciate your opinion more than most. Cause you so sexy and smart, but mostly sexy. On his own he may not be a rainmaker type but hopefully combined with Jordan Jenkins and Q the line will generate pressure, sacks and hopefully turnovers as a unit. Seems since we are obviously not in contention this year we are looking for pieces to fit together and not necessarily those stand alone star types that change games. I think Joe Douglas is hoping to draft those, he hasn’t yet, so not sure. Next we need some DBs I think, that can make a huge difference in pressure and sacks. 

Now, this, this is a sexy post.

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3 minutes ago, JiF said:

Nagakoue, Watt, Hendrickson all just changed teams and are all better pass rushers then Lawson.  Zadrius Smith changed teams.  JPP changed teams.  Leonard Floyd changed teams. Deforest Buckner. Olivier Vernon.  Jamie Collins.  Shaq Barrett.  Emmaneul Ogbah.  Justin Houston.  

silly brain 

No, I'm glad your optimistic.  Like you said, not hard to be an upgrade and I did dismiss him being a scheme fit, just dont see anything special here and his play dropped once Dunlap was gone.

Did Lawson reach his ceiling or something that I’m not aware of?

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11 minutes ago, AlexVanDyke said:

Did Lawson reach his ceiling or something that I’m not aware of?

Given that the average NFL career is what, 3 seasons?  Yes, he almost assuredly has reached his ceiling.

If you're banking on 12 sacks next year from a guy who averages 5 a season, I think you might be overly optimistic.

Lawson is an "almost there, doh, missed him!" guy.  He gets close, but rarely makes the sack or TFL.

He's better than what what we had, sure, but his resume and production speak for themselves.

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2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Given that the average NFL career is what, 3 seasons?  Yes, he almost assuredly has reached his ceiling.

If you're banking on 12 sacks next year from a guy who averages 5 a season, I think you might be overly optimistic.

Lawson is an "almost there, doh, missed him!" guy.  He gets close, but rarely makes the sack or TFL.

He's better than what what we had, sure, but his resume and production speak for themselves.

Fish it's not 3 years if a player is good you know that.:blink:

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2 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Meh Pace recorded 6.5 sacks in his last year with AZ, 99 tackles.

My bad.  70 more tackles, INT, pass deflections, TFL, fumble recoveries, etc.  point still stands....much more impactful player. 

Lawson is a one trick pony who doesnt do it well.  He cant close.  2 FF in his career, 5.5 sacks last year, 4 TFL's....with all that pressure?  He's not a closer, who disappears for long spells and had a big drop off when Dunlap left.  

Hopefully he is something different here.

 

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5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Given that the average NFL career is what, 3 seasons?  Yes, he almost assuredly has reached his ceiling.

If you're banking on 12 sacks next year from a guy who averages 5 a season, I think you might be overly optimistic.

Lawson is an "almost there, doh, missed him!" guy.  He gets close, but rarely makes the sack or TFL.

He's better than what what we had, sure, but his resume and production speak for themselves.

Trey Hendrickson had 6.5 sacks his first 3 years.

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3 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Fish it's not 3 years if a player is good you know that.:blink:

It's 3.3. years, technically.  

That's average, i.e. all players.  Good and Bad.

Again, if you're banking on 12 sacks from Lawson in 2021, don't be shocked when he comes up well short and lands in the 4-6 sack areas.

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1 minute ago, JiF said:

My bad.  70 more tackles, INT, pass deflections, TFL, fumble recoveries, etc.  point still stands....much more impactful player. 

Lawson is a one trick pony who doesnt do it well.  He cant close.  2 FF in his career, 5.5 sacks last year, 4 TFL's....with all that pressure?  He's not a closer, who disappears for long spells and had a big drop off when Dunlap left.  

Hopefully he is something different here.

 


Carlos Dunlap didn't record double digit sacks until year 6

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3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Given that the average NFL career is what, 3 seasons?  Yes, he almost assuredly has reached his ceiling.

If you're banking on 12 sacks next year from a guy who averages 5 a season, I think you might be overly optimistic.

Lawson is an "almost there, doh, missed him!" guy.  He gets close, but rarely makes the sack or TFL.

He's better than what what we had, sure, but his resume and production speak for themselves.

I think this is a harsh take.

Lawson got 8.5 sacks as a rookie, got hurt his 2nd year and had lower sack totals but high pressure rates his 3rd and 4th year. He's only 25 so i don't see why there wouldn't be a chance for him to get 8.5 or even 10 sacks. Maybe not 12 sacks but he should be an impact player. A poor mans Shaq Barrett.

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6 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:


Carlos Dunlap didn't record double digit sacks until year 6

Not sure what that has to do with anything but right on.

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53 minutes ago, JiF said:

Nagakoue, Watt, Hendrickson all just changed teams and are all better pass rushers then Lawson.  Zadrius Smith changed teams.  JPP changed teams.  Leonard Floyd changed teams. Deforest Buckner. Olivier Vernon.  Jamie Collins.  Shaq Barrett.  Emmaneul Ogbah.  Justin Houston.  

silly brain 

No, I'm glad your optimistic.  Like you said, not hard to be an upgrade and I did dismiss him being a scheme fit, just dont see anything special here and his play dropped once Dunlap was gone.

Just my view: Nagakoue changed teams twice, and my feeling was he's overrated.  Watt is well past his prime.  Hendrickson everyone is concerned is a one-year wonder.

I guess all I'm saying is these guys weren't home runs either.

Anyway, you'll let me know how it works out.  I'm not sure I can will myself to watch another season of this team with this QB.  Just wildly overcome by apathy - so, I certainly can't blame you for not liking any move.

PS, I was including you in "any of us," as I assumed we were all on the same page that "sack master" or, elite edge rushers, don't really hit free agency.

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In addition, Lawson was ranked 13th amongst starting edge defenders by Pro Football Focus (76.3), and ninth in pass-rushing grade (84.9). 

 

According to ESPN’s Created Sacks metric, Lawson was the first defender to win his block on 10.5 of Cincinnati’s 17 sacks last season. This means he helped create an additional five sacks on top of his own 5.5.

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1 hour ago, MindOverMatter said:

I think this is a harsh take.

Lawson got 8.5 sacks as a rookie, got hurt his 2nd year and had lower sack totals but high pressure rates his 3rd and 4th year. He's only 25 so i don't see why there wouldn't be a chance for him to get 8.5 or even 10 sacks. Maybe not 12 sacks but he should be an impact player. A poor mans Shaq Barrett.

Do you find it interesting that almost no one here took that view with Leo?  With him, he had no chance, he was a bust, he sucked, he had to be cut and cut asap.  And yet, he's better than Lawson.

We'll see. It'll be great if he is an impact player, and Saleh is by all accounts a good D-Co, so we'll see.  As with Davis at WR, all I am saying is we sure as hell better not think Edge and WR have been addressed.  They most assuredly have not.

 

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On 3/16/2021 at 2:07 PM, Warfish said:

Given that the average NFL career is what, 3 seasons?  Yes, he almost assuredly has reached his ceiling.

If you're banking on 12 sacks next year from a guy who averages 5 a season, I think you might be overly optimistic.

Lawson is an "almost there, doh, missed him!" guy.  He gets close, but rarely makes the sack or TFL.

He's better than what what we had, sure, but his resume and production speak for themselves.

 

your guy leonard williams averaged 3.5 sacks/year over the first 5 years of his career (4.25 over the first 4 years if we leave out his 2019 season where he got 0.5 in a season split between the jets and giants).  broke out for 11.5 in his 6th season.

you seem to be a very knowledgeable poster, but i'm gonna go with JD, saleh and his staff on this one and think he can up his production, especially when lined up next to Q.

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21 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

 

your guy leonard williams averaged 3.5 sacks/year over the first 5 years of his career (4.25 over the first 4 years if we leave out his 2019 season where he got 0.5 in a season split between the jets and giants).  broke out for 11.5 in his 6th season.

you seem to be a very knowledgeable poster, but i'm gonna go with JD, saleh and his staff on this one and think he can up his production, especially when lined up next to Q.

Not "my guy", like many here I wanted to dump him rather that resign at great cost, given his low production to that point.

I would never claim to know more than the Pros, but I'm perfectly happy to question them, we ALWAYS should question a franchise when their results are materially below average in a league literally designed to make everyone average.  NFL means parity.

I appreciate the view that he has potential, his pressure #'s mean he could get more sacks, I do not agree with him being called elite now, today.  He's an improvement (over the borderline nothing we had), but it's TDB how much of an improvement.  The effect on QW will be interesting to watch, as at the very least opposing O-line will finally have to at least consider more than one guy on the Dline.

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2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Not "my guy", like many here I wanted to dump him rather that resign at great cost, given his low production to that point.

I would never claim to know more than the Pros, but I'm perfectly happy to question them, we ALWAYS should question a franchise when their results are materially below average in a league literally designed to make everyone average.  NFL means parity.

I appreciate the view that he has potential, his pressure #'s mean he could get more sacks, I do not agree with him being called elite now, today.  He's an improvement (over the borderline nothing we had), but it's TDB how much of an improvement.  The effect on QW will be interesting to watch, as at the very least opposing O-line will finally have to at least consider more than one guy on the Dline.

 

apologies as i may have mixed you up with another poster who has been harping on how it was dumb for the jets to let go of leo now that he put up double digit sacks, etc...  

i think it would be premature to call lawson an "elite pass rusher", but i think he has shown the skills in this league to flourish in the right scheme and with the right coaches.  i also think it is premature to think that a player can't improve after 3 or 4 years in the league, especially when their circumstances change (i.e. moving to a new team/system/coaching staff).  lawson has a lot of potential.  he's definitely being paid for this potential versus past production.  i hope the jets can add more to the line (hyder from SF seems like he would be a good fit) to further enhance the pass rush.  and of course, you need better play from the secondary.

nothing wrong with questioning the pros.  in this case, i think the jets made an excellent investment in lawson.  time will tell of course.

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