Corey Davis Signed expecting Darnold to be QB1

[C Mart]

41 minutes ago, football guy said:

I did kind of answer but reading it now it came off differently than I intended. I really don’t know what they’d do if they didn’t receive a fair offer for either. FMV is a tricky term because it’s really not what you want; you want and ask for more, but “settle” in your FMV range. If a team overestimated what the fair market is, they’ll readjust and reevaluate. 

What I meant was if their evaluations of Wilson and Darnold are close they’ll favor moving forward with Darnold IF they’re getting FMV (or close to it) for #2, but if they’re not getting FMV for either asset then I think they would ultimately trade Darnold. Why? It’s easier for the Jets to trade Darnold for less than what they deem as fair because there will be more suitors willing to give something close to what they want for him vs. what they want for #2, and you can get creative with future conditional picks if teams aren’t ponying up enough this year (see Colts-Wentz).

What are you going to take: a 2021 3rd and 2022 conditional 3rd for Darnold, or 1st, 2nd, 2022 2nd, and 2023 2nd for #2? Neither would be what the Jets deem to be fair, but what’s “more” fair? If they feel they’re both really far off, I guess there exists the possibility they would hold Darnold and take Wilson

Well said!

[JetsRay]

10 hours ago, football guy said:

Statistics only tell part of the story. Need to really dig deep into the tape, identify the errors, ask why they happened. Need to ask why the mechanics got worse, why the play regressed. The general consensus within the organization is that the offense Gase implemented was counterproductive to Darnold's development in the first place, let alone any young QB, and that the primary reason the entire team regressed - especially Darnold - is because the coaching staff was not able to adjust and adapt to the pandemic restrictions. Coaches and execs believe he has the natural ability to see the field very well, that he is capable of handling and escaping pressure, that he can go through progressions, and that he can make every throw. They agree his mechanics are a mess, but attribute that to lack of hard coaching. Agents have said that the former staff was reluctant to work with his private QB coach; they wouldn't consider his suggestions and pretty much ignored him and the curriculum he had recommended. 

Sam's the first QB ever to be the youngest day 1 starting QB in NFL history that spent his first 3 seasons on one of the league's worst teams, with one of the league's worst coaches, and through an offseason stricken by a pandemic, all the while entering year 4 as a 24 year old. There is no comparison to Darnold whether you consider the last 20 QBs or 200, so it's pointless to point to past examples as precedent. The Jets staff has dug deep, knows what he does well, knows what he needs to work on, knows how they can utilize him, and feels they can win with him. Joe Douglas is a big fan. Question ultimately comes down to their grade on Wilson, their grade on Darnold, how much do they want for #2, how much do they want for Darnold, and who makes offers

This is a GREAT post, and so FEW comprehend this when discussing Darnold, or the state of his career and what Gase has done to damage his career to this point.  The pundits don't talk about it, the talking heads are simply unqualified to discuss it at the level that is described in this very post!

It is important that everyone grasp this when discussing whether the team should move on WITH Darnold, as opposed to moving on WITHOUT him and with a new recruit, i.e. Zach Wilson.  Wilson would only present a NEW set of challenges in development of an NFL franchise QB, Wilson may *not* be able to make that jump.  And it is very debatable whether who can when comparing Darnold to any QB in the 2021 draft class!

My point, Darnold has proven plenty to warrant still that opportunity with a now upgraded and qualified Jets coaching staff!

[Icer]

2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Sounds familiar in terms of the never ending list of excuses why the guy who's performance is worst in the league is actually very good.

The excuses for Sam Darnold sucking since the Rose Bowl never end. I kind of want to see what baloney we will come up with next year

[slimjasi]

3 minutes ago, Icer said:

The excuses for Sam Darnold sucking since the Rose Bowl never end. I kind of want to see what baloney we will come up with next year

One obvious one I expect to hear by October 1st:

"Guys, this is Sam's 3rd offense in 4 years !!!!!!! And his 1st year in a brand new offense!!!! I think we need to see how Sam does over the next 6 seasons or so before we can say anything definitive. We should be able to judge him by age 30, give or take. Also, Gase waterboarded Sam - that takes years to recover from." 

[Icer]

5 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

One obvious one I expect to hear by October 1st:

"Guys, this is Sam's 3rd offense in 4 years !!!!!!! And his 1st year in a brand new offense!!!! I think we need to see how Sam does over the next 6 seasons or so before we can say anything definitive. We should be able to judge him by age 30, give or take. Also, Gase waterboarded Sam - that takes years to recover from." 

"<Insert QB Here> wouldn't do any better behind this OL throwing to Davis & Mims!"

[ZachEY]

2 hours ago, genot said:

Why is it an excuse. I knew you would come back with that. Look at what he did as a sophomore. Why did he perform at such a higher level. Was it luck, or the talent around him.

 

Because the ONLY time Sam Darnold with any consistency was when he was playing with NFL talent vs. guys who are out there working 9-5s with the rest of us.

[genot]

2 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Because the ONLY time Sam Darnold with any consistency was when he was playing with NFL talent vs. guys who are out there working 9-5s with the rest of us.

He played a tougher schedule than Zach 

[K_O_Brien]

3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

One obvious one I expect to hear by October 1st:

"Guys, this is Sam's 3rd offense in 4 years !!!!!!! And his 1st year in a brand new offense!!!! I think we need to see how Sam does over the next 6 seasons or so before we can say anything definitive. We should be able to judge him by age 30, give or take. Also, Gase waterboarded Sam - that takes years to recover from." 

Poor Sam indeed. Three different head head coaches, three different systems, two GMs. How could anyone be expected to survive in such upheaval. 

Funnily enough, there is only one common denominator in all of the Jets offensive woes from 2018 until now. Wonder who that is? 

 

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, genot said:

He played a tougher schedule than Zach 

So what?

Zach Wilson potentially being overrated, or having a high bust potential doesn't make Sam Darnold not the worst.

[ZachEY]

2 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

Poor Sam indeed. Three different head head coaches, three different systems, two GMs. How could anyone be expected to survive in such upheaval. 

Funnily enough, there is only one common denominator in all of the Jets offensive woes from 2018 until now. Wonder who that is? 

 

THE COACHSLAYER!!!!

[slimjasi]

Just now, TeddEY said:

So what?

Zach Wilson potentially being overrated, or having a high bust potential doesn't make Sam Darnold not the worst.

Actually, I've read that other QBs busting means that Sam is secretly good. 

[Mike135]

2 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

So what?

Zach Wilson potentially being overrated, or having a high bust potential doesn't make Sam Darnold not the worst.

Name a team that has had a worse oline/WR/TE combo the last 3 years.

[adobolo2]

 

[slimjasi]

Just now, Mike135 said:

Name a team that has had a worse oline/WR/TE combo the last 3 years.

Can't someone also ask - name a team that had a worse QB over the last 3 years? 

Why does all of the weight fall on everyone else besides the #3 overall pick? 

[Mike135]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

Can't someone also ask - name a team that had a worse QB over the last 3 years? 

Why does all of the weight fall on everyone else besides the #3 overall pick? 

So many reasons why.

See mahomes with a bad online but GREAT WRs n TE.

Look at snaps from Center being as unpredictable as Watson's "massage" climax.

WRs being signed off the street to actually start the next week.

I see it as being glaringly obvious. 

[K_O_Brien]

Saleh sucks!!! 

 

11 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

THE COACHSLAYER!!!!

October 2021 "Saleh sucks!!! Sam never had a chance. Let's give Sam one more chance with another head coach, his fourth in five years and see what he has".  

 

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, Mike135 said:

Name a team that has had a worse oline/WR/TE combo the last 3 years.

If I did, you'd dismiss them as wrong anyway, and there's no actual way to quantify this trifecta.  But, as per PFF, The LA Chargers had the worst offensive line in football last year.  And yet, Justin Herbert looked like a franchise QB in his rookie year.

PFF gave Herbert an 80 grade with the leagues worst offensive line and likely on one WR you could name, while Sam Darnold earned a 58 grade.

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

So many reasons why.

See mahomes with a bad online but GREAT WRs n TE.

Look at snaps from Center being as unpredictable as Watson's "massage" climax.

WRs being signed off the street to actually start the next week.

I see it as being glaringly obvious. 

Mahomes threw for more yards in the Super Bowl than Sam did all year. LOL

You're seeing what you want to see, IMO. 

 

 

 

[ZachEY]

4 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

So many reasons why.

See mahomes with a bad online but GREAT WRs n TE.

Look at snaps from Center being as unpredictable as Watson's "massage" climax.

WRs being signed off the street to actually start the next week.

I see it as being glaringly obvious. 

Mahommes in the Super Bowl was actually under the kind of pressure people here pretend Sam Darnold is under, routinely.

And yet, Mahommes still flashed his amazing skillset many times over the game.

The comparison to Darnold is absurd.  If anything, the Super Bowl made Mahomes even more impressive, even in a loss.

[genot]

2 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

If I did, you'd dismiss them as wrong anyway, and there's no actual way to quantify this trifecta.  But, as per PFF, The LA Chargers had the worst offensive line in football last year.  And yet, Justin Herbert looked like a franchise QB in his rookie year.

PFF gave Herbert an 80 grade with the leagues worst offensive line and likely on one WR you could name, while Sam Darnold earned a 58 grade.

Hunter henry. Mike Williams. Keenan Allen. Not a bad group.

[K_O_Brien]

2 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

If I did, you'd dismiss them as wrong anyway, and there's no actual way to quantify this trifecta.  But, as per PFF, The LA Chargers had the worst offensive line in football last year.  And yet, Justin Herbert looked like a franchise QB in his rookie year.

PFF gave Herbert an 80 grade with the leagues worst offensive line and likely on one WR you could name, while Sam Darnold earned a 58 grade.

Also, with a clean pocket, Darnold is 30th in the League in completion % and 32nd in QB rating. 

[Mike135]

5 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

If I did, you'd dismiss them as wrong anyway, and there's no actual way to quantify this trifecta.  But, as per PFF, The LA Chargers had the worst offensive line in football last year.  And yet, Justin Herbert looked like a franchise QB in his rookie year.

PFF gave Herbert an 80 grade with the leagues worst offensive line and likely on one WR you could name, while Sam Darnold earned a 58 grade.

No team has had a worse group of oline n receivers than the Jets the last 3 years.  And it's not even close.

If you really want to go to stats on particular groups, yes the Jets had PFF's 29th ranked oline last year (yippee!).  But the worst in pass protection.  And that's with Becton!  Who obviously wasn't there in 2019 when the Jets had an oline that was insanely bad. 

To say 2019's oline was just the worst would be a crazy understatement.  It was borderline criminal having Sam play behind that line.

[slimjasi]

5 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Mahommes in the Super Bowl was actually under the kind of pressure people here pretend Sam Darnold is under, routinely.

And yet, Mahommes still flashed his amazing skillset many times over the game.

The comparison to Darnold is absurd.  If anything, the Super Bowl made Mahomes even more impressive, even in a loss.

Mahomes made two of the best throws I've ever seen in that game. 

And, what, he had two picks?  Sam did that 4 times this year alone. 

Even cherry-picking the worst game Mahomes ever had doesn't make Sam look good. 

[Icer]

40 minutes ago, adobolo2 said:

 

Spoken like someone who hasn't watched a single Jets game in 3 years

[Augustiniak]

7 minutes ago, Icer said:

Spoken like someone who hasn't watched a single Jets game in 3 years

Spoken like a draft pundit who refuses to admit he was so wrong about a top qb prospect.

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, Mike135 said:

No team has had a worse group of oline n receivers than the Jets the last 3 years.  And it's not even close.

If you really want to go to stats on particular groups, yes the Jets had PFF's 29th ranked oline last year (yippee!).  But the worst in pass protection.  And that's with Becton!  Who obviously wasn't there in 2019 when the Jets had an oline that was insanely bad. 

To say 2019's oline was just the worst would be a crazy understatement.  It was borderline criminal having Sam play behind that line.

So, as per PFF, the Jets offensive line was 28th.  Actually better ranked than 2020.

Now, none of this is to say that the line wasn't bad.  It was, and it is.

It's simply to say the line has never been so historically bad that no QB could ever succeed with it.  That it was insurmountable for a QB, and could only result in the worst QB in the NFL is a myth.

And, it's also worth noting that offensive lines look much better when QBs have quick releases, can diagnose plays quickly, and can make a defense pay for bringing pressure - all areas where Darnold struggles.

[Mike135]

15 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

So, as per PFF, the Jets offensive line was 28th.  Actually better ranked than 2020.

Now, none of this is to say that the line wasn't bad.  It was, and it is.

It's simply to say the line has never been so historically bad that no QB could ever succeed with it.  That it was insurmountable for a QB, and could only result in the worst QB in the NFL is a myth.

And, it's also worth noting that offensive lines look much better when QBs have quick releases, can diagnose plays quickly, and can make a defense pay for bringing pressure - all areas where Darnold struggles.

I believe it's glaringly obvious Sam has had the worst offense around him these last 3 years.  And it's not close.

I respect your opinion in disagreeing.  We'll find out shortly how JD feels.

[Charlie Brown]

14 hours ago, football guy said:

Coaches and execs believe he has the natural ability to see the field very well, that he is capable of handling and escaping pressure, that he can go through progressions, and that he can make every throw. They agree his mechanics are a mess, but attribute that to lack of hard coaching. Agents have said that the former staff was reluctant to work with his private QB coach; they wouldn't consider his suggestions and pretty much ignored him and the curriculum he had recommended. 

Sam's the first QB ever to be the youngest day 1 starting QB in NFL history that spent his first 3 seasons on one of the league's worst teams, with one of the league's worst coaches, and through an offseason stricken by a pandemic, all the while entering year 4 as a 24 year old. There is no comparison to Darnold whether you consider the last 20 QBs or 200, so it's pointless to point to past examples as precedent. The Jets staff has dug deep, knows what he does well, knows what he needs to work on, knows how they can utilize him, and feels they can win with him. Joe Douglas is a big fan. Question ultimately comes down to their grade on Wilson, their grade on Darnold, how much do they want for #2, how much do they want for Darnold, and who makes offers

The part bolded above drives me crazy with the Jets!

CRAZY!!!!

They draft a young QB who everyone on the planet says has skills but who is deficient in key areas and NEEDS coaching!

So what do they do?

They hire a HC whose system doesn't fit the QB; and make sure that they don't hire or have a specific QB coach to work with the player or even listen to a coach who has other QBs playing at a probowl level!

You can't make it up!!!

[Charlie Brown]

13 hours ago, QB1 said:

Sorry I don’t buy this for one second and it feels very revisionist on the part of the Jets if true... If Douglas really thought that the coaching was so bad that it was destroying Darnold then why wasn’t Gase fired after year 1 or after week 4 last year.

JD didn't hire Gase and had NO power to fire him......

[QB1]

1 minute ago, Charlie Brown said:

JD didn't hire Gase and had NO power to fire him......

.... Mac didn't report to Gase either but he did fire him 

[Biggs]

3 hours ago, JetsRay said:

This is a GREAT post, and so FEW comprehend this when discussing Darnold, or the state of his career and what Gase has done to damage his career to this point.  The pundits don't talk about it, the talking heads are simply unqualified to discuss it at the level that is described in this very post!

It is important that everyone grasp this when discussing whether the team should move on WITH Darnold, as opposed to moving on WITHOUT him and with a new recruit, i.e. Zach Wilson.  Wilson would only present a NEW set of challenges in development of an NFL franchise QB, Wilson may *not* be able to make that jump.  And it is very debatable whether who can when comparing Darnold to any QB in the 2021 draft class!

My point, Darnold has proven plenty to warrant still that opportunity with a now upgraded and qualified Jets coaching staff!

Darnold will be going into another system with the same bad mechanics he had coming into the NFL.  Darnold hasn't proven he can make the jump.  If you want to be kind to Darnold he should be looked at a rookie with no NFL experience who is on a 1 year deal.  He's a tremendous prospect with bad throwing mechanics who has to learn an NFL system day 1.  

The problem is we have the 2 pick and can tie up a prospect like Darnold for 5 years with good mechanics instead of bad mechanics.  We can also get a pick for Darnold if we trade him now.  Although what we can get is very debatable.  

There is a new set of problems with Darnold and with a new rookie.  How do you develop a rookie vs how do you develop a veteran who's mechanics suck and has to learn a new O who sucked in his old O.  

[JustInFudge]

Since Sam Darnold has been drafted by the NY Jets.  The NY Jets are 0-10 when he doesnt start.  4 different QB's, 2 different HC's, different cast of players at WR, RB, OL yet, the same outcome.  

The trade down is coming Jets fans, brace yourself. 

 

 

[flgreen]

Why Corey Davis' comments on Sam Darnold as Jets starting quarterback don't mean much

WRITTEN BYJOE RIVERA

@JoeRiveraSN

AMERICAN FOOTBALL

Stick with Sam? Not quite.

New Jets wideout Corey Davis had his introductory Zoom conference on Tuesday, during which he made waves by saying that he believes the Jets may be turning to Sam Darnold once again as starting quarterback come the 2021 season.

There's a catch, though: This is the NFL, where semantics matter probably more than they do while standing around the water cooler. There's no issue with Davis believing that Darnold is the Jets starting quarterback right now, on March 24, 2021. That's a fact. 

While the New York media is running with Davis saying he believes that Darnold will be the Jets starting quarterback come September (they have to sell newspapers, after all), there's a critical line from Davis' Zoom call that some seem to be belligerently, willfully, invitingly ignoring:

MORE: Jets get their passer of the future in latest SN mock draft

“Whichever direction they decide to go, it’s on me to make sure that I’m ready,’’ Davis said. “I’m ready to catch passes from whomever.’’

Seems like an important thing to mention.

That last bit is especially important, considering that the Jets have been very careful to tiptoe around the Darnold question this offseason, from GM Joe Douglas to new head coach Robert Saleh to the MetLife Stadium beer vendors. Oh, and Davis also mentioned that Darnold hadn't reached out to him yet, which is also very telling. 

The Jets have reportedly received calls on Darnold this offseason and were also supposedly in the mix for Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson before the sexual assault allegations surfaced, meaning the team isn't sold on Darnold at minimum.

There are certain irrefutable facts surrounding the Darnold situation that are tabloid-quote proof and situationally agnostic:

New York is currently sitting with the No. 2 overall pick in the 2021 NFL Draft, where at least one of Zach Wilson or Justin Fields await;

Darnold was inherited by Douglas — Douglas was hired in 2019, while Darnold was drafted the year before;

The fourth-year passer has been a replacement-level starter who has shown moments of potential, but not much else.

Darnold has thrown 45 touchdowns to 39 interceptions in his short, three-year career, including a dreadful nine-touchdown, 11-interception season in 2020 that cast major doubt on whether the team is going to move forward with him at quarterback — especially so when Darnold's fifth-year option is looming.

While Davis likely signed with the Jets based on the money (he's getting $30 million guaranteed) and the influence of Saleh more than anything else, the quarterback question will be answered soon enough.

With the NFL Draft just over a month away, expect a resolution one way or another.

[Dcat]

13 hours ago, QB1 said:

The jets are an organization. If JD didn’t have the balls to tell CJ that Adam Gase was destroying our prized franchise QB then he should be fired tomorrow. The fact is that they didn’t think Gase was ruining Darnold until we went 2-14, and even then they only reluctantly fired Gase. 

Fact?  Nonsense. You have no knowledge of what they thought, whether they agreed or not and what the plan was moving forward.  You have mere speculation, not fact.  The only fact here is what the organizational structure was at the time and how strict the Jets had adhered to that structure until the day Saleh was hired.  

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, Charlie Brown said:

JD didn't hire Gase and had NO power to fire him......

Don't bother engaging.  I got sucked in.  It's just Nico being Nico, to put it politely and so I don't get banned.