Report: Zach Wilson has struggled with accuracy in Jets OTAs

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Are you one of them?

Search yourself for the answer.  When Zach does poorly, are you excited to come on to JN to gloat?

I'd rather the Jets be good than be right.  But being right is an acceptable consolation prize during the times when there is nothing to be happy about regarding the Jets.  So it is indeed pretty funny watching the meltdowns and lengthy lists of excuses when our bad QB's perform bad and people try to spin them as still being good.  Free entertainment for the last 12 years.  

In short:  I'll be here whether the team or QBs perform well or poorly.  Only the talking points change.  I root for and follow the uniform, and enjoy coming here to shoot the sh*t with fellow sufferers. 

Just because I don't worship the ground of every Jets player who comes through doesn't mean I'm any less of a fan.  The players change all the time.  We're the ones stuck with this franchise.  I'll allow myself to be entertained by them whether they win or lose.  

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

Honestly I don’t even think there is enough commonality to “debate” someone with your worldview. It would be like debating the federal minimum wage with alien invaders.

My Worldview?  

If thats the way you feel please just put me on ignore.

 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

My Worldview?  

If thats the way you feel please just put me on ignore.

 

Debate no. Read and laugh, oh yes.

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Debate no. Read and laugh, oh yes.

You go ahead and continue to live in your self righteous world where no opinion is valid unless its your own.

I find rather sad.  But I say good for you.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

You go ahead and continue to live in your self righteous world where no opinion is valid unless its your own.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

You go ahead and continue to live in your self righteous world where no opinion is valid unless its your own.

I find rather sad.  But I say good for you.

Once I went into 7-11 to get a coke. On the way out, this wino was ranting to me about how the sky is actually green. I maneuvered around him and got the hell outta there.

He also believes he is undefeated in debates.

[FidelioJet]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'd rather the Jets be good than be right.  But being right is an acceptable consolation prize during the times when there is nothing to be happy about regarding the Jets.  So it is indeed pretty funny watching the meltdowns and lengthy lists of excuses when our bad QB's perform bad and people try to spin them as still being good.  Free entertainment for the last 12 years.  

In short:  I'll be here whether the team or QBs perform well or poorly.  Only the talking points change.  I root for and follow the uniform, and enjoy coming here to shoot the sh*t with fellow sufferers. 

Just because I don't worship the ground of every Jets player who comes through doesn't mean I'm any less of a fan.  The players change all the time.  We're the ones stuck with this franchise.  I'll allow myself to be entertained by them whether they win or lose.  

I get it.  I do.  

Some fans get caught in protection mode (the term "fan" come from "Fanatic") I know I'm certainly guilty of it on occasion.   And some (unless I misunderstood what you're saying - it seems like yourself) enjoy gloating to others about the team's failures because of a previous prediction.

I do think most try and be rational - I know I do try....

It all should just be fun though.

 

[Hal N of Provo]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Not really.  He’s the only one of us on a verge of flipping opinions.   
 

For the record, I’m right and you and @jgb are wrong even if I lose @FidelioJet along the way lol.   

[jgb]

Just now, Hal N of Provo said:

Not really.  He’s the only one of us on a verge of flipping opinions.   
 

For the record, I’m right and you and @jgb are wrong even if I lose @FidelioJet along the way lol.   

I haven’t been here 6 months. You’ll have to catch me up. What are you right about and I am wrong about?

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Not really.  He’s the only one of us on a verge of flipping opinions.   

Meh, maybe so, but the way he chided Wilson critics over the prior 14 months or so doesn't make him any less of a hypocrite for saying what he just said.

[FidelioJet]

Just now, Hal N of Provo said:

Not really.  He’s the only one of us on a verge of flipping opinions.   
 

For the record, I’m right and you and @jgb are wrong even if I lose @FidelioJet along the way lol.   

Thank you.

I had a ton of faith for this upcoming season - based on the way he ended the season - but am truly concerned with the way he's seemingly reverted back to the same basic problems he had early in the year.  

I have far from have given up on him - but, IMO, there is real reason for concern.  

[Hal N of Provo]

Just now, jgb said:

I haven’t been here 6 months. You’ll have to catch me up. What are you right about and I am wrong about?

Zach.  It’s ok.  You didn’t miss anything.  We’ve just been going in circles about the same stuff so you can pick right back up where we were 6 months ago.  

[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Meh, maybe so, but the way he chided Wilson critics over the prior 14 months or so doesn't make him any less of a hypocrite for saying what he just said.

Well, that post you're referencing was different - as I wouldn't respond to you with something like that.

I was being ridiculed and responded in kind (I shouldn't have) I already regret it.  

We have disagreed and I have vigorously called out what I believed to be BS on some of the nonsense attacks on Wilson (as many were just that) 

But I have also, mostly consistently, accepted his failures - as just that. I have readily acknowledged he was bad and agreed with many of his flaws.   Feel free to go back and look.

[jgb]

7 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Zach.  It’s ok.  You didn’t miss anything.  We’ve just been going in circles about the same stuff so you can pick right back up where we were 6 months ago.  

Wrong. Right. These are not the relevant terms to apply.

My position is that given Zach’s first year, it is unlikely (highly so) that he develops into a FQB. The chance that he does is not zero. I acknowledge this. But if I am a team builder, I sure would not be betting on it.

That’s it. That’s my position.

It isn’t a crusade for me. It is an emotionless review of league history.

 

 

[Hal N of Provo]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Wrong. Right. These are not the relevant terms to apply.

My position is that given Zach’s first year, it is unlikely (highly so) that he develops into a FQB. The chance that he does is not zero. I acknowledge this. But if I am a team builder, I sure would not be betting on it.

That’s it. That’s my position.

It isn’t a crusade for me. It is an emotionless review of league history.

 

 

It’s the eyeball test that matters and Zach will most likely be a FQB based on emotionless review of league history.  
 

See, same circle.  We need some new content.  Luckily it’s coming soon-ish.  

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Hal N of Provo said:

It’s the eyeball test that matters and Zach will most likely be a FQB based on emotionless review of league history.  

[jgb]

9 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

It’s the eyeball test that matters and Zach will most likely be a FQB based on emotionless review of league history.  
 

See, same circle.  We need some new content.  Luckily it’s coming soon-ish.  

Shockingly, we are both free to have an opinion. If you think your’s is more fact-based/more accurate/a better predictor of future events... do you.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Shockingly, we are both free to have an opinion. If you think your’s is more fact-based/more accurate/a better predictor of future events... do you.

C'mon man.  What Chris Simms thinks means wayyyyyy more than decades of data.  

[Hal N of Provo]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Shockingly, we are both free to have an opinion. If you think your’s is more fact-based/more accurate/a better predictor of future events... do you.

Ok.  Since you were gracious I too will allow you to have an opinion.  

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

C'mon man.  What Chris Simms thinks means wayyyyyy more than decades of data.  

He believes, so let him. Lots of people play the Powerball convinced they will win, also.

8 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Ok.  Since you were gracious I too will allow you to have an opinion.  

The problem has never been having an opinion that is anti FQB du jour… it has been having one without being called a troll, fake fan, hater, miserable SOJF, or sundry other ad homini.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

6 hours ago, jgb said:

He believes, so let him. Lots of people play the Powerball convinced they will win, also.

The problem has never been having an opinion that is anti FQB du jour… it has been having one without being called a troll, fake fan, hater, miserable SOJF, or sundry other ad homini.

I think you were called a troll because of the perceived glee you took in telling us our quarterback sucked.  Instead of letting the wounds heal after another ass kicking you decided to constantly tell everyone how right you are and how wrong we were.  I think just about everyone here knows each other's options by now.  No need to constantly tell us you were right. 

My only issue with it was that it isn't hard to predict a Jets quarterback will bust.  If you say it every time you will be right 99.9% of the time.  

Some of us are just fans that hope the team can start winning.  Most of us hope Zach will become great even though deep down they're guarded because the odds are stacked against us.  Most of us are just fans that need to believe he'll be the one otherwise what's the point in any of this?

Let us believe until there no reason not to.  Then let us believe in the next one. 

We come here for news and camaraderie, in the hope that the team finally picked the right guy even if it wasn't the one we wanted before the draft.

 

Btw, I prefer this signature to your previous one.  

[Jimmy 2 Times]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

I think you were called a troll because of the perceived glee you took in telling us our quarterback sucked.  Instead of letting the wounds heal after another ass kicking you decided to constantly tell everyone how right you are and how wrong we were.  I think just about everyone here knows each other's options by now.  No need to constantly tell us you were right. 

My only issue with it was that it isn't hard to predict a Jets quarterback will bust.  If you say it every time you will be right 99.9% of the time.  

Some of us are just fans that hope the team can start winning.  Most of us hope Zach will become great even though deep down they're guarded because the odds are stacked against us.  Most of us are just fans that need to believe he'll be the one otherwise what's the point in any of this?

Let us believe until there no reason not to.  Then let us believe in the next one. 

We come here for news and camaraderie, in the hope that the team finally picked the right guy even if it wasn't the one we wanted before the draft.

 

Btw, I prefer this signature to your previous one.  

Re-reading this I sound like a cry baby.

I do come here for the news and the whole 'misery loves company' bit.  

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Let us believe until there no reason not to.  Then let us believe in the next one. 

Let others not believe until there is reason to. If a poster’s opinions cause so much consternation, I’d suggest an ignore, although I try to avoid it myself, it’s the right call if it’s that detrimental to your enjoyment of sports.

Not going to comment on the rest.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

Just now, jgb said:

Let others not believe until there is reason to. If a posters opinions cause so much consternation, I’d suggest an ignore, although I try to avoid it myself, it’s the right call if it’s that detrimental to your enjoyment of sports.

Funny thing, I just un-ignored you today when I saw I had a notification from you earlier.  

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Re-reading this I sound like a cry baby.

I do come here for the news and the whole 'misery loves company' bit.  

Nah, you don’t sound like a crybaby.

We all vent in our way. I blast the team. Others blast those who blast the team, I guess.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Funny thing, I just un-ignored you today when I saw I had a notification from you earlier.  

I shall endeavor to demonstrate the folly of that decision ?

[Dwight Englewood]

7 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

C'mon man.  What Chris Simms thinks means wayyyyyy more than decades of data.  

Did you that know in 2000 Chris Simms had Tom Brady as his top ranked qb in the draft ahead of Chad Pennington, Joe Hamilton and Gio Carmazzi?

[JTJet]

7 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'll be here whether the team or QBs perform well or poorly

Except in the game threads when we are winning...

I got my eye on you bud lol.

Love ya regardless. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, JTJet said:

Except in the game threads when we are winning...

I got my eye on you bud lol.

Love ya regardless. 

Game threads are designed for complaining.  

[Fantasy Island]

6 hours ago, Dwight Englewood said:

Did you that know in 2000 Chris Simms had Tom Brady as his top ranked qb in the draft ahead of Chad Pennington, Joe Hamilton and Gio Carmazzi?

Chris Simms : bad qb, bad talking head, good at being born on 3rd base.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

7 hours ago, Dwight Englewood said:

Did you that know in 2000 Chris Simms had Tom Brady as his top ranked qb in the draft ahead of Chad Pennington, Joe Hamilton and Gio Carmazzi?

Simms has been insanely accurate picking hits and misses from I think the last 5 years of QBs drafted.

When Wilson looked at his worst last year pre injury, head swimming, throwing dump offs into the dirt at 90 mph, when he had Never done anything like on his tape, Simms didn’t care, he said “all correctable” and that he had thrown 20 passes that he identified as top quality NFL throws and he’ll put it all together in his 2nd year.

All remains to be seen, but it’s an interesting take.

[SoFlaJets]

18 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Don't agree.

You might not be one of them but there are plenty of people on this board that would rather see Zach suck than the Jets be good.  They are far too invested in his failure.  It's clear and obvious to anyone paying attending.

They get joy out of his failures.  Being right is more important.  

Those people know who they are. Ask yourself - To know if you're one of them ask yourself, when you watch the games and Zach does well are you happy or pissed?   They'll never admit it, but they know who they are...

 

I remember back in 2002 The Jets started out the season with Vinny Testeverde at starting QB and they opened with a win over the Bills. Then proceeded to lose the next 4 games and went into the bye week 1-4. There was a big outcry from the fans to bench Vinny and give our young franchise QB Chad Pennington a chance. Finally after 2 weeks of us carping in the press, online, and some of us even went so far as to write letters to the front office (guilty as charged). None of us "hated" VT, but we loved the Jets first. I don't know if I've ever read here of any of the Jet Nation old school crew ever saying that they hated a player, wait, strike that Savage69 and Curtis Martin being the exception, may he Rest In Peace. That 2002 season would be the closest to our personal feelings for a QB affecting our fandom. BTW, we were right as Chad went 8-4  and made the playoffs before Oakland and Jon Abraham' gutlessness beat us in the AFCCG

[slats]

2 hours ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Simms has been insanely accurate picking hits and misses from I think the last 5 years of QBs drafted.

When Wilson looked at his worst last year pre injury, head swimming, throwing dump offs into the dirt at 90 mph, when he had Never done anything like on his tape, Simms didn’t care, he said “all correctable” and that he had thrown 20 passes that he identified as top quality NFL throws and he’ll put it all together in his 2nd year.

All remains to be seen, but it’s an interesting take.

All I want is for Simms to be right, but he could just as easily be doubling down on his original assessment - something we see here all the time. I can see some truth in it, though, as Zach’s problems appeared to be roughly 100% mental. The first month of the season, it looked as if his brain had the hiccoughs. He settled down in the second half, but -imo- moved the pendulum a little too far to the play it safe side of the position. He needs to balance the game management aspects with his abilities to play off script. I want some of that hero ball. 
 
I like the cocoon they’ve built around Zach this offseason. He’s being given every chance to succeed, and that’s a lot more than the last few QBs who came thru here could say. 

[FidelioJet]

48 minutes ago, SoFlaJets said:

I remember back in 2002 The Jets started out the season with Vinny Testeverde at starting QB and they opened with a win over the Bills. Then proceeded to lose the next 4 games and went into the bye week 1-4. There was a big outcry from the fans to bench Vinny and give our young franchise QB Chad Pennington a chance. Finally after 2 weeks of us carping in the press, online, and some of us even went so far as to write letters to the front office (guilty as charged). None of us "hated" VT, but we loved the Jets first. I don't know if I've ever read here of any of the Jet Nation old school crew ever saying that they hated a player, wait, strike that Savage69 and Curtis Martin being the exception, may he Rest In Peace. That 2002 season would be the closest to our personal feelings for a QB affecting our fandom. BTW, we were right as Chad went 8-4  and made the playoffs before Oakland and Jon Abraham' gutlessness beat us in the AFCCG

I remember those days.  Chad was mostly liked by the entire fan base though. Most were happy with him being drafted and had faith in his potential.  Surely plenty of Vinny fans too, but the Chad pick was mostly liked.

Now, I don't think anyone "hates" Zach Wilson - but there was a lot of animosity toward drafting him.  I just think some are too invested in his failure to be happy to see him succeed.  Not all or even most - but there are some.

For whatever reason Zach became a controversial pick around here - the most controversial 1st rounder I can remember.  I'm not exactly sure why, as he's not a particularly controversial guy.  But it happened and there are people here that can't or won't see anything positive from him.  

He wasn't good, I don't think anyone is saying he was.  But there was some positive signs, some reason for optimism (even if slight) and it's those people that refuse to see or accept that reality that I'm referencing here.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and they don't have to like Zach - not telling anyone how to feel - but at the same time I am pretty confident there are people here that would rather see Wilson fail than the Jets win.  I'm not saying it's you and pointing to any individual.   Again, if that's the way they feel - I'm not telling them not to - it's fine.  I just don't agree.

 

[section314]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

I remember those days.  Chad was mostly liked by the entire fan base though. Most were happy with him being drafted and had faith in his potential.  Surely plenty of Vinny fans too, but the Chad pick was mostly liked.

Now, I don't think anyone "hates" Zach Wilson - but there was a lot of animosity toward drafting him.  I just think some are too invested in his failure to be happy to see him succeed.  Not all or even most - but there are some.

For whatever reason Zach became a controversial pick around here - the most controversial 1st rounder I can remember.  I'm not exactly sure why, as he's not a particularly controversial guy.  But it happened and there are people here that can't or won't see anything positive from him.  

He wasn't good, I don't think anyone is saying he was.  But there was some positive signs, some reason for optimism (even if slight) and it's those people that refuse to see or accept that reality that I'm referencing here.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and they don't have to like Zach - not telling anyone how to feel - but at the same time I am pretty confident there are people here that would rather see Wilson fail than the Jets win.  I'm not saying it's you and pointing to any individual.   Again, if that's the way they feel - I'm not telling them not to - it's fine.  I just don't agree.

 

It's true, and it just completely baffles me. You would rather be right in your own reasons for disliking a guy or thinking he's not good than actually see him and the team do well. Sadly, it's a reflection of our society in the country for awhile now......we seem to get off on seeing people fail. It's very sad, and actually pretty creepy.