Jets Competition for Carr

[derp]

8 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Rodgers and Carr had basically the same year in 2022. Rodgers threw 12 to Carr's 14 Int. 26 TDs to Carr's 24. Difference is Rodgers is going to be 60 Million dollar hit whoever trades for him as opposed to the team that signs Carr, my guess that number is 25 to 30 million. Rodgers is 39 years old while Carr is 31. Carr allows this team to keep QW. Rodgers doesn't.

That is a one year sample. Again, Rodgers' peaks have been significantly higher. You're assuming Carr's number goes down. The idea that the Jets can afford QW with Carr but not Rodgers strikes me as largely to entirely made up.

[Claymation]

50 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

So, Rodgers threw less picks and more TDs, despite losing a top 3 WR to Carr and not having the same caliber TE1 or RB1? And to you, those are “basically the same”? 

Rodgers was also in the same system, where Carr was in a new system, also played 2 less games.

[#27TheDominator]

49 minutes ago, derp said:

That Rams team was loaded. They went all in and completely collapsed. Bengals team was and is also loaded. They're spending $20M on a top 5 QB and a top 5 WR. The 49ers are loaded, best defense in the league and they may have the best 5 skill position player grouping in the league.

If the Jets were in the category with any of those teams it'd be a different story. The Jets' defense is excellent and the offense is deeply flawed beyond just the quarterback. Needs at least three more offensive linemen and at least one more playmaker. 

There's note even a guarantee that team makes a playoff run. They still need to fit Carr, try to improve the roster despite needing to cut down on guys, hope he picks up a new scheme quickly and is proficient in it, hope he's not on the decline, hope he's not the same guy who led the league in picks before getting benched, etc.

Being a bunch of if's away from hoping for a magical run isn't my idea of what you want to do. And it's different if the financial situation and career trajectory are different but you're talking about a $40M AAV for a team that's already pushing money ahead to fit guys on a roster. It'd be heading for a poor man's version of the Rams - worse team and worse quarterback. 

I said it before, I'll root for it to go well if it happens. Just doesn't strike me as a good plan. 

I get it.  I am not in love with it either, but they need a QB.  I think he is probably a better option at cost/value than Jackson or Rodgers.  We will have to see who else is a available and what Jimmy G is going to cost..  I guess I also think the team is better than you do.  The D came together pretty well and I think the O will look light years better with actual QB play.  They averaged 25 ppg from week 2-7.  They kind of fell off a cliff when Hall and AVT got hurt, but I think Carr + moderate improvement at OC should easily do better than 19 ppg

[Claymation]

49 minutes ago, derp said:

That is a one year sample. Again, Rodgers' peaks have been significantly higher. You're assuming Carr's number goes down. The idea that the Jets can afford QW with Carr but not Rodgers strikes me as largely to entirely made up.

Do you think Rodgers will reach his peak anymore? He has a hit of 60 million.

Let's say Carr signs at 32 million, and QW signs for 23 million, if my math is correct that would be a total of 55 million and they don't have to give up the rumored 1st. 

[jgb]

2 hours ago, Copernicus said:

My repectfull disagreement would include the emence draft compensation. Carr plus the #13 (LT?), and most likely keeping the rest of our draft picks versus Lamar minus the #13 and mostly another (or more) 1st rounders. Im taking Carr and staying away from LaMarr because of how many games he has missed and the uncertantity of the current injured knee

I’d rather spend elite money on a good quarterback than spend good money on a garbage quarterback.

[derp]

22 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I get it.  I am not in love with it either, but they need a QB.  I think he is probably a better option at cost/value than Jackson or Rodgers.  We will have to see who else is a available and what Jimmy G is going to cost..  I guess I also think the team is better than you do.  The D came together pretty well and I think the O will look light years better with actual QB play.  They averaged 25 ppg from week 2-7.  They kind of fell off a cliff when Hall and AVT got hurt, but I think Carr + moderate improvement at OC should easily do better than 19 ppg

I think trade capital wise he’s better than the other two obviously. In terms of paying for what you get - higher ceiling, lower floor for those guys.

My beef with Carr is we know he’s not a $40M quarterback, we know he’s not close. He’s essentially a remarkably expensive bridge quarterback. He can be brought in as an alternative to someone really boring like Jacoby Brissett, but you’re paying a lot to maybe have an opportunity to have a chance to go on a run if everything breaks right.

He’s not the best quarterback, he’s not a cheap quarterback, he’s a purgatory quarterback. I’d rather they pick a lane. Compete or reset at the position and get back to building.

Regarding the team, I think Hall carried them that stretch. Not sure he’s going to be healthy next year. The OL needs to be rebuilt. They lack cap space and any expensive veteran makes that worse along with getting rid of some spare parts and/or pushing money forward to fit this team. Wouldn’t feel good about it with any veteran but the trade off I’d want to do that is a high ceiling and I just don’t see it with Carr.

[derp]

28 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Do you think Rodgers will reach his peak anymore? He has a hit of 60 million.

Let's say Carr signs at 32 million, and QW signs for 23 million, if my math is correct that would be a total of 55 million and they don't have to give up the rumored 1st. 

Rodgers has a history of playing at the level I think the Jets would need from their QB to be a serious contender, Carr doesn’t. To be honest I’d feel reluctant about either move, I just see an argument for Rodgers’ ceiling that I don’t see for Carr’s.

Williams is under contract next year already. If they want both they can certainly find ways to fit both.

[#27TheDominator]

9 minutes ago, derp said:

Rodgers has a history of playing at the level I think the Jets would need from their QB to be a serious contender, Carr doesn’t. To be honest I’d feel reluctant about either move, I just see an argument for Rodgers’ ceiling that I don’t see for Carr’s.

Williams is under contract next year already. If they want both they can certainly find ways to fit both.

A big part of my issue with Rodgers is just that I think he can be an a$$hole.  I don't want to encourage douche-yness on the team.  I think he has a much better chance of causing a complete implosion than a guy like Carr.  Carr is the kind of QB that I need the OC to look and say I can score with this guy.  If they can fine.  If they can't **** 'em.  

[JustInFudge]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

A big part of my issue with Rodgers is just that I think he can be an a$$hole.  I don't want to encourage douche-yness on the team.  I think he has a much better chance of causing a complete implosion than a guy like Carr.  Carr is the kind of QB that I need the OC to look and say I can score with this guy.  If they can fine.  If they can't **** 'em.  

As much as I think Rodgers is the homerun move, there is this factor for sure.  Kind of a risk.  But you'd hope the change of scenery would bring some positivity but yeah, he's so out there you never know.

I threw this name out there if you're getting Carr; Bill Musgrave as OC or Senior whatever.  Him and Carr had great years together, they won games and Carr went for like 8k and 60 TDs over those 2 season.  This was back in 2015/16, so maybe you bring in someone from his tree and have him as the senior dude but just saying, could be worth while if they go that direction. 

 

[derp]

25 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

A big part of my issue with Rodgers is just that I think he can be an a$$hole.  I don't want to encourage douche-yness on the team.  I think he has a much better chance of causing a complete implosion than a guy like Carr.  Carr is the kind of QB that I need the OC to look and say I can score with this guy.  If they can fine.  If they can't **** 'em.  

Yeah, I have no interest in having Rodgers the person on the team. I'd feel less gross than Brady, but still gross. In the press conference after acquiring either of those guys, when Saleh/Douglas inevitably say "this guy gives us a chance to push for a Super Bowl" my personal interpretation of that for Rodgers would be "yeah or it'll blow up in your face" and for Carr it'd be "well that's just coach speak". I guess that's how I draw that line. But no doubt, not a fan of Rodgers the person and I'd feel uneasy about it.

I think drafting and resetting is the most prudent move. Would very much depend on the new offensive coaching staff. I get everyone has draft fatigue, but what this roster could be in a year is probably the first time I'd feel that they weren't throwing a quarterback to the wolves - and if they have the right veteran and commit to sitting the guy for a year I think it's the best shot they've had in a while to actually develop someone. I get the draft fatigue, I get that nobody wants a dead year, I get that the floor is very low.

They've tried it for a long time but they've done it so haphazardly, I think this is finally the right time to take that shot and I struggle with the idea of burning this window with young talent on a mid level veteran hoping he finds some magic.

I also for the record very firmly did not want them to take Wilson because they didn't have a veteran in place and I didn't think they had the roster to support him. So I'm not always about throwing darts at quarterbacks. But build the offensive line a little and have Garrett Wilson to throw to plus a good defense - situations have rarely been this good for a Jets draft pick. You sit him for a year too. Or trade out of the first this year to pick up 2024 capital - would be fine too.

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, jgb said:

Jets might be betting favorite to get Carr but I’m sure they’re also the betting favorite to screw it up over something dumb like refusing to agree to validate his parking after the interview or some crap.

We just need some of Macc's wife's cupcakes and we'll be all set.

[VJphillyfan]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

A big part of my issue with Rodgers is just that I think he can be an a$$hole.  I don't want to encourage douche-yness on the team.  I think he has a much better chance of causing a complete implosion than a guy like Carr.  Carr is the kind of QB that I need the OC to look and say I can score with this guy.  If they can fine.  If they can't **** 'em.  

We need an as hole.  This franchise has had way too many Woody Sycophants last 20 years that’s a big reason for the dysfunction 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

We just need some of Macc's wife's cupcakes and we'll be all set.

What do you want to bet the jets got them from that little bin by the checkout aisle with the orange 50% off sticker because they were 2 days old.

There’s no salary cap for cupcakes, woody!

@Barry McCockinner

[#27TheDominator]

10 minutes ago, VJphillyfan said:

We need an as hole.  This franchise has had way too many Woody Sycophants last 20 years that’s a big reason for the dysfunction 

An a$$hole that will cheat ro win?  Maybe.  A douchey go his own way know-it-all?  That is NEVER a good thing

[jgb]

10 minutes ago, VJphillyfan said:

We need an as hole.  This franchise has had way too many Woody Sycophants last 20 years that’s a big reason for the dysfunction 

Eh Rodgers is one of the biggest douches in sport. I don’t care if Jets are choirboys but Rodgers will go all sulky mcsulkerson if he makes a move to a new team and then hits adversity. Great QB don’t get me wrong but with his skills declining and how young the jets are… don’t like the fit.

[Bronxville Jets Fan]

10 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

Do you have a link? I tried googling but only found old articles

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/01/23/fmia-divisional-brock-purdy-49ers-bengals-eagles/

Here’s the relevant quote: “As for the compensation due Green Bay, my guess is the Pack would want at least two first-round picks. The Woody Johnson Jets, desperate for a star QB almost since the Broadway Joe days, would happily pay that freight, I’d guess. But would Rodgers accept a deal to the Jets? We shall see.”

[bla bla bla]

54 minutes ago, Bronxville Jets Fan said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/01/23/fmia-divisional-brock-purdy-49ers-bengals-eagles/

Here’s the relevant quote: “As for the compensation due Green Bay, my guess is the Pack would want at least two first-round picks. The Woody Johnson Jets, desperate for a star QB almost since the Broadway Joe days, would happily pay that freight, I’d guess. But would Rodgers accept a deal to the Jets? We shall see.”

Thank you! Wanted to make a video about this haha

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Goodness gracious this is light years better than the “start ZW” option for ‘23

 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Elijah Moore SZN if they get Carr

Carr’s bread and butter is throwing between the numbers 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Carr is right about this 

Can’t stand Orlovsky

 

[Copernicus]

14 hours ago, jgb said:

I’d rather spend elite money on a good quarterback than spend good money on a garbage quarterback.

I tend to think Carr is the best option factoring in all aspects including his play on the field. While I would rank Carr's ability a notch lower than say LaMarr and Rogers I would rank Carr higher in durability and less chance of drama derailing his season. Can LaMarr stay healthy? He hasnt and his current injury is starting to seem much worse than expected. Is Rogers going to decide after a psychelic night of Ayahuaca in NYC that he is done with football? This is not an attempt at snarky humor, Rogers personality scares me and listening to @GREENBEAN on Jets 24/7 @bla bla bla who is an expert in this field mentioned how people who go down this path of psychelics often are changed for life and things that were once important no longer are. I thik Carr is our best option for these reasons

 https://www.si.com/fannation/bringmethesports/nfl-news-and-rumors/aaron-rodgers-experience-with-psychedelics-made-me-better-player-lover

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

I tend to think Carr is the best option factoring in all aspects including his play on the field. While I would rank Carr's ability a notch lower than say LaMarr and Rogers I would rank Carr higher in durability and less chance of drama derailing his season. Can LaMarr stay healthy? He hasnt and his current injury is starting to seem much worse than expected. Is Rogers going to decide after a psychelic night of Ayahuaca in NYC that he is done with football? This is not an attempt at snarky humor, Rogers personality scares me and listening to @GREENBEAN on Jets 24/7 @bla bla bla who is an expert in this field mentioned how people who go down this path of psychelics often are changed for life and things that were once important no longer are. I thik Carr is our best option for these reasons

 https://www.si.com/fannation/bringmethesports/nfl-news-and-rumors/aaron-rodgers-experience-with-psychedelics-made-me-better-player-lover

Yeah nothing to really disagree with here. Jets are desperate for stability at the position. Quality of play and availability and lack of distractions. We haven’t had an off season free of QB drama since Pennington. Without that it’s extremely hard for an organization to devote itself to solving other issues.

[Copernicus]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Yeah nothing to really disagree with here. Jets are desperate for stability at the position. Quality of play and availability and lack of distractions. We haven’t had an off season free of QB drama since Pennington. Without that it’s extremely hard for an organization to devote itself to solving other issues.

The question I would have is what to do if Carr is not available? This is where it gets real sticky for me. Is giving up so much for Rogers or LaMarr really worth the risk? We will get destroyed by media and fans if we trade for LaMarr or Rogers, give up tons of draft capital and money against the cap, and then they don't produce for reasons we have discussed. Then what? We would have have so little resources to correct it. We are soooo fortunate that Joe Douglas has structured this team where he just had a collasal miss in Zach (for the moment anyway) but we have enough wiggle room to correct it. Trading for Rogers or Lamarr makes them a must succeed situation because there is really no plan B.  Are we also going to ignore that our "luck" in situations like this is not good (to say the least)? 

[jgb]

10 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

The question I would have is what to do if Carr is not available? This is where it gets real sticky for me. Is giving up so much for Rogers or LaMarr really worth the risk? We will get destroyed by media and fans if we trade for LaMarr or Rogers, give up tons of draft capital and money against the cap, and then they don't produce for reasons we have discussed. Then what? We would have have so little resources to correct it. We are soooo fortunate that Joe Douglas has structured this team where he just had a collasal miss in Zach (for the moment anyway) but we have enough wiggle room to correct it. Trading for Rogers or Lamarr makes them a must succeed situation because there is really no plan B.  Are we also going to ignore that our "luck" in situations like this is not good (to say the least)? 

My sense is that if JD was near the beginning of his contract, he’d go for a Minshew or Jacoby Brissett type and draft a 2nd/3rd round QB this off season if he doesn’t land Carr. But now as others have said what’s his incentive to save dry powder for 2024 when he might not make it past 2023? Imagine his job interviews next season if he’s fired: “So you drafted a bust and then brought in a JAG bridge QB in an off season when 3 FQBs were available?” JD has built a nice car. He’s going to get the best driver he can for 2023 is my sense.

 

[Copernicus]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

My sense is that if JD was near the beginning of his contract, he’d go for a Minshew or Jacoby Brissett type and draft a 2nd/3rd round QB this off season if he doesn’t land Carr. But now as others have said what’s his incentive to save dry powder for 2024 when he might not make it past 2023? Imagine his job interviews next season if he’s fired: “So you drafted a bust and then brought in a JAG bridge QB in an off season when 3 FQBs were available?” JD has built a nice car. He’s going to get the best driver he can for 2023 is my sense.

 

That is an intersting pov. I am very intrigued at the prospect of Minshew. His numbers are very good. But I agree that it would be so risky putting all our assets into him mas our starting QB 

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

That is an intersting pov. I am very intrigued at the prospect of Minshew. His numbers are very good. But I agree that it would be so risky putting all our assets into him mas our starting QB 

I also like Minshew. He’d probably be in the 20-25 range of starting QBs. Guy has earned the right to get a chance somewhere maybe with more experience he can crack top 20. Just don’t think it’ll be here given the current desperation situation.

 

[slimjasi]

Just now, jgb said:

I also like Minshew. He’d probably be in the 20-25 range of starting QBs. Guy has earned the right to get a chance somewhere maybe with more experience he can crack top 20. Just don’t think it’ll be here given the current desperation situation.

 

I'm not convinced it will be anywhere

NFL GMs have ignored his good performances on bad teams for years now. 

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I'm not convinced it will be anywhere

NFL GMs have ignored his good performances on bad teams for years now. 

You might be right but I think he will actually get a chance this off season. It might just be a Mitch Trubisky like chance to caretake for a rookie.

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

You might be right but I think he will actually get a chance this off season. It might be a Mitch Trubisky like chance just to caretaker for a rookie.

I agree he deserves a shot. He has shockingly good numbers given his current reputation/status

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I agree he deserves a shot. He has shockingly good numbers given his current reputation/status

The book on him is that he’s a noodle arm and isn’t going put a team on his back. He’s seen as an ideal backup — cheap, steady. But I think arm strength is the most overrated QB trait and has a rapidly-diminishing marginal utility once you hit the “adequate” level. 90% of passes don’t require a flamethrower. They require reading the D, going through progressions, and putting the ball on the spot.

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

The book on him is that he’s a noodle arm and isn’t going put a team on his back. He’s seen as an ideal backup — cheap, steady. But I think arm strength is the most overrated QB trait and has a rapidly-diminishing marginal utility once you hit the “adequate” level. 90% of passes don’t require a flamethrower. They require reading the D, going through progressions, and putting the ball on the spot.

Following up many may not know that Minshew was #1 in yards and top 5 in completion percentage across all of FBS his last season at Washington.

[JetPotato]

4 hours ago, Copernicus said:

I tend to think Carr is the best option factoring in all aspects including his play on the field. While I would rank Carr's ability a notch lower than say LaMarr and Rogers I would rank Carr higher in durability and less chance of drama derailing his season. Can LaMarr stay healthy? He hasnt and his current injury is starting to seem much worse than expected. Is Rogers going to decide after a psychelic night of Ayahuaca in NYC that he is done with football? This is not an attempt at snarky humor, Rogers personality scares me and listening to @GREENBEAN on Jets 24/7 @bla bla bla who is an expert in this field mentioned how people who go down this path of psychelics often are changed for life and things that were once important no longer are. I thik Carr is our best option for these reasons

 https://www.si.com/fannation/bringmethesports/nfl-news-and-rumors/aaron-rodgers-experience-with-psychedelics-made-me-better-player-lover

I take this as you've never tried psychadelics?

[Sonny Werblin]

Andy Daulton and Chad Henne are more likely to be under center for the 2023 Jets than Derek Carr.

[the Claw]

Of the “big-name” FA qbs this season, Carr would be my choice. This team was a few plays away from a playoff appearance despite the glaring black hole of ineptitude at qb. Carr, though not elite, would likely have been enough to get the team over the hump and into the post season.  He’s not a world saver, but he’ll help the team win games while they look for their franchise guy, meanwhile the team is getting better at winning. 
 

The Jets, however, are not one player away from a super bowl, so giving up multiple first rounders to get any of the other top tier guys is, imo, a fool’s errand. This team still needs to have a pipeline of talented young players so they don’t rely too heavily on FAgency. Why anyone on this site would take an injury prone qb while still giving up first round picks is completely lost on me. It makes zero sense. This is the Jets. You don’t tempt fate. 

[Copernicus]

1 hour ago, JetPotato said:

I take this as you've never tried psychadelics?

No, I havent so I cant speak with any experience on it however it seems to be a pretty big jump from alcohol and marijuanna to hallucinigens. Can't remember an athlete of Rogers status speaking on it.