Should the Jets re-sign Quinnen Williams for 20-25 million a year?

[Dunnie]

3 minutes ago, carlito1171 said:

He'll be even more expensive next season....the price doesn't stay the same lol

Never said it would .... you go to the racetrack ... a young horse that has continuously come in 3rd in the field places 1st one time. How do you bet ?

Edited February 5, 2023 by Dunnie

[carlito1171]

46 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Yes.   You drafted a dominant player with an early pick.  
 

What’s the point of drafting if you don’t keep the good players you pick?  
 

You want to the the NFL’s farm team?  

You have to understand the psyche of a SOJF.......

Subconsciously, they'd rather that and hoard $$$$$ that doesn't belong to them because it didn't work with one DT 10 years ago ?

[Sammybighead]

Hard Yes with zero thought

[Dunnie]

2 minutes ago, carlito1171 said:

You have to understand the psyche of a SOJF.......

Subconsciously, they'd rather that and hoard $$$$$ that doesn't belong to them because it didn't work with one DT 10 years ago ?

If you think its a one time deal that has led to cautionary spending ... you must be new here.

[carlito1171]

11 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Never said it would .... you go to the racetrack ... a young horse that has continuously come in 3rd in the field places 1st one time. How do you bet ?

That's nice. But this is the NFL. I have no problem giving Q a 4 year deal at the AAV he deserves that's structured correctly where we can get out if things go awry....just like the rest of the deals we've structured 

[carlito1171]

3 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

If you think its a one time deal that has led to cautionary spending ... you must be new here.

How many of our 1st rd picks have been extended in the last decade? 

[Dunnie]

3 minutes ago, carlito1171 said:

How many of our 1st rd picks have been extended in the last decade? 

How many were worth extending ?

2012	16	Quinton Coples	DE	North Carolina	4	4
2013	9	Dee Milliner	CB	Alabama	3	3
	13	Sheldon Richardson	DT	Missouri	9*	4
2014	18	Calvin Pryor	S	Louisville	4	3
2015	6	Leonard Williams	DT	USC	8*	5
2016	20	Darron Lee	LB	Ohio State	5*	3
2017	6	Jamal Adams	S	LSU	6*	3	[36]
2018	3	Sam Darnold	QB	USC	5*	3
2019	3	Quinnen Williams	DT	Alabama	4*	4*
2020	11	Mekhi Becton	OT	Louisville	3*	3*
2021	2	Zach Wilson	QB	BYU	2*	2*
	14	Alijah Vera-Tucker	G	USC	2*	2*
2022	4	Sauce Gardner	CB	Cincinnati	1*	1*
	10	Garrett Wilson	WR	Ohio State	1*	1*
	26	Jermaine Johnson

Edited February 5, 2023 by Dunnie

[carlito1171]

Just now, Dunnie said:

How many were worth extending ?

2013	9	Dee Milliner	CB	Alabama	3	3
	13	Sheldon Richardson	DT	Missouri	9*	4
2014	18	Calvin Pryor	S	Louisville	4	3
2015	6	Leonard Williams	DT	USC	8*	5
2016	20	Darron Lee	LB	Ohio State	5*	3
2017	6	Jamal Adams	S	LSU	6*	3	[36]
2018	3	Sam Darnold	QB	USC	5*	3
2019	3	Quinnen Williams	DT	Alabama	4*	4*
2020	11	Mekhi Becton	OT	Louisville	3*	3*
2021	2	Zach Wilson	QB	BYU	2*	2*
	14	Alijah Vera-Tucker	G	USC	2*	2*
2022	4	Sauce Gardner	CB	Cincinnati	1*	1*
	10	Garrett Wilson	WR	Ohio State	1*	1*
	26	Jermaine Johnson

Exactly my point,

Now we have one worth extending and our 1st thought is to hesitate? What message is that sending to our All-Pro Rookie CB and our budding star WR? 

[Dunnie]

You have to go back to Farrior to find a guy we were crazy to let walk. Maybe Vilma.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Dunnie

[Dunnie]

2 minutes ago, carlito1171 said:

Exactly my point,

Now we have one worth extending and our 1st thought is to hesitate? What message is that sending to our All-Pro Rookie CB and our budding star WR? 

Message would be ... put together more than one year of production and get paid immediately.

[varjet]

When was the last time Woody guaranteed a player $20mm+/year for 2+ years?

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Barton said:

Leonard slid back to solid but unremarkable play as soon as he got paid. 

And that’s simply not true, he’s a good player.  
You know every player isn’t Mo Wilkerson.  Every player signed won’t cash out.  Q is a kid, has another big payday down the road after this contract runs its course.  Mo didn’t have another deal, he was done.  The majority of players don’t stop performing because they got paid.  Every FA doesn’t turn into Mo Wilk.  
Developing talent for other teams to benefit from isn’t a smart plan

[Jet_Engine1]

Pay the guy.  FFS, it's not your money, and if you want talent,  you pay for it. And when you dick around with your good players, you get an even worse rep than already earned. Every agent in the league is paying attention.  

[carlito1171]

4 minutes ago, varjet said:

When was the last time Woody guaranteed a player $20mm+/year for 2+ years?

Were non QB's worth 20mil per the last time we had a player worth extending? 

[Dunnie]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

And that’s simply not true, he’s a good player.  
You know every player isn’t Mo Wilkerson.  Every player signed won’t cash out.  Q is a kid, has a next big payday down the road.  Mo didn’t.  That’s and th3 majority of players don’t stop performing because they got paid.  
Developing talent for other teams to benefit from isn’t a smart plan

I want to feel this way ... i just wish Q balled out in 2021 too.

[Jet_Engine1]

7 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

You have to go back to Farrior to find a guy we were crazy to let walk. Maybe Vilma.

DeMario Davis says hi. 

[Dunnie]

2 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

DeMario Davis says hi. 

You are right !(Though he was a 3rd rd pick ... Not a first round pick)  I stand corrected .... how we let him walk ill never know.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Dunnie

[Jet Nut]

8 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I want to feel this way ... i just wish Q balled out in 2021 too.

He did.  
 

[KRL]

A 25 year old #3 pick who has grown into what he was at Alabama, yeah let's kick him

to the curb.  I'm sure Shepherd can replace his production

[Jet Nut]

16 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Message would be ... put together more than one year of production and get paid immediately.

It doesn’t work that way.  It’s time for Q to be signed or moved unless you want to tag him and open that can of worms. 

[bla bla bla]

2 hours ago, Dunnie said:

but one year wonders ? How many times will the Jets make the same exact poor judgment call ?

I actually don't know the answer to this question. Who are the other 1 year wonders we signed to massive extensions?

[peebag]

If we sign Q to a 25mil contract, how do we fit in ARod/Carr on our Salary cap?

[The Crusher]

11 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

DeMario Davis says hi. 

James Farrior too! 

[Barry McCockinner]

Crusher told me he was going to eat my lunch if I didn't post this in here, which I thought was weird since he could have just posted it himself. Anyway, I too enjoy lunch.

 

[bonkertons]

No idea how anyone can say "no" to this.  Really, because of Mo Wilk?  C'mon.  At some point you have to pay to keep your top picks who actually reach their potential.  Otherwise in a few years we'll be talking about dealing Garrett because he wants to get paid like Diggs, or Sauce because he wants to make more money than any other CB.  Great players want to get paid....shocker, I know.  

 

Pay the ******* guy.  Stop being cheap ****s.  "Let's get Rodgers to win a Super Bowl NOW!!!  Also, let's trade away our best player"

[Jet Nut]

16 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

You are right !(Though he was a 3rd rd pick ... Not a first round pick)  I stand corrected .... how we let him walk ill never know.

We let him walk not just once but twice.  
How brain dead stupid was that?  
Macc at work

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, peebag said:

If we sign Q to a 25mil contract, how do we fit in ARod/Carr on our Salary cap?

The same way the Rams  can pay a Donald, Stafford and then add Baker while paying Ramsey and the rest of that SB team 

[PepPep]

2 hours ago, Barton said:

Is anyone else not noticing the major red flags on Quinnen?

If you haven't been watching this team. Yes. 

If you have been paying attention. No.  

The reason QW is finally breaking out into the player we all expected him to be is that we now have legitimate depth on the D-line (after drafting JJ/Clemons and after Lawson came back from injury) and a dominant secondary that is allowing the front 4 to get to the QB. This is the same reason Huff had such a great season- btw. 

Sure, there may have been some extra motivation for him this season. But he has always been a very good, super talented player on the cusp of breaking out into a star. Now that he has had a season where it all came together and he is proving to be 'that guy', you want to let him walk or start playing around with his contract? And you wonder why he wants to sit out voluntary workouts if he is not extended?

Sign the man. He deserves it. This is nonsense. 

[Dunnie]

21 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

James Farrior too! 

I posted Farrior ?- He was a beast with Pitt. 

[carlito1171]

35 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Crusher told me he was going to eat my lunch if I didn't post this in here, which I thought was weird since he could have just posted it himself. Anyway, I too enjoy lunch.

 

There's a 0% chance we're able to be at the top of the league in QB pressures and 7th in sacks while having the 32nd ranked blitz rate without Quinnen Williams 

But yeah let's move the goal posts with his extension and pretend we have someone on the roster who can replace his production. Genius Idea! ?

[Dcat]

43 minutes ago, peebag said:

If we sign Q to a 25mil contract, how do we fit in ARod/Carr on our Salary cap?

every team with stars manages the cap.  A new contract can push lots of cap money to later yrs when needed.

[Flashlite80]

I think Quinnen had a great year and is a major reason why our defense was so improved.  I believe his improvement was consistent with having better players around him at defensive end.   However, when comparing him against other elite DT's, his Hurries and run stops are 67% and 34% lower.   He is a stud and deserves to get paid but if you take the whole body of work, he has not outplayed his rookie contract.  I am always wary of one hit wonders, particularly when it is in a contract year.

The Jets are not at major risk of losing Quinnen.  He is signed at $9.5MM for 2023.  That is a $10MM cap savings in a year we need to find cap to pay a quarterback.  He cannot walk.  We can use the franchise tag up to 3 years.  The franchise tag for offensive lineman was $16.6 MM in 2022.  So we should be able to lock him up in 2024 at around $18MM.  If we had to use the Franchise tag in 2025, it would cost 20% more or $21.6 MM.  There is a 2026 option also but it gets pretty expensive at that point.

I believe under this approach, we could retain Quinnen through 2025 for $49.1MM or a $16.4MM average( 9.5, 18, 21.6).  This insulates us against any drop off in performance and frees up cap this year as we build our team and address the quarterback and offensive line.

I would offer 3 years at $20MM, 2/3 guaranteed, beginning in 2024.  If he doesn't bite, play his 5th year and use the franchise tag.  If he holds out, let him sit.   Draft a DT in 1st or second round.  We need one to stop the run anyway.

[TheClashFan]

47 minutes ago, Flashlite80 said:

I think Quinnen had a great year and is a major reason why our defense was so improved.  I believe his improvement was consistent with having better players around him at defensive end.   However, when comparing him against other elite DT's, his Hurries and run stops are 67% and 34% lower.   He is a stud and deserves to get paid but if you take the whole body of work, he has not outplayed his rookie contract.  I am always wary of one hit wonders, particularly when it is in a contract year.

The Jets are not at major risk of losing Quinnen.  He is signed at $9.5MM for 2023.  That is a $10MM cap savings in a year we need to find cap to pay a quarterback.  He cannot walk.  We can use the franchise tag up to 3 years.  The franchise tag for offensive lineman was $16.6 MM in 2022.  So we should be able to lock him up in 2024 at around $18MM.  If we had to use the Franchise tag in 2025, it would cost 20% more or $21.6 MM.  There is a 2026 option also but it gets pretty expensive at that point.

I believe under this approach, we could retain Quinnen through 2025 for $49.1MM or a $16.4MM average( 9.5, 18, 21.6).  This insulates us against any drop off in performance and frees up cap this year as we build our team and address the quarterback and offensive line.

I would offer 3 years at $20MM, 2/3 guaranteed, beginning in 2024.  If he doesn't bite, play his 5th year and use the franchise tag.  If he holds out, let him sit.   Draft a DT in 1st or second round.  We need one to stop the run anyway.

Is it true that a player can be franchised three times?  I thought it was less than that.

If so, yeah, maybe offer him a 3 year extension for about $20m per year, and if he balks, franchise him.  However, you risk having a player feeling "disrespected" and all that, possibly not playing hard and being a locker room cancer, etc.

 

[Xtina]

4 hours ago, Barton said:

Is anyone else not noticing the major red flags on Quinnen?

Before 2022, he average abouted 5-6 sacks a year and was a solid player but a dissapointment based on where he was drafted. 

His contract year in 2023, he doubles his production and IMMEDIATELY calls to get paid as soon as the season ends and also says he wont show up to voluntary camps etc.

This tells me he was focusing on getting paid the entire year (playing for the future contract)

I would not pay this guy 20-25 million a year. 

Use the resources to bolster the offense which currently has an average Oline and only 1 stand out receiver at WR/TE, IMO. Rodgers/Carr/other Veteran will need to get paid, too.

 

How about an incentive based contract? Is that not possible? 

[FootballLove]

4 hours ago, Barton said:

This tells me he was focusing on getting paid the entire year (playing for the future contract)

I would not pay this guy 20-25 million a year. 

Use the resources to bolster the offense which currently has an average Oline and only 1 stand out receiver at WR/TE, IMO. Rodgers/Carr/other Veteran will need to get paid, too.

 

When you suggest you would not pay Quinnen 20-25 million, I assume then that you'd pay him 30 instead? hmmm. Interesting.