Dalvin Cook Trade ?

[derp]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Okay.  You win.

Relying on a 4th round rookie is a sound decision good franchises make.

I think we have different definitions of relying on.

He was drafted in the fifth round.

Its not exactly like RB depth charts are stacked around the league. There are fifth and sixth round picks who I’d imagine are currently as high or higher on depth charts on title contenders (Chase Brown on Cincinnati, Deuce Vaughn on Dallas).

And it’s probably the easiest position to pick up a street free agent who can produce. There are several established pros available. Plus it’s a non premium position.

In my opinion better to bring in the young guy with upside first and evaluate that, especially with a pick as late as the fifth. Easy enough to bring in a known commodity with a lower ceiling later if it’s needed.

Especially because if Hall is healthy early in the season then this really doesn’t matter at all.

[#27TheDominator]

56 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

22 Year old Hall is 8 months from the injury.  OBJ is two years.  This is a two year injury.

Dalvin Cook is a major upgrade over anyone we have on the Jets other than the unknown Hall.  

Having good players on the roster is a good thing - not sure why so many or so against good players.

OBJ tore his knee in February 2022, Hall did his in October.  OBJ also has prior knee issues and is claiming he played "without an ACL."

[Jet Nut]

20 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Rex Ryan and Mike Maccagnan, gainfully employed

That would let us know what the league thinks about Macc & Rex.  
Now what does that have to do with Idzik & Gase?  
Answer?  Absolutely nothing.  

[slats]

18 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Rex Ryan and Mike Maccagnan, gainfully employed

Maccagnan sucked. Rex represents the high water mark for this franchise since the millennium, and banked another cool $25M from the Bills before moving to the relaxing pastures of television. If he had an interest in being a DC, he’d currently be well employed. 

[jetsons]

7 hours ago, derp said:

Wonder why Perine isn’t in this comparison.

Why should he be?... he's no longer on the team. 

[derp]

39 minutes ago, jetsons said:

Why should he be?... he's no longer on the team. 

“When it comes to running backs NY Jets GM Joe Douglas has a type.”

He’s drafted four running backs in four years but only two are listed. I had forgotten about Carter but he doesn’t fit that “type” either. Would think if he had a type it’d be consistent over such a small window.

Just struck me as funny how quickly other picks get discounted.

[Jethead]

5 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

If you want to believe it’s smart to count on a 4th round rookie, even a RB, on a team with Super Bowl aspirations, I say good for you.  I don’t agree.  

Right now Izzy is #4 on the RB depth chart so to say the Jets are "counting on him" is totally inaccurate. Dalvin Cook is damaged goods. Jets are a better team if Bills or Fins waste a roster spot on him, not to mention a draft pick.

[billo83]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

IMO, Gase gets a pass because he walked into a franchise that had been driven into the ground by the worst GM in the history of the sport

Idzyk was already gone by then

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, AFJF said:

I know they're acting like they think they're SB contenders, but if at some point you may have to turn the fate of your season over to Zach Wilson, I'm not putting you in that bucket.  You're a very good team with post-season aspirations but not a QB on your roster who can even hold a lead if Rodgers has to miss a quarter of football at some point.

They said Hall will be ready for week 1 over a month ago.  That tells me he's so far ahead in his rehab that they aren't concerned.  I think Abanikanda can play.  We'll find out soon enough if he can or not but I don't think they would have taken him in that spot if they thought he'd only play 1-2  snaps a week.

And let's not forget, when the OL wasn't a complete sh*t show, both Bam and MC looked like quality players.

Sure.  All of this is assuming Rodgers stays healthy.  If you lose Rodgers for more than a couple of games the season is done anyway.  But that's just about any contending team including KC, Buffalo and Cincy.

Rodgers is healthy now (by all acounts his sore thumb is healed) Hall is not.  Like it or not, this is a rough injury that many never get back to 100% - ever.  It sucks, but it's the reality.  

Cook is an upgrade over Bam and Carter.  If I'm JD and I believe this team to be a serious SB contender, I sign Cook the day he's cut.  

That's all I'm saying.  Not knocking the team or talent.  Just if you can add impact talent to the RB position I think it's a good idea.

[Larz]

John Taylor’s Bass line in Rio is super underrated 

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

You’ll live and die with a QBs numbers.  You think he was mediocre because of where he ranked while people who understand that there’s more to it than numbers will see it differently. 

Well, in addition to his numbers I look at W/L record.  I do think W/L record is a legitimate QB stat.  Rodgers was a mediocre QB last year, from just about any standard.   Look, I understanding he's one of the best, if not the best to ever play the game...And that surely has to be taken into account that last year was an abreaction.

It happens.  Great players have bad year and football has a lot of variables. So I hope it wasn't because he turned 39 and started to age, but it's surely it's possible it was other reasons..

I mean he had Weapon issues.   An early draft pick, talented WR that needed time to connect with him along with guys like Allen Lazard and Randall Cobb, and a TE group that didn't scare anyone.  Though sledding for sure... 

He also had a sore thumb and that should be taken into account.

And, there were l motivation issues - As he stated just 2 months ago he was 90% sure he was going to retire.  

Hopefully his excitement about being in NY, the massive talent increase and healed thumb will be enough to get him back to MVP form.  I don't put it past him.  Would love to see it happen.

 

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, AFJF said:

As is the case with every potential FA, if they price is right then go ahead and take a shot, but I imagine he'll have multiple suitors and the Jets are in no position to get in a bidding war for anyone at this point.

Agreed!

Well, I wouldn't say on "anyone at this point" as if the right guy at the right position came free...

but I get your point on a RB and don't disagree.

 

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

If Cook is so good, why don't the Vikings, who were a playoff team last season and are contenders again this season, just keep him?  Why is he a cut threat?  Are they just stupid?  

The Vikings RBs are Cook, Mattison, and Chandler.  They don't have anyone close to Breece Hall on the roster.  People on this board are just enamored with "names" like Cook without thinking it through. 

Tough to say.  There are a lot of reasons teams cut bait.  But I suspect it's a salary cap issue.

Now, if you have to $10mm+ - sure, not worth it.  But if he can be had for a reasonable price on a one or two year rental - he would be worth it in this short Rodgers window.

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

With this team, with the rest of the RBs we have, yes, it’s a sound decision that good teams make every year.  Loading up on a RB that with Hall and the rest we have no need for is sound thinking.  

Again, I don't disagree.  

Having a 4th rookie as your 3rd or 4th back in an all-in year makes a lot of sense (heck in any year) but needing him to be anything more than a 3rd or 4th option would be a mistake.

That's all I've been saying.

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, derp said:

I think we have different definitions of relying on.

He was drafted in the fifth round.

Its not exactly like RB depth charts are stacked around the league. There are fifth and sixth round picks who I’d imagine are currently as high or higher on depth charts on title contenders (Chase Brown on Cincinnati, Deuce Vaughn on Dallas).

And it’s probably the easiest position to pick up a street free agent who can produce. There are several established pros available. Plus it’s a non premium position.

In my opinion better to bring in the young guy with upside first and evaluate that, especially with a pick as late as the fifth. Easy enough to bring in a known commodity with a lower ceiling later if it’s needed.

Especially because if Hall is healthy early in the season then this really doesn’t matter at all.

Agree 100% with all of this.

[Larz]

6 seasons, 1,282 carries. This is usually about when a back starts to decline. Probably why there are rumors minny might trade him 

[FidelioJet]

51 minutes ago, Jethead said:

Right now Izzy is #4 on the RB depth chart so to say the Jets are "counting on him" is totally inaccurate. Dalvin Cook is damaged goods. Jets are a better team if Bills or Fins waste a roster spot on him, not to mention a draft pick.

I never said they were counting on him to be....Like 5 times in this thread alone I've said that to be the case.

This started by me commenting to someone saying they weren't concerned with Hall coming back slowly because Izzy was going to pick up his slack.

My only point was that was concerning, as we have no idea what he'll be as a pro - and assuming he could replace someone who was, possibly, the best RB in football last year (until he got hurt) would be a mistake.

That is all I've said...

[FidelioJet]

Just now, Larz said:

6 seasons, 1,282 carries. This is usually about when a back starts to decline. Probably why there are rumors minny might trade him 

Love this one.  

The decline hasn't happened yet, but is inevitable - so don't bring him in.

But when the decline has already happened - with someone you want - it must be some other reason.

[AFJF]

26 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Sure.  All of this is assuming Rodgers stays healthy.  If you lose Rodgers for more than a couple of games the season is done anyway.  But that's just about any contending team including KC, Buffalo and Cincy.

Rodgers is healthy now (by all acounts his sore thumb is healed) Hall is not.  Like it or not, this is a rough injury that many never get back to 100% - ever.  It sucks, but it's the reality.  

Cook is an upgrade over Bam and Carter.  If I'm JD and I believe this team to be a serious SB contender, I sign Cook the day he's cut.  

That's all I'm saying.  Not knocking the team or talent.  Just if you can add impact talent to the RB position I think it's a good idea.

Not talking about Rodgers missing a stretch of time.  Talking about him missing a quarter or two of football in a must win game.

 

Are all of their backups as bad as Zach?  As in, if they entered a game with a 10 point lead would probably blow it?  All of them?

[Larz]

Vikings RB Dalvin Cook is making "excellent progress" in his recovery from mid-February shoulder surgery, according to NFL Network's Tom Pelissero. That procedure addressed a broken shoulder that Cook suffered back in 2019 and has been playing through since. The shoulder is "now 100% stable and stronger," per Pelissero. It doesn't sound like this will impact Cook's availability for the 2023 season. He's been mentioned as a potential trade or even cut candidate -- but this shoulder issue might be holding up any potential move. Perhaps something tran

[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Not talking about Rodgers missing a stretch of time.  Talking about him missing a quarter or two of football in a must win game.

 

Are all of their backups as bad as Zach?  As in, if they entered a game with a 10 point lead would probably blow it?  All of them?

I'm sorry.  Honestly, what is your question here?

Is it, should Zach be the #2 on this team?  My answer would be no.  Zach is surely capable of winning games as he's proven.  But this season is far too important to risk on someone as eratic as ZW...

[Larz]

[Larz]

He would be the fourth highest paid jet if you trade for him. If minny cuts him he’s going to sign somewhere he can be the top dog. 
 

yeah let’s argue over something that won’t happen. I’m bored too. 

[slats]

42 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Hall is not [healthy].  Like it or not, this is a rough injury that many never get back to 100% - ever.  It sucks, but it's the reality.

Wow, cool perspective. We all appreciate you clinging to the most absolute negative outcome, despite its unlikeliness. 

[rangerous]

7 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

The discussion was about 300 yard games are a no brainer and even old man Flacco had a couple.

Terrible to point out that our starting QB next year didn't have one all season? 

That wasn't an opinion, it was just a statement of fact.

The discussion was about how Rodgers would make the defense play honest and not stack the box. Yes Rodgers did not pass for 300 yds but the times the jets QBs did they also lost.

[FidelioJet]

5 minutes ago, slats said:

Wow, cool perspective. We all appreciate you clinging to the most absolute negative outcome, despite its unlikeliness. 

Not clinging to the negative.  Just being realistic.  Our roommate Barkley took two years.

And he's still not the same as he was - still amazing, but not the same.

Now, Barkley relied are far more scat back type stuff - so it's a harder comeback for him - but still.  You're clinging to the most optimistic view.  I'm just trying to be realistic.  Expecting Hall to be what he was in the first half of last year is probably expecting too much.

[Rhg1084]

Just sign Zeke or Hunt. They’d be a nice complement for Breece 

[section314]

8 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I like how the weirdo draftnik couldn't understand why we would draft a back into that crowded room and now we have people acting like we need to trade for a back because it is so weak.  I would also like to know what our draft analyst types think about Travis Dye.  @Paradis @win4ever @Beerfish @Chrebetfan80 @section314 @sec101row23 @maury77 @derp @Jets Voice of Reason what say you?  I am sure I missed some, but my memory isn't what it once was.

For me, he seemed like a draftable guy.  Not my type since he didn't have much in the measurable department.  Some of that was being injured for workouts, but he wasn't going to light the world on fire.  RB is probably the main "if you want to, you can" position, so he might still work out.  Strikes me as the kind of guy that might eke out a place and while he is not going to excite you, he isn't going to embarrass you if he has to step in for some reps.  I guess the fumbling is the main fear - which is the main issue with trying when you want to, but maybe can't. 

The guy we drafted from Pitt , Izzy, should be fine. Think he was a great pick and value where we got him,

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Well, in addition to his numbers I look at W/L record.  I do think W/L record is a legitimate QB stat.  Rodgers was a mediocre QB last year, from just about any standard.   Look, I understanding he's one of the best, if not the best to ever play the game...And that surely has to be taken into account that last year was an abreaction.

It happens.  Great players have bad year and football has a lot of variables. So I hope it wasn't because he turned 39 and started to age, but it's surely it's possible it was other reasons..

I mean he had Weapon issues.   An early draft pick, talented WR that needed time to connect with him along with guys like Allen Lazard and Randall Cobb, and a TE group that didn't scare anyone.  Though sledding for sure... 

He also had a sore thumb and that should be taken into account.

And, there were l motivation issues - As he stated just 2 months ago he was 90% sure he was going to retire.  

Hopefully his excitement about being in NY, the massive talent increase and healed thumb will be enough to get him back to MVP form.  I don't put it past him.  Would love to see it happen.

 

OMG stop, you obviously don’t know a thing about team ball.

This was a thread about RBs, not how much you hate AR8

[JETS SB]

8 minutes ago, section314 said:

The guy we drafted from Pitt , Izzy, should be fine. Think he was a great pick and value where we got him,

So when you bring in Aaron Rodgers, you cannot count on your best healthiest running back being a late 5th round pick who cannot block or consistently catch a ball out of the backfield.  I like the kid but he’s raw and one dimensional. Breece might need some time, even an entire season, to get back to full strength. Michael Carter is terrible. If we don’t bring in a good veteran RB, it would be a huge mistake.  

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Rodgers is healthy now (by all acounts his sore thumb is healed) Hall is not.  Like it or not, this is a rough injury that many never get back to 100% - ever.  It sucks, but it's the reality.  

The last century is long gone.  You have no idea that Hall isn’t healthy.  

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, JETS SB said:

So when you bring in Aaron Rodgers, you cannot count on your best healthiest running back being a late 5th round pick who cannot block or consistently catch a ball out of the backfield.  I like the kid but he’s raw and one dimensional. Breece might need some time, even an entire season, to get back to full strength. Michael Carter is terrible. If we don’t bring in a good veteran RB, it would be a huge mistake.  

And you know he can’t block how exactly?  Or that he’s one dimensional.  Or that Hall might need an entire season as opposed to being there on 9-11
Other than you’re saying it to help you case for Cook

[JETS SB]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

And you know he can’t block how exactly?  Or that he’s one dimensional.  Or that Hall might need an entire season as opposed to being there on 9-11
Other than you’re saying it to help you case for Cook

I have watched the kid play for 7 years. He went to high school with my son. I know his family. I love the kid. He’s one dimensional. I am sure he can eventually learn to block better and consistently catch the ball out of the backfield, but we brought in Rodgers for now. Not a few years from now when Izzy is NFL ready. There is a reason he went in the 5th round. Great kid but raw and yes, one dimensional, more likely a return specialist in year one with some change of pace offensive snaps  

As far as Hall, I am just being realistic to what the rehabilitation and full recovery is from a brutal injury like this. He could be back and be fine. I just don’t think it’s smart to rely on this. I hope I am wrong. But do we take that chance with the Rodgers window ?  

 

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, JETS SB said:

As far as Hall, I am just being realistic to what the rehabilitation and full recovery is from a brutal injury like this. He could be back and be fine. I just don’t think it’s smart to rely on this. I hope I am wrong. But do we take that chance with the Rodgers window ?  

Your scenario is a rarity in todays NFL.  And it wasn’t a brutal injury

[JETS SB]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Your scenario is a rarity in todays NFL.  And it wasn’t a brutal injury

Gotcha. So running backs regularly come back from ACL tears as good as before they were injured, in their first year back, regularly. You are saying it’s rare for RBs to not be themselves (Saquon and many others) right away. 

Good luck with that. Maybe you are watching a different NFL than I am.