Since striking out on Zach, JD has done the following ..

[LIJetsFan]

5 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Saying we "struck out" on Zach is just such a lazy take. But Jets fans just hate Zach and have from before he even took a snap so why would anyone see the other factors at work.

Hate is too strong a word.  Zach singlehandedly sunk our 2022 season.  With our top 5-7 defense and our otherwise pretty good roster offense wise, if we simply had a top 25 QB we'd have been in the post season. 

Zach was rated the 39th best (worse) QB.  For a #2 pick that is a disaster.  If you like blaming the OC, have at it but the OC wasn't the one who was dirting passes.  So, hate, no, severely disappointed, yes.    

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

6 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Saying we "struck out" on Zach is just such a lazy take. But Jets fans just hate Zach and have from before he even took a snap so why would anyone see the other factors at work.

We struck out on him, how can you argue we didn’t.  See @Jetsfan80 post that explains the why. In short, there is almost no chance he is going to ever start for the Jets because of a guy named Aaron Rodgers.  His 5th year contract would need to be exercised in less than a year.  

Even if we got 1 year out of him, that’s a big strikeout for the #2 pick in the draft.

I hope that somehow he breaks the probability tree and proves to be our QB of the future somewhere along the way but the odds of that are incredibly low.

 

[Beerfish]

52 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

Hate is too strong a word.  Zach singlehandedly sunk our 2022 season.  With our top 5-7 defense and our otherwise pretty good roster offense wise, if we simply had a top 25 QB we'd have been in the post season. 

Zach was rated the 39th best (worse) QB.  For a #2 pick that is a disaster.  If you like blaming the OC, have at it but the OC wasn't the one who was dirting passes.  So, hate, no, severely disappointed, yes.    

He was terrible, he also did not single-handedly sink the season, he never played at the end of the year so white and flacco sunk the season as much and he had a winning record.

We gave up two kick returns in games we lost by a  td or less.

Our all world defense utterly failed in one of the most important things a defense can do, get turnovers and they gave up huge plays at keys times of games

Wilson was bad and may very well never be good in this league but it's all to convenient to blame him for everything about last year, it simply is not the case.

[Jetsfan80]

41 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

He was terrible, he also did not single-handedly sink the season, he never played at the end of the year so white and flacco sunk the season as much and he had a winning record.

We gave up two kick returns in games we lost by a  td or less.

Our all world defense utterly failed in one of the most important things a defense can do, get turnovers and they gave up huge plays at keys times of games

Wilson was bad and may very well never be good in this league but it's all to convenient to blame him for everything about last year, it simply is not the case.

By far the largest reason for not making the playoffs last season, other than perhaps injuries, was the QB position and it isn’t debatable.  

Pretty sure the capital and resources we surrendered for Rodgers is an acknowledgement of this too.  Not to mention Rodgers stating he wanted to be here.  He wasn’t going to go to a non-contender at age 39.  He pretty clearly recognized that this team was a QB away from contention.  

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Dunnie said:

... And to this date ... Neither are Lance and Fields.

Fields >>>>>>> Zach.  He’s at least exciting to watch.  

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, Dunnie said:

.... And you know this how ??? Have there been games played I am unaware of ?

 

47 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

He was terrible, he also did not single-handedly sink the season, he never played at the end of the year so white and flacco sunk the season as much and he had a winning record.

We gave up two kick returns in games we lost by a  td or less.

Our all world defense utterly failed in one of the most important things a defense can do, get turnovers and they gave up huge plays at keys times of games

Wilson was bad and may very well never be good in this league but it's all to convenient to blame him for everything about last year, it simply is not the case.

Isn’t it nice that this debate is now entirely academic because—God willing—Zach Wilson never sees the field again as a New York Jet? I mean, imagine we didn’t get Rodgers and they were rolling into this year with the intent of rehabilitating Wilson out from beneath the specter of Mike LaFleur’s evil-doing. We’d be having a legitimate discussion about who was going to be coaching the team next year and if/when we should start tanking for Caleb Williams. 

[JohnnyLV]

48 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

He was terrible, he also did not single-handedly sink the season, he never played at the end of the year so white and flacco sunk the season as much and he had a winning record.

We gave up two kick returns in games we lost by a  td or less.

Our all world defense utterly failed in one of the most important things a defense can do, get turnovers and they gave up huge plays at keys times of games

Wilson was bad and may very well never be good in this league but it's all to convenient to blame him for everything about last year, it simply is not the case.

This is true. But people do not want to hear it. Benching Zach, and the incompetence of LaFleur and Saleh shielding him is the reason we missed the playoffs. He was actually 8th in the NFL in passer rating in the 4th quarter when conveniently LaFleur would actually have to get away from his "plan"

He was bad. No question but our coaching and approach towards Zach could not possibly have been worse. LaFleur and Saleh admitted that they did not adjust the offense for Zach they expected him to learn it. That boggles my mind. You have a guy that excels at the spread offense, RPO plays rolling out, attacking outside the numbers and the sideline and struggles at passes parallel to the LOS and needed improvement between the numbers. So what does LaFleur and Saleh do? They run an offense with the tightest splits in the NFL and "offense in a phone booth" where the entire offense is congested in the middle and shockingly Zach struggled.

Crap thing is that Hackett has much of the same tendencies. 

Funny thing about Zach. Change two plays and he is likely our QB1 today. If JFM does not get that roughing penalty Zach does not implode against NE and if we don't allow a punt return Zach might have won that game in overtime and his performance would have largely been forgotten. Jones was just as bad in that game yet no one seemed to care.

Benching Zach tore this team apart.

I have no faith in Saleh at all. In fact, this is maybe the least excited I have been about the Jets in quite a while. I am going to root for them with all my heart as always, but I think the Rodgers experiment is not going to work and we will be back on the coaching merry go round in February

 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Benching Zach tore this team apart.

Lmfao.  Which Jets players were pissed that poor Zach got benched?  Braxton Berrios?

[Flashlite80]

18 hours ago, bicketybam said:

At the end of the day the Niners would have taken Wilson if we traded them the pick. Bit instead they traded up and took Trey Lance with the next pick. But they are a model organization and we suck.

We put an inexpperienced OC and a shaky line around Zack both years.  Watched that OC ignore plays that would help Zach, calling plays he knew werenot to his strength.  He also played Moore two game as a ghost, playing him but refusing to target him.  He kept an offensive line coach who was handed more than enough talent but never put together a unit that could pick up a stunt or a blitz.

Rodgers is a HOF'er and he has his hand picked WR's and an OC who is tailor made for Rodgers.   BTW, they replaced the offensive line coach too.  If they did for the rookie, what they did for the future hall of famer, things might have been different.

The Niners redshirted Lance because he wasn't ready.  The Jets did the opposite with Zach.  The Patriots played a passing offense designed around quick hit passes and high efficiency passes.  The Jets did the opposite.

We suck because we weren't patient with a QB obviously not ready.  We suck because we hired a crappy OC and watched him stubbornly mismanage the play calling.  We suck because they built offensive line after offensive line that couldn't provide protection that could even be described as poor.  All these are critical errors when you bet the franchise future  on a young QB.

Constant pressure, free runners and the surprise when you actually have time, will destroy any QB.  As far as the BS that it was on Zach, then explain why it was no better for Mike White, who has a quick release and fast reads.  He was crushed again and again.  That guy in Buffalo, a free runner, almost broke him in two.

Name another franchise that has seen all of it's QB's, going back to Darnold, under such constant pressure.  JD has done many good things but his offensive line work SUCKS.   His 1st 4 shots were collossal fails.  If he ever got a solid line in front of Zach, we could 100% blame him.  Zach's play was horrid, but in a league where the top QB's routinely are untouched, we are the franchise that couldn't get the basics right.

I hope the offensive lineis finally better,

 

[T0mShane]

11 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Benching Zach tore this team apart.

Wow.

[T0mShane]

10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Lmfao.  Which Jets players were pissed that poor Zach got benched?  Braxton Berrios?

The dude can’t even get invited to a weeknight showing of Wicked, but his benching tore the team apart?

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, Dunnie said:

I think that is really the only frustrating part ... There was hate before his first training camp .. really interesting.... Gotta love NY

Dunnie, it wasn’t “hate” to watch Zach Wilson BYU tape and notice that he was a smaller dude with average athleticism whose uniform was crispy white through the whole game and say “Gosh, thinking this will work in the NFL is a huge projection.” There weren’t a lot of instances where anyone saw Zach Wilson handle pass rush pressure in college, and that’s almost always the skill/talent/innate ability that makes or breaks QB success on the NFL level. As we’ve seen, Zach is terrible when pressured and lacks the instincts to deal with it. It wasn’t hate to be skeptical of Zach as a prospect. It was common sense.

[jetstream23]

JD                      Howie Roseman

Zach                  Wentz

Rodgers             Nick Foles

TBD?                  Jalen Hurts

 

Even the good GMs have misses.  The really good ones recover.

[T0mShane]

33 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Lmfao.  Which Jets players were pissed that poor Zach got benched?  Braxton Berrios?

I just unearthed this footage of an inconsolable Jets team rife with despair over the benching of Zach Wilson:

 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

JD                      Howie Roseman

Zach                  Wentz

Rodgers             Nick Foles

TBD?                  Jalen Hurts

 

Even the good GMs have misses.  The really good ones recover.

What’s wild about this is that the Eagles were allegedly desperate to come up for Zach Wilson and, failing that, were trying to swing a trade for Russell Wilson, and it was Russell Wilson who nixed it. 

[Jetsfan80]

16 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Dunnie, it wasn’t “hate” to watch Zach Wilson BYU tape and notice that he was a smaller dude with average athleticism whose uniform was crispy white through the whole game and say “Gosh, thinking this will work in the NFL is a huge projection.” There weren’t a lot of instances where anyone saw Zach Wilson handle pass rush pressure in college, and that’s almost always the skill/talent/innate ability that makes or breaks QB success on the NFL level. As we’ve seen, Zach is terrible when pressured and lacks the instincts to deal with it. It wasn’t hate to be skeptical of Zach as a prospect. It was common sense.

And any tape where he DID see pressure he looked exactly as he does now.  But the Zach stans of course blame that on LaFleur too.  

[Larz]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Fields >>>>>>> Zach.  He’s at least exciting to watch.  

I think fields is going to kill it this year. 

[RevisIsland610]

44 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

This is true. But people do not want to hear it. Benching Zach, and the incompetence of LaFleur and Saleh shielding him is the reason we missed the playoffs. He was actually 8th in the NFL in passer rating in the 4th quarter when conveniently LaFleur would actually have to get away from his "plan"

He was bad. No question but our coaching and approach towards Zach could not possibly have been worse. LaFleur and Saleh admitted that they did not adjust the offense for Zach they expected him to learn it. That boggles my mind. You have a guy that excels at the spread offense, RPO plays rolling out, attacking outside the numbers and the sideline and struggles at passes parallel to the LOS and needed improvement between the numbers. So what does LaFleur and Saleh do? They run an offense with the tightest splits in the NFL and "offense in a phone booth" where the entire offense is congested in the middle and shockingly Zach struggled.

Crap thing is that Hackett has much of the same tendencies. 

Funny thing about Zach. Change two plays and he is likely our QB1 today. If JFM does not get that roughing penalty Zach does not implode against NE and if we don't allow a punt return Zach might have won that game in overtime and his performance would have largely been forgotten. Jones was just as bad in that game yet no one seemed to care.

Benching Zach tore this team apart.

I have no faith in Saleh at all. In fact, this is maybe the least excited I have been about the Jets in quite a while. I am going to root for them with all my heart as always, but I think the Rodgers experiment is not going to work and we will be back on the coaching merry go round in February

 

Zach Wilson has not just been terrible, he has been the worst starting QB in the league the last 2 years. There is no defending him. You keep making excuses for him but the results are the same. He is simply bad and cannot process the field like an NFL QB needs to. In the 2nd game against NE Zach Wilson may have had the worst start I have ever seen a QB have and while Jones was not very good either he was much better than ZW. Wilson was 9/22 for 77 yards. Jones was 23/27 for 246. The Zach Wilson led Jets gained 2 YARDS OF OFFENSE in the 2nd half. That's embarrassing and nearly impossible to accomplish. Once Breece Hall went down and ZW couldn't just hand the ball off and watch Hall score the season was over. The fact that you think benching Zach Wilson tore this team apart proves you really don't have a clue. If he wasn't benched there would have been a mutiny because the rest of the team were fed up with his awful and incompetent play. After 2 dismal seasons behind center Zach Wilson gave the Jets no choice but to go out and spend assets and cap space on a proven QB. This is actually the most excited most Jet fans have been about this team in a very long time and rightly so. The difference in the offense is going to be night and day with Rogers behind center. It's going to be a pleasure watching a top NFL QB execute a real NFL offense for a change. 

[Green Ghost]

4 hours ago, BCJet said:

So with one OTA in the books the 2023 draft already sucks?  Sweet

I’m curious… with one OTA in the books, do you consider the Jets a serious SB contender?

I’m asking because I’m curious to see if you understand the concept of offering an opinion on a message board.

[bitonti]

3 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

In short, there is almost no chance he is going to ever start for the Jets because of a guy named Aaron Rodgers.  His 5th year contract would need to be exercised in less than a year.  

well, there is the scenario where Aaron Rodgers plays but not all 17 games, ZW lights it up in relief, and (assuming they finally make the playoffs and JD gets renewed) they exercise the 5th year option because JD wants to be right about Zach 

people are writing off Zach, but I don't think we'll ever be rid of this guy

he's their 9 million dollar cap hit backup

they will make the Zach thing work as long as JD works here - it's not like they have any better ideas. 

To play devil's advocate, the Jets could have held on to Geno and Darnold too. The national take is the Jets gave up too soon on these guys.  

I personally don't think Zach was ever a first-rounder, but no one's asking for my vote. Put yourself in JD's place. He believed in Zach in the first place enough to stake his career on him; He's probably still got a place for Zach.  

 

[RevisIsland610]

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

well, there is the scenario where Aaron Rodgers plays but not all 17 games, ZW lights it up in relief, and (assuming they finally make the playoffs and JD gets renewed) they exercise the 5th year option because JD wants to be right about Zach 

people are writing off Zach, but I don't think we'll ever be rid of this guy

he's their 9 million dollar cap hit backup

they will make the Zach thing work as long as JD works here - it's not like they have any better ideas. 

To play devil's advocate, the Jets could have held on to Geno and Darnold too. The national take is the Jets gave up too soon on these guys.  

I personally don't think Zach was ever a first-rounder, but no one's asking for my vote. Put yourself in JD's place. He believed in Zach in the first place enough to stake his career on him; He's probably still got a place for Zach.  

 

And then you woke up. ZW sucks. Also Geno didn't do anything for a decade after the Jets let him go. Darnold hasn't done much either. They are both better than ZW though. 

[Dunnie]

Isn’t it nice that this debate is now entirely academic because—God willing—Zach Wilson never sees the field again as a New York Jet? I mean, imagine we didn’t get Rodgers and they were rolling into this year with the intent of rehabilitating Wilson out from beneath the specter of Mike LaFleur’s evil-doing. We’d be having a legitimate discussion about who was going to be coaching the team next year and if/when we should start tanking for Caleb Williams. 

How do you feel about MLF leaving ... You should be broken inside it seems.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Jetsfan80]

51 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

How do you feel about MLF leaving ... You should be broken inside it seems.

LaFleur was basically a mostly meh non-factor.  Your run of the mill OC.  Much like Hackett.  OC's don't matter nearly as much as you think they do.  No one cares that LaFleur is gone except you and like 4 other people.

We've been through this for decades on JetNation and previous JetsInsider.  Blaming OC's is what basic b*tch Jets fans do.  They really don't impact much unless they're a transcendent offensive mind (Andy Reid/Sean Payton).  Sort of like NBA head coaches.  At any given time there's like 5 that matter and the rest are whatever.

My evidence?  Dozens upon dozens of QBs have been failures (like Ryan Leaf, Mark Sanchez, Joey Harrington, Josh Rosen, DeShone Kizer, etc.) and continued to be failures even after an OC change.  And meanwhile dozens of good/great/elite QBs have been awesome regardless of who the OC is. 

The most an OC can do is take a good QB and help him move up a tier.  They can't do sh*t with a bottom of the barrel QB like Zach Wilson.

[Dunnie]

LaFleur was basically a mostly meh non-factor.  Your run of the mill OC.  Much like Hackett.  OC's don't matter nearly as much as you think they do.  No one cares that LaFleur is gone except you and like 4 other people.
We've been through this for decades on JetNation and previous JetsInsider.  Blaming OC's is what basic b*tch Jets fans do.  They really don't impact much unless they're a transcendent offensive mind (Andy Reid/Sean Payton).  Sort of like NBA head coaches.  At any given time there's like 5 that matter and the rest are whatever.
My evidence?  Dozens upon dozens of QBs have been failures (like Ryan Leaf, Mark Sanchez, Joey Harrington, Josh Rosen, DeShone Kizer, etc.) and continued to be failures even after an OC change.  And meanwhile dozens of good/great/elite QBs have been awesome regardless of who the OC is. 
The most an OC can do is take a good QB and help him move up a tier.  They can't do sh*t with a bottom of the barrel QB like Zach Wilson.

There seems to be a misunderstanding between the guys that never gave Zach a shot and the guys that wants to see him one more time under a new OC and sitting behind Rodgers.... Is there anyone saying that Zach played well last year ?

I think guys just don't want to discard him just yet.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

There seems to be a misunderstanding between the guys that never gave Zach a shot and the guys that wants to see him one more time under a new OC and sitting behind Rodgers.... Is there anyone saying that Zach played well last year ?

I think guys just don't want to discard him just yet.

And I'm saying hoping that a new OC will be enough to make Zach an even passable QB in this league is foolish.  You seem to think LaFleur was at least....what.....50 % of the reason for his failure?  30 %?  The reality is more like 5 % dude.

[Jet Nut]

On 6/3/2023 at 4:40 PM, rangerous said:

And the niners wouldn’t have paired Zach with a first time coach set like saleh and milfy.  I don’t think the impact of milfy can be overstated.

You mean the death of Knapp

[Jet Nut]

9 hours ago, LIJetsFan said:

Hate is too strong a word.  Zach singlehandedly sunk our 2022 season.  With our top 5-7 defense and our otherwise pretty good roster offense wise, if we simply had a top 25 QB we'd have been in the post season. 

Zach was rated the 39th best (worse) QB.  For a #2 pick that is a disaster.  If you like blaming the OC, have at it but the OC wasn't the one who was dirting passes.  So, hate, no, severely disappointed, yes.    

He wasn’t good but single-handedly cost the Jets their season while everyone’s favorite was 1-3.  The same record as Flacco, who the same fans call garbage

[Dunnie]

9 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

We struck out on him, how can you argue we didn’t.  See @Jetsfan80 post that explains the why. In short, there is almost no chance he is going to ever start for the Jets because of a guy named Aaron Rodgers.  His 5th year contract would need to be exercised in less than a year.  

Even if we got 1 year out of him, that’s a big strikeout for the #2 pick in the draft.

I hope that somehow he breaks the probability tree and proves to be our QB of the future somewhere along the way but the odds of that are incredibly low.

 

This is basically how i feel ... I'd like to see him get a swansong of a shot ... but I have to agree ... the odds are basically almost slot machine like.

[Dunnie]

13 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And I'm saying hoping that a new OC will be enough to make Zach an even passable QB in this league is foolish.  You seem to think LaFleur was at least....what.....50 % of the reason for his failure?  30 %?  The reality is more like 5 % dude.

all im saying is that MLF didnt help .. and I'd like to see the kid get one more shot after sitting.

[Hal N of Provo]

8 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Dunnie, it wasn’t “hate” to watch Zach Wilson BYU tape and notice that he was a smaller dude with average athleticism whose uniform was crispy white through the whole game and say “Gosh, thinking this will work in the NFL is a huge projection.” There weren’t a lot of instances where anyone saw Zach Wilson handle pass rush pressure in college, and that’s almost always the skill/talent/innate ability that makes or breaks QB success on the NFL level. As we’ve seen, Zach is terrible when pressured and lacks the instincts to deal with it. It wasn’t hate to be skeptical of Zach as a prospect. It was common sense.

 

7 hours ago, T0mShane said:

What’s wild about this is that the Eagles were allegedly desperate to come up for Zach Wilson and, failing that, were trying to swing a trade for Russell Wilson, and it was Russell Wilson who nixed it. 

If post 1 is true why did the niners and Eagles also want Zach? 

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, Dunnie said:

How do you feel about MLF leaving ... You should be broken inside it seems.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

You guys trying to hang Zach Wilson around Mike LaFleur’s neck are operating in complete and total defiance of every shred of available evidence.

[T0mShane]

21 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

 

If post 1 is true why did the niners and Eagles also want Zach? 

For the same reason the Niners traded three firsts for Lance and the Eagles tried to trade multiple firsts for Russell Wilson: they all **** up. Regrettably, it’s the Jets holding the bag in this instance.

[Beerfish]

Can't wait till Douglas wins more than 7 games or makes the playoffs!

[Dunnie]

Can't wait till Douglas wins more than 7 games or makes the playoffs!

... no argument here ...

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[jgb]

18 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Saying we "struck out" on Zach is just such a lazy take. But Jets fans just hate Zach and have from before he even took a snap so why would anyone see the other factors at work.

Accuses others of “lazy” takes.

Then brands all displeasure of a non-performing player as “hate.”