Cimini: Locker room is grumbling about Wilson, team is close to imploding

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

12 hours ago, derp said:

We’ll see how it plays out, but I think an important layer here is that that usually this happens for the Jets when the draft doesn’t line up with needs and this year the tippy top of the draft is all franchise cornerstone type offensive players.

And if the morale is truly as bad as it seems, it’s a great time for them to reset and pitch GM and HC candidates on taking over a roster with a top five pick, Garrett Wilson, Breece Hall, AVT, Sauce, Q, a bunch of other nice defensive pieces.

Rodgers is either a fly in the ointment there or helps really sell it. He’s an asset if he steps into the right role.

I don’t know if I’ve pieced all of this together for myself before, but I believe that at least to some extent the Jets continue to have bad coaches and GM’s because the job always sucks by the time they fire someone so they consistently pull in the third to sixth best candidate any given cycle - and surprisingly that guy doesn’t move the needle in a positive way. Then he fails and the merry go round continues.

I’d love for them to not give these guys every last inch of leeway to prove without a shadow of the doubt that they can’t do the job. This team is completely reeling, it falls on both to some extent, and they’ve made mistakes before. Cut bait while you can still sell the jobs and not after they’ve spent multiple years destroying future assets trying to get off the hot seat.

I’d love to see what happens if they had a top 5 pick. Rodgers would probably have the most influence than anyone in that situation. And I think he would say give these guys another shot. 
Only way that tune would change, maybe, is if those sideline arguments continue and locker room truly breaks. Rodgers would then be for pro-firing Saleh. 

[derp]

18 minutes ago, doitny said:

i dont think you will get a good HC or GM candidate as long as Rodgers is here. he is only here for one year and then hes gone. but for that one year he is going to be the GM. no good HC or GM is going to want to have Rodgers have so much say. look how it killed us this year. 

plus Rodgers is going to want Hackett to stay. so your going to force a new HC to take Hackett? 

or worst case scenario is Rodgers forces Woody to hire Hackett as HC.

i think everyone stays until Rodgers goes. and that i think will be best for us.

I said Rodgers is a fly in the ointment or helps sell it.

Your scenario is the fly in the ointment one.

If ownership pulls him aside, asks him to look at how bad the season’s gone, and consider how much better his chances of winning are if he puts a better group around him - maybe he figures it out and buys in.

I don’t know that it’s likely, but if this season goes south and you ask someone to take an honest look at the group it’s pretty obvious that they’re not good enough, and I’d think someone who wants to win would be open to it being better.

And honestly if be wants to pull the strings and isn’t going to be realistic about how this team can be successful, I’m okay with him retiring.

[derp]

24 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’m torn because while I secretly think moving on from Saleh and Rodgers would provide the least catastrophic path forward, I don’t want to end up with a top three pick because I’ve banned myself from having opinions on draft-eligible quarterbacks and it’d freeze me out of participating in our draft content

You can just come to over to the non first overall top five overall quarterbacks almost always bust dark side with me and just focus on Harrison and Fashanu.

Though I think Maye could be an exception there, so that’s more a guideline than a rule.

[doitny]

22 minutes ago, derp said:

I said Rodgers is a fly in the ointment or helps sell it.

Your scenario is the fly in the ointment one.

If ownership pulls him aside, asks him to look at how bad the season’s gone, and consider how much better his chances of winning are if he puts a better group around him - maybe he figures it out and buys in.

I don’t know that it’s likely, but if this season goes south and you ask someone to take an honest look at the group it’s pretty obvious that they’re not good enough, and I’d think someone who wants to win would be open to it being better.

And honestly if be wants to pull the strings and isn’t going to be realistic about how this team can be successful, I’m okay with him retiring.

Rodgers is not retiring. JD pushed the bulk of his money to 2024 so we defiantly would get 2 years from him.

no matter how Rodgers sells it, you know hes the boss and is going to get his way. the elephant in the room is Hackett. i dont know how you sell a new HC to take him. yes you will get somebody, but the best guys wont take this job being forced a OC. 

you know Rodgers is sitting home right now saying if he was here the locker room would be fine. and it probably would be cause we would be scoring more and wining more games. 

at the most important position in all of sports, we have the worst in history. if Rodgers was here we are good enough. 

the biggest problem is the offense and Rodgers would fix that. Zach is in the top 5 in time to throw so the OL which gets a bad rap is doing good on passing downs. 

the only problem with Saleh and JD is that they stuck with Zach. you said if Rodgers want to win he would want it better? well im sure he thinks it will be better when he gets back. 

 

[Irish Jet]

Remember when Moore was chased out of here by Jets fans who were calling him a selfish a$$hole for speaking out about the worst QB in football?

Well prepare to do that again. 

[jeremy2020]

On 9/27/2023 at 1:12 PM, Jet_Engine1 said:

The Patriots weren't loading the box, daring Zach to throw? Really? Hmm.

 

I guess the analysts, film, commentators, and people at the game are all lying to me...

Don't forget the actual footage of the plays

[Integrity28]

On 9/28/2023 at 9:41 PM, Zachtomims47 said:

I’d love to see what happens if they had a top 5 pick. Rodgers would probably have the most influence than anyone in that situation. And I think he would say give these guys another shot. 
Only way that tune would change, maybe, is if those sideline arguments continue and locker room truly breaks. Rodgers would then be for pro-firing Saleh. 

Yeah, I honestly think Rodgers job this year is to evaluate the coaches and GM that brought him here. I genuinely believe if he doesn’t like what he sees they are gone.

He’s got the most experience and perspective in the room, and it’s not close.

[playtowinthegame]

4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Yeah, I honestly think Rodgers job this year is to evaluate the coaches and GM that brought him here. I genuinely believe if he doesn’t like what he sees they are gone.

He’s got the most experience and perspective in the room, and it’s not close.

Will our GM Aaron Rodgers fire Hackett?

[Integrity28]

13 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Will our GM Aaron Rodgers fire Hackett?

Nah, Hackett is safe. It’s going to be a mess. 100% guaranteed.

[playtowinthegame]

7 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Nah, Hackett is safe. It’s going to be a mess. 100% guaranteed.

 

I feel bad for the season ticket holders. 

[TuscanyTile2]

On 9/28/2023 at 9:41 PM, Zachtomims47 said:

I’d love to see what happens if they had a top 5 pick. Rodgers would probably have the most influence than anyone in that situation. And I think he would say give these guys another shot. 
Only way that tune would change, maybe, is if those sideline arguments continue and locker room truly breaks. Rodgers would then be for pro-firing Saleh. 

If we have a shot at a FQB in the draft, we have to take it, regardless of whether or not it upsets AR8.   And if we pick top 5, I think JD should use all ammunition possible to trade up if that's a possibility.  And I mean that anyone is on the table.  Sauce, GW, Breece, QW.  I don't care.  If you have a shot at a FQB, you have to pursue it.

[T0mShane]

Imagine how painful it is to play with Zach Wilson and then find yourself getting blamed for Zach Wilson’s many failings. 

 

[FidelioJet]

This is almost entirely on Joe Douglas.  

Joe Must Go.

[Rich Thornburgh]

16 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

If we have a shot at a FQB in the draft, we have to take it, regardless of whether or not it upsets AR8.   And if we pick top 5, I think JD should use all ammunition possible to trade up if that's a possibility.  And I mean that anyone is on the table.  Sauce, GW, Breece, QW.  I don't care.  If you have a shot at a FQB, you have to pursue it.

Rodgers is not playing for us next season. Enough with making personnel decisions just to appease him.  

[Rich Thornburgh]

On 9/29/2023 at 4:35 AM, doitny said:

Rodgers is not retiring. JD pushed the bulk of his money to 2024 so we defiantly would get 2 years from him.

no matter how Rodgers sells it, you know hes the boss and is going to get his way. the elephant in the room is Hackett. i dont know how you sell a new HC to take him. yes you will get somebody, but the best guys wont take this job being forced a OC. 

you know Rodgers is sitting home right now saying if he was here the locker room would be fine. and it probably would be cause we would be scoring more and wining more games. 

at the most important position in all of sports, we have the worst in history. if Rodgers was here we are good enough. 

the biggest problem is the offense and Rodgers would fix that. Zach is in the top 5 in time to throw so the OL which gets a bad rap is doing good on passing downs. 

the only problem with Saleh and JD is that they stuck with Zach. you said if Rodgers want to win he would want it better? well im sure he thinks it will be better when he gets back. 

 

The OL got better once Brown got benched.  Zach could get 10 minutes to throw he will either miss wide open guys or run backwards 

 

And Aaron Rodgers is not going to be a jet next September 

[Barton]

That whole 5 hour meeting last year between Saleh/JD/Woody/front office where it caused Saleh to be late to his media appointment was just beyond weird. Thats where Mike White became the starter and they gave him about an inch of rope to hang on to. 

And they needed 5 hours for that? It should have been 5 minutes. That alone tells you there are differences in opinions between ownership, front office and the coaching staff. Something is obviously wrong here. IMO, the coaching staff does not want Wilson starting. And we know the players dont. 

 

[Sammybighead]

22 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

If we have a shot at a FQB in the draft, we have to take it, regardless of whether or not it upsets AR8.   And if we pick top 5, I think JD should use all ammunition possible to trade up if that's a possibility.  And I mean that anyone is on the table.  Sauce, GW, Breece, QW.  I don't care.  If you have a shot at a FQB, you have to pursue it.

I hear you. I understand your point. I disagree. 

They made promises to Rodgers. He gave up 30M because he was assured he'd have a shot to win it all here. They owe him that much as human beings. If they pull the rug from under him and don't use every resource to help win a title, he may just retire (or at the very least be really pissed off). Considering he's the only thing holding this team together at this point, you don't want to risk losing him.

If we have a top 5 pick, I'm trading down and recouping a ton of assets. Get some immediate oline help and continue to build the roster so when Rodgers hangs em up, the next rookie qb will actually walk into an amazing situation. If you want to change the narrative, someone has to break the cycle. Don't draft the shiny new qb until you have a team ready to support him.

[Dunnie]

That whole 5 hour meeting last year between Saleh/JD/Woody/front office where it caused Saleh to be late to his media appointment was just beyond weird. Thats where Mike White became the starter and they gave him about an inch of rope to hang on to. 
And they needed 5 hours for that? It should have been 5 minutes. That alone tells you there are differences in opinions between ownership, front office and the coaching staff. Something is obviously wrong here. IMO, the coaching staff does not want Wilson starting. And we know the players dont. 
 

Tell me ... how far is the end of the earth ? ... and where I can locate the studio they shot the 69 moon landing in.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Sammybighead]

5 hours ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

Rodgers is not playing for us next season. Enough with making personnel decisions just to appease him.  

If Rodgers retires, I'm still not using a 1st on a qb unless it's caleb williams which means we need the #1 pick. Enough with these projections when picking that high. Give me a clear cut generational qb in the top 5 or trade down and build a juggernaut team.

[kevinc855]

2 minutes ago, Sammybighead said:

If Rodgers retires, I'm still not using a 1st on a qb unless it's caleb williams which means we need the #1 pick. Enough with these projections when picking that high. Give me a clear cut generational qb in the top 5 or trade down and build a juggernaut team.

We aren’t getting Caleb Williams. Not a chance. If we draft a qb in the first round it’s prob the 4 rated guy tops 

[Lith]

According to Dianna Russini, unless Zach Wilson clicks with the offense tonight and plays well, it's apparent his “time as the starter could be closing out.”

Multiple Jets sources told Russini: "Something needs to change, or it's going to cost jobs."

On Robert Saleh and Joe Douglas:  “Woody Johnson made no guarantees about Robert Saleh and Joe Douglas’ status before or after the Aaron Rodgers injury.”

[Barton]

10 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Tell me ... how far is the end of the earth ? ... and where I can locate the studio they shot the 69 moon landing in.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

It took 5 hours because they all agreed, right?

[Matt39]

5 minutes ago, Barton said:

It took 5 hours because they all agreed, right?

Starting Flacco to begin the year was obviously deliberate to placate Wilson and his camp. Also of note- Wilson being granted permission to watch preseason games from a luxury suite:

 

[doitny]

8 minutes ago, Lith said:

On Robert Saleh and Joe Douglas:  “Woody Johnson made no guarantees about Robert Saleh and Joe Douglas’ status before or after the Aaron Rodgers injury.”

well if this is true they are the biggest idiots in the world for not bringing in somebody the day after Rodgers got hurt. that guy would have been ready to start vs the Pats.

[Sammybighead]

18 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

We aren’t getting Caleb Williams. Not a chance. If we draft a qb in the first round it’s prob the 4 rated guy tops 

Agree. Then don't draft a qb. Trade down and build around Rodgers.

Guys, woody isn't gonna risk pissing off Rodgers. He sold A TON of season tickets on the back of Rodgers. They even made a freaking OJD episode out of it. If you don't think woody feels tremendous pressure to deliver a good product this year, and a winner soon, you're delusional. 

[doitny]

22 minutes ago, Sammybighead said:

I hear you. I understand your point. I disagree. 

They made promises to Rodgers. He gave up 30M because he was assured he'd have a shot to win it all here. They owe him that much as human beings. If they pull the rug from under him and don't use every resource to help win a title, he may just retire (or at the very least be really pissed off). Considering he's the only thing holding this team together at this point, you don't want to risk losing him.

If we have a top 5 pick, I'm trading down and recouping a ton of assets. Get some immediate oline help and continue to build the roster so when Rodgers hangs em up, the next rookie qb will actually walk into an amazing situation. If you want to change the narrative, someone has to break the cycle. Don't draft the shiny new qb until you have a team ready to support him.

we have a good enough team to support a new QB. if you dont draft one with a top 5 pick next year where are you getting a QB? in 2025 Rodgers should win enough games to put us no where near top 5 or any top QBs coming out.

plus if you kick the new QB can down the road your wasting years of GW and Sause. in 2025 they will be in there 4th yr. both will get 5th year extensions for 2026 but you want to have a future QB already here or neither of them especially GW will want to be here. there is no way he is going to stick around with a rookie QB and we all know this team no matter who is HC or GM will give a new drafted QB at least 3 years no matter how bad he is. 

[Matt39]

5 minutes ago, Sammybighead said:

Agree. Then don't draft a qb. Trade down and build around Rodgers.

Guys, woody isn't gonna risk pissing off Rodgers. He sold A TON of season tickets on the back of Rodgers. They even made a freaking OJD episode out of it. If you don't think woody feels tremendous pressure to deliver a good product this year, and a winner soon, you're delusional. 

He feels none of this pressure. 

[Barry McCockinner]

10 minutes ago, Sammybighead said:

Agree. Then don't draft a qb. Trade down and build around Rodgers.

Guys, woody isn't gonna risk pissing off Rodgers. He sold A TON of season tickets on the back of Rodgers. They even made a freaking OJD episode out of it. If you don't think woody feels tremendous pressure to deliver a good product this year, and a winner soon, you're delusional. 

Rodgers will be 40 to start next season he isn't going to be around for long. He's been around long enough to be a grown up and understand how the NFL works. I don't agree with the belief that us taking a first round QB is going to piss him off. Besides, the last time he was pissed off by his team taking a 1st round QB he just went out and won MVP.

If we don't take a QB next year and Rodgers is healthy when are we taking a QB? We're probably a playoff team w/him starting the whole season ...

[T0mShane]

56 minutes ago, Barton said:

That whole 5 hour meeting last year between Saleh/JD/Woody/front office where it caused Saleh to be late to his media appointment was just beyond weird. Thats where Mike White became the starter and they gave him about an inch of rope to hang on to. 

And they needed 5 hours for that? It should have been 5 minutes. That alone tells you there are differences in opinions between ownership, front office and the coaching staff. Something is obviously wrong here. IMO, the coaching staff does not want Wilson starting. And we know the players dont. 

 

The great unanswered question with this regime is who amongst them wants to keep pushing Zach out there?
 

—I do not think it’s Saleh, because Saleh was making Zach a healthy scratch at the end of last year. I believe Saleh is just falling on the sword because he’s a company man, even though he’s ruining his career. Reminds me very much of the way Bowles would cover up for Maccagnan with Darnold. Saleh would do will to flip a table at some point and cover his own ass, presuming Zach is being forced upon him. 
 

—Is it Douglas? Dan Hanzus of the NFLN is a huge Jets fan and he’s “heard” that Zach Wilson is Douglas’ white whale, and that Douglas is the one who can’t let go. But why? Zach is murdering the 52 other guys on the roster, and making every coach look like dumbasses. Why would the GM compromise everything else for one bad player? 
 

—It HAS TO BE Woody. I do not believe Woody is cheap, per se, but I do believe that Woody is much more comfortable talking to accountants than he is coaches. The Jets have invested a ton of money into QBs during his time as owner, and I do think Woody knows what that number is when it comes to Zach Wilson and Aaron Rodgers. I could absolutely see Woody throwing that number in Douglas’ face in the event Douglas comes, hat in hand, to ask for another $7(?) million in cash to buy Matt Ryan out of his TV contract. Add to it that I think Woody just like the idea of Zach Wilson working out here so he can parade him around town to meet and greets and to the RNC next year to show him off. End of the day, I could see Woody being *very* embittered by Zach flaming out here and he ends up firing Saleh and his staff for it, regardless of how Rodgers feels about it. 

[TuscanyTile2]

6 hours ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

Rodgers is not playing for us next season. Enough with making personnel decisions just to appease him.  

You really don't think so?  He said he was going to.  You think that's an act (or maybe he won't be healthy enough)?

[Lith]

11 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The great unanswered question with this regime is who amongst them wants to keep pushing Zach out there?
 

—I do not think it’s Saleh, because Saleh was making Zach a healthy scratch at the end of last year. I believe Saleh is just falling on the sword because he’s a company man, even though he’s ruining his career. Reminds me very much of the way Bowles would cover up for Maccagnan with Darnold. Saleh would do will to flip a table at some point and cover his own ass, presuming Zach is being forced upon him. 
 

—Is it Douglas? Dan Hanzus of the NFLN is a huge Jets fan and he’s “heard” that Zach Wilson is Douglas’ white whale, and that Douglas is the one who can’t let go. But why? Zach is murdering the 52 other guys on the roster, and making every coach look like dumbasses. Why would the GM compromise everything else for one bad player? 
 

—It HAS TO BE Woody. I do not believe Woody is cheap, per se, but I do believe that Woody is much more comfortable talking to accountants than he is coaches. The Jets have invested a ton of money into QBs during his time as owner, and I do think Woody knows what that number is when it comes to Zach Wilson and Aaron Rodgers. I could absolutely see Woody throwing that number in Douglas’ face in the event Douglas comes, hat in hand, to ask for another $7(?) million in cash to buy Matt Ryan out of his TV contract. Add to it that I think Woody just like the idea of Zach Wilson working out here so he can parade him around town to meet and greets and to the RNC next year to show him off. End of the day, I could see Woody being *very* embittered by Zach flaming out here and he ends up firing Saleh and his staff for it, regardless of how Rodgers feels about it. 

I agree that I don't think it is Saleh.  He benched Zach for White.  And even benched him for Streveler.  I can't believe that he wants to put WIlson out there, but for some reason, he has no option.

It could be as simple as a gross miscalculation by the GM.  Once Rodgers was signed, we should have moved Zach.  If the Niners could get a day 3 pick for Lance, we probably could have gotten one for Zach.  Someone takes on his remaining salary and we use that cash to bring in a legit back up.  Instead we tried to have it both ways.  Give Zach a chance to reset while trying to win it all with AR.  What we did not count on was injury week 1 forcing Zach right back into action. 

Should have let someone else try to resuscitate Zach's career while we moved on with a Minshew/Brissett type back up.  Would have been better for both player and team had we parted ways.

[Jetsfan80]

29 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The great unanswered question with this regime is who amongst them wants to keep pushing Zach out there?
 

—I do not think it’s Saleh, because Saleh was making Zach a healthy scratch at the end of last year. I believe Saleh is just falling on the sword because he’s a company man, even though he’s ruining his career. Reminds me very much of the way Bowles would cover up for Maccagnan with Darnold. Saleh would do will to flip a table at some point and cover his own ass, presuming Zach is being forced upon him. 
 

—Is it Douglas? Dan Hanzus of the NFLN is a huge Jets fan and he’s “heard” that Zach Wilson is Douglas’ white whale, and that Douglas is the one who can’t let go. But why? Zach is murdering the 52 other guys on the roster, and making every coach look like dumbasses. Why would the GM compromise everything else for one bad player? 
 

—It HAS TO BE Woody. I do not believe Woody is cheap, per se, but I do believe that Woody is much more comfortable talking to accountants than he is coaches. The Jets have invested a ton of money into QBs during his time as owner, and I do think Woody knows what that number is when it comes to Zach Wilson and Aaron Rodgers. I could absolutely see Woody throwing that number in Douglas’ face in the event Douglas comes, hat in hand, to ask for another $7(?) million in cash to buy Matt Ryan out of his TV contract. Add to it that I think Woody just like the idea of Zach Wilson working out here so he can parade him around town to meet and greets and to the RNC next year to show him off. End of the day, I could see Woody being *very* embittered by Zach flaming out here and he ends up firing Saleh and his staff for it, regardless of how Rodgers feels about it. 

If this is true….Why the f**k can’t Woody Johnson stop f**king meddling.

Joe Douglas sucks but he’s sadly the best GM you’re ever going to have.  Let him do the job.  Give him the money to do it and GTFO of the way.  FFS.

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, Lith said:

I agree that I don't think it is Saleh.  He benched Zach for White.  And even benched him for Streveler.  I can't believe that he wants to put WIlson out there, but for some reason, he has no option.

It could be as simple as a gross miscalculation by the GM.  Once Rodgers was signed, we should have moved Zach.  If the Niners could get a day 3 pick for Lance, we probably could have gotten one for Zach.  Someone takes on his remaining salary and we use that cash to bring in a legit back up.  Instead we tried to have it both ways.  Give Zach a chance to reset while trying to win it all with AR.  What we did not count on was injury week 1 forcing Zach right back into action. 

Should have let someone else try to resuscitate Zach's career while we moved on with a Minshew/Brissett type back up.  Would have been better for both player and team had we parted ways.

I don’t think they wanted to eat the money on Zach ($20 mil, iirc) and—I’m guessing—they didn’t want to agitate Rodgers by bringing in anyone viable behind him. Rodger loved having no-talent sycophants on the bench backing him up in Green Bay—Kurt Benkert, Danny Etling, etc. Zach fit that mold. 

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

I don’t think they wanted to eat the money on Zach ($20 mil, iirc) and—I’m guessing—they didn’t want to agitate Rodgers by bringing in anyone viable behind him. Rodger loved having no-talent sycophants on the bench backing him up in Green Bay—Kurt Benkert, Danny Etling, etc. Zach fit that mold. 

More about the money this year.  My guess is that they hoped they could hide wilson for one year and then trade him, draft another guy to sit behind rodgers for a year and move on.  Of course this plan backfired.  But now it gives them that 1st rounder back.  But in continuation of qb drafting debates, my prediction is that they go OL in round 1 and take more of a developmental guy in the 3rd.

[Warfish]

If Zach once again puts up a 32nd-ranked type performance today, he simply must be benched again, this time for good.

I don't care if the f'ing ballboy has to play QB next week, this insanity of throwing Zach out week after week and him putting up league-worst play and production week after week simply cannot be permitted to continue.

Hell, it'd be a mercy benching.  I don't know Zach Wilson, he could be a scumbag for all I know, but even he doesn't deserve this historical embarrassment the Jets are creating here, where he will go down in history as a top 5 all-time NFL bust QB, one of the worst to ever play this game in the modern era.