Someone offer some hope on the 2024 OL

[Claymation]

8 minutes ago, PepPep said:

People need to stop acting like we will have a shot at Alt. He is going top 5, maybe he slides to 8??? unlikely.  The Jets will be selecting in the early teens. We need to be thinking about Fuaga, Latham and Mims as our options at OT. 

I'm a believer after watching the Texans game. We will lose to the fins and win 2 of our last 3 games ending the season with a 7-10 record. This is about as much as I can 'believe'. But this will boot us out of any chance for Alt, Fashanu, a top 2 QB, or Harrison. And I think we should assume Nabers will be off the board as well. And guys like Daniels and Bowers might also be gone. 

Fashanu is better and I believe QBs will go early and often.

[THE BARON]

Brick, Alan Faneca, Nick Mangold, Brandon Moore, Damien Woody

[Joe W. Namath]

Jumbo Elliot, Todd Burger, Kevin Mawae, Matt O'Dwyer, Jason Fabini

[Ecuadorian Jet]

13 hours ago, Maynard13 said:

Put together a OL for JD because he’s absolutely horrific at it. It has to be rebuilt and that includes the subs. Thus far, we have Tippman at Center and ABT will be back at G. Do we resign Becton, McGovern, is Lake still on contract? Who do we draft? Who do we sign that’s available in FA? Give the OL coaching job to Obi Wan Kinobe - he’s our only hope. 

forget AVT, nice likeable guy, but clearly his body can't handle it....we have Tippman...that's it

[carlito1171]

53 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Albert Breer ⁦‪@AlbertBreer‬⁩

I've felt this way for a while, and I think it's really showing up today: The NFL has an offensive line issue. All the reductions in practice time and contact have wreaked havoc on teams ability to develop OL depth, and that's made injuries catostrophic.

It's a real problem.

12/10/23, 7:17 PM

 

I’d also add the lack of practice time & contact have added to the OL injuries throughout the league. Can’t expect 330 lb guys bodies to go from basically jogging in practice to hitting at 100+mph on Sundays. 

It's been a problem for years but the lack of development in college and less practice/contact time in the NFL is starting to catch up and making it a league wide issue

[Ecuadorian Jet]

You fix it by trading down this year. 

[PepPep]

49 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Fashanu is better and I believe QBs will go early and often.

Top two QBs will probably go #1 and #2. Harrison will probably go #3. Fashanu will most likely go #4. You want to tell me Alt slides to the Jets?? No way. They would have to lose out and get very lucky with Alt sliding AND other teams ahead of them winning games. I don't see Alt sliding past 8. But he will probably go top 5. A lot has to happen for the Jets just to have a chance at him, and if they win one more game, forget about it. 

[Maynard13]

1 hour ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

forget AVT, nice likeable guy, but clearly his body can't handle it....we have Tippman...that's it

I'd rather forget you. Thats it.

[BCJet]

It seems like it will be possible for us to draft an OT in the first round, even if we are picking around 13-16.  I would prefer we draft a QB but after reading the jetsxfactor article on Becton, I cant see him being here in 2024 and if he is not here, we have too many OL holes to fill.

The key to me, is getting Carter Warren on the field for as many remaining games as possible at RT.  Mitchell has been so bad, that we simply cant trust him as the starter at RT.  I agree with most that AVT should remain at Guard so if we can have warren show enough to hold down RT, then that really alllows JD to have some flexibility but its gonna be minimal since the dearth of OL talent is a real thing meaning it will be VERY hard to find someone in free agency unless you want a mid-tier player like Jonah Williams

[JayKwaz]

Becton looked like our worst lineman against Texans, let him walk.

[Maynard13]

1 hour ago, THE BARON said:

LT - JOE ALT or who ever they draft with their 1st rounder

LG - I dont know.  Camp fight

C- Tippmann and his glorious head of hair

RG - AVT or FA/Draft

RT - BECTON or FA/Draft

OR we trade back a bit and get an extra 2nd rounder which I implore JD to do and grab QB Daniels in round 1. Another option on the OL is franchise Becton at LT, draft a Guard in round 2 - some good ones there as well OR a Tackle - Morgan (Arizona). JD can either sign a T or G in FA or both as we need quality depth as well.  Lt Becton  - LG ? draft or FA - C Tippman - RG  AVT - RT draft or FA

[Maynard13]

3 hours ago, rangerous said:

That’s pretty silly.  The issue has been the injuries not the quality of the players.  If AVT can stay healthy and they pick up a top guard and tackle this oline will do well.  They just have to play together and not keep getting shuffled around.

No what's silly is you are not looking at what a terrible job JD has done in developing a sustainable OL. Yeah injuries happen. All teams go through it but JD had reached for some terrible stiffs for the OL since becoming GM.  His FA starters/depth and draft choices for depth on the OL have been nauseating.  

[THE BARON]

4 minutes ago, Maynard13 said:

OR we trade back a bit and get an extra 2nd rounder which I implore JD to do and grab QB Daniels in round 1. Another option on the OL is franchise Becton at LT, draft a Guard in round 2 - some good ones there as well OR a Tackle - Morgan (Arizona). JD can either sign a T or G in FA or both as we need quality depth as well.  Lt Becton  - LG ? draft or FA - C Tippman - RG  AVT - RT draft or FA

I would be OK with trading back if Joe Alt is off the board when the Jets pick.  If he is there, though, it would be a monumental mistake to pass up on it. 

[rangerous]

4 minutes ago, Maynard13 said:

No what's silly is you are not looking at what a terrible job JD has done in developing a sustainable OL. Yeah injuries happen. All teams go through it but JD had reached for some terrible stiffs for the OL since becoming GM.  His FA starters/depth and draft choices for depth on the OL have been nauseating.  

Yeah, I guess Douglas was the reason for all of the injuries.

[Maynard13]

1 minute ago, THE BARON said:

I would be OK with trading back if Joe Alt is off the board when the Jets pick.  If he is there, though, it would be a monumental mistake to pass up on it. 

He is a monster BUT how do you pass up on a guy like Daniels when with some shake n bake you trade back and get your QB for the near future.  Zach is NOT the answer. Rodgers is here maybe 2 years.  We are probably not going to be in  a position to pick this high any time soon.  there are some good tackles and guards in this draft that can slide right in to start on the OL in round 2. 

[Maynard13]

1 minute ago, rangerous said:

Yeah, I guess Douglas was the reason for all of the injuries.

Feeny Ughhh, McGovern Blah, Brown LOL, Mitchell Yuk, etc etc etc  Fort a guy who supoposedly knows OL, he's not a very good OL evaluator.

[Green Truth]

2 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

T*I*P*P*Y to RG?  He is our starting center for the next decade plus.  Hes the next Kevin Mawae.

Its not even a thought to play him anywhere but C moving forward.

He plays where he is needed to make the line the best it could be, Captain.

[THE BARON]

37 minutes ago, Maynard13 said:

He is a monster BUT how do you pass up on a guy like Daniels when with some shake n bake you trade back and get your QB for the near future.  Zach is NOT the answer. Rodgers is here maybe 2 years.  We are probably not going to be in  a position to pick this high any time soon.  there are some good tackles and guards in this draft that can slide right in to start on the OL in round 2. 

I dig.  For myself, I don't really like any of the QB prospects for 2024.  I'd prefer to wait until 2025 for the QB. 

[#27TheDominator]

46 minutes ago, Maynard13 said:

He is a monster BUT how do you pass up on a guy like Daniels when with some shake n bake you trade back and get your QB for the near future.  Zach is NOT the answer. Rodgers is here maybe 2 years.  We are probably not going to be in  a position to pick this high any time soon.  there are some good tackles and guards in this draft that can slide right in to start on the OL in round 2. 

That's cool.  I wonder if the Packers will pick the right one cause they have our 2nd 

[AFJF]

15 hours ago, Maynard13 said:

Put together a OL for JD because he’s absolutely horrific at it. It has to be rebuilt and that includes the subs. Thus far, we have Tippman at Center and ABT will be back at G. Do we resign Becton, McGovern, is Lake still on contract? Who do we draft? Who do we sign that’s available in FA? Give the OL coaching job to Obi Wan Kinobe - he’s our only hope. 

And let's be real here.  What has to happen is Douglas needs to keep doing what he's doing in finding high level starters (Becton, AVT, Tippmann) and they need to stay on the damn field.

I'd imagine they take another OL early on this year and I assume that like Becton, AVT and Tippmann he'll be a very good player.  But will he avoid the trainer's room?  We'll see.

[NYJCAP2]

Anyone with PFF want to post Laken Tomlinson's profile from this year please?

95% of you don’t have him in your plans, yet that will cost anywhere from $6-10M in dead money.

[Sperm Edwards]

46 minutes ago, Maynard13 said:

Feeny Ughhh, McGovern Blah, Brown LOL, Mitchell Yuk, etc etc etc  Fort a guy who supoposedly knows OL, he's not a very good OL evaluator.

Mitchell...meh, most draft picks don't succeed, let alone day 3 tackles which has probably a 10% hit rate (maybe less). 

McGovern was widely considered the best center on the market when he signed here. Teams don't tend to let great ones go: they're not a dime a dozen, but they're so cheap (relative to other good starting OL positions) they never lose good ones to FA unless they already have someone they like better for way less money. Really not unlike Tomlinson, who was coming to the Jets running the same offense he was in in San Fran. 

Feeney sucks was supposed to be just a backup. He'd started the prior 3 seasons in SD, but the goal was to have him used sparingly not starting. I'm not so annoyed at the original signing so much as re-signing him.

He picked Fant from relative obscurity. Moses was just a numbers game because he wasn't getting guaranteed a starting job - which tackle-needy Baltimore did guarantee him - with Becton believed to be returning from a fluke injury and Fant coming off a far better season than was Moses. Then Fant wasn't healthy basically that whole next season and Becton missed the year entirely. Bad timing, what can you do. 

He had a mid-cost relative success who then up and retired on the team in August - like Corey Davis just did - in Alex Lewis.

Douglas had other misses as well, no doubt. He's certainly no OL savant, but there are injuries all over the league. Just not this many on one OL this many years in a row.

Also I wonder how much worse everyone looks with some second-rate OL coaching. Brandon Moore was previously meh, and Matt Slauson was a late pick nothing, until Bill Callahan became the Jets' OLC. Easy to forget years later, but for all his talent and ironman status Ferguson was just ok and tbh a relative disappointment for a #4 overall pick, too, until Callahan came here to coach him in '08. There are so many teams with 1-2 backup level talent guys starting on their OL, and they don't see as much jailbreak pressure from someone whiffing or simply unblocked like they're purposely clearing a path. 

[varjet]

• JD’s track record on FA OL is not good.  We could not sign Joe Thuney-that is now we ended up drafting AVT.  Assuming we are going to fill an OL hole through FA is very aspirational. 
• The Jets will end up reaching for a RT in rd 1.  they still need WR, but you can get those in FA.  Sort of. 
• I think the call this year is to try and trade 2025 picks for 2024 picks.  Put the chips on the table. 

[FidelioJet]

I wouldn't count on it.

Joe Douglas is lost. 

[Sperm Edwards]

18 minutes ago, AFJF said:

And let's be real here.  What has to happen is Douglas needs to keep doing what he's doing in finding high level starters (Becton, AVT, Tippmann) and they need to stay on the damn field.

I'd imagine they take another OL early on this year and I assume that like Becton, AVT and Tippmann he'll be a very good player.  But will he avoid the trainer's room?  We'll see.

I'm not how sure it's worth retaining Becton. My gut says take the money & run on him actually playing 15 games (if he finishes the last 4). Also he's gotten run around too many times. 

The best thing I could say in his favor is I don't know how much of a handicap it is having a bad OLC. It's certainly not helpful, but would a change really make Becton's feet any faster? 

He's probably better suited on the right side where a speed rusher won't be destroying his QB from the blind side, but with enough LT shortages someone will make him an offer, leaving the Jets to either tag him or let him go. I doubt he wants to play for Saleh or the Jets again - let alone sign on to be here long term - just because Aaron Rodgers had been eating lunch with him. 

No argument on the need for these guys to stay on the field no matter who the starting 5 ends up including. A better QB and a better receiver corps should make them need to hold their blocks at least half-second less on average, on top of upgrading the OLC.

Funny thing is, if the GM wanted to save $ (never mind extra day 1-2 draft picks) on the OL? Should've paid Bill Callahan $5MM with 4 years guaranteed, just to be the OLC. They'd still have a mountain of change leftover. 

[bitonti]

3 hours ago, football guy said:

I don't know if it will inspire "hope", but trying to keep this realistic. I don't know that it will necessarily be a massive improvement until they figure out how to keep guys healthy, make changes to their coaching/training, etc., because the biggest issue with this OL is not talent, its chemistry and availability. Saleh and his staff will enter 2024 on their final life line, so it may be difficult to lure another OL coach given the potential lack of job security... 

LT: Mekhi Becton, Carter Warren
LG: Laken Tomlinson, Cooper Beebe
OC: Joe Tippmann, Wes Schweitzer (C/G) 
RG: Alijah Vera-Tucker
RT: Taliese Fuaga, Halapoulivaati Vaitai (T/G) 

• I think Mekhi comes back on a 1-year guaranteed deal. He's still young, and if he can show another year of staying healthy and continued improvement he'll get a massive contract. I also think Aaron will have an influence on his decision. 
• I don't think they move on from Tomlinson because of his availability and dead cap hit, but I do think they will make it a priority to draft an interior lineman with upside who could even challenge for a starting job. My guess is Beebe goes in the 3rd round, and I wouldn't rule out us using both our top picks on OL. 
• Going to have to run it back with Tippmann and Schweitzer at C. Maybe they move on from Schweitzer after a camp battle, either way my guess is they would carry a 3rd center on the PS. 
• In an ideal world I would move AVT back to LG, but my guess is he stays at RG while the Jets focus on bringing in more quality backups. 
• I think Taliese Fuaga is going to be a guy they really like in the draft, and I think they will be OK with taking him even if he's an RT only guy. He's an elite run blocker with a nasty demeanor who can play right away and be a tone setter. He's a good athlete and while may struggle with speed, has the traits to improve. I think the Jets bring in a guy like Vaitai to compete with Mitchell to be a more versatile G/T backup. Maybe Mitchell sticks on the PS, but I would imagine Vaitai would win that spot if he were healthy. 
   

Big fuaga fan 

Hal vaitai is physically done (and more of a guard at this point)

Wes schweitzer is basically done too 

Becton can get more than a 1 year deal on the market. Way more probably. And I don't know if they even want him back. His pass pro remains an issue 

 

[bitonti]

20 minutes ago, NYJCAP2 said:

Anyone with PFF want to post Laken Tomlinson's profile from this year please?

95% of you don’t have him in your plans, yet that will cost anywhere from $6-10M in dead money.

Laken is trash but his contract means his job is safe 

[UntouchableCrew]

Strikes me as extremely unlikely that Becton is back.

I think AVT and Tippman are two of your starters on the interior and one of the OT spots is a high draft pick, with at least one of the five starting spots going to a high priced FA. Hard to know beyond that. If we keep this coaching staff they'll probably suck again in 2024.

[UntouchableCrew]

16 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Funny thing is, if the GM wanted to save $ (never mind extra day 1-2 draft picks) on the OL? Should've paid Bill Callahan $5MM with 4 years guaranteed, just to be the OLC. They'd still have a mountain of change leftover. 

This.

[NYJCAP2]

48 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Laken is trash but his contract means his job is safe 

His contract does make him safe, had a better year last year. Not worth creating a hole over.

LT- 1st round OT 

LG- Tomlinson 

C- T-ippy

RG- AVT 

RT- Huge ???

Backups under contract:

Schweitzer

Warren

Mitchell

Depth to add:

McGovern

Day 2 or 3 pick

 

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, NYJCAP2 said:

Anyone with PFF want to post Laken Tomlinson's profile from this year please?

I don't have Laken's number but saw Billy Turner scored like an 82 after he went in for Max Mitchell at RT 

[bitonti]

10 minutes ago, NYJCAP2 said:

LT- 1st round OT 

LG- Tomlinson 

C- T-ippy

RG- AVT 

RT- Huge ???

 

this is what should happen but replacing two OT sounds impossible

unless the Jets double dip in the draft

the Seahawks did take Charles Cross and Abraham Lucas (rd 3) in the same draft so there is precedence 

what if the Jets coaches believe in AVT at RT, and believe his injuries are flukes

they are trying out an awful lot of RGs this year, Jake Hanson, Chris Glaser, Xavier Newman 

the Jets could be thinking AVT at RT and just find a RG? 

there's no easy answers. The OL remain a problem 

ideally if the QB play gets better or quicker it helps everything

 

[Claymation]

3 hours ago, Claymation said:

LT-Alt or Fuaga

LG-AVT/Risner

C-Brewer

RG-Tippman/Risner

RT-Trent Brown

Let's try this instead or as an alternate.

LT-Alt or Fuaga

LG-AVT

C-Tippman

RG-Hunt or Dotson (3 years - 45 million)

RT-Trent Brown (2 years - 15 million)

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

• JD’s track record on FA OL is not good.  We could not sign Joe Thuney-that is now we ended up drafting AVT.  Assuming we are going to fill an OL hole through FA is very aspirational. 
• The Jets will end up reaching for a RT in rd 1.  they still need WR, but you can get those in FA.  Sort of. 
• I think the call this year is to try and trade 2025 picks for 2024 picks.  Put the chips on the table. 

True enough I think they’ll be going oline in round one but I don’t necessarily see the point in a tackle unless the guy can start right out of the box.  Maybe they’d be better off picking a guard who probably can start from day one.  Also I wouldn’t be too surprised at them using a top pick on wr.

[NYJCAP2]

9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

this is what should happen but replacing two OT sounds impossible

unless the Jets double dip in the draft

the Seahawks did take Charles Cross and Abraham Lucas (rd 3) in the same draft so there is precedence 

what if the Jets coaches believe in AVT at RT, and believe his injuries are flukes

they are trying out an awful lot of RGs this year, Jake Hanson, Chris Glaser, Xavier Newman 

the Jets could be thinking AVT at RT and just find a RG? 

there's no easy answers. The OL remain a problem 

ideally if the QB play gets better or quicker it helps everything

 

Agreed on what the Seahawks did, but missing the second rounder hurts.

I’d argue for McGovern at C & T-ippy at G over any one of those guys at G.

But if it were me, AVT is never playing OT again.