Robert Saleh and Jeff Ulbrich are holding our defense back...

[TuscanyTile2]

4 minutes ago, SomebodytoAnybody47 said:

Were you oblivious to how they were trying to build the team? They started nobodies across the board. Bryce Hall was CB1 for goodness sake. 

Discussing the defense after last year, as if it was a weakness, is just stupid. 

The defense was an obvious strength last year.  But how much of that was the talent and depth as opposed to great coaching?  They both did a solid job coaching the defense.  They also had a lot to work with.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

3 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

The defense was an obvious strength last year.  But how much of that was the talent and depth as opposed to great coaching?  They both did a solid job coaching the defense.  They also had a lot to work with.

Well that’s how football works..need good players. Need good coaches. When they come together - it usually works out pretty well.

I hope the offense has a lot work to worth soon too!  

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, SomebodytoAnybody47 said:

Well that’s how football works..need good players. Need good coaches. When they come together - it usually works out pretty well.

I hope the offense has a lot work to worth soon too!  

The question is how much do the coaches add.  If all they are is a reflection of the talent level on the team then they're not really adding anything and are easily replaceable.  

[The Crusher]

2 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

The Defense is very, very good... but the scheme is very basic and unimaginative. It's driven by solid play by the corners and a heavy DL rotation.

Rex could take this roster of players and create a legendary Defense imo. 

 Greg Williams as well in my fat opinion. Guy made The Prez a star!! 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Wiks system = saleh, no difference at all.

KC won becasue they had a balls out smart D guy in spags who blitzes and moves his best players into spots they can have the best effect on the game.

It’s absurd teams don’t even bother to copy the Andy Reid staple plays that work like a charm.

Have you ever seen the Jets run the “corn dog”?  Of course not.

The delayed cheap shovel pass to the TE through the middle of the line seems to work most of the time too.

But it’s not in Hackett’s offensive vocab.

Look at all the constant motion run by Shanahan and McDaniel that keeps defenses off balance.

Hack can’t even get guys to line up correctly who are standing still.

[Joejet]

13 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

It’s absurd teams don’t even bother to copy the Andy Reid staple plays that work like a charm.

Have you ever seen the Jets run the “corn dog”?  Of course not.

The delayed cheap shovel pass to the TE through the middle of the line seems to work most of the time too.

But it’s not in Hackett’s offensive vocab.

Look at all the constant motion run by Shanahan and McDaniel that keeps defenses off balance.

Hack can’t even get guys to line up correctly who are standing still.

You do realize the thread is about the defense, right?

[doitny]

6 minutes ago, Joejet said:

You do realize the thread is about the defense, right?

 

[#27TheDominator]

3 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Wiks system = saleh, no difference at all.

KC won becasue they had a balls out smart D guy in spags who blitzes and moves his best players into spots they can have the best effect on the game.

Spags balls out smart D with his best players in spot where they could have the best effect on the game managed to spit up a lead twice in teh fourth quarter and once in OT. 

[#27TheDominator]

2 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Is your argument that with the right coaching this defense would be as good as the '85 Bears or '00 Ravens? If so please let us know what coaches could accomplish this.

I would argue that the rules have changes such that we'll never see a defense as dominant as either of those again.

BUDDY RYAN!!!

[Jack Straw]

Oh here we go another inane Beerfish post about the Jets defense.  Time to give him a thumbs down or sympathy emoji!
Bring it my pretties!
The NY Jets have a good defense, probably very good but for sure not 'elite' and yet we have some 'elite' players.
When system, whether offense or defense trumps player talent there is an issue.  
We do not make the best use of our talent on defense imo.
We play a simple basic defense, rush 4, hardly ever blitz (2nd lowest in the league) defense.
We do not move players around to take advantage of their strengths.
As a defense why are you hesitant to blitz?   Well you do not want to expose your secondary, especially your CBs.
But the Jets have very very good CBs .
We do not move our all pro CB around to take away the other teams best player.  Now DJ Reed is pretty good and Carter is a good slot CB but they are not Sauce.
We stick Quinnen Williams in the middle and let him essentially be Snacks Harrison or Mike Devito, eat up double teams and make some plays.
Quinnen is fully capable of having a Chris Jones impact but whereas KC is creative and moves him around and makes him a focus the Jets just stick Quinnen in one spot and hope he beats the double team.  Quinnen should be moved all over the Dline, yes even to end and let him seek out the other teams weak spots and make it much tougher to double him.
The Jets are obsessed with 4 man rush and rotation but guys like Huff play like 30% of snaps.   Oh but Huff is not great vs the run!  Well the jets essentially play with two base LBs and then either nickel or dime and a tiny lb.   We don't seem to care about run defense in other areas.  This is no longer the old NFL teams pass on 1st down ALOT.
The lack of blitzing makes a team predicable, the other team doesn't have to worry about the blitz, their backs and TEs don't have worry about picking up blitzes.
TL;DR
The Jets have a good defense because they have good players but could be far better and are built to play a riskier game which could vault them to that 'elite' status.
All gas and no brakes?  The Jets defense system has the drive in low gear and riding the brake all game long.
Release the Krakens you cowards!
 
 

I have thoroughly examined the finer details of your argument and can not find a flaw.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Long Island Leprechaun]

4 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Quite blaming the offense for the D not being elite.

Teams like the Bears and for sure the Dilfer ravens had not much, they won.

Jets D good?  Yes good, elite?  No but it could be.  We have some elite players.

And yet he's right. 

[Beerfish]

20 minutes ago, Jack Straw said:

 

I have thoroughly examined the finer details of your argument and can not find a flaw.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

WE need a 'cannot find a flaw' emjoi for this site.

[Rhg1084]

We had the #1 ranked defense. I think that’s the least of our problems, no? 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

4 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Quite blaming the offense for the D not being elite.

Teams like the Bears and for sure the Dilfer ravens had not much, they won.

Jets D good?  Yes good, elite?  No but it could be.  We have some elite players.

Your comment about the Dilfer Ravens is bogus. Dilfer shared one game with Tony Banks midway through the season against the Steelers where the Ravens scored 6 points and lost 9-6. For the rest of the season under Dilfer the offense scored 27, 24, 27, 44, 24, 13, and 34 points. In the playoffs the Ravens scored 21, 24, 16, and 34. Those are not offensive totals to be ashamed of. They had Jamal Lewis, Priest Holmes, and Shannon Sharpe to name just some of their offensive force. Give the Jets defense that kind of support and they would have been truly elite. 

[BornJetsFan1983]

5 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Oh here we go another inane Beerfish post about the Jets defense.  Time to give him a thumbs down or sympathy emoji!

Bring it my pretties!

The NY Jets have a good defense, probably very good but for sure not 'elite' and yet we have some 'elite' players.

When system, whether offense or defense trumps player talent there is an issue.  

We do not make the best use of our talent on defense imo.

We play a simple basic defense, rush 4, hardly ever blitz (2nd lowest in the league) defense.

We do not move players around to take advantage of their strengths.

As a defense why are you hesitant to blitz?   Well you do not want to expose your secondary, especially your CBs.

But the Jets have very very good CBs .

We do not move our all pro CB around to take away the other teams best player.  Now DJ Reed is pretty good and Carter is a good slot CB but they are not Sauce.

We stick Quinnen Williams in the middle and let him essentially be Snacks Harrison or Mike Devito, eat up double teams and make some plays.

Quinnen is fully capable of having a Chris Jones impact but whereas KC is creative and moves him around and makes him a focus the Jets just stick Quinnen in one spot and hope he beats the double team.  Quinnen should be moved all over the Dline, yes even to end and let him seek out the other teams weak spots and make it much tougher to double him.

The Jets are obsessed with 4 man rush and rotation but guys like Huff play like 30% of snaps.   Oh but Huff is not great vs the run!  Well the jets essentially play with two base LBs and then either nickel or dime and a tiny lb.   We don't seem to care about run defense in other areas.  This is no longer the old NFL teams pass on 1st down ALOT.

The lack of blitzing makes a team predicable, the other team doesn't have to worry about the blitz, their backs and TEs don't have worry about picking up blitzes.

TL;DR

The Jets have a good defense because they have good players but could be far better and are built to play a riskier game which could vault them to that 'elite' status.

All gas and no brakes?  The Jets defense system has the drive in low gear and riding the brake all game long.

Release the Krakens you cowards!

 

 

The offensive troubles cause is to play safer. It's just smart odds

[varjet]

6 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

We had the #1 ranked defense. I think that’s the least of our problems, no? 

I think if the Jets were 10 on defense and 22 on offense they would win more games 

[Tooooon]

4 hours ago, Larz said:

It should also be noted that playing with one of the worst offenses (not hyperbole) in league history never giving them a lead and having so many short fruitless drives has an enormous impact on the defense. If they didn’t rotate they would have been gassed by halftime every week. 
 

It’s actually a testament to Saleh and Ulbrich and probably Mosley that the defense played hard all year and rarely called out the offense. 
 

 

BUT I’VE BEEN ASSURED MOSLEY SUCKS AND IS USELESS AND CANT BELIEVE HE’S STILL ON THE ROSTER

[Larz]

4 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Quite blaming the offense for the D not being elite.

Teams like the Bears and for sure the Dilfer ravens had not much, they won.

Jets D good?  Yes good, elite?  No but it could be.  We have some elite players.

My point was the exact opposite.  You are claiming that the defense struggled.
 

It didn’t.

Which is amazing considering how bad the offense was. You can pretend that complimentary football isn’t real, but it is. 

Every team wants to play with a lead and rush the passer but remember what ulbrich said his first year here ?

He said that the defense is so aggressive up front and has so little responsibility ( not none, just less) in the run game that if the opposing QB gets to his second or third read before they get home that the defense will not work  

The linebackers and secondary in this defense are required to do a LOT  

 

give this defense a lead and they will win a lot of games for you  

that’s why, you know, I keep bringing up the offense 

 

 

[sciond]

5 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Oh here we go another inane Beerfish post about the Jets defense.  Time to give him a thumbs down or sympathy emoji!

Bring it my pretties!

The NY Jets have a good defense, probably very good but for sure not 'elite' and yet we have some 'elite' players.

When system, whether offense or defense trumps player talent there is an issue.  

We do not make the best use of our talent on defense imo.

We play a simple basic defense, rush 4, hardly ever blitz (2nd lowest in the league) defense.

We do not move players around to take advantage of their strengths.

As a defense why are you hesitant to blitz?   Well you do not want to expose your secondary, especially your CBs.

But the Jets have very very good CBs .

We do not move our all pro CB around to take away the other teams best player.  Now DJ Reed is pretty good and Carter is a good slot CB but they are not Sauce.

We stick Quinnen Williams in the middle and let him essentially be Snacks Harrison or Mike Devito, eat up double teams and make some plays.

Quinnen is fully capable of having a Chris Jones impact but whereas KC is creative and moves him around and makes him a focus the Jets just stick Quinnen in one spot and hope he beats the double team.  Quinnen should be moved all over the Dline, yes even to end and let him seek out the other teams weak spots and make it much tougher to double him.

The Jets are obsessed with 4 man rush and rotation but guys like Huff play like 30% of snaps.   Oh but Huff is not great vs the run!  Well the jets essentially play with two base LBs and then either nickel or dime and a tiny lb.   We don't seem to care about run defense in other areas.  This is no longer the old NFL teams pass on 1st down ALOT.

The lack of blitzing makes a team predicable, the other team doesn't have to worry about the blitz, their backs and TEs don't have worry about picking up blitzes.

TL;DR

The Jets have a good defense because they have good players but could be far better and are built to play a riskier game which could vault them to that 'elite' status.

All gas and no brakes?  The Jets defense system has the drive in low gear and riding the brake all game long.

Release the Krakens you cowards!

 

 

You are not wrong

But don't let it keep you up at night....

[Beerfish]

30 minutes ago, sciond said:

You are not wrong

But don't let it keep you up at night....

I just watched a Jets like defense in Sf lose to a KC defense that uses its best players to attack.

To get to where we want to be our D has to lead the way and be the best it can be.

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Wiks system = saleh, no difference at all.

KC won becasue they had a balls out smart D guy in spags who blitzes and moves his best players into spots they can have the best effect on the game.

Old enough to remember all the bitching that the league learned how to beat Rex’s reliance on the blitz.  
This is comical.  Until the claim that the lack of an offense has no effect on defense.  Then it changes to ridiculous 

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

It’s absurd teams don’t even bother to copy the Andy Reid staple plays that work like a charm.

Have you ever seen the Jets run the “corn dog”?  Of course not.

The delayed cheap shovel pass to the TE through the middle of the line seems to work most of the time too.

But it’s not in Hackett’s offensive vocab.

Look at all the constant motion run by Shanahan and McDaniel that keeps defenses off balance.

Hack can’t even get guys to line up correctly who are standing still.

All we need is an OC, any OC, as long as it’s not the OC employed by the Jets.  Because as any knowledgeable football fan knows it wasn’t the QB you hate, the OLmen you hate or the lack of WR and TEs who other than GW it’s just get another OC.  Kind of as short sighted as blaming the HC and DC for putting a D out there that if we had a competent O would be a top D.

 

[TuscanyTile2]

8 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

We had the #1 ranked defense. I think that’s the least of our problems, no? 

PFF - lol

 

[Rhg1084]

8 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

PFF - lol

 

Well that was just one metric I used. The Jets were ranked as a top defense across the board by many different places. PFF happened to have them at 1

[jetsfan4life72]

Been saying this for two years!

They don’t scheme to put their guys in position to play to their strengths. They line guys up and expect them to win their assignment every play. 
 

JFM and Clemons wide 9 is terrible. Sauce not following the top WR or being sent on blitzes, very underrated with that. Quincy blitzing maybe once a game. If they played to everyone’s strengths they would be even better. 

[maury77]

14 hours ago, Larz said:

It should also be noted that playing with one of the worst offenses (not hyperbole) in league history never giving them a lead and having so many short fruitless drives has an enormous impact on the defense. If they didn’t rotate they would have been gassed by halftime every week. 
 

It’s actually a testament to Saleh and Ulbrich and probably Mosley that the defense played hard all year and rarely called out the offense. 
 

 

This. What holds back the defense most is a bad offense that can't stay on the field or score points. 

[Biggs]

15 hours ago, bitonti said:

if the 49ers still had Saleh at DC they'd win that game the other night 

If Saleh was the HC of the 49ers they don't make the playoffs.   Saleh's D gave up 21 points in the 4th quarter to the Chiefs in the SB.   After that performance he interviewed for the Detroit job which is his home town.  They weren't impressed and he became the Jets HC.  The end.

[Biggs]

9 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

All we need is an OC, any OC, as long as it’s not the OC employed by the Jets.  Because as any knowledgeable football fan knows it wasn’t the QB you hate, the OLmen you hate or the lack of WR and TEs who other than GW it’s just get another OC.  Kind of as short sighted as blaming the HC and DC for putting a D out there that if we had a competent O would be a top D.

 

Are you really going to pretend that the HC and JM don't colloborate on the roster?

[Jet Nut]

7 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Are you really going to pretend that the HC and JM don't colloborate on the roster?

Anymore than someone actually sit here and bitch about the roster they’ve assembled on D?  We were top 5 the last 2 seasons, without an O helping out.  Complaining about the defense is silly.  

[bonkertons]

I don't think we'll find out truly how good this D is until we improve our offense.  This is a defense that is built around it's pass defense - rushing the QB while taking away passing lanes.  When we play behind, teams run all over us and beat us down.  It takes away our strength, and you end up seeing these blowout scores.  

 

There is definitely work that needs to be done - mainly upgrading DT2, bringing in a guy who can stop the run - potentially replacing Mosley with someone younger, faster, hungrier.  There are some really exciting prospects coming out who you could probably get in the 3rd or 4th, like a Junior Colson or Payton Wilson.  Guys who will add some speed and bring that non-stop motor and fearlessness attacking the LOS.  I like our safeties if we bring back Davis, which I hope we do.  

 

But yeah, the true test will be seeing how we fare once our offense puts up points.  Closest thing we saw to it was against Washington and we nearly botched that.  Granted it was a game that didn't matter, that some wanted to lose, and they without a doubt began to underestimate their opponent.  Hopefully that was an outlier and not something we come to expect next year.  

 

Regardless though, we kinda have to just trust that our defense IS good enough to win with, since there are just so many freaking holes on offense and only so much money available to fix them.  

[The Crusher]

11 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

We had the #1 ranked defense. I think that’s the least of our problems, no? 

Like driving a car with only two wheels. 

[Biggs]

53 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Anymore than someone actually sit here and bitch about the roster they’ve assembled on D?  We were top 5 the last 2 seasons, without an O helping out.  Complaining about the defense is silly.  

You can only not bitch about it because the Offensive roster is so bad it's an excuse for the D being gassed and giving up yards and points.  Yet we keep drafting guys on D for rotation to keep them fresh.

[varjet]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

Are you really going to pretend that the HC and JM don't colloborate on the roster?

It’s worse than that.  For this Jets team, the coaches actually select the roster.  That is clear.  Maybe that is the way all teams work….but the balance here is coach heavy. 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

They developed Ashtyn Davis into a turn over machine/Ed Reed Lite. What more do you want?!

[Biggs]

Just now, varjet said:

It’s worse than that.  For this Jets team, the coaches actually select the roster.  That is clear.  Maybe that is the way all teams work….but the balance here is coach heavy. 

We hired a HC who is supposedly a CEO HC.  He doesn't coach players he gives them inspirational speeches, the kind my grandmother used to crochet and frame as a gift for her 5 year old grandchildren.

He also hired the worst offensive coach in the NFL last year to run the O.  I can't blame him for that becuase it was part of a 3D chess move to make the Jets a country club that was going to entice Aaron Rodgers to play here.  (Wink, Wink)

We keep drafting nice Defensive players so we can rotate them and keep them fresh while than blaming the D for not holding late leads because the O left them hanging out to dry.  We than pay Lazzard ridiculous money to be our 2, 3 or 4 because, yea (wink, wink)

Saleh goes to the media and tells us Zach is the best QB on the roster while bitching about him to his media buddy via text.  Douglas with a full mulligan on the season does nothing to improve the roster before the trade deadline including at least trying to bring in a competent QB to run the dysfunctional O.