Brissett *cough *cough

[slimjasi]

5 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Woody says a lot of things 

When is the last time he publicly bashed a player and then ended up bringing him back? 

That has to be a short list. 

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

When is the last time he publicly bashed a player and then ended up bringing him back? 

That has to be a short list. 

Zach last year 

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, varjet said:

I know this view is unpopular, but I don't think the Jets have the money to spend $10mm on Jacoby Brissett.  

But what could be interesting is to bring him in as a back up bridge to hold the fort replacement.  So if he can be a backup at a low cap hit in 2024, his cap hit can be backended for when he is the successor starter to AR8.   We would have a bridge QB while we look for a new one.

But that plan is destined NOT to work because AR8 is not going to tolerate having someone around who wants to take his 2025 spot.  I don't think there is anyway the Jets can afford AR8 in 2025.  

 

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

What makes you think he'll cost $10 million?

His last three contracts, all one-year deals, were for $5M, $4.65M and $8M, respectively.

You think he's getting a huge raise to unquestioned-backup-to-Rodgers vs. the "Very Possible he Started Week 1" deal the Commanders gave him last year?

He's likely to take the most money offered sure, but in a city where he'll get a chance to play/start.  Rodgers 2023's Achilles aside, that most likely place isn't likely to be NY as a Jet.  

I think the bigger issue than money is that he'll probably want to go somewhere where he has a chance at competing for a starting job, or at the very least, go somewhere where the starter is not as entrenched as Aaron Rodgers is. 

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Zach last year 

When did he bash Zach Wilson last year? 

 

What he said last year was that we need a veteran QB

[bicketybam]

Zach last year 

When did he publicly bash him last year? You live in the same world as Walter Mitty.

[Warfish]

11 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I think the bigger issue than money is that he'll probably want to go somewhere where he has a chance at competing for a starting job, or at the very least, go somewhere where the starter is not as entrenched as Aaron Rodgers is. 

It all depends.

More money can buy a guys ambitions down.  If you gave me $1-2 million more than the team with a maybe, kinda-sorta "opportunity" to spot start or start a few weeks before the new draft pick takes over, that $1-2 million extra looks awful good.  Money buys alot, never forget that.  Especially the later you get in a guys career.

And lets also keep in mind, Aaron Rodgers is NOT "entrenched" here.  He's a year-to-year huge "maybe" at this point.  Anyone presuming he's a safe starter here in 25', 26' or beyond is fooling themselves, or at best engaging in very wishful thinking, no matter what Rodgers may say or intimate publicly.

It's very possible any backup QB we sign could start for us this year (if our 41 year old, hurt in 22, hurt in 23 QB gets hurt again in 24') and that that QB may not even be a Jet in 2025.

Ultimately, I think this is all moot, because I simply don't believe JD will sign a legitimate backup.  I very much feel like he's gonna do what he always does, and sign a cheap C or D-tier guy he likes, and call it a day.  Nobody of the Brissett or Minshew level, but more Siemians, Boyles or Rypiens, maybe a half step better, but only maybe.

[slimjasi]

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

 

And lets also keep in mind, Aaron Rodgers is NOT "entrenched" here.  He's a year-to-year huge "maybe" at this point.  Anyone presuming he's a safe starter here in 25', 26' or beyond is fooling themselves, or at best engaging in very wishful thinking, no matter what Rodgers may say or intimate publicly.

 

I don't mean entrenched beyond this year, I mean entrenched, as in: "if you want to play QB in 2024, you need Aaron to get hurt"

 

Brissett is coming off of a really impressive year as a backup (with very limited opportunities, of course). If I were him, I'd go somewhere I thought I had a chance to outshine the starter in practice and actually get rewarded with playing time because of it. 

[slimjasi]

12 minutes ago, Warfish said:

 

Ultimately, I think this is all moot, because I simply don't believe JD will sign a legitimate backup.  I very much feel like he's gonna do what he always does, and sign a cheap C or D-tier guy he likes, and call it a day.  Nobody of the Brissett or Minshew level, but more Siemians, Boyles or Rypiens, maybe a half step better, but only maybe.

ooof.

That would take some big balls after what happened this year. But it wouldn't shock me. 

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, DJF71 said:

This regime shouldn't be allowed to like a QB. They have failed on every single one they have chosen or brought in. 

Every single one?   This regime brought in Wilson, White, Flacco, Johnson, Boyle and Siemian.  They failed all of them?  Wow.  I guess everybody else has failed White, Flacco, Johnson and Boyle too, so maybe we are in solid company.  I assume they will fail on Rodgers but that ship certainly still has a slight chance.  Two of them did better than expected, two did as expected and two did worse than expected.  I don't see the big deal.  

[Matt39]

26 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

38 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Zach last year 

When did he publicly bash him last year? You live in the same world as Walter Mitty.

He had similar comments last year as he had this year. “We need a QB.” The actual quote was “the issue is QB performance” from Feb 2023. I mean that’s a shot at Wilson is it not?

[slimjasi]

3 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

He had similar comments last year as he had this year. “We need a QB.”

Eh, pretty big difference between what he said last year and this year, IMO. 

He didn't just say we needed a QB this year, he flat out said that we didn't have a backup QB on the roster - which was Zach Wilson's role with the team. That's pretty harsh as far as publicly bashing your own player goes. 

[Jetsfan80]

9 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Jimmy G ... 57-24 ... Good example of a guy that doesn't lose games ... Perfect for Saleh 's system


Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

You guys who focus on QB W-L record in a team game are freaking weirdos.

@Beerfish

[JetPotato]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

When is the last time he publicly bashed a player and then ended up bringing him back? 

That has to be a short list. 

Can we get Woody to bash himself publicly so he won't bring himself back next year? Shouldn't be hard to trick him into doing it. Maybe have a reporter blurt out "WorthlessIdiotNepoBaby says what?"

[Warfish]

40 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I don't mean entrenched beyond this year, I mean entrenched, as in: "if you want to play QB in 2024, you need Aaron to get hurt"

Hardly an unrealistic possibility at this point.

40 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Brissett is coming off of a really impressive year as a backup (with very limited opportunities, of course).

18 of 23 (78.3%) for 224 Passing Yards, 3 TD to 0 INT over 3 games (0 starts) isn't going to get him a starters job or a big contract, IMO.

40 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

If I were him, I'd go somewhere I thought I had a chance to outshine the starter in practice and actually get rewarded with playing time because of it. 

That's very easy to say when it's not you potentially getting the additional millions of dollars a team with less obvious starting opportunity may offer.

Also, factoring in that the 2024 Draft appears to have 3-5 first round QB's, where exactly is this "place where he'll outshine the starter and get to start"?  He failed to do so in 2023 vs. Howell, and he 100% was given a chance to do so.  

I just think his opportunities are far less than folks think, in terms of starting.  He's a backup, he's going to get a backups contract and a backups role wherever he goes.  If he goes to a team with a draft pick QB, he may get a start or two to start the year, but that's about it.  He's not going to turn down more money just for that.

[slimjasi]

19 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Hardly an unrealistic possibility at this point.

18 of 23 (78.3%) for 224 Passing Yards, 3 TD to 0 INT over 3 games (0 starts) isn't going to get him a starters job or a big contract, IMO.

That's very easy to say when it's not you potentially getting the additional millions of dollars a team with less obvious starting opportunity may offer.

Also, factoring in that the 2024 Draft appears to have 3-5 first round QB's, where exactly is this "place where he'll outshine the starter and get to start"?  

Not sure - and you could be right that there isn’t a place like that available - I guess I’m just a big fan of Brissett and have been for a couple of years - he really impressed me when we played Cleveland in 2022.

21 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Hardly an unrealistic possibility at this point.

Agreed 

22 minutes ago, Warfish said:

He failed to do so in 2023 vs. Howell, and he 100% was given a chance to do so.  

Good point. Guys like Brissett will usually get “beat out” by young guys with potential - even if they don’t deserve to be.  

23 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I just think his opportunities are far less than folks think, in terms of starting.  He's a backup, he's going to get a backups contract and a backups role wherever he goes.  If he goes to a team with a draft pick QB, he may get a start or two to start the year, but that's about it.  He's not going to turn down more money just for that.

You’re probably right, but I do think it comes down to the details and how much more or less we are talking about.
 

Either way, as I go through the teams in my head, I admit that I can’t really find a great spot for him to be the likely starter for the entire year. As you say, it would have to be a team that drafted a guy and wants to sit him for a bit.
 

I think you are right about this. 

[slimjasi]

57 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

He had similar comments last year as he had this year. “We need a QB.” The actual quote was “the issue is QB performance” from Feb 2023. I mean that’s a shot at Wilson is it not?

It is - but the company line last year was that “Zach needs a reset,” and once we got Rodgers, it became “a great opportunity to sit and learn behind Aaron.” what Woody said went in line with all that. 
 

this year, woody implied that Zach wasn’t even worthy of being called a backup. I just think woody tipped his hand with that one . . . (Which was kinda stupid, btw) 

[Matt39]

6 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

It is - but the company line last year was that “Zach needs a reset,” and once we got Rodgers, it became “a great opportunity to sit and learn behind Aaron.” what Woody said went in line with all that. 
 

this year, woody implied that Zach wasn’t even worthy of being called a backup. I just think woody tipped his hand with that one . . . (Which was kinda stupid, btw) 

I assume we’ll get an update on it when Douglas presumably speaks at the combine. 

[Beerfish]

50 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You guys who focus on QB W-L record in a team game are freaking weirdos.

@Beerfish

W and L are meaningless for QBs we all know this.  rushing yards ala Justin fields are FAR more important than winning games.

Stats>>>>>Wins>>>>>>playoffs>>>>>superbowls.

Stats are be all.....end all

[Adoni Beast]

If Brissett was our starter the last 2 seasons we make the playoffs. He would be a great backup.

[slimjasi]

12 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

W and L are meaningless for QBs we all know this.  rushing yards ala Justin fields are FAR more important than winning games.

Stats>>>>>Wins>>>>>>playoffs>>>>>superbowls.

Stats are be all.....end all

 

This is a strawman. No one is saying that QB stats are more important than wins, but rather, that they are more relevant to QB comparisons. 

The thing is, wins are a team statistic. 

So, when you are comparing individuals, it makes sense to focus more on individual  metrics like completion %, etc.

[PepPep]

21 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I also hope we trade DJ Reed for hopefully a 2nd rounder (or better!)  We need young OL and WRs more than a DB on the final year of his contract.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

Not sure - and you could be right that there isn’t a place like that available - I guess I’m just a big fan of Brissett and have been for a couple of years - he really impressed me when we played Cleveland in 2022.

Agreed 

Good point. Guys like Brissett will usually get “beat out” by young guys with potential - even if they don’t deserve to be.  

You’re probably right, but I do think it comes down to the details and how much more or less we are talking about.
 

Either way, as I go through the teams in my head, I admit that I can’t really find a great spot for him to be the likely starter for the entire year. As you say, it would have to be a team that drafted a guy and wants to sit him for a bit.
 

I think you are right about this. 

My TLDR here is one I think you'll like: 

If JD wants Brissett, I truly believe there is nothing stopping the Jets from signing Brissett.

But that's the real question, does JD want him (or some equivalent, say Minshew)......I have my doubts.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

W and L are meaningless for QBs we all know this.  rushing yards ala Justin fields are FAR more important than winning games.

Stats>>>>>Wins>>>>>>playoffs>>>>>superbowls.

Stats are be all.....end all

W-L is a stat you know.  It's just very low on the "meaningful" scale because, again, its a team game and there have been quite a few QBs who have performed well and are highly regarded despite not winning a lot of games. 

Think Matthew Stafford.  W-L record of 74-90-1 in Detroit.  Finally went to a good team, and BOOM, team won a Super Bowl.  You were probably like "Stafford doesn't win, why sign him?"  

And didn't you want Derek Carr this past offseason?  Dude has a 72-87 career record.  Per your simplistic take, he sucks, huh.  

Going back further, Vince Lombardi called Sonny Jurgensen the best QB he'd ever seen, and that "If we would have had Sonny Jurgensen in Green Bay, we'd never have lost a game."  Career record:  107-103-8. 

Our own Joe Namath went 62-63-4.  Terrible QB!

Others:

• Dan Fouts (88-92-1)
• Fran Tarkenton (126-114-6)
• Warren Moon (105-108) 
• Boomer Esiason (80-93)
• Eli Manning (117-117)
• Jim Hart (87-88-5)
• Archie Manning (35-101-3)
• Vinny Testaverde (90-123-1)

They sucked!!!

[hawk]

6 hours ago, Larz said:

The jets are a million under the cap. 
 

they aren’t signing anyone that has options 

Salary cap is as about as real as an honest politician.

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

 

This is a strawman. No one is saying that QB stats are more important than wins, but rather, that they are more relevant to QB comparisons. 

The thing is, wins are a team statistic. 

So, when you are comparing individuals, it makes sense to focus more on individual  metrics like completion %, etc.

No one?  You have not been following jetsfan80 and his on going opinions.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

No one?  You have not been following jetsfan80 and his on going opinions.

QB stats are indeed more important than QB wins when comparing QBs.  Arguing otherwise would lead you to the conclusion that all of the QBs I just listed above sucked.

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

No one?  You have not been following jetsfan80 and his on going opinions.

They are more important for comparing individual players, of course! 
 

otherwise, you get silly arguments like Sanchez was 4-2 in the playoffs, while Marino was only 8-10. Therefore . . . 

[BigRy56]

IMO this is the best possible outcome for our backup QB in 2024

[TuscanyTile2]

17 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

IMO this is the best possible outcome for our backup QB in 2024

I think Brissett is the best option.  Gardner Minshew is a very good option but I'm not sure who I think is better between him and Jake Browning.

 

Btw, Woody just can't keep his stupid mouth shut.

"And I think it's going to be for a historically high number for a backup QB. Woody told Coz they're going to pay the backup so that immediately took negotiating out of the hands of Joe Douglas and put it all the way on the agent."

[TuscanyTile2]

5 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Eh, pretty big difference between what he said last year and this year, IMO. 

He didn't just say we needed a QB this year, he flat out said that we didn't have a backup QB on the roster - which was Zach Wilson's role with the team. That's pretty harsh as far as publicly bashing your own player goes. 

I wonder if Woody realizes we also need a completely revamped OL along with a WR2 and WR3.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

18 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Wouldn’t he be one of the better backups in the league? 

Maybe 3 years ago

Pretty sure he’s washed now

[Sperm Edwards]

19 hours ago, Larz said:

Question for @Sperm Edwards

if you cut someone, say Tomlinson and save 8  million on the cap, but incur 10 million in dead money, do you really create space ?   Seems like a lot of guys have big dead money numbers. 
 

 

 

19 hours ago, varjet said:

I believe the cap savings is net.  Mosley would have cost $21mm to be on the roster.  Now he costs $10.4 mm to not be on the roster, but there is an extra $11mm now freed up.  So it is a net positive.  

So, for example, Devin White APY was $7.3mm on his last contract.  If we signed him for $6mm cap hit, we have $4.4mm to spend on a G, and may get a better player.  

No and yes. Technically you only save the small amount but in practice by cutting the player you save the full amount you're not paying him (less any guarantees remaining; Tomlinson has no guarantees remaining, though).

The reason you can still save more on the current year is the net effect of what happens: you backload someone else instead of the recently cut (or traded) player. 

Taking your example of Tomlinson: 

His $19MM cap number breaks down as $13MM in new money ($12.6MM salary and $400K in per-game roster bonus -- that's $400K for 17 games, not per game; since he played all 17 games last year it's LTBE (likely to be earned) so it'll hit if he's on the team, and if he misses 1/4 of the season then they'd get back 1/4 of that - $100K - as a cap credit the following season). Back to the totals:

• $13MM new money ($12.6MM + 400K)
• $5.88MM in prorated signing bonus, which comes from:
  • $4.26MM from the original 2022 signing bonus ($12.78MM divided evenly over his 3 year contract)
  • $1.62MM from his 2023 restructure that converted his 2023 base salary/pay of $13.1MM into a lower base pay of $5MM ($4.6MM salary + $400K per game roster bonuses) plus $8.1MM of new signing/option bonus for the rest. They still paid him the same $13.1MM amount; just pushed more of it to the future. That $8.1MM was divided into 5 seasons with hits of $1.62MM each: 2 of it for his remaining two contract years + 3 void years. If they extended him for say 3 more years then it'd still count $1.62MM per year plus his extension contract amount; if not then those 3 void years all accelerate to the first void year 2025 ($4.86M hits in 2025).

The reason this is important to note is he's going to have a lump dead cap no matter what. It can't be eliminated, because it's money they paid him already; all that can happen is it can be pushed off to hit a future year instead of right now.

When you cut (or trade) a player, all that prorated bonus money accelerates -- because he's not on the team anymore. It accelerates in one of two ways, based on when it occurs, either before or after June 1st:

• If BEFORE June 1st, ALL of it accelerates to the current season
  • For Tomlinson, that's the $5.88MM that's hitting no matter what this year + the 3 void years at $1.62MM = $10.74MM.
• If AFTER June 1st, use the prorated amount that would have counted this season if he was still on the team, and the balance all accelerates to the following season = $5.88MM in 2024 and $4.86MM in 2025. So they seem to save $4.86MM by cutting him later, but really it just means that latter amount hits in 2025 instead of 2024. In the end, it's still $10.74MM in "dead" cap.
• (In either case, remember they also save his $13MM pay for the 2024 season -- by not paying it)

To cut Tomlinson, erase all $13MM they won't be paying him.

• Then you've still got $10.74MM in dead cap money (that they paid to him in the past but hasn't hit the cap yet).
  • $5.88MM of that is designated to hit the 2024 cap no matter what.
  • If they cut him before June 1st then the other $4.86MM also hits this year (but then he's fully off the books for 2025+).
  • If they cut him after June 1st, that $4.86MM doesn't go away; it just hits next year instead. 

The reason the 6/1 date kinda doesn't matter is - since there are no guarantees kicking in as part of the equation - it's the same $10.74MM hitting the cap whether it's before or after June 1st. The $4.86MM that hits either this year or next year (depending when he's cut) would just be offset by someone else, e.g. Quinnen Williams:

• To make the math easy, say they restructure QW's current contract by converting $6MM of his 2024 $14.4MM base salary into new bonus for a new 5 year contract (contract wording aside, the effect is it gets added to his current one, not replacing it): same money paid to QW this season but now it's allocated differently so it therefore hits the cap differently.
• Over those 5 years that'd be $1.2MM x 5 years, with the first $1.2MM hitting this year and $4.8MM ($1.2MM x 4) hitting evenly over the remaining 4 years. That clears $4.8MM from this year's cap, though).
• So now QW counts $4.8MM more in the future, but by cutting Tomlinson pre-June 1st, you bite the bullet on that extra $4.86MM now instead of later. The net on the 2024 cap is zero (technically $0.06MM).
• It doesn't create any new money to hit the cap per se; all it does is it swap Tomlinson's future $4.86MM dead money with $4.8MM for Williams instead. Instead of Tomlinson's bonus money counting later, you're having it hit now and that same amount will hit the future cap in QW's name instead. 
• Otherwise they could cut him after June 1st and leave QW's contract alone. Or instead of restructuring QW, they'd structure new FA signings so they're more heavily backloaded to hit heavier after this year when Tomlinson (and other 2024 cuts like Uzomah, and dead cap for D.Brown, Lawson, etc.) will be off the books for 2025+. The net effect is the same. 

You never truly save cap space by paying an unwanted player more new money than he's worth. ALL of that new money must hit the cap.

There are two other remedies as well:

1. Don't cut him, but do get him to accept a pay reduction. The $4.86MM still is dead cap next year if he's not extended after 2024; it won't accelerate to 2024 because he's not getting cut/traded before 6/1. Say his new lower pay is $8MM instead of $13MM. $5MM savings. In practice they'd probably use the same amount again ($8.1MM) count over 5 years also. So only $1.62MM of it counts this year instead of $13MM. Add that $1.62MM to the original $5.88 prorated past-bonus amount for this year, and his new 2024 total cap hit would be $7.5MM, down from $18.8MM. 
   • That would represent a big savings of $10.3MM this year BUT the poison pill is that in 2025 they'll have doubled the dead cap for not-extending him past 2024: $4.86MM will then be $9.72MM, and all of it hits 2025 in the absence of an extension (there's no post-6/1 cut option since he's not on the team anymore so there's no rostered player to cut/trade). There's no free lunch.
2. Do cut him before 6/1, but designate him as a post-6/1 cut. I think they can do this for up to 1 or 2 players per season (I forget). The main purpose is to allow teams to push off the pain to the following season for a player who's due a big bonus or salary guarantee if he's still on the team a week into the new season (typically the 5th day of the new season) in March. So they get rid of him before that new bonus is paid, but are allowed to get the benefit of treating it as a post-6/1 cut. Tomlinson doesn't have any new bonuses or guarantees coming, but it's not uncommon for GMs to use this anyway to leave more space for the current year and deal with next year at that time, since GMs are always in job preservation mode: just make it to next year and then deal with it then. 

The two most likely scenarios:

1. Keep with a pay reduction. I think it's a mistake to do, but also that this is the most likely, so Douglas only has to find two new linemen instead of three for this season. While it might happen right away in March, to create a bunch more cap space for new FAs, Douglas could also wait until July or August to put the pay cut squeeze on him, since Tomlinson would have a hard time finding a high-paying job at that point it shifts the leverage to the team. The disadvantage in waiting is Tomlinson would carry an $18.8MM cap number until that point.
2. Cut him with a post-6/1 designation. Could wait until after the draft & they see who they got (carrying him at $18.8MM until then), or more obviously is if they add a new FA starting guard in March they'd just cut Tomlinson 5 min later. Again, the pre/post-6/1 is not a big deal; they'd backload someone else instead as outlined above. 

Now I get to see if this post crashes the server.  

[CanadaSteve]

19 hours ago, GKnight83 said:

 

And crazy talk would be unusual on this board?



Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

[UntouchableCrew]

16 hours ago, Warfish said:

My TLDR here is one I think you'll like: 

If JD wants Brissett, I truly believe there is nothing stopping the Jets from signing Brissett.

But that's the real question, does JD want him (or some equivalent, say Minshew)......I have my doubts.

Curious why you think he doesn't want him. Granted, doing what it takes to get him or preferring someone else could prevent him from making the move but I think after last year everyone in the org knows we need a legit backup QB. Woody basically said we need one to the media.

[Jet Nut]

19 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Zach last year 

In this imaginary world we’re discussing, when did Woody bash Zach at the begging of or during the season?  
While you’re at it, when did he supposedly refuse to play?  Wasn’t that before the Texans game?  The one he started?  Didn’t the story and his denial come out early Dec?  Before the Texans and dolphin game and his getting injured?