Saleh's best traits?

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, sourceworx said:

As much as we all kill the guy (myself included) he's gotten a pretty raw deal. He's had to work with pure garbage at the QB position. The fact that he's won 14 games in the last two years despite such awful QB play is kind of amazing.

raw deal? yes
"amazing" performance considering the above? No.  Hardly.

[Dcat]

29 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Its hard to blame Saleh for this mess 

Most of the team's problems are because of decisions made above his pay grade 

Like this nate Hackett thing for example. Does anyone really believe that was salehs decision? 

Saleh has become a scapegoat for JD and woody meddling 

Just to add one of the positive traits is that the defense never gave up on the offense. He keeps the locker room together, other teams give up we've seen it in Jets seasons past 

 

^agreed.  But I still don't like him as the team HC.  Sorry.

[JohnnyLV]

5 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Agreed.  He's basically a decent DC who is masquerading as a HC.  He's thrown around some catchy slogans to try to try to win over ownership and the fanbase and hopefully parlay it all into a 2nd contract.

This is not hyperbole.  One Jets Drive showed the very beginning of his first interview and the first things out of his mouth was "All gas no brake". I would have just about eliminated him right there. If I ask a HC what he is about I want to hear tangible things about coaching, teaching, player evaluation, process management, time management, etc... not a catch phrase. From my experience in the corporate world the more catch phrases a manager uses the less effective he/she/them is at their job.

[#27TheDominator]

28 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Its hard to blame Saleh for this mess 

Most of the team's problems are because of decisions made above his pay grade 

Like this nate Hackett thing for example. Does anyone really believe that was salehs decision? 

Saleh has become a scapegoat for JD and woody meddling 

Just to add one of the positive traits is that the defense never gave up on the offense. He keeps the locker room together, other teams give up we've seen it in Jets seasons past 

 

I don't know what to make of him.  The players seem to like him and play hard.  OTOH, they tanked the second half of the last two seasons.  Even an extra win or two either year would have been huge - no matter what the tank for draft picks crowd thinks.  I tend to avoid interviews, hard knocks, etc.  Literally all these guys come across as idiots there and I remember being on the sidelines with guys laughing at those idiots for decades.  They are also cut for entertainment, so most of the actual value is lost anyway. I am sure if I'd watched it, I'd hate him way more.

The D seems good.  They seem to understand that is not enough and are looking to add an O.  Despite what I read on here, they have never seemed allergic to throwing the ball the way Rex did.  They seem to stick together and weed out the mooks like Hardman.  It would be nice if they weeded them out before wasting the cap, but I guess that happens.  I am not sure why they keep Boyer.  Objectively he does not seen good.  He is not "their guy"  and he is the one Hardman accused of being a liar.  The choices of "upgrades" on O are head scratching.  I give them this year with an open mind that it might work, but fully expect failure and a reset for 2025. 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

I've seen a surprising number of fans get triggered over some of the criticism of Saleh lately.  I was a Saleh guy until I found out he was spending time during the week to work on strengthening his friendship with Joe Beningo.  Should've fired him that day.

So for those still on board with the coach, what thing (or things) do you like most about Saleh?

Going to kick around answers from here and X on the pod this week.

I was a Saleh guy too. Fully supported the hire.

But since then he’s had several seasons, run a dysfunctional lopsided team, a sloppy, penalty-ridden team, only won about 33% of his games, and repeatedly made questionable or quizzical decisions.

So now I’m not a Saleh guy. Good DCo. Bad Head Coach.

[Beerfish]

- The players seem to like him

- He stands there are takes the heat in season while Joe Douglas is hiding.

- He stands true to his principles on defense

- He is not a terrible in game decision maker, not great but not terrible

- He manages to get the team to often play well vs superior opponents.

[JetPotato]

27 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

1 hour ago, JetPotato said:

Is he really even a "great" defensive coach? When has a defense of his ever really stepped up and been the reason the Jets have won a big game? Guess we'll never know, because the Jets don't play in big games. It's one thing to put up solid defenses in the regular season. It's a whole different thing proving your system works against elite teams in a playoff game. 
I don't want to hear about the QB. He and his staff (staffs now actually) have done nothing to prove they are capable of identifying and developing QB talent. They have zero clue when it comes to the most important position on the field.

Philly. The defense definitely won that game.

Not a big game. 

Philly was a proven fraud this year anyway.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

I just wanna see the guy without Zach Wilson playing QB for a season and an above average QB runs the offense.

[bitonti]

25 minutes ago, Dcat said:

^agreed.  But I still don't like him as the team HC.  Sorry.

well he won't be for much longer 

 

[Matt39]

If there were ever an offseason to over communicate and offer some self reflection, this would be it. Instead, he’s vanished. The Jets, presumably because of Woody are awful communicators. 

[rex-n-effect]

He's set up a good defense but how much of that relies upon dedicating resources to the defensive roster at the expense of focus on the offense? It's sort of a wash that the defense is good but the offense is terrible. The defense has enough DL to staff starters who play half a game while there's one serviceable WR. Douglas picks the players but he's accommodating Saleh's scheme. 

He's ok at somethings but not really great at any of them. He finds ways to do things poorly when he doesn't have to. He's a 7-10 coach living up to his potential. He'll go back to another team as DC and do a good job. 

 

[bicketybam]

Not a big game. 
Philly was a proven fraud this year anyway.

Philly was undefeated at the time. Jets were 2-3 and desperately needed a win. It was a big game for last year's Jets and the defense was superb. The offense has 244 total yards but the defense picked off Hurts 3 times, with the last one setting up the win. I get being down on the Jets but try to be somewhat objective.

[TuscanyTile2]

54 minutes ago, SomebodytoAnybody47 said:

I just wanna see the guy without Zach Wilson playing QB for a season and an above average QB runs the offense.

And I want to see how ZW plays without Salesman/Hackett and an above average supporting cast.

[bicketybam]

Don't leave out the WRs, btw.  Reminder that our WR2 last year was a punt returner.

Could have had prime Jerry Rice out there and Wilson either wouldn't have seen him or thrown the ball in a place he couldn't catch it. ****, how much longer do we have to endure this bullsh*t?

[bicketybam]

This is not hyperbole.  One Jets Drive showed the very beginning of his first interview and the first things out of his mouth was "All gas no brake". I would have just about eliminated him right there. If I ask a HC what he is about I want to hear tangible things about coaching, teaching, player evaluation, process management, time management, etc... not a catch phrase. From my experience in the corporate world the more catch phrases a manager uses the less effective he/she/them is at their job.

Saleh should have asked what their plans were for QB and when he heard Wilson he should have ran for the door.

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Don't leave out the WRs, btw.  Reminder that our WR2 last year was a punt returner.

Could have had prime Jerry Rice out there and Wilson either wouldn't have seen him or thrown the ball in a place he couldn't catch it. ****, how much longer do we have to endure this bullsh*t?

Is that right? Is that why GW was still a great WR with ZW as his QB?  How much longer do we have to endure this BS (and our HC BS)?

[bicketybam]

And I want to see how ZW plays without Salesman/Hackett and an above average supporting cast.

Running the scout team as a practice squad player? Probably still sh*tty.

[bicketybam]

Is that right? Is that why GW was still a great WR with ZW as his QB?  How much longer do we have to endure this BS (and our HC BS)?

Garret Wilson's catch rate wasn't great by any means. He put up numbers because Zach threw the ball his way a million times.

How's that bidding war going for Wilson? Nobody wants that clown but I'm glad you see greatness in his future.

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

And I want to see how ZW plays without Salesman/Hackett and an above average supporting cast.

I know that you think that things will turn out differently.  I don't believe you will ever be satisfied that he had a chance with a good coach and a good team.  I don't think that he will ever warrant playing time with one.  Much like people thought that Hackenberg never got a fair shake until he sh*t the bed in the minor leagues.  There are still people that think that David Carr would have been could if given another chance later in his career.  Over the past four years Blaine Gabbert has two super bowl rings and two seasons over 100 qb rating.  I think you should prepare to never get you wish and let this kid go down with you thinking he'd have been good under different circumstances and the rest of us assured that he sucks.  

[bicketybam]

I know that you think that things will turn out differently.  I don't believe you will ever be satisfied that he had a chance with a good coach and a good team.  I don't think that he will ever warrant playing time with one.  Much like people thought that Hackenberg never got a fair shake until he sh*t the bed in the minor leagues.  There are still people that think that David Carr would have been could if given another chance later in his career.  Over the past four years Blaine Gabbert has two super bowl rings and two seasons over 100 qb rating.  I think you should prepare to never get you wish and let this kid go down with you thinking he'd have been good under different circumstances and the rest of us assured that he sucks.  

Bingo.

[TuscanyTile2]

24 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I know that you think that things will turn out differently.  I don't believe you will ever be satisfied that he had a chance with a good coach and a good team.  I don't think that he will ever warrant playing time with one.  Much like people thought that Hackenberg never got a fair shake until he sh*t the bed in the minor leagues.  There are still people that think that David Carr would have been could if given another chance later in his career.  Over the past four years Blaine Gabbert has two super bowl rings and two seasons over 100 qb rating.  I think you should prepare to never get you wish and let this kid go down with you thinking he'd have been good under different circumstances and the rest of us assured that he sucks.  

Not true.  If he goes to another team with a solid situation, we'll know then.  I'll admit defeat if I'm wrong about him.  I'll admit it's even a little odd to me how confident I am in the guy.  I definitely think he improved this past year but the situation around him was crumbling everywhere you looked.  Basically I'm placing my confidence in "the Jets are an inept organization".

I have no idea how this offseason will play out with him due to his contract situation.  But I do think there will be GMs/HCs who will think he's worth attempting to fix. 

[TuscanyTile2]

12 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

13 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I know that you think that things will turn out differently.  I don't believe you will ever be satisfied that he had a chance with a good coach and a good team.  I don't think that he will ever warrant playing time with one.  Much like people thought that Hackenberg never got a fair shake until he sh*t the bed in the minor leagues.  There are still people that think that David Carr would have been could if given another chance later in his career.  Over the past four years Blaine Gabbert has two super bowl rings and two seasons over 100 qb rating.  I think you should prepare to never get you wish and let this kid go down with you thinking he'd have been good under different circumstances and the rest of us assured that he sucks.  

Bingo.

I make this promise that I'll be fair about him.  If he goes elsewhere and stinks then I'll admit defeat.  We'll get to settle this one way or the other in the next couple of years.

[TuscanyTile2]

16 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

Garret Wilson's catch rate wasn't great by any means. He put up numbers because Zach threw the ball his way a million times.

How's that bidding war going for Wilson? Nobody wants that clown but I'm glad you see greatness in his future.

And I say his catch rate wasn't great because opposing defenses knew he was our only WR threat.  That allowed them to focus on GW, rather than on our punt returner.

[NYJCAP2]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

- The players seem to like him

- He stands there are takes the heat in season while Joe Douglas is hiding.

- He stands true to his principles on defense

- He is not a terrible in game decision maker, not great but not terrible

- He manages to get the team to often play well vs superior opponents.

Sounds like a pretty good coach.

Is the grass always greener?

[K_O_Brien]

• Proficient in all Microsoft packages, especially Power-point. 
• Likes to create a positive working environment, with a clear emphasis on promoting a healthy work - life balance, particularly in the off-season. 
• Has developed positive working relationships with the local media. 
• Strong understanding of the Amendments to the United States Constitution. 
• Likes to foster a fun atmosphere in the workplace by allowing employees to wear custom-made t-shirts. 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

The good:  energy, positivity, and defensive acumen including player acquisition & development.

All screaming quality DC

 

The bad:  salesy, BS(er) who is not brutally honest, actions don’t match words (‘competition’ but plays underperforming vets), does not hold people accountable, not a strategist, rigid, overly confident failing to uncover his own blind spots or self scout, horrible on the offensive side, foot in mouth syndrome, needs elite players; cannot out-scheme, immature, insecure .. poor decision making when assembling staff, type of guy who wins trust quickly w/ bravado but is prone to losing credibility, plays not to fall behind rather than to get a lead, not a natural leader for all the above reasons.  Outside of this, he’s great.

All screaming poor head coach

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 hour ago, JohnnyLV said:

This is not hyperbole.  One Jets Drive showed the very beginning of his first interview and the first things out of his mouth was "All gas no brake". I would have just about eliminated him right there. If I ask a HC what he is about I want to hear tangible things about coaching, teaching, player evaluation, process management, time management, etc... not a catch phrase. From my experience in the corporate world the more catch phrases a manager uses the less effective he/she/them is at their job.

Yeaaa I think those shows don't cover any strategic information that could be used against them on gameday.

Watching One Jets Drive and being like "Goddamit where's the coaching!" is like watching a McDonalds commercial and expecting to see how the nuggets are made.

[#27TheDominator]

10 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I make this promise that I'll be fair about him.  If he goes elsewhere and stinks then I'll admit defeat.  We'll get to settle this one way or the other in the next couple of years.

What I am saying is that I believe that the odds are against him being good enough to warrant enough playing time to show you that he stinks.

[Beerfish]

8 minutes ago, NYJCAP2 said:

Sounds like a pretty good coach.

Is the grass always greener?

Well they did not say to list the negatives, that list is as long if not longer.   In the end if the coach is not getting you to the playoffs consistently he needs to be replaced.

[varjet]

Most HCs, particularly young ones, run their side of the ball.  A lot of older HCs run their side of the ball.  Saleh runs nothing. Ulbrich knows he is in the dead end job and needs to be go.  The SF job will be waiting for him next year.  
 

Do the Jets stick with Saleh next year knowing that he needs to run the defense and HC?  No.  Bring in someone else.  I think there is already a plan to bring in Vrabel mid next season.  Woody is trying to save $5mm. 

[#27TheDominator]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

What I am saying is that I believe that the odds are against him being good enough to warrant enough playing time to show you that he stinks.

FWIW, I think the fact that the two teams he is allegedly linked to are the Rams and 49ers seems to lean towards the narrative being driven more by his camp than reality.

[TuscanyTile2]

6 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

The good:  energy, positivity, and defensive acumen including player acquisition & development.

All screaming quality DC

 

The bad:  salesy, BS(er) who is not brutally honest, actions don’t match words (‘competition’ but plays underperforming vets), does not hold people accountable, not a strategist, rigid, overly confident failing to uncover his own blind spots or self scout, horrible on the offensive side, foot in mouth syndrome, needs elite players; cannot out-scheme, immature, insecure .. poor decision making when assembling staff, type of guy who wins trust quickly w/ bravado but is prone to losing credibility, plays not to fall behind rather than to get a lead, not a natural leader for all the above reasons.  Outside of this, he’s great.

All screaming poor head coach

Player acquisition?  You mean the same guy who couldn't be bothered to showed up at the combine until he was forced to?

[nj meadowlands]

When was the last time Saleh (or Zach Wilson for that matter) had a press conference?  Why has he not kept regular early-March media availability?  Who will ask these questions and keep Saleh accountable while he runs off and plays golf?  And has anyone gotten to the bottom of Zach Wilson's trip to Bora Bora?

[bitonti]

15 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Not true.  If he goes to another team with a solid situation, we'll know then.  I'll admit defeat if I'm wrong about him.  I'll admit it's even a little odd to me how confident I am in the guy.  I definitely think he improved this past year but the situation around him was crumbling everywhere you looked.  Basically I'm placing my confidence in "the Jets are an inept organization".

I have no idea how this offseason will play out with him due to his contract situation.  But I do think there will be GMs/HCs who will think he's worth attempting to fix. 

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

What I am saying is that I believe that the odds are against him being good enough to warrant enough playing time to show you that he stinks.

If that's the case then I'll admit defeat. 

Obviously he'll have to first find a team that's interested in signing/trading for him.  If that doesn't happen then I'm wrong.

And if he is on a team but can't get an opportunity then I'll admit that he couldn't impress the CS enough to even put him on the field.  That will also count as defeat for me.