Scouts take on Brock Bowers - merged

[Gastineau Lives]

1 minute ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

 

https://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=27288

 

That doesn’t prove what you think it does lol

[#27TheDominator]

9 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

Good point and the same can be said about KC, Baltimore, and SF. All great OLs. Even more reason why it is buyer beware with Bowers.

Bowers after a trade down? Sure. at 10? Naaaah.

Now Baltimore has a great offensive line?  They started Simpson and Moses.  Simpson was a 4th rounder of the Raiders that they picked up on their practice squad in December 2022 who started all of 2023.   They let Moses go for a song and let Zeitler walk to the Lions.  They are so concerned that their current starter at RT is Faalele their huge 2022 4th that makes Becton look anemic and pretty much sucked last year,  At LG is Andrew Vorhees their 2023 7th and at RG is Ben Cleveland who has missed plenty of time and is in his walk year.  Linda Baum and Stanley are good but Stanley has missed plenty of time the past 3 years.  They are not great and they are not loaded with 1st rounders and high dollar FA like the Jets.

[#27TheDominator]

I get people not being that high on Bowers or thinking he is a mistake at 10, but anybody that thinks he is going to run a 4.85 is a blind moron with no temporal consciousness.

[Adoni Beast]

9 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Now Baltimore has a great offensive line?  They started Simpson and Moses.  Simpson was a 4th rounder of the Raiders that they picked up on their practice squad in December 2022 who started all of 2023.   They let Moses go for a song and let Zeitler walk to the Lions.  They are so concerned that their current starter at RT is Faalele their huge 2022 4th that makes Becton look anemic and pretty much sucked last year,  At LG is Andrew Vorhees their 2023 7th and at RG is Ben Cleveland who has missed plenty of time and is in his walk year.  Linda Baum and Stanley are good but Stanley has missed plenty of time the past 3 years.  They are not great and they are not loaded with 1st rounders and high dollar FA like the Jets.

I have no idea if you've ever watched a Baltimore Ravens game this year if you don't think they have one of the best OLs in the league last year.

[Jetkwondo]

9 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

That doesn’t prove what you think it does lol

And some might say the same for Bowers video clocking in MPH's, but unfortunately we don't have a current combine 40 time to compare the 2 as Daniel Jones's stats did. 

It's safe to say Bowers is at the very least fast enough based on his prolific college production and I think he didn't do a 40 time only because his agent wanted to  @#$% with us Jets fans!

...as he's too much of a good natured, character guy to think of doing so...

If we do pick him, I'd be OK with it, as he seems like an all in type of guy

"He works awfully hard at his craft," Monken said. "He only knows one speed. So right away we knew he'd be able to contribute. Did we know to this extent? Of course not. But once we saw him work, his skill set, we knew we had a chance to have somebody that we could rely on. And as he's continued to develop -- Coach Hartley deserves a lot of credit, one for recruiting him; two, for developing him. We've just tried to continually move him around, put him in position to make plays. He's embraced that. He works awfully hard. He has a lot more to do with what we do in terms of how he works and how he prepares than I've had to do with his progression, and that's just because of the way he's wired."

 

[Raideraholic]

10 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

You would be in the minority.  Bowers highlight tape is a thing of beauty against the best competition in college football.

Don’t just look at yards after the catch, look at yards after contact.  I don’t know what to tell you if you cannot see his explosiveness, suddenness, balance, leaping ability …

You said it against college football .( against kids)    This is the National football league( against men) a total different  animal .  Last year Michael Mayer came in and had his NFL moment the first play in training camp.  MAXX Crosby abused him so bad , and for most of the year many Des abused him / took advantage of him. ( blocking needed serious work).   Took him a good part of the year before he started to get pretty good at blocking.         Bowers if not counted on to be a complete Te , and not in an offense that wants to run the ball a lot.  Than he can be be star but if your team wants him to be complete Te it’s going to take more than year before you see results.         The Jets are win now team.    I Hope they Draft Bowers than means an olineman drops to the Raiders .  

[TuscanyTile2]

10 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Good thing we have an innovative offensive coordinator who will think outside the box and carve out a role for this kid.

‘I don’t think I was ready for him to be as productive as he was in the pass game’ 

‘That has added added a whole dimension to things that we can do. Lining up at WR,…

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, Larz said:

That’s some write up wow. I’d be all over this guy if I had more confidence in Hackett and Rodgers finding a role for him in the offense. 

Bowers is from Napa 

Rodgers is from Chico 

They are like 125 miles away from each other 

It's a done deal 

[Gastineau Lives]

6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Bowers is from Napa 

Rodgers is from Chico 

They are like 125 miles away from each other 

It's a done deal 

[Larz]

14 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Bowers is from Napa 

Rodgers is from Chico 

They are like 125 miles away from each other 

It's a done deal 

 

they are so gonna bro this thing out lol 

[Bobby816]

I mean at this stage if we don’t draft Bowers A LOt of so called experts who have connections with the Jets would be wrong. Which I can’t see that many guys being wrong. Only way I could see it being different is if we received an offer we can’t refuse for our pick.

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 hour ago, Gastineau Lives said:

That doesn’t prove what you think it does lol

The MPH data is just not super reliable at telling us much? 

Danny Dimes ran 17 mph @ his combine and hit 21.23 MPH in a game.

Jones has always been athletic and mobile for a quarterback but he's not some freakish outlier. 

Justin Fields ran a 4.43 at the combine and, while the rest of his game has shortcomings, nearly everyone agrees he's freakishly fast for a quarterback.

Yet look at this from Justin Fields:

*rest of the article is behind a paywall, so I screencaptured this ^

That's the exact same top speed, in mph, as Danny Dimes on his run. None of us believe they're the same speed, no? 

It would appear that the 40-yard dash is still a valuable, relevant tool and likely a more accurate measure of raw speed than the current MPH data. 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

2 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I mean at this stage if we don’t draft Bowers A LOt of so called experts who have connections with the Jets would be wrong. Which I can’t see that many guys being wrong. Only way I could see it being different is if we received an offer we can’t refuse for our pick.

Just gotta wait till the night before the draft. Thennnnn we’ll know. 

[Trotter]

5 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I mean at this stage if we don’t draft Bowers A LOt of so called experts who have connections with the Jets would be wrong. Which I can’t see that many guys being wrong. Only way I could see it being different is if we received an offer we can’t refuse for our pick.

Never discount the fact that it is the jets and their love of defense and edge

@TuscanyTile2 called edge a week ago

[Bobby816]

3 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

The MPH data is just not super reliable at telling us much? 

Danny Dimes ran 17 mph @ his combine and hit 21.23 MPH in a game.

Jones has always been athletic and mobile for a quarterback but he's not some freakish outlier. 

Justin Fields ran a 4.43 at the combine and, while the rest of his game has shortcomings, nearly everyone agrees he's freakishly fast for a quarterback.

Yet look at this from Justin Fields:

*rest of the article is behind a paywall, so I screencaptured this ^

That's the exact same top speed, in mph, as Danny Dimes on his run. None of us believe they're the same speed, no? 

It would appear that the 40-yard dash is still a valuable, relevant tool and likely a more accurate measure of raw speed than the current MPH data. 

Is it though. How many times does any nfl player run 40 yards untouched in a straight line from a track position?

[Bobby816]

Just now, Trotter said:

Never discount the fact that it is the jets and their love of defense and edge

@TuscanyTile2 called edge a week ago

Jarred Verse incoming

[Gastineau Lives]

4 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

The MPH data is just not super reliable at telling us much? 

Danny Dimes ran 17 mph @ his combine and hit 21.23 MPH in a game.

Jones has always been athletic and mobile for a quarterback but he's not some freakish outlier. 

Justin Fields ran a 4.43 at the combine and, while the rest of his game has shortcomings, nearly everyone agrees he's freakishly fast for a quarterback.

Yet look at this from Justin Fields:

*rest of the article is behind a paywall, so I screencaptured this ^

That's the exact same top speed, in mph, as Danny Dimes on his run. None of us believe they're the same speed, no? 

It would appear that the 40-yard dash is still a valuable, relevant tool and likely a more accurate measure of raw speed than the current MPH data. 

I find it incredible that whether Bowers is fast is even a debate.

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, Trotter said:

Never discount the fact that it is the jets and their love of defense and edge

@TuscanyTile2 called edge a week ago

Just now, Bobby816 said:

Jarred Verse incoming

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

10 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

I find it incredible that whether Bowers is fast is even a debate.

I’m in a debate whether he was dominant in college.

Next week we’ll be debating whether JD is overweight..

[RedBeardedSavage]

20 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Is it though. How many times does any nfl player run 40 yards untouched in a straight line from a track position?

 

18 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

I find it incredible that whether Bowers is fast is even a debate.

We'd all agree Justin Fields plays faster than Daniel Jones, right?

Both had the same top speed in MPH, but one ran in the 4.4's at the combine and the other ran in the 4.8's.

It would appear that top speed MPH data can seemingly be misleading - whereas the 40-yard dash seems to more accurately represent a player's speed on Sundays. 

[Gastineau Lives]

1 minute ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

 

We'd all agree Justin Fields plays faster than Daniel Jones, right?

Since both had the same top speed in MPH, but one ran in the 4.4's at the combine and the other ran in the 4.8's.

It would appear that top speed MPH data can seemingly be misleading - whereas the 40-yard dash seems to more accurately represent a player's speed on Sundays. 

That we even need any data to prove he’s fast is silly to me.

[TuscanyTile2]

 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

11 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

That we even need any data to prove he’s fast is silly to me.

We should start giving out IQ tests to our best employees just to make sure they’re smart.

I mean turn on Bowers tape.  Do we need to hand out 3D glasses and stop watches to prove his elite athleticism or should we just look at him explode by, bounce off and drag SEC defenders?

 

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

We should start giving out IQ tests to our best employees just to make sure their smart.

I mean turn on Bowers tape.  Do we need to hand out 3D glasses and stop watches to prove it or should we just look at him explode by, bounce off and drag SEC defenders?

 

Peter Warrick was once the best playmaker in college football and then got to the league and wasn’t. The times can matter. 

[jvill 51]

16 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

The MPH data is just not super reliable at telling us much? 

Danny Dimes ran 17 mph @ his combine and hit 21.23 MPH in a game.

Jones has always been athletic and mobile for a quarterback but he's not some freakish outlier. 

Justin Fields ran a 4.43 at the combine and, while the rest of his game has shortcomings, nearly everyone agrees he's freakishly fast for a quarterback.

Yet look at this from Justin Fields:

*rest of the article is behind a paywall, so I screencaptured this ^

That's the exact same top speed, in mph, as Danny Dimes on his run. None of us believe they're the same speed, no? 

It would appear that the 40-yard dash is still a valuable, relevant tool and likely a more accurate measure of raw speed than the current MPH data. 

Theyre not just looking at top speed though, which in a vacuum is a flawed metric for sure without proper context. They can measure speed through cuts, stop/start ability, acceleration, etc. And they can do it in pads, in game situations and/or in actual football drills, and match it up precisely with the game film. Here’s a pretty decent article on the topic (behind Athletic paywall unfortunately but I’m sure there’s other similar write ups out there):

 
 

https://theathletic.com/5236255/2024/02/03/nfl-player-tracking-system-speed-prospects/

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 minute ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

We should start giving out IQ tests to our best employees just to make sure their smart.

I mean turn on Bowers tape.  Do we need to hand out 3D glasses and stop watches to prove it or should we just look at him explode by, bounce off and drag SEC defenders?

 

Najee Harris was running away from, and bouncing off of, SEC defenders in his college days.

He also declined to run a 40 @ the combine or his pro day.

Here's his highlights in college

He is decidedly not special in the pros. 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

7 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Peter Warrick was once the best playmaker in college football and then got to the league and wasn’t. The times can matter. 

This isn’t a debate how good he’ll be in the NFL.  It’s a debate if he’s fast..

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

12 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Najee Harris was running away from, and bouncing off of, SEC defenders in his college days.

He also declined to run a 40 @ the combine or his pro day.

Here's his highlights in college

He is decidedly not special in the pros. 

My first response would be that 40 times are extremely overrated for a RB.  How did he do in the agility drills?

Here, I found it.  Not good (rated Poor) and he did run the 40 at his pro day.  That wasn’t the issue.

 

[RedBeardedSavage]

25 minutes ago, jvill 51 said:

Theyre not just looking at top speed though, which in a vacuum is a flawed metric for sure without proper context. They can measure speed through cuts, stop/start ability, acceleration, etc. And they can do it in pads, in game situations and/or in actual football drills, and match it up precisely with the game film. Here’s a pretty decent article on the topic (behind Athletic paywall unfortunately but I’m sure there’s other similar write ups out there):

 
 

https://theathletic.com/5236255/2024/02/03/nfl-player-tracking-system-speed-prospects/

It's a good read and thanks for sharing. I understand there's more to it than top speed in MPH, but that's what is being represented as the metric for Bowers' true speed in this thread.

I also know a bit about Kupp and what makes him special;

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/cooper-kupp/32004b55-5053-4597-b958-87408c31956f

That 3 cone is epic, especially @ his pro day. A 3 cone drill of 6.53.

Kupp had at least one quantifiable special athletic trait, his agility, and that translates to route-running or getting separation I guess?

Right now we're just flying blind with Bowers. That's what I find frustrating. There's nothing reliably quantifiable I can point to and say "oh that's it, that's why he was able to do what he did and that's why his game translates."

 

[RedBeardedSavage]

5 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

My first response would be that 40 times are extremely overrated for a RB.  How did he do in the agility drills?  
 

He did not test at all @ either the combine or his pro day, citing an ankle injury for both. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

8 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

My first response would be that 40 times are extremely overrated for a RB.  How did he do in the agility drills?

Here, I found it.  Not good (rated Poor) and he did run the 40 at his pro day.  That wasn’t the issue.

 

That is a LB from Wagner college.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

5 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

He did not test at all @ either the combine or his pro day, citing an ankle injury for both. 

That’s not what the RAS table I just posted says.  
 

Edit:  just saw the Wagner thing.  That’s funny.  Well done my friend

[Gastineau Lives]

34 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

 

We'd all agree Justin Fields plays faster than Daniel Jones, right?

Both had the same top speed in MPH, but one ran in the 4.4's at the combine and the other ran in the 4.8's.

It would appear that top speed MPH data can seemingly be misleading - whereas the 40-yard dash seems to more accurately represent a player's speed on Sundays. 

I can’t wait until we’re on the same side of an argument. You’re a bulldog.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

Just now, RedBeardedSavage said:

That is a LB from Wagner college.

Haha.  Really?  My bad

[RedBeardedSavage]

2 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Haha.  Really?  My bad

All good.