Jets need to make a fairly unprecedented move

[SickJetFan]

WHOA.....PVO please

what a debbie downer

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

@T0mShane How would you rank Robert Saleh compared to Sean McDermott and Mike McDaniel?  If you think Saleh is such an utterly brilliant DC who can basically create a championship defense anywhere, you must think pretty highly of him.

Also, how do you rank Saleh as a DC relative to Wade Phillips and Steve Spagnuolo?  Is he on the same level as those guys?  Or maybe just below?

How am I the pro-Saleh guy now? I said that if you fired Saleh today, he’d get a cush job with one of his Shanahan buddies in ten minutes, and if that’s the Texans or Niners, those are playoff teams *before* he gets there. It’s incontrovertible that he’s built a great defense here. Hate him all you want, but them’s the facts. In the next coach hiring cycle, he’s walking into every interview with an 8x10 glossy of Brick Johnson drafting Zach Wilson and —rightfully— saying that he was victimized by one of the worst draft picks of all time forced upon him for thirty starts by one of the worst owners in the sport, and that dog will hunt. I know you and JohnnyLV and Fidelio want a scalp to hang on the wall because you believe that Zach Wilson was secretly good, but the league is telling you that Zach Wilson is, in fact, unplayable. The one team that was willing to give him a roster spot *immediately* went out and drafted sh*tty Bo Nix at 12 overall strictly to avoid the horrors of Zach Wilson playing a down of football for them. It’s over, my friend. Over. 

[doitny]

 dont understand some of you guys. 

do we all agree Zach Wilson sucks? that he was historically bad here for 3 years? how bad is Tim Boyle and Trevor Sieman? yet we won 7 games last year with the worst QB room in the NFL.  

and the year before won another 7 games with Zach, White and Flacco. who is winning more games with those QBs? 

Vrabel? he went 3-6 with Tannehill better than any QB we have had in the Saleh ERA. and 3-5 with Levis. i dont see him getting more from Zach.

you refuse to account for how important the QB is and how bad ours were. what did you expect? a playoff with this QB room? and the 13 different starting OL combinations? 

and they must love playing for Saleh. you know how i know? they didnt pack it in after we got eliminated from the playoffs. they still played hard and won 2 out of the last 3 games. yeah the ones you guys bitch about hurting our draft position. 

and it says something about a HC who can get his players to still play hard when the seasons been over for weeks. 

 

 

[TexJet]

Wow, 4 pages of this crap. Thought this would die a quick death. 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

How am I the pro-Saleh guy now? I said that if you fired Saleh today, he’d get a cush job with one of his Shanahan buddies in ten minutes, and if that’s the Texans or Niners, those are playoff teams *before* he gets there. It’s incontrovertible that he’s built a great defense here. Hate him all you want, but them’s the facts. In the next coach hiring cycle, he’s walking into every interview with an 8x10 glossy of Brick Johnson drafting Zach Wilson and —rightfully— saying that he was victimized by one of the worst draft picks of all time forced upon him for thirty starts by one of the worst owners in the sport, and that dog will hunt. I know you and JohnnyLV and Fidelio want a scalp to hang on the wall because you believe that Zach Wilson was secretly good, but the league is telling you that Zach Wilson is, in fact, unplayable. The one team that was willing to give him a roster spot *immediately* went out and drafted sh*tty Bo Nix at 12 overall strictly to avoid the horrors of Zach Wilson playing a down of football for them. It’s over, my friend. Over. 

You ARE the Saleh guy now.  You're making full-on excuses for him (the same ones he pleaded to ownership with).  "It's the scapegoat's fault". 

JD gave him great defensive players, btw.  

San Francisco's defense really misses him! When Saleh was there, their fewest "Opp Pts" was 310.  The 3 years after that, they allowed 365, 277 and 298.  There was also an extra game being played!

 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/49ers-defensive-rankings-by-year-2017-to-2024

[Smashmouth]

9 hours ago, JohnnyLV said:

We need to fire Saleh before the start of the season.

If you saw any of the press conferences this weekend it is pretty clear that this guy is just completely not engaged.

He was lifeless, angry and sullen and showed no interest or passion about the draft or the team. He is already checked out.

There is nothing to suggest he is worth keeping. And before you say "defense" that is really a function of having Sauce, Reed, MC2 and the Williams brothers.

THE Jets will be a better team without him. Make Middleton or Ulbrich the head coach and move on. Saleh is in the bottom 3 of Jets coaches ever

 

 

stop

[JetsfaninNorthHollywood]

10 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

Great way to reinforce the notion of the entire NFL & media that the Jets are a complete Clown Show

ha ha .... with this playing as our highlights are shown

 

[doitny]

2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

You ARE the Saleh guy now.  You're making full-on excuses for him (the same ones he pleaded to ownership with).  "It's the scapegoat's fault". 

JD gave him great defensive players, btw.  

San Francisco's defense really misses him! When Saleh was there, their fewest "Opp Pts" was 310.  The 3 years after that, they allowed 365, 277 and 298.  There was also an extra game being played!

 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/49ers-defensive-rankings-by-year-2017-to-2024

and how many defensive players did he develop? Huff, QW(LB), ...JJ and Adams have improved. MC2 a 5th rd pick is one of the best slot corners. 

oh its JD that gets him the good players, he has nothing to do with it right?

how many great QBs did JD give him? oh thats on Saleh and the OCs right?

i like the cherry picking of stats. i can do that too. 

in roughly 50 more plays against the Jets gave up 293 1st downs to SF 319. 

yards per off play.....Jets 4.6, SF 5.0

Pressure %  Jets 26.5....SF 21.0

Hurry % Jets 10.1 (2nd best).... SF 5.4%

 

[Origen]

10 hours ago, JohnnyLV said:

We need to fire Saleh before the start of the season.

If you saw any of the press conferences this weekend it is pretty clear that this guy is just completely not engaged.

He was lifeless, angry and sullen and showed no interest or passion about the draft or the team. He is already checked out.

There is nothing to suggest he is worth keeping. And before you say "defense" that is really a function of having Sauce, Reed, MC2 and the Williams brothers.

THE Jets will be a better team without him. Make Middleton or Ulbrich the head coach and move on. Saleh is in the bottom 3 of Jets coaches ever

 

 

If only New England thought the same way about "Ol' Sourpuss" Bill and his permanent scowl.  He must have never wanted to be there at all!

[Plen T]

[bicketybam]

11 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Pirouette of the year...

Forever defending Slappy Wilson. But wait! Payton traded for Wilson so he must see something in him!! Then he proceeds to trade up and select a QB at #10 overall.

No coach was going to be successful with a starting QB as bad as Wilson. 14 wins over the past 2 years is borderline miraculous. Stop blaming Saleh for Wilson being terrible. And if you want to see Wilson play QB next year, you're going to have to sneak into Broncos practice because he will never see action in an actual game. 

[redlichtie]

I still find the mental gymnastics on here amazing, the defence is only good because of JD but let’s gloss over Zach Wilson, that was Saleh’s fault….and Woody’s!

 

 

 

[jamesr]

Wow, 4 pages of this crap. Thought this would die a quick death. 

Welcome to the off season ... we've got 4 more months of this sort of stuff to go.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Falco21]

15 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

It always amazes me how many grown men think that because they are reactive ninnies, every other man should be.

 

It is even more amazing to think that these are actually very serious thoughts and ideas going through an individuals head. Pretty remarkable

[The Gun Of Bavaria]

If you spent a lifetime of winters in Michigan like Saleh and I have for over four and a half decades you'd be lifeless, angry. sullen and show no interest or passion as well. It's a Pure Michigan thing. 

[TuscanyTile2]

8 hours ago, doitny said:

and how many defensive players did he develop? Huff, QW(LB), ...JJ and Adams have improved. MC2 a 5th rd pick is one of the best slot corners. 

oh its JD that gets him the good players, he has nothing to do with it right?

how many great QBs did JD give him? oh thats on Saleh and the OCs right?

i like the cherry picking of stats. i can do that too. 

in roughly 50 more plays against the Jets gave up 293 1st downs to SF 319. 

yards per off play.....Jets 4.6, SF 5.0

Pressure %  Jets 26.5....SF 21.0

Hurry % Jets 10.1 (2nd best).... SF 5.4%

I'm not saying that Saleh isn't a solid DC (not that I'm the expert of course).  But it feels like a stretch to me to say "he built this great defense" as if he didn't have some outstanding players to work with.  Plus, look at how SF's defense has done without him.  They're better than they were with him.  Imo, saying that if we fired Saleh that it's pretty much a certainty that he'll go on to win championships (or have deep runs in the playoffs) elsewhere as a DC seems absurd to me.  That's the kind of stuff you could say about a guy like Wade Phillips or Steve Spagnoulo.  Has Saleh earned such praise?  Not in my opinion.  

But I'm not really knocking him as a DC.  I just think he has a lot to prove as a HC.  And it really bugs me how he speaks like he's still a DC.  Plus, I don't want my HC to sit there making excuses.  Bill Parcells didn't make excuses.  Bill Belichick didn't make excuses.  Mike Tomlin goes out there and makes the playoffs every year, even when his QBs are Kenny Pickett, Mason Rudolph and Mitch Trubisky.   Meanwhile, our HC runs to ownership making presentations about how difficult it is for a HC to win with a backup QB.  This from a guy who preaches Navy Seals stuff.  He just comes off as such a fraud (as a HC) to me. 

We're likely to only get 1-2 more cracks at this with AR8, btw.  Is Saleh really the guy we want in charge of those chances?   We haven't made the playoffs in like 13 years now.  When we do eventually make it, I don't want our HC to blow it and then give a bunch of excuses as to why it happened and how he'll get better down the road.  I don't think we have the time.

 

[Mr. Rogers]

25 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

We're likely to only get 1-2 more cracks at this with AR8, btw.  Is Saleh really the guy we want in charge of those chances?   We haven't made the playoffs in like 13 years now.  When we do eventually make it, I don't want our HC to blow it and then give a bunch of excuses as to why it happened and how he'll get better down the road.  I don't think we have the time.

I don't agree with your take, but this is maybe the most valid part of it... 

I've always felt like a head coach was more of an organizer and motivator than true coach. The NFL has these massive coaching staffs for a reason, many many things need to happen and Jobs get delegated. The defense is more down to Ulbrich than Saleh and the offenses are more down to Hackett/Lafleur. Saleh is accountable for all of it, but it's not as if he'll be running the plays in crucial moments. 

Saleh seems to have a way with the players if nothing else. In the post Gase era, you can see why this franchise would want that. It'd be horrifying to lose a playoff game because Saleh mis-managed us, but it's arguably just as likely that our defense does its part and offensive coordinator AR8 throws 4 straight incomplete passes to end our season. We won't know til we get there, and greater coaches than Saleh (or Vrabel) have failed. I'm willing to give him his shot, at least this year. I believe we will get at least 1 more try after, especially if we do make the playoffs and fail. 

[TuscanyTile2]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Rogers said:

I don't agree with your take, but this is maybe the most valid part of it... 

I've always felt like a head coach was more of an organizer and motivator than true coach. The NFL has these massive coaching staffs for a reason, many many things need to happen and Jobs get delegated. The defense is more down to Ulbrich than Saleh and the offenses are more down to Hackett/Lafleur. Saleh is accountable for all of it, but it's not as if he'll be running the plays in crucial moments. 

Saleh seems to have a way with the players if nothing else. In the post Gase era, you can see why this franchise would want that. It'd be horrifying to lose a playoff game because Saleh mis-managed us, but it's arguably just as likely that our defense does its part and offensive coordinator AR8 throws 4 straight incomplete passes to end our season. We won't know til we get there, and greater coaches than Saleh (or Vrabel) have failed. I'm willing to give him his shot, at least this year. I believe we will get at least 1 more try after, especially if we do make the playoffs and fail. 

I think Vrabel is just a lot more "on top of his sh-t" than Saleh is.  e.g. I feel like we're taking a risk with his clock management.  Also our staff doesn't even seem to have the little things down.  Even our mathematicians screwed up Breece getting to 1000 yards.  And Saleh ran Breece into the ground (37 carries, his most by far all season) in a meaningless game, presumably entirely for that.  It feels like we're a clown show under Saleh.

[Tooooon]

14 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

It’s also going to be annoying when you're bitching about him next year.

Not me dude.  I’m of the opinion coaches need a qb to have any sustained success.  Belichik’s failures taught us this. Andy Reid was once universally called a coach who “can’t win” in the playoffs before Mahomes.  No coach was ever going to win with Wilson so here we are let’s see how Saleh does now.

[TuscanyTile2]

10 minutes ago, Tooooon said:

Not me dude.  I’m of the opinion coaches need a qb to have any sustained success.  Belichik’s failures taught us this. Andy Reid was once universally called a coach who “can’t win” in the playoffs before Mahomes.  No coach was ever going to win with Wilson so here we are let’s see how Saleh does now.

Hey, I hope he does win and shuts me up.  I don't have much faith in him but we do have a HOF QB now.

Quote

Andy Reid was once universally called a coach who “can’t win” in the playoffs before Mahomes

How did Tomlin make the playoffs with Kenny Pickett, Mason Rudolph and Mitch Trubsiky?  How did he do it a couple of years ago with a decrepit Big Ben.  How did Cleveland do last year with 2 starting OTs out and they used like 5 QBs (including getting a lot out of Flacco)?

I'm not saying Saleh should've won a SB in his 3 years here but I haven't seen anything that showed me he's going to exceed expectations.

[Mr. Rogers]

34 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I think Vrabel is just a lot more "on top of his sh-t" than Saleh is.  e.g. I feel like we're taking a risk with his clock management.  Also our staff doesn't even seem to have the little things down.  Even our mathematicians screwed up Breece getting to 1000 yards.  And Saleh ran Breece into the ground (37 carries, his most by far all season) in a meaningless game, presumably entirely for that.  It feels like we're a clown show under Saleh.

The game management has made me nervous at times during saleh's tenure. He has also been a part of some well managed, crazy comebacks (like last year's giants game or the 2022 Browns game). I think he learned the hard way in 2021 that he needs a dedicated coach for that, which is why Dan Shamash is the "Game Management Coordinator". 

If the Jets do lose a playoff game off poor management from Saleh I'll be right alongside you clamoring for his firing, most likely. I'm gonna choose to hope they have learned enough about this to manage, though. Considering the mighty Kyle Shanahan didn't even prepare the Niners for playoff OT rules last superbowl, maybe it runs in the coaching family? Lol. Let's just hope the playoff dream is real, a lot could change by then. 

[Jet_Engine1]

19 hours ago, redlichtie said:

Jeezus, is crystal meth really this readily available?

Yes. It's marketed under the trade name "Adderall". 

[RevisIsland610]

Saleh was saddled with horrible ZW but he is also a lousy head coach. Both can be true. His teams often started games slow, his clock management sucks, and his teams don't perform well under pressure. 2 years ago they lost their last 7 games. Last year they were 4-3 after a miracle win against the horrible Giants and they could have been in 1st with a win at home the next week over a bad Chargers team with an equally bad coach. What happened? They were dreadful and got their asses kicked. It was all downhill from there losing 5 games in a row and ending any chance of ending the playoff drought. RS is a terrible coach who talks a good game. He has no excuses this year. 

[SoFlaJets]

On 4/29/2024 at 12:19 PM, JohnnyLV said:

We need to fire Saleh before the start of the season.

If you saw any of the press conferences this weekend it is pretty clear that this guy is just completely not engaged.

He was lifeless, angry and sullen and showed no interest or passion about the draft or the team. He is already checked out.

There is nothing to suggest he is worth keeping. And before you say "defense" that is really a function of having Sauce, Reed, MC2 and the Williams brothers.

THE Jets will be a better team without him. Make Middleton or Ulbrich the head coach and move on. Saleh is in the bottom 3 of Jets coaches ever

 

 

Just like Herman Edwards was in his last season. He couldn't wait to get out of Dodge, as he had the Kansas City job waiting for him. Then opening day and the lifeless Jets got completely destroyed by Herm's next team. Some of the dumbest coaching moves I've ever seen or heard from a head coach that year. Saleh is a lot like Edwards especially when he gets into his Cigar Store Wooden Indian  mode, he stands there motionless arms folded with a stupid look on his face telling us that he has no idea what should or could be done. Look Johnny we all KNOW that there's really zero chance that Herm, I mean Robert gets $hitcanned B4 the season starts. As for DURING the season, forget about it, he's going to be really busy trying to get his buddy boy elected

[bicketybam]

4 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I think Vrabel is just a lot more "on top of his sh-t" than Saleh is.  e.g. I feel like we're taking a risk with his clock management.  Also our staff doesn't even seem to have the little things down.  Even our mathematicians screwed up Breece getting to 1000 yards.  And Saleh ran Breece into the ground (37 carries, his most by far all season) in a meaningless game, presumably entirely for that.  It feels like we're a clown show under Saleh.

Which games did we lose because of Saleh? Which games did we lose because of Slappy? I'll hang up and listen.

[faba]

Hope I am wrong and the talent will work for this team but I have little confidence in Saleh not having good clock management or a clue about game management just a cheerleader

[bicketybam]

4 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Hey, I hope he does win and shuts me up.  I don't have much faith in him but we do have a HOF QB now.

How did Tomlin make the playoffs with Kenny Pickett, Mason Rudolph and Mitch Trubsiky?  How did he do it a couple of years ago with a decrepit Big Ben.  How did Cleveland do last year with 2 starting OTs out and they used like 5 QBs (including getting a lot out of Flacco)?

I'm not saying Saleh should've won a SB in his 3 years here but I haven't seen anything that showed me he's going to exceed expectations.

Can you name me one NFL coach that has had success with a QB as bad as Wilson?

[Dcat]

1 minute ago, bicketybam said:

Can you name me one NFL coach that has had success with a QB as bad as Wilson?

I can't even name one regularly starting QB for 2 years who was as bad, let alone a coach to have success with him.

[Tooooon]

8 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Hey, I hope he does win and shuts me up.  I don't have much faith in him but we do have a HOF QB now.

How did Tomlin make the playoffs with Kenny Pickett, Mason Rudolph and Mitch Trubsiky?  How did he do it a couple of years ago with a decrepit Big Ben.  How did Cleveland do last year with 2 starting OTs out and they used like 5 QBs (including getting a lot out of Flacco)?

I'm not saying Saleh should've won a SB in his 3 years here but I haven't seen anything that showed me he's going to exceed expectations.

I’ll give you Tomlin. But Browns were specifically because Flacco played so well. 

But Zach was just that bad I don’t think it was doable to win. Do I think Tomlin could have done more than Saleh?  Absolutely.  I’m no Saleh truther. But if AR can play well this year it’s not like Saleh can’t be a pretty good coach and help them get to playoffs.  And if he does he deserves credit. 

[TuscanyTile2]

9 hours ago, Mr. Rogers said:

The game management has made me nervous at times during saleh's tenure. He has also been a part of some well managed, crazy comebacks (like last year's giants game or the 2022 Browns game). I think he learned the hard way in 2021 that he needs a dedicated coach for that, which is why Dan Shamash is the "Game Management Coordinator". 

If the Jets do lose a playoff game off poor management from Saleh I'll be right alongside you clamoring for his firing, most likely. I'm gonna choose to hope they have learned enough about this to manage, though. Considering the mighty Kyle Shanahan didn't even prepare the Niners for playoff OT rules last superbowl, maybe it runs in the coaching family? Lol. Let's just hope the playoff dream is real, a lot could change by then. 

I don't want Saleh learning from his mistakes when we only have our HOF QB for (likely) 1-2 years.  The Jets had a 10-0 lead against Denver in  the 2nd half of the 1998 AFC CG and we all were thinking that we'd be one of the favorites in 1999.  Vinny tore his achilles and that was basically the end of that and a couple of years later, the entire CS was out the door.

[TuscanyTile2]

5 hours ago, bicketybam said:

Can you name me one NFL coach that has had success with a QB as bad as Wilson?

Mike Tomlin last year.

[TuscanyTile2]

14 hours ago, Tooooon said:

I’ll give you Tomlin. But Browns were specifically because Flacco played so well. 

But Zach was just that bad I don’t think it was doable to win. Do I think Tomlin could have done more than Saleh?  Absolutely.  I’m no Saleh truther. But if AR can play well this year it’s not like Saleh can’t be a pretty good coach and help them get to playoffs.  And if he does he deserves credit. 

Zach was "just that bad" in years 1 and 2 but he improved last year.   Unfortunately, the OL was sh-t, we had a punt returner as WR2 and our CS stunk.  Again, if it was "just Zach" at fault then why did JD just replace 3/5 of his starting OL (including both OTs) plus draft an OT at 1.10.  Plus, he signed a WR2 and drafted a WR at 3.1 along with 2 RBs to backup Breece.   He's also made some moves on the CS.  All this when he have a HOF QB coming back next year?!

[Drums]

Just like most of our coaches in my lifetime, Saleh has proven he can develop a top defense. And just like most of our coaches in my lifetime, he needs to prove he can at least develop an average offense. Unfortunately, I have less than zero faith in the offensive staff. 

[JiFtheOracle]

23 hours ago, T0mShane said:

How am I the pro-Saleh guy now? I said that if you fired Saleh today, he’d get a cush job with one of his Shanahan buddies in ten minutes, and if that’s the Texans or Niners, those are playoff teams *before* he gets there. It’s incontrovertible that he’s built a great defense here. Hate him all you want, but them’s the facts. In the next coach hiring cycle, he’s walking into every interview with an 8x10 glossy of Brick Johnson drafting Zach Wilson and —rightfully— saying that he was victimized by one of the worst draft picks of all time forced upon him for thirty starts by one of the worst owners in the sport, and that dog will hunt. I know you and JohnnyLV and Fidelio want a scalp to hang on the wall because you believe that Zach Wilson was secretly good, but the league is telling you that Zach Wilson is, in fact, unplayable. The one team that was willing to give him a roster spot *immediately* went out and drafted sh*tty Bo Nix at 12 overall strictly to avoid the horrors of Zach Wilson playing a down of football for them. It’s over, my friend. Over. 

https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2024/04/30/denver-broncos-news-zach-wilson-fifth-year-option-declined/

[TuscanyTile2]

6 hours ago, bicketybam said:

Which games did we lose because of Saleh? Which games did we lose because of Slappy? I'll hang up and listen.

I don't know.  Maybe we should ask his texting buddy, Joe Benigno if there are any secrets that he hasn't spilled the beans on yet.