Jets need to make a fairly unprecedented move

[Larz]

Woody: Jeff I need to talk to you 

Jeff : what’s up boss

Woody : This conversation never happened, but if I let Robert go, would you stay on as interim Head Coach 

Jeff : Is this a prank ? You literally promised us another season because Aaron got hurt and you made us play Zach 

Woody : The thing is, well, he’s sullen…

 

😂

 

 

 

[doitny]

10 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I'm not saying that Saleh isn't a solid DC (not that I'm the expert of course).  But it feels like a stretch to me to say "he built this great defense" as if he didn't have some outstanding players to work with.  Plus, look at how SF's defense has done without him.  They're better than they were with him.  Imo, saying that if we fired Saleh that it's pretty much a certainty that he'll go on to win championships (or have deep runs in the playoffs) elsewhere as a DC seems absurd to me.  That's the kind of stuff you could say about a guy like Wade Phillips or Steve Spagnoulo.  Has Saleh earned such praise?  Not in my opinion.  

But I'm not really knocking him as a DC.  I just think he has a lot to prove as a HC.  And it really bugs me how he speaks like he's still a DC.  Plus, I don't want my HC to sit there making excuses.  Bill Parcells didn't make excuses.  Bill Belichick didn't make excuses.  Mike Tomlin goes out there and makes the playoffs every year, even when his QBs are Kenny Pickett, Mason Rudolph and Mitch Trubisky.   Meanwhile, our HC runs to ownership making presentations about how difficult it is for a HC to win with a backup QB.  This from a guy who preaches Navy Seals stuff.  He just comes off as such a fraud (as a HC) to me. 

We're likely to only get 1-2 more cracks at this with AR8, btw.  Is Saleh really the guy we want in charge of those chances?   We haven't made the playoffs in like 13 years now.  When we do eventually make it, I don't want our HC to blow it and then give a bunch of excuses as to why it happened and how he'll get better down the road.  I don't think we have the time.

 

remember when i asked you who could do better with our QB room? Well Tomlin was one. Parcells who went to a SB with a backup, went 6-3 with Ray Lucas and won 10 games with Quincy Carter is the other. but thats about it.

Andy Ried has had 3 losing seasons. his 1st season he went 5-11 with Doug Pederson going 2-7, rookie Donavan McNabb 2-4. 

2005 he went 6-10. McNabb 4-5, Mike McMahon 2-5

2012 he went 4-12. Vick 3-7, rookie Nick Foles 1-5.

Payton is 17-17 without Brees, we all seen how Belichick is without Brady. my point being is all of these guys are no better than Saleh without a QB. but we call these guys great HCs. but they have done nothing without a superstar QB.

you want to judge Saleh as being a bad HC with the worst QB to start 30 or more game in NFL history? doesnt seem fair to me. 

he took over the 26th rank defense with only QW and CJ on the team. yes he should get credit.

so let me get this straight, you want to fire Saleh and hire Vrabel? so you want to fire a HC who won 14 games with the worst QB ever playing 20 games and replace him with a guy who won 13 games with Tannehill playing in 20 games.

doesnt make sense to me.

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, doitny said:

remember when i asked you who could do better with our QB room? Well Tomlin was one. Parcells who went to a SB with a backup, went 6-3 with Ray Lucas and won 10 games with Quincy Carter is the other. but thats about it.

Andy Ried has had 3 losing seasons. his 1st season he went 5-11 with Doug Pederson going 2-7, rookie Donavan McNabb 2-4. 

2005 he went 6-10. McNabb 4-5, Mike McMahon 2-5

2012 he went 4-12. Vick 3-7, rookie Nick Foles 1-5.

Payton is 17-17 without Brees, we all seen how Belichick is without Brady. my point being is all of these guys are no better than Saleh without a QB. but we call these guys great HCs. but they have done nothing without a superstar QB.

you want to judge Saleh as being a bad HC with the worst QB to start 30 or more game in NFL history? doesnt seem fair to me. 

he took over the 26th rank defense with only QW and CJ on the team. yes he should get credit.

so let me get this straight, you want to fire Saleh and hire Vrabel? so you want to fire a HC who won 14 games with the worst QB ever playing 20 games and replace him with a guy who won 13 games with Tannehill playing in 20 games.

doesnt make sense to me.

Again, we're likely only going to get 1-2 cracks at this with AR8.  Are you sure you want to risk that on Saleh?  What has he done to deserve another chance?  Yes, the defense is good but there are probably many DCs out there who could do just as well with this very talented defense.  

[doitny]

14 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Again, we're likely only going to get 1-2 cracks at this with AR8.  Are you sure you want to risk that on Saleh?  What has he done to deserve another chance?  Yes, the defense is good but there are probably many DCs out there who could do just as well with this very talented defense.  

over Vrabel i would take Saleh. 

remember this defense is built to run Salehs system. even if Ulbrich stays which he would because its too late this year to go anywhere doesnt mean it will be the same. Ulbrich might not agree with some of the things Saleh does and want to change things like the DL rotation .

btw i know you dont really think this could happen but just to burst your bubble Vrabel is coaching in Cleveland. he is just a consultant but the new NFL year has started. i dont believe he is allowed to be a HC to any other team but Cleveland at this point. 

i could be wrong but since the new year has started and he is under contract with a team he cant be interviewed or hired until the end of the season. he could replace Stepanski at any time cause he is part of their team but nobody else. or at least that makes sense to me.

[Gangrene]

On 4/29/2024 at 12:48 PM, T0mShane said:

You have to let him coach more than a handful of games with a viable NFL QB. Zach Wilson would have ruined the career of literally every coach in the history of the sport, and the fact that Saleh got stuck with that turd for three years is simultaneously 1. his best excuse for failure and 2. the biggest black mark on his coaching record. 

Saleh was responsible for hiring Nataniel Hackett in an effort to grease the skids for the Aaron Rodgers at 40, post Green Bay, comeback tour.

The beauty of Hackett 2023 without Rodgers, can that all be blamed on Zach Wilson? The Keith Carter hire, how did that work out? With Aaron Rodgers somehow staying healthy for 17 games, is that the magic cure all?

Last season our GM decided to rely on Alijah Vera-Tucker ( seems like a good risk after a previous injury), Duane Brown (seemed like a ridiculously bad risk), Mekhi Becton ( seemed like a bad risk but stayed healthy and played abysmally) protecting Aaron Rodgers  to carry us through 2023. Nine offensive linemen, including a good number of marginal back ups,  ending up playing in two or more positions throughout the season.

This year we are depending on Aaron Rodgers, Tyron Smith, Morgan Moses, Alijah Vera-Tucker...all staying healthy.  Don't tell me Olu Fashanu and John Simpson, cures all those worries? That is a helluva house of cards to build a Super Bowl run on.

Zach precocious, entitled, over drafted, injury-prone, Wilson makes a fine scape goat... but what we are left with, without him, are a series of beautiful stare-at-your-toes excuses waiting to be verbalized in late 2024.

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, Gangrene said:

Saleh was responsible for hiring Nataniel Hackett in an effort to grease the skids for the Aaron Rodgers

If it was up to Saleh, he would have kept LaFleur and fed Zach Wilson to the pigs

[Jack Straw]

Saleh's defense has nine first rounders taking turns roughing the passer on every 3rd & 20 and here we are waxing poetic about his brilliance.

The man can't run a powerpoint presentation, let alone a defense.

[SackExchangeNYJ]

I cannot wait for Saleh's successor to come in, and for a significant segment of Jets fans to declare him the worst NFL coach ever sometime on the first drive of the first preseason game.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Was this topic put here by Jetnation just to drive traffic/discussion?

JohnnyV drops this here and just never adds anything else after 5 pages. Psychopath. Or brilliant. Whichever. 

[JKlecko]

On 4/29/2024 at 12:19 PM, JohnnyLV said:

We need to fire Saleh before the start of the season.

If you saw any of the press conferences this weekend it is pretty clear that this guy is just completely not engaged.

He was lifeless, angry and sullen and showed no interest or passion about the draft or the team. He is already checked out.

There is nothing to suggest he is worth keeping. And before you say "defense" that is really a function of having Sauce, Reed, MC2 and the Williams brothers.

THE Jets will be a better team without him. Make Middleton or Ulbrich the head coach and move on. Saleh is in the bottom 3 of Jets coaches ever

 

 

You must not have watched the draft, because he was smiling and showed plenty of interest and passion when he spoke with the draft picks on the phone.

I'm no fan of Saleh and never was, but I think firing him now would be dumb.  A lot of the players (including Rodgers) like him.  It would create a huge distraction and controversy, which is the last thing the Jets need this season.

[JKlecko]

Even if Saleh were got get fired, the very LAST thing the Jets need is to hire yet another former DC as HC.  Some Jets fans never learn.  One is not going to win with defense.  The NFL is an offensive and passing league.  The Jets are 20 years behind the curve and always have been.  They are never the creators of new things, but one of the copycats who are alway late the party.

If the Jets ever get serious about winning, then they need to hire a former OC who has developed QBs as HC and him hire a young, innovative, creative OC who will design his offense around the talents of the players and not have some pet scheme where he tries to force square pegs into round holes.  They also need to hire a veteran QB Coach to develop the young QB they build around.  They also need a GM who can evaluate offensive talent and will put more resources into the offense than the defense.

[Maxman]

On 4/29/2024 at 12:19 PM, JohnnyLV said:

We need to fire Saleh before the start of the season.

If you saw any of the press conferences this weekend it is pretty clear that this guy is just completely not engaged.

He was lifeless, angry and sullen and showed no interest or passion about the draft or the team. He is already checked out.

There is nothing to suggest he is worth keeping. And before you say "defense" that is really a function of having Sauce, Reed, MC2 and the Williams brothers.

THE Jets will be a better team without him. Make Middleton or Ulbrich the head coach and move on. Saleh is in the bottom 3 of Jets coaches ever

 

 

This is hysterical. Aaron Rodgers signed up to play football for Robert Saleh.

That is the ship.

Let's all sit back and watch the ship.

The ship is not changing.

The ship either gets a parade or we all sink with it.

End of story.

[Maxman]

Bill Belichick is a free agent.

Sign this beast!

[JETSxWRATH™]

Dumb idea, but I do agree that he seems less open with the media. The negative stories about him over the last year have probably made him more guarded

[bicketybam]

5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

If it was up to Saleh, he would have kept LaFleur and fed Zach Wilson to the pigs

What was that thing about a parachute packed with an anvil?

[bealeb319]

17 hours ago, bicketybam said:

Can you name me one NFL coach that has had success with a QB as bad as Wilson?

Good coaching staffs develop players so they won't be that bad. The eagles won a Superbowl with Nick foles at QB.

[Gangrene]

11 hours ago, T0mShane said:

If it was up to Saleh, he would have kept LaFleur and fed Zach Wilson to the pigs

A decade from now, we will all be at the Saleh book signing (not knowing which one among us, is the actual Tom Shane) with that burning La Fleur/Wilson question.

[bicketybam]

7 hours ago, bealeb319 said:

Good coaching staffs develop players so they won't be that bad. The eagles won a Superbowl with Nick foles at QB.

Nick Foles is 1000 times better than Zach Wilson. And please don't tell me you blame the coaching staff for not turning Wilson into a quality QB.

[ECURB]

On 4/29/2024 at 12:36 PM, MykePM said:

 

@JohnnyLV proving that free speech is alive and well... or maybe you are living in an alternate reality where Saleh isn't hyped?

Third theory... you are spending too much time on a Pats message board?

 

No idea but hey... you do you!

[Trotter]

14 hours ago, Maxman said:

This is hysterical. Aaron Rodgers signed up to play football for Robert Saleh.

That is the ship.

Let's all sit back and watch the ship.

The ship is not changing.

The ship either gets a parade or we all sink with it.

End of story.

Thanks Boss.

Ordering a set of swimmies right now on amazon

Should I see if there is a bulk price?

 

[Green Ghost]

31 minutes ago, Trotter said:

Thanks Boss.

Ordering a set of swimmies right now on amazon

Should I see if there is a bulk price?

 

Boss?

Are you a mod now?

[Trotter]

33 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

Boss?

Are you a mod now?

Isn’t he everyone’s boss?

if Ispoke out of place I apologize

[HighPitch]

The OP took a lot of crap on this thread. Meanwhile we have been trying to upgrade the players everywhere.

This board is has been pretty critical of coaching so why not dump sally? Its not that crazy

[doitny]

On 4/29/2024 at 1:01 PM, RedBeardedSavage said:

Seriously this. 

Sean Payton gonna find out real quick that he’d rather start Stidham or a rookie with a Chad Pennington arm. 

Payton left N.O one year after Brees retired because he didnt want to not have a QB. and now after one year of Russ he is stuck in Denver with Zach and a rookie QB. were going to see if he really is a great HC. 

if he cant get one of these QBs to play well he will kill his legacy.

[doitny]

19 hours ago, Jack Straw said:

Saleh's defense has nine first rounders taking turns roughing the passer on every 3rd & 20 and here we are waxing poetic about his brilliance.

The man can't run a powerpoint presentation, let alone a defense.

last year he had 5 1st rounders on defense. QW, McDonald, CJ, JJ, Sause.

the offense had 6 without counting Rodgers. Zach, AVT, GW, Becton, Brown, Laken.

i would guess that most teams have that many 1st rders with FA and draft picks

[RedBeardedSavage]

7 minutes ago, doitny said:

Payton left N.O one year after Brees retired because he didnt want to not have a QB. and now after one year of Russ he is stuck in Denver with Zach and a rookie QB. were going to see if he really is a great HC. 

if he cant get one of these QBs to play well he will kill his legacy.

I hear ya but the broader point is I don’t think any coach can succeed without a viable quarterback.

As uncomfortable as it is to say, that’s why I think Saleh still has a fair chance to be a good coach. 

The “positive vibes only” thing gets ridiculed, and I understand why, but I can both laugh at and empathize with a coach that has built this good of a defense, has Breece and Garrett on offense, but is weighed down by a disaster at quarterback. 

It’s frustrating to watch, and I imagine it’s soul killing, even for Mr Positivity, to be a part of. 
 

[Augustiniak]

7 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I hear ya but the broader point is I don’t think any coach can succeed without a viable quarterback.

As uncomfortable as it is to say, that’s why I think Saleh still has a fair chance to be a good coach. 

The “positive vibes only” thing gets ridiculed, and I understand why, but I can both laugh at and empathize with a coach that has built this good of a defense, has Breece and Garrett on offense, but is weighed down by a disaster at quarterback. 

It’s frustrating to watch, and I imagine it’s soul killing, even for Mr Positivity, to be a part of. 
 

It’s difficult when 6 qbs go in the top 12 picks, and your team had the worst qb for 3 years.  Yet saleh has been all too happy to delegate the offense to anyone else, and that’s not what nfl head coaches can do anymore.  You’ve got to learn offense and i cite belichick as a great example.  Even woody said that saleh has to prove this.  And there’s a video on youtube that has a lot of war room footage and saleh seems very subdued and deferential fwiw.

[jamesr]

19 hours ago, SackExchangeNYJ said:

I cannot wait for Saleh's successor to come in, and for a significant segment of Jets fans to declare him the worst NFL coach ever sometime on the first drive of the first preseason game.

You're still dwelling on the next guy? Move on man, he sucked, it's time to embrace the new era of the guy who comes AFTER Saleh's successor. Only he can take us to the promised land.   

[Jack Straw]

last year he had 5 1st rounders on defense. QW, McDonald, CJ, JJ, Sause.
the offense had 6 without counting Rodgers. Zach, AVT, GW, Becton, Brown, Laken.
i would guess that most teams have that many 1st rders with FA and draft picks

You’re forgetting Solomon Thomas. Six last year.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[RedBeardedSavage]

13 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

It’s difficult when 6 qbs go in the top 12 picks, and your team had the worst qb for 3 years.  Yet saleh has been all too happy to delegate the offense to anyone else, and that’s not what nfl head coaches can do anymore.  You’ve got to learn offense and i cite belichick as a great example.  Even woody said that saleh has to prove this.  And there’s a video on youtube that has a lot of war room footage and saleh seems very subdued and deferential fwiw.

I don’t necessarily know what his involvement would improve though? 

And mierda, I’d be subdued in meetings if I’m trotting out Zach Wilson every Sunday:

“What’s the game plan this week?”

”Well if they stop our run, or their offense scores 20, we’re dead in the water.”

”So, same as every week?” 

“Yup”

”Alright I’m gonna head over to the defense and put all my energy into making sure we hold them to 17 points.”

Like at some point, scheme almost doesn’t matter on offense when the quarterback play is that bad. And that’s not even taking into account the offensive line injuries. 

Maybe the best or second best offensive mind in the league is Sean McVay and when Stafford went down ‘22, they won 5 games. 

[doitny]

2 minutes ago, Jack Straw said:

 

You’re forgetting Solomon Thomas. Six last year.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

your right

[Sperm Edwards]

21 hours ago, T0mShane said:

If it was up to Saleh, he would have kept LaFleur and fed Zach Wilson to the pigs

@Barry McCockinner I'm in need of an AI-generated image of Brick Top Saleh, please. 

[doitny]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

It’s difficult when 6 qbs go in the top 12 picks, and your team had the worst qb for 3 years.  Yet saleh has been all too happy to delegate the offense to anyone else, and that’s not what nfl head coaches can do anymore.  You’ve got to learn offense and i cite belichick as a great example.  Even woody said that saleh has to prove this.  And there’s a video on youtube that has a lot of war room footage and saleh seems very subdued and deferential fwiw.

why is that difficult? 4 maybe 5 of those teams have kill their franchise for the next 3 years cause thats about the hit rate on 1st rd QBs.

Chicago and NE were celebrating there new future QBs in 2021 and now 3 years later are doing it all over again. and they suffered over those years.

and they could be doing it again in another 3 years. 

we would be there too if we didnt trade for Rodgers.

i know so of you guys wish that was us picking one of those QBs, but how many times to we have to kill our franchise when we get it wrong? im not sorry to be restarting at QB again for the tenth time.

 

[TuscanyTile2]

21 hours ago, Jack Straw said:

Saleh's defense has nine first rounders taking turns roughing the passer on every 3rd & 20 and here we are waxing poetic about his brilliance.

The man can't run a powerpoint presentation, let alone a defense.

Some people on this forum think Saleh built the defense.  I'm confident that you could find plenty of DCs who could do just as well, if not better than Saleh/Ulbrich have with that collection of talent.

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

@Barry McCockinner I'm in need of an AI-generated image of Brick Top Saleh, please. 

@Sperm Edwards I'd love to see how ChatGPT would handle one of your posts.  

"Too much information!  Shutting down".