Are the Jets prioritizing players who are mentally tough?

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

So much is made of the physical aspect of football but there does seem like a shift in the types of players the Jets brought in this year, adding those who are ‘mentally tough’.

QB:  Shifted to the high IQ signal caller w/ clutch leadership traits and away from the prototypical rocket arm with ‘limited’ accuracy we have been drafting (Zach, Morgan)

WR:  Moved away from Mim’s & Moore’s elite physical traits and Lazard’s perceived apathy to William’s and Corley’s contested football abilities.  Guys who fight for the catch and the extra yard.

OL:  Drafted Fashanu, who is reported to be a student of the game with excellent instincts and feel.  A far cry from Becton

CB:  One of the first teams to ever draft a player directly from the CFL.  A guy who overcame depression and is beating the odds

Maybe it’s just a coincidence or overblown but I’m hoping it translates to actual clutch winning football where players are fighting for each other.  

[Warfish]

I hope they are prioritizing players who are good at playing football.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

I hope they are prioritizing players who are good at playing football.

Yeah, I accidentally clicked post without completing my question?  Lol

[peekskill68]

It's a decent question.  If I recall, JD's first draft had like 5 college team captains in the mix, so he is definitely trying to find the right formula in his selection process.  But I also agree with @Warfish that JD needed to pull his head out, stop inflating intangibles like "team leader" or RAS scores, and focus on guys who are good at football...

[Jetkwondo]

34 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

So much is made of the physical aspect of football but there does seem like a shift in the types of players the Jets brought in this year, adding those who are ‘mentally tough’.

QB:  Shifted to the high IQ signal caller w/ clutch leadership traits and away from the prototypical rocket arm with ‘limited’ accuracy we have been drafting (Zach, Morgan)

WR:  Moved away from Mim’s & Moore’s elite physical traits and Lazard’s perceived apathy to William’s and Corley’s contested football abilities.  Guys who fight for the catch and the extra yard.

OL:  Drafted Fashanu, who is reported to be a student of the game with excellent instincts and feel.  A far cry from Becton

CB:  One of the first teams to ever draft a player directly from the CFL.  A guy who overcame depression and is beating the odds

Maybe it’s just a coincidence or overblown but I’m hoping it translates to actual clutch winning football where players are fighting for each other.  

It's no coincidence as I just posted elsewhere on Stiggers that in the new JD1 video it was said that they value Character over play maker. I'm not sure who that was who said it, he was driving in his car while talking about the upcoming draft. It's been noticeable that this formula is building something special. Stiggers is the new  poster child of that who I think will be the surprise of preseason.

I don't think that's at the expense of overlooking play makers, just a bit more work in finding the gems who have both traits.

[UntouchableCrew]

Probably a fair assessment although it feels more like a deliberate effort to move away from headcases/character guys.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

34 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I hope they are prioritizing players who are good at playing football.

Glib, smarmy response. But now unpack what it means to be "good at playing football."

[Bobby816]

I like what we have. But speed is what wins quite a bit these days. And we have only a couple guys who hurt you with speed.

[Matt39]

In order to be good at football and everything that comes with it, mental toughness is a basic foundation. Why the Beton and Wilson selections were awful. 

[Warfish]

14 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Glib, smarmy response. But now unpack what it means to be "good at playing football."

If I need to teach you what being good at playing football means, you might want to revisit all the years you've spent being a football fan and how little you've learned over that time LiL.

I don't see a need to try and evaluate these new players "mental toughness", as if a bunch of ignorant, uninformed chuckleheads on the internet are in any realistic position to do so with any accuracy, lol.

NFL GM's often get sidetracked by "athletic scores" and "mental toughness" and other things separate and distinct from playing good football on a football field vs. the best competition possible, as opposed to running the shuttle cock in shorts in their college gym or giving rehearsed answers in a tightly controlled player interview or having a cute human interest story about their off-field lives.

You may find it 'glib', but after so many years of players that flat out haven't been terribly good at playing pro football (Mims, Zach Wilson, etc.) I hope our GM focused his selections not on good stories or gym short stats, but on players who proved to him in some way they can be good at playing football at the NFL level by being exceptionally good at football at the college level in ways that are likely to translate to the pro game.

And yes, my reply was perhaps glib i.e. "showing little forethought or preparation" insofar as I didn't prepare in any way to answer this (IMO silly) question today, but it was not smarmy i.e. "ingratiating and wheedling in a way that is perceived as insincere or excessive".  I have no interest in ingratiating myself to people here, never have, never will.  I think that word applies far more to our resident E-white knights who love everything the organization does with hyperbolic positivity, as if they were trying to be JD's best e-friend.

 

[derp]

It'll be all the more impressive when being part of the Jets breaks even the mentally tough players.

Kidding, I definitely think there's an emphasis on character. A lot of the buzz after the first draft class was how many team captains they drafted, so this isn't new and I think it's more of a tweak than anything else. There's always been a goal to build a culture here, but I think they were willing to go talent over character early in the draft.

From there I think the Sauce/GW picks really reinforced how valuable it is when your best players also really get after it. You can start to take those talent over character risks earlier when you have an established culture with a strong locker room and they started making those moves before the team was really there. Might be something they can do in 2-3 years if this group is still around.

[#27TheDominator]

1. I am pretty sure that Corley is horrible at contested catches.  He plays tough, but that is after the catch. Lazard certainly did not have "physical traits" and he was the big signing last season.  Moore wasn't much of a traits guy either (small but fast).  He turned out to be a bit of a bitch, but he was supposedly picked on character as the well behaved Kadarius Toney.

2. I think the QB is more a function of looking for mobility and a backup rather than trying to catch lightning with a strong arm.  He is 3rd string at best this year and they seem to be going for guys that can run with Taylor and Travis.

3. Fashanu actually seems like the same kind of good feet guy that Joe D generally targets.  I'm thinking Andre Dillard.  They seemed hung up on LT and I think that Becton was as much a "dancing bear" as Wirfs even though I preferred Wirfs athletic profile.  I was actually expecting him to go more mauler for Fuaga. 

4. Stiggers is a great story, but I don't know how much that translates to character.  He's been through it, but if he couldn't run they wouldn't have taken him.  

We often have these theories on these guys.  They bring guys in and if they buy in great.  If not you end up with another story about weeding out the malcontents.  We keep hearing about it, but new malcontents crop up every day.

[nycdan]

12 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

 

We often have these theories on these guys.  They bring guys in and if they buy in great.  If not you end up with another story about weeding out the malcontents.  We keep hearing about it, but new malcontents crop up every day.

So the Jets are just like JetNation.

[Untouchable]

Literally every dude they drafted gets an A+ in the character department. Just about all of them were team captains as well.

It’s obvious that the fundamental plan of the entire offseason was to transform into more of a physical team on offense. From all of the OL moves and shifting to a gap blocking scheme, adding Williams and Corley to the receiving corps, Allen and Davis being added to the backfield, etc.

The Jets want to get up early, then hammer the sh*t out of you and let the defense do its thing.

[GreenFish]

I don't think this is a this year thing.

Jermaine Johnson had a tough road to the NFL as well. They love his character.

The Lazard pickup was much like the Cobb pickup. It was to make Rodgers transition easier. They are anomalies more than anything.

The move on offense I think has more to do with the departure of LaFleur.

[Larz]

It’s impossible to predict how guys react to seeing 8 million in the bank and then the NY media and Twitter comes after them. 
 

I think you may be reading into something here 

[Mr. Rogers]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I hope they are prioritizing players who are good at playing football.

Lol, bit smart a$$, but valid. It takes both talent and mental toughness.

For me, I am looking at it more as a work ethic and brains thing than "mental toughness", at least with stiggers, Travis, olu, etc. When I think of greats like TB12 or Aaron Donald, not only did they have the toughness and work ethic, but they had some brains and learning capacity to evolve their game. It feels like many of our past picks may have had some work ethic (Becton aside) but not a lot of adaptability. Mims was jacked but never really developed, for example. 

I do worry about whether Corley can evolve his game. He seems very tenacious, but let's hope he's coachable too and not just a gym warrior. 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

30 minutes ago, Warfish said:

If I need to teach you what being good at playing football means, you might want to revisit all the years you've spent being a football fan and how little you've learned over that time LiL.

I don't see a need to try and evaluate these new players "mental toughness", as if a bunch of ignorant, uninformed chuckleheads on the internet are in any realistic position to do so with any accuracy, lol.

NFL GM's often get sidetracked by "athletic scores" and "mental toughness" and other things separate and distinct from playing good football on a football field vs. the best competition possible, as opposed to running the shuttle cock in shorts in their college gym or giving rehearsed answers in a tightly controlled player interview or having a cute human interest story about their off-field lives.

You may find it 'glib', but after so many years of players that flat out haven't been terribly good at playing pro football (Mims, Zach Wilson, etc.) I hope our GM focused his selections not on good stories or gym short stats, but on players who proved to him in some way they can be good at playing football at the NFL level by being exceptionally good at football at the college level in ways that are likely to translate to the pro game.

And yes, my reply was perhaps glib i.e. "showing little forethought or preparation" insofar as I didn't prepare in any way to answer this (IMO silly) question today, but it was not smarmy i.e. "ingratiating and wheedling in a way that is perceived as insincere or excessive".  I have no interest in ingratiating myself to people here, never have, never will.  I think that word applies far more to our resident E-white knights who love everything the organization does with hyperbolic positivity, as if they were trying to be JD's best e-friend.

 

As the OP, I think you might overestimate my own intent to be a super cheerleader.

I always try to be independent even though the emotions of a fan of a perpetually crappy team has made that hard.

But I am talking about the here and now, and try to cut off the emotions of the past.

Speaking logically, part of the main reason that Zach, Mims and Becton were considered boom or bust players .. (who ultimately busted) was because of what is upstairs.

I’m not talking gym rats, I’m talking about the importance that football IQ, mental toughness and other mental traits have on winning football.

We’ve all seen the Jets be great at playing losing football and a lot of that starts upstairs.

- Who wants the ball in the 4th quarter?

- Who will fight for the catch or extra yards?

- Who will quit on their team?

- Who will buckle under pressure (missed throw, dropped pass, dumb penalty)

- Who will rally the troops and fight for their QB?

It’s part of the formula for winning football, I noticed a change and posted my observation for a thoughtful discussion.  Hopefully, it leads to positive things.  

[Integrity28]

The tightest thing Mangini ever did was insist on fillling the room with guys that love football. I think we are seeing some of that here. I think it’s a natural correlation that these guys are also not a bunch of pussies like Becton and Zach.

[GreenFish]

37 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

1. I am pretty sure that Corley is horrible at contested catches.  He plays tough, but that is after the catch. Lazard certainly did not have "physical traits" and he was the big signing last season.  Moore wasn't much of a traits guy either (small but fast).  He turned out to be a bit of a bitch, but he was supposedly picked on character as the well behaved Kadarius Toney.

2. I think the QB is more a function of looking for mobility and a backup rather than trying to catch lightning with a strong arm.  He is 3rd string at best this year and they seem to be going for guys that can run with Taylor and Travis.

3. Fashanu actually seems like the same kind of good feet guy that Joe D generally targets.  I'm thinking Andre Dillard.  They seemed hung up on LT and I think that Becton was as much a "dancing bear" as Wirfs even though I preferred Wirfs athletic profile.  I was actually expecting him to go more mauler for Fuaga. 

4. Stiggers is a great story, but I don't know how much that translates to character.  He's been through it, but if he couldn't run they wouldn't have taken him.  

We often have these theories on these guys.  They bring guys in and if they buy in great.  If not you end up with another story about weeding out the malcontents.  We keep hearing about it, but new malcontents crop up every day.

Yup. Character has always been a high priority for Joe Douglas. It just doesnt always work out.

Zach Wilson was considered a workaholic coming out. Rodgers even had to tell him to not get ahead of himself with how he watches film. Zach was a bust and so everything looks bad.

Like you said, Elijah Moore was considered high character and someone who AJ Brown vouched for. When you are no longer the center of attention, your true self comes out. It was bad scouting.

[JetPotato]

This can only translate into smarter, grittier slogans on the t-shirts.

[#27TheDominator]

36 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Literally every dude they drafted gets an A+ in the character department. Just about all of them were team captains as well.

It’s obvious that the fundamental plan of the entire offseason was to transform into more of a physical team on offense. From all of the OL moves and shifting to a gap blocking scheme, adding Williams and Corley to the receiving corps, Allen and Davis being added to the backfield, etc.

The Jets want to get up early, then hammer the sh*t out of you and let the defense do its thing.

Did anybody actually say that they were shifting to more gap blocking scheme or is that just conjecture based on the guys they signed?  I don't think Fashanu much fits that profile.  The Ravens were running about 50-50 at the end of last year, but maybe that shift is why they let Simpson and Moses loose.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

25 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

Yup. Character has always been a high priority for Joe Douglas. It just doesnt always work out.

Zach Wilson was considered a workaholic coming out. Rodgers even had to tell him to not get ahead of himself with how he watches film. Zach was a bust and so everything looks bad.

Like you said, Elijah Moore was considered high character and someone who AJ Brown vouched for. When you are no longer the center of attention, your true self comes out. It was bad scouting.

I do agree that mental toughness might not be the right word but I do think it’s more than just character.

We need guys who thrive in the big moment rather than what we’ve been seeing.  That is a core part of being a winning playmaker because the game of football is a game of inches.  Very little typically separates a win and a loss.  If we can identify something that gives us an advantage, then great.

 

NY Jets QB mental profile

- Don’t freak out and bail the pocket

- Don’t have a brain spasm and throw at the receiver’s feet or at the dirt

- Don’t melt down and forget the play call

- Try to ignore the ghosts on the field

- Don’t quit on team in middle of the game

- Accurate game winning throws is a must

 

NY Jets WR mental profile

- Catch the ball in clutch situations

- Stay focused and don’t go offsides 2x in the same game

- Breaking arm tackles ‘with gusto’ is preferred

- Fighting for first downs is a requirement

- Avoid trying to choke the OC

- Wait 3 days to let your emotions settle down before requesting a trade 

 

NY Jets OL mental profile

- Don’t get into fights with fans on Social Media

- Stay under 400 pounds

- Act like preventing QB sacks is important to you

- Maturity is good

- Dumb dumb penalties is bad

- Intelligent communication when angry men are stunting or blitzing is critical.  Maybe more than a grunt or pointed finger 

[Trotter]

2 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I do agree that mental toughness might not be the right word but I do think it’s more than just character.

We need guys who thrive in the big moment rather than what we’ve been seeing.  That is a core part of being a winning playmaker because the game of football is a game of inches.  Very little typically separates a win and a loss.  If we can identify something that gives us an advantage, then great.

 

NY Jets QB mental profile

- Don’t freak out and bail the pocket

- Don’t have a brain spasm and throw at the receiver’s feet or at the dirt

- Don’t melt down and forget the play call

- Try to ignore the ghosts on the field

- Don’t quit on team in middle of the game

- Accurate game winning throws is a must

 

NY Jets WR mental profile

- Catch the ball in clutch situations

- Stay focused and don’t go offsides 2x in the same game

- Breaking arm tackles ‘with gusto’ is preferred

- Fighting for first downs is a requirement

- Avoid trying to choke the OC

- Wait 3 days to let your emotions settle down before requesting a trade 

 

NY Jets OL mental profile

- Don’t get into fights with fans on Social Media

- Stay under 400 pounds

- Act like preventing QB sacks is important to you

- Maturity is good

- Most dumb penalties is bad

Good list - serious question - do we have the coaching staff to teach/enforce the above?

Where does PVO, Crows and Eagles fit in?

[Jetkwondo]

33 minutes ago, Mr. Rogers said:

Lol, bit smart a$$, but valid. It takes both talent and mental tou

I do worry about whether Corley can evolve his game. He seems very tenacious, but let's hope he's coachable too and not just a gym warrior. 

I know Corley talked about wanting to show that he can run routes and evolve his game in his interview with Steve Smith. In that interview he seemed coachable, level headed, well spoken and eager to prove that point.  I think his self assessment added to his known YAC abilities left an impression on Smith that he proclaimed him the WR steal of the draft.

[GreenFish]

11 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I do agree that mental toughness might not be the right word but I do think it’s more than just character.

We need guys who thrive in the big moment rather than what we’ve been seeing.  That is a core part of being a winning playmaker because the game of football is a game of inches.  Very little typically separates a win and a loss.  If we can identify something that gives us an advantage, then great.

 

NY Jets QB mental profile

- Don’t freak out and bail the pocket

- Don’t have a brain spasm and throw at the receiver’s feet or at the dirt

- Don’t melt down and forget the play call

- Try to ignore the ghosts on the field

- Don’t quit on team in middle of the game

- Accurate game winning throws is a must

 

NY Jets WR mental profile

- Catch the ball in clutch situations

- Stay focused and don’t go offsides 2x in the same game

- Breaking arm tackles ‘with gusto’ is preferred

- Fighting for first downs is a requirement

- Avoid trying to choke the OC

- Wait 3 days to let your emotions settle down before requesting a trade 

 

NY Jets OL mental profile

- Don’t get into fights with fans on Social Media

- Stay under 400 pounds

- Act like preventing QB sacks is important to you

- Maturity is good

- Dumb dumb penalties is bad

- Intelligent communication when angry men are stunting or blitzing is critical

I agree with wanting all that. It’s just that I dont think you can actually know. Mims looked tough as nails as a prospect for example. People were putting Mims blocking highlight reals.

Aside from Jermaine Johnson and Sitggers, none of the guys we’ve ever drafted have ever been told they are not good enough. We just cant know how guys are going to react when fans are trashing them because they've never experienced that. We dont know how they are going to react when they have to face the fact that they are not even the best at their position on their team. Or how they will react to increased wealth.

I’m sure if Joe Douglas knew Zach couldn't handle pressure or all that stuff, he wouldn’t have drafted him. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

If I need to teach you what being good at playing football means, you might want to revisit all the years you've spent being a football fan and how little you've learned over that time LiL.

I don't see a need to try and evaluate these new players "mental toughness", as if a bunch of ignorant, uninformed chuckleheads on the internet are in any realistic position to do so with any accuracy, lol.

NFL GM's often get sidetracked by "athletic scores" and "mental toughness" and other things separate and distinct from playing good football on a football field vs. the best competition possible, as opposed to running the shuttle cock in shorts in their college gym or giving rehearsed answers in a tightly controlled player interview or having a cute human interest story about their off-field lives.

You may find it 'glib', but after so many years of players that flat out haven't been terribly good at playing pro football (Mims, Zach Wilson, etc.) I hope our GM focused his selections not on good stories or gym short stats, but on players who proved to him in some way they can be good at playing football at the NFL level by being exceptionally good at football at the college level in ways that are likely to translate to the pro game.

And yes, my reply was perhaps glib i.e. "showing little forethought or preparation" insofar as I didn't prepare in any way to answer this (IMO silly) question today, but it was not smarmy i.e. "ingratiating and wheedling in a way that is perceived as insincere or excessive".  I have no interest in ingratiating myself to people here, never have, never will.  I think that word applies far more to our resident E-white knights who love everything the organization does with hyperbolic positivity, as if they were trying to be JD's best e-friend.

 

That's Mr. Chucklehead to you!

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

10 minutes ago, Trotter said:

Good list - serious question - do we have the coaching staff to teach/enforce the above?

Where does PVO, Crows and Eagles fit in?

Are those Saleh phrases?  LOL

I’m not a fan of our Coaching staff so these traits will need to be self enforced by the players.  Meaning it’s in their mental makeup.  

Who knows if this offseason works?  I’m at least a little encouraged that JD seems flexible enough to learn from the many mistakes he’s made.

My interest is in building things .. maybe that’s the entrepreneur in me.  So I look for signs that the team has an evolving strategic plan because individual player decisions  need to fit into a broader blueprint.

If our plan is to get smarter, tougher, clutcher, more physical & less rigid while dumping the dead weight and sunk costs, then that’s better than doing the same thing over again and expecting different results.  

[Warfish]

44 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

As the OP, I think you might overestimate my own intent to be a super cheerleader.

My comment, in this thread, was not aimed at you personally. 

44 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Speaking logically, part of the main reason that Zach, Mims and Becton were considered boom or bust players .. (who ultimately busted) was because of what is upstairs.

Partially.  Becton was also fragile.  Wilson was also just not as talented as his fans wanted to believe.  And Mims was just a bad pick all around, lacking almost everything needed other than his most base physical attributes.

44 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I’m not talking gym rats, I’m talking about the importance that football IQ, mental toughness and other mental traits have on winning football.

One aspect of what makes a good football player.  Not always the most important.  And I'd say one of the poorest defined/understood/identified by Fans.  Doing well or fulfilling your list doesn't mean they were mentally tough per se.

44 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

It’s part of the formula for winning football, I noticed a change and posted my observation for a thoughtful discussion.  Hopefully, it leads to positive things.  

A part, yes.  But you could seen all the "overcame adversity in their private lives", team captain, feeds homeless kids "mentally togh" guys in the world......if they're lacking other things, like drive and motivation (which isn't mental toughness), self-confidence and self-assuredness (also not mental toughness), the base physical traits (a mentally tough 5'2" 8.9 40-running WR will not succeed) and the athletic traits required, they will still not succeed despite all that mental toughness.

That's why, despite LiL's criticism, I stand by my comment.  The best evaluation of the whole package.....is to see if they were good at playing football in the college years, against the best competition. Trying to focus on one at the expense of the other factors is a route to failure.  A team full of Nuns isn't going to win the Super Bowl, despite being mentally tough, leaders and great amazing real life people.

So I'll repeat, I hope JD isn't focusing on just mental toughness, or dramatic life stories, or good characters (much as I want good character guys), or just athleticism in a gym, but instead is looking for players who have shown evidence of all the traits by kicking ass in college football against the best opponents possible at the highest levels.  

[Warfish]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

That's Mr. Chucklehead to you!

Yes Sir, Mr. Chucklead Sir.

[David Harris]

JD has put together probably the best Jets roster in decades.  The hope is he’s learned from taking players with questionable mental makeups that you hope are going to work out when you draft them.

Mekhi - had a weed thing in college with weight concerns. JD’s draft phone call to him, “remember what we talked about” staying straight

Mims- dumb as rocks - super pouty on draft day and every day after 

Moore- I didn’t see that one coming

Zach - wasn’t a captain at BYU, had leadership and accountability concerns in college 

Hindsight isn’t pretty.  None of those guys with pre draft questions worked out so maybe he’s learned and is only taking guys with unimpeachable character. 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

27 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I do agree that mental toughness might not be the right word but I do think it’s more than just character.

We need guys who thrive in the big moment rather than what we’ve been seeing.  That is a core part of being a winning playmaker because the game of football is a game of inches.  Very little typically separates a win and a loss.  If we can identify something that gives us an advantage, then great.

It's guys who love football and the passion to do great and who are willing to give what it takes to be part of the solution and not the problem. 

G. Wilson has been frustrated with this offense since he got here but not once has he caused issues in the locker room or asking for a trade (fingers crossed, not yet).  Moore immediately cries amongst a win streak that he's not getting the ball. That's not being part of the solution. 

Mims was just straight up lazy and doesn't want to put the work in. 

Basically - find the guys who don't crumble under adversity. Find the ones who thrive. 

I feel like part of drafting is 80% knowing how to read people and good judge of character. Too often they get blinded by the traits and skills.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

13 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

I agree with wanting all that. It’s just that I dont think you can actually know. Mims looked tough as nails as a prospect for example. People were putting Mims blocking highlight reals.

Aside from Jermaine Johnson and Sitggers, none of the guys we’ve ever drafted have ever been told they are not good enough. We just cant know how guys are going to react when fans are trashing them because they've never experienced that. We dont know how they are going to react when they have to face the fact that they are not even the best at their position on their team. Or how they will react to increased wealth.

I’m sure if Joe Douglas knew Zach couldn't handle pressure or all that stuff, he wouldn’t have drafted him. 

My take was some of these guys were boom or bust prospects because of the mental side.

1. Becton’s maturity

2. Zach’s processing speed.  Concerns why he wasn’t voted a captain by his teammates

3. Mim’s lazy route running

I do agree that sometimes you just don’t know, maybe in the case of Elijah Moore.

In any event-  IF football IQ, character, competitiveness, clutchness are more heavily emphasized, that might be a good thing to turn this franchise around. 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

My comment, in this thread, was not aimed at you personally. 

Partially.  Becton was also fragile.  Wilson was also just not as talented as his fans wanted to believe.  And Mims was just a bad pick all around, lacking almost everything needed other than his most base physical attributes.

One aspect of what makes a good football player.  Not always the most important.  And I'd say one of the poorest defined/understood/identified by Fans.  Doing well or fulfilling your list doesn't mean they were mentally tough per se.

A part, yes.  But you could seen all the "overcame adversity in their private lives", team captain, feeds homeless kids "mentally togh" guys in the world......if they're lacking other things, like drive and motivation (which isn't mental toughness), self-confidence and self-assuredness (also not mental toughness), the base physical traits (a mentally tough 5'2" 8.9 40-running WR will not succeed) and the athletic traits required, they will still not succeed despite all that mental toughness.

That's why, despite LiL's criticism, I stand by my comment.  The best evaluation of the whole package.....is to see if they were good at playing football in the college years, against the best competition. Trying to focus on one at the expense of the other factors is a route to failure.  A team full of Nuns isn't going to win the Super Bowl, despite being mentally tough, leaders and great amazing real life people.

So I'll repeat, I hope JD isn't focusing on just mental toughness, or dramatic life stories, or good characters (much as I want good character guys), or just athleticism in a gym, but instead is looking for players who have shown evidence of all the traits by kicking ass in college football against the best opponents possible at the highest levels.  

Agreed.  I never said it was the only thing.

Most of these players kicked ass in college.

JD’s job is to project how college performance translates into the NFL.  
Why did guys like Zach, Becton, Mims ultimately fail?  Why did others who dominated the SEC fail?  Are there any mental attributes that correlate with a greater probability of success?

Maybe the better way of saying it is the mental side of the game rather than being too specific with any one or group of traits.

It’s a big part of it, helping form the culture and offensive/defensive identity.  The difference between a clutch win and another head scratching SOJ loss.

Anyways, time for lunch

[#27TheDominator]

Clutch is an odd thing.  To me there are two main points.  The first is confidence.  When things go well, it is easy to be "clutch."  You expect to be open, the have the ball delivered on time, to make the catch.  Give me those three things and it is much easier to ignore the 220 lb safety that is waiting to remove your spleen.  DAMHIK.  

The other is knowing your job and doing it.  Most things are pretty simple.  Block this guy.  Read your cues and run the proper route.  If you are open fine, if not you are presumably drawing coverage for some other ****er.  When things are going bad sometimes guys try to "do more" it's an admirable thought, but if you do that, maybe in trying to get open you throw the timing off.  The QB misses you, or has to spend an extra beat looking and it can throw off the timing and that chain reaction ****s the play.  It was Sparano's saying - Know and know you know.  It sounds dumb, but if you are confident in what you are supposed to do, you will do it and do it faster.  If all eleven do that, good things will happen.

I don't think there is that much "clutch" that actually boils down to guys shrinking in the big moment, or being scared to succeed.  I think more of it is not actually knowing what they are supposed to do, exactly so that they can do it quickly, decisively and confidently.  Once the ball is in the air, I am literally always thinking "MINE!" whether it is a pass or a rebound, but if I have to wonder about my positioning or why some other sh*t head is in the way, sometimes you lose that train of thought.  I think that is a big key to coaching.  You need guys to do what you want and have confidence it will work.  If they don't they tend to do something else and that ****s up everything.