Hypothetical: Who Would You Trade?

[Bleedin Green]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So since every team knows this about RBs, which team out there is giving us a “big return” on Breece, and what would that look like?

To be clear, "big" in relative terms for the position.  I agree he'd likely be given a lower offer than others, but if doing it today, while he is still young and on his rookie deal, they could probably get a respectable trade offer for him from some team in a win-now mode.  That offer likely dives dramatically within just a couple of years though, so it's more a matter that this is probably the time that Hall is at his peak value, whatever that may turn out to be.

Besides, I know at least one dipsh*t GM who wildly overvalues the RB position every year, the majority of whom he chooses turning out to be completely washed up... too bad he's currently with the Jets though.

[JKlecko]

That's a no-brainer.  It would be Breece Hall for a number of reasons.  First, one doesn't need a "stud" RB.  One can win quite well with RB by committee.  Second, it looks like Allen and Davis could probably easily replace Breece and give the Jets similar results.  Third, Breece had a ton of carries in college, and RBs usually have shorter careers than CBs, WRs or Edges.  Fourth, Sauce is the top CB in the NFL, they don't grow on trees, and CB is more important than RB.  Fifth, G. Wilson is one of the top WRs in the NFL, the Jets have a scarcity of quality WRs, and WR is more important than RB.  Sixth, JJ is an ascending Edge who is equally good in rushing the QB and stopping the run, those types don't grow on trees, and Edge is much more important than RB.

[JKlecko]

7 hours ago, Alka said:

First, this is a awful decision to make.  My vote would be to trade Johnson, since the other 3 could end up being All Pro candidates for the majority of their careers, and Johnson is not in that category in my opinion.

I disagree.  See my post for the reasons why.

[JKlecko]

6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The answer is Sauce. You can get a minimum of two ones for him and the Jets play zone all day anyway. We beat the Eagles with two corners who no one can name. 

No way.  Your reasoning on this is an epic fail.  Sauce is the best of the group.  He is a large part of what makes the D so great.  Hall is the correct answer.

[JKlecko]

6 hours ago, viffer said:

Maybe, but an elite WR will cost you at least 2x what an elite RB will cost you, and the WR will have a much greater impact on the game.

My God, the poster you're responding to is never right on anything.

[JiFtheOracle]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Not gonna go back and forth, but the only way "it doesn't factor" is if you were cutting one to make room. 

Trading inherently includes return value by it's very definition.  The thread is literally titled "who do you trade".

But agree to disagree at this point, lol. SMH.

Did you read his post or just the title?  Because he asked which of the 4 who were drafted in the same year, who would you trade so you can create enough cap space to sign the others?  In this scenario, I dont care about return.  I care about creating space.  

 

[JKlecko]

6 hours ago, Warfish said:

As of today, and in order of trade preference (for me):

1. J. Johnson.

2. Sauce.

3. Hall.

4. Wilson.

Trading JJ is easy in my book.  Same for Sauce. 

-J.J. is a JAG/just serviceable player in my book, easily replaced. 

-Sauce is worth more in trade than he is not making INT's.

No way I trade elite O assets, but if I had to I trade Hall first, RB's are easier to find than WR's.

Defense doesn't win titles, Offense does.  

And yes, before the neg-reps flow, I'm well aware my view is unpopular here amongst the throngs of "elite D is bestest!" guys who always seem to think we're just one new 1st round draft pick Defender away from a title despite consistently being dead last in the league of scoring Offense lol.

I'm all about the offense kind of guy, but your reasoning is a fail.  Johnson and Sauce are two of the best players we have and they play two of the most important positions.  RB is the least important position of those listed, one doesn't need a stud RB, one can win very easily with a RB by committee, Breece had a ton of carries in college, and in general RBs have shorter careers than CBs, WRs or Edges.  Especially since the Jets drafted Allen and Davis, Breece would be missed the least, and in fact, if things get really tight with the cap and extending players, if Allen and Davis play really well this season, Breece could be allowed to walk in FA.

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, JustInFudge said:

Did you read his post or just the title?  Because he asked which of the 4 who were drafted in the same year, who would you trade so you can create enough cap space to sign the others?  In this scenario, I dont care about return.  I care about creating space.  

 

So you don't care about return in a hypothetical trade.  Ok.

You seem to be on an island on this one, everyone else replying seemed to get that the OP question involved two seperate but related things (cap space and trade value, with an implicit "can we do without them/replace them" thrown in as well) and not just one, but of course you're free to answer in any way that you choose Fudgey ol' pal.  

Personally, under that criteria, I tend to agree with our friend @Jetsfan80.  The only answer then is Hall, which makes for a boring thread.  No one pays a RB if they're trying to keep cap space for edges, WR's and shutdown corners and they don't care about return on trade (which would be minimal for Hall).

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

If projected return is not a factor, I agree that the easy answer is Breece, and anyone who voted someone else should be mocked.

But since a poll with only one right answer is boring, to Warfish’s point, return was absolutely a factor in my mind, and I didn’t think this discussion would make much sense if you don’t factor it in.  

Because I have no real interest in trading any of them, return was the BIGGEST factor in my answer. 

[JiFtheOracle]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

If projected return is not a factor, I agree that the easy answer is Breece, and anyone who voted someone else should be mocked.

But since a poll with only one right answer is boring, to Warfish’s point, return was absolutely a factor in my mind, and I didn’t think this discussion would make much sense if you don’t factor it in.  

So then why dont you and @Warfish start your own F'ing thread!?!?!?!?!?!  I'm just answering my og home boy, @Barry McCockinner

[JKlecko]

5 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Kind of a weird bunch of responses.  

Hall will be due first.  The least important and easiest to replace is Johnson, but he would probably net the least.  If the return is the same then Johnson should be the one, but it won't.  I honestly lean towards moving WIlson since WR move pretty often and more will be available, but we are so bad at getting them, so who knows.

I disagree.  JJ is not the least important.  He's underrated and is very good vs the pass and the run.  Edge is 100x more important than RB.  One  can win with RB by Committee with 2-3 average RBs.  One cannot get a strong pass rush with 2-3 average Edges.

[JiFtheOracle]

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So you don't care about return in a hypothetical trade.  Ok.

You seem to be on an island on this one, everyone else replying seemed to get that the OP question involved two seperate but related things (cap space and trade value, with an implicit "can we do without them/replace them" thrown in as well) and not just one, but of course you're free to answer in any way that you choose Fudgey ol' pal.  

Personally, under that criteria, I tend to agree with our friend @Jetsfan80.  The only answer then is Hall, which makes for a boring thread.  No one pays a RB if they're trying to keep cap space for edges, WR's and shutdown corners and they don't care about return on trade (which would be minimal for Hall).

 

4 minutes ago, JustInFudge said:

So then why dont you and @Warfish start your own F'ing thread!?!?!?!?!?!  I'm just answering my og home boy, @Barry McCockinner

[Rich Thornburgh]

5 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Because I have no real interest in trading any of them, return was the BIGGEST factor in my answer. 

The biggest return by far would be for GW or Sauce.  

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So since every team knows this about RBs, which team out there is giving us a “big return” on Breece, and what would that look like?

Late 1st and 3rd maybe like I mentioned. A team like the Chiefs, Bengals or Dallas. Someone like that. 

He's still just 24 and only played 2 full seasons(after this year). This isn't like trading for a guy at the end of his second contract.

[slimjasi]

9 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

The biggest return by far would be for GW or Sauce.  

agreed, which is one reason I voted for Sauce. 

[Barry McCockinner]

14 minutes ago, JustInFudge said:

So then why dont you and @Warfish start your own F'ing thread!?!?!?!?!?!  I'm just answering my og home boy, @Barry McCockinner

Why wouldn't you factor in projected return? The objective is to save sweet, sweet cap space but that is achieved by trading any of the 4 rather than extending them. You are more stubborn than I am sometimes.

[Claymation]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

If projected return is not a factor, I agree that the easy answer is Breece, and anyone who voted someone else should be mocked.

But since a poll with only one right answer is boring, to Warfish’s point, return was absolutely a factor in my mind, and I didn’t think this discussion would make much sense if you don’t factor it in.  

The question is "Who would you trade?" And I had to pick one. It didn't say not to be boring.

Breece has already had a season ending injury. He plays a position that doesn't age all that well. And trading cornerstones for firsts get you Dee Milner.

The team found a "Revis" in Sauce. A "Toon" in Wilson, and 3/4's of Abraham. While Breece may turn out to be Freeman or Curtis, I believe of the 4, he will burn out the fastest. I would hope they keep all 4, but replacing Hall's skillset will be easier than the other 3.

 

[Beerfish]

Sauce.

You are going to get more value for him than probably anyone else.

Teams like KC just pay other players and let their top end cbs go when they have to, they have done it about 3 times now.

RBS are super low value you are not going to get enough for Breece.

JJ you will not get good vale for.

[Lith]

If I had to trade one, it is JJ.  We have been so desperate for offensive playmakers, and do not have a staff that seems to be capable of developing players on that side of the ball.  We have two studs, I want to hang on to them.   We use a heavy rotation on the DL.  Sauce is the better player and he plays 100% of snaps in the games he plays.

I don't want to move him, but JJ is the odd man out, imo in this scenario.

[#27TheDominator]

45 minutes ago, JKlecko said:

I disagree.  JJ is not the least important.  He's underrated and is very good vs the pass and the run.  Edge is 100x more important than RB.  One  can win with RB by Committee with 2-3 average RBs.  One cannot get a strong pass rush with 2-3 average Edges.

That's fine.  I disagree with your disagreement.  I disagree that JJ is in any way as special as the other three.  Pass rush is important, but I don't think Johnson is anything great as a pass rusher.  I think he graded as like 34th out of 59 qualifiers by PFF or whoever does those rankings.  If you don't like PFF and want the eye test, he was obviously worse at pass rush than Huff and IMO McDonald and the Jets just got someone considerably better for a future 3rd rounder.  Johnson is a solid, very good DE and fairly versatile.  He is also about 2 1/2 years older than Breece.

You think RB by committee is so easy?  How quickly you forget the Jets falling off a cliff when Hall went down and how the offense picked up when Hackett inexplicably finally realized how good he was.  They have other good DE.  Until Braelon Allen proves otherwise I am not moving Breece.  I would trade Johnson for any of the others.  I do think it should be possible to keep them all and they should try, but if there are better options? Sure, why not?

[JiFtheOracle]

53 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Why wouldn't you factor in projected return? The objective is to save sweet, sweet cap space but that is achieved by trading any of the 4 rather than extending them. You are more stubborn than I am sometimes.

You SOB you

[Doggin94it]

Johnson, only because of the pipeline at his position; if I need to deal him away today, I'm extending Reddick and leaning more on McDonald as my No. 2 DE. The other option is Hall, who is likely to have the shortest career of the bunch and is easiest to replace with an at least good enough NFL level starter - but he's an elite elite RB who can be the engine of the offense.

Wilson and Sauce are tier-1 guys at premium positions, no way I ever deal them

[Dcat]

9 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

This is a hypothetical and you must trade one.

We drafted Sauce, G. Wilson, J Johnson and Breece Hall in 2022. Assume they've all remained healthy and continue to ascend as players. Joe Douglas is in the difficult situation of having to trade one of them in order to save that sweet, sweet cap space. 

Who would you trade and why?

No.  Not yet. No vote.

Also... I hope people factor in the actual trade values here...  Hall may be the first on one's list to go due to cheap/easier replacement, but Jets would get way less in draft capital than they would for a premium position.   

[Sperm Edwards]

8 hours ago, Warfish said:

As of today, and in order of trade preference (for me):

1. J. Johnson.

2. Sauce.

3. Hall.

4. Wilson.

Trading JJ is easy in my book.  Same for Sauce. 

-J.J. is a JAG/just serviceable player in my book, easily replaced. 

-Sauce is worth more in trade than he is not making INT's.

No way I trade elite O assets, but if I had to I trade Hall first, RB's are easier to find than WR's.

Defense doesn't win titles, Offense does.  

And yes, before the neg-reps flow, I'm well aware my view is unpopular here amongst the throngs of "elite D is bestest!" guys who always seem to think we're just one new 1st round draft pick Defender away from a title despite consistently being dead last in the league of scoring Offense lol.

Agree. Easy answer. 

If I'm taking this as which to not spend cap space on, JJII is the easiest to replace of the four, as he's the least unicorny.

I wouldn't go so far as to say he's a JAG. I really like JJII and he's a damn solid end. That said, if I'm choosing among a WR who can consistently put up 1100 yards with Zach Wilson & other trash at QB, arguably the game's best corner, and the 2nd-best all-around RB in the game who's a threat to score on any play from anywhere, and a DE who's not a pass rushing demon who terrorizes QBs? Come on.

The only rational answer otherwise is Sauce because of the greater trade return he'd command. But in terms of which can the Jets find another & plug him in without a visible dropoff? Easily it's JJII, and again I'm saying this as someone who has no interest in trading him away. FFS they just got Reddick for a 4th round pick. Keep seeking really good 29-30 year-old ends whose price tag will be a lot less just because they no longer have 5-8 years left in them, like that even matters in a 1-3 season window. Keep replacing him with 29-32 year-old guys like Reddick, JPP, Floyd, Clowney, Campbell, etc.

The difference between the longer remaining career for JJII vs. the shorter term of a post-NYG JPP isn't worth losing one of the unicorns.

Easy answer.

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, JKlecko said:

No way.  Your reasoning on this is an epic fail.  Sauce is the best of the group.  He is a large part of what makes the D so great.  Hall is the correct answer.

You’d maybe get a second round pick for Hall, which would obviously not be worth it for a stud RB on a rookie deal. Sauce is obviously great, but he’s the one who would bring back the max return but whose loss you could compensate for. 

[chirorob]

10 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

This is a hypothetical and you must trade one.

We drafted Sauce, G. Wilson, J Johnson and Breece Hall in 2022. Assume they've all remained healthy and continue to ascend as players. Joe Douglas is in the difficult situation of having to trade one of them in order to save that sweet, sweet cap space. 

Who would you trade and why?

Wilson

WR are getting mega money, a rookie can typically step in and produce.  Sauce is a unicorn out there, no way I let him go.

[32EBoozer]

7 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

show me the people talking about him like he's a 15 sack guy. why do people do this?

We’ll have a better idea of his trajectory by the end of the season 

[CanadaSteve]

10 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

This is a hypothetical and you must trade one.

We drafted Sauce, G. Wilson, J Johnson and Breece Hall in 2022. Assume they've all remained healthy and continue to ascend as players. Joe Douglas is in the difficult situation of having to trade one of them in order to save that sweet, sweet cap space. 

Who would you trade and why?

Breece Hall.

Is he amazing?  Yes.  We drafted a RB last year an two this year.  RB's are the easiest to replace.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You’d maybe get a second round pick for Hall, which would obviously not be worth it for a stud RB on a rookie deal. Sauce is obviously great, but he’s the one who would bring back the max return but whose loss you could compensate for. 

Seems great until we use one of those 1st rounders to replace him with Caleb Farley or Eric Stokes, just as DJ Reed starts to visibly show his inevitable decline. 

The advantage in swapping end/edge guys is you can still find a number of still really good starters 30+ because they can still play at a high level into their 30s a lot more commonly than corners. i.e. you can still get premium-level production for a lot less than premium-level pay because they don't have 5-7 years left.

Youth at such positions is a badly overvalued trait by most GMs whose typical tenure is less than that anyway: I mean, it's nice & I'd happily take it if it happens where we get 10 years of solid starting out of a draft pick, but who really cares if anyone - other than a solid/stud QB - is still starting here upwards of 7 years after his rookie contract ends, and with all the injuries and influx of new talent, what percentage play through a full second contract to its natural end anyhow? 

Derek Carr had so many more starter years left in his career when Tom Brady was winning another ring in his prostate exam years in Tampa, right along with NFL-oldies like JPP, Suh, Gronk, Antonio Brown, etc.

Typically my answer would be the RB, but that's because most are only good if the line is good. This guy rips off 50 yarders all over with a line that changes every week & isn't good at any point in it, on top of teams being able to stack the box on him because of the QB. Plus he's going to be just 23 this season, and usually my reluctance to pay a RB on a 2nd contract is because they're a few years older than Breece will be. Also by then Rodgers will be retired, and a dangerous dual-threat RB will be a best pal to whichever unready QB they draft next. 

[32EBoozer]

Voted JJ. Breece will require anywhere from $12-$15 per. If JJ develops, he’d cost $20+ per but if he’s a top 15 DE then he’d get some value back in the range of a #1 with a year or two left on his rookie deal. Keep developing players along the DL.

Best scenario, as someone stated, Jordan Travis becomes the next Stroud or Goff. Then we can afford keeping everyone when AR exits

[T0mShane]

30 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Seems great until we use one of those 1st rounders to replace him with Caleb Farley or Eric Stokes, just as DJ Reed starts to visibly show his inevitable decline. 

The advantage in swapping end/edge guys is you can still find a number of still really good starters 30+ because they can still play at a high level into their 30s a lot more commonly than corners. i.e. you can still get premium-level production for a lot less than premium-level pay because they don't have 5-7 years left.

Youth at such positions is a badly overvalued trait by most GMs whose typical tenure is less than that anyway: I mean, it's nice & I'd happily take it if it happens where we get 10 years of solid starting out of a draft pick, but who really cares if anyone - other than a solid/stud QB - is still starting here upwards of 7 years after his rookie contract ends, and with all the injuries and influx of new talent, what percentage play through a full second contract to its natural end anyhow? 

Derek Carr had so many more starter years left in his career when Tom Brady was winning another ring in his prostate exam years in Tampa, right along with NFL-oldies like JPP, Suh, Gronk, Antonio Brown, etc.

Typically my answer would be the RB, but that's because most are only good if the line is good. This guy rips off 50 yarders all over with a line that changes every week & isn't good at any point in it, on top of teams being able to stack the box on him because of the QB. Plus he's going to be just 23 this season, and usually my reluctance to pay a RB on a 2nd contract is because they're a few years older than Breece will be. Also by then Rodgers will be retired, and a dangerous dual-threat RB will be a best pal to whichever unready QB they draft next. 

I hear you and mostly agree, but similar to my rationale for holding on to Hall, I wonder what Jermaine Johnson would draw on the open market. He’s a good, solid player who hustles and all that, but I don’t know if he’s viewed as a true pass-rushing EDGE guy that’d get you a decent return back, and if you’re not reaping a haul, it’s better just to keep him, I guess. I think Sauce would merit that haul, even though it’d suck to lose him. 

 

[derp]

I think you kind of need to factor in the trade value and the contract - and I think the two there are somewhat aligned. Premium positions are going to get a bump for both.

The hardest one to make a case to trade is Hall, IMO. He’ll probably be the cheapest and return the least and is a true difference maker despite playing a non premium position. For those who say backs are easy to replace, it’s easy to just plug someone in but guys who move the needle like Hall aren’t easy to find. Just keep him.

I’d probably trade Johnson. I think he gets the next least on the trade market but with edge contracts I’d guess he’s closer to Sauce contract wise than we give it credit for. He’s a good player but I don’t think a true needle mover and they keep throwing assets on the defensive line anyway. Different position but kind of view it like the 49ers trading Buckner a few years ago. Defense will be fine and he’ll probably get a surprisingly good return.

You could make a case to trade Wilson in that his contract will be ridiculous with what’s happening in the WR market - assuming it doesn’t correct before he signs. Contract could get tricky as he’s not worth beating the best deal so that would be interesting. That said, tough sell for me to get rid of an offensive playmaker when I’d like to watch this franchise move into the 21st century on the offensive side of the ball. I also think he’s got good leadership traits and appreciate the competitiveness.

Case to trade Sauce is probably that he returns the most but his contract should be reasonable and he’s an elite player. Easy to just reset the corner market with him, move along, and watch the deal age well once its beat shortly thereafter.

[Barry McCockinner]

If Jermaine Johnson doesn't get 15 sacks this year I'm getting a Vernon Gholston tattoo on my face.

[JKlecko]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

You’d maybe get a second round pick for Hall, which would obviously not be worth it for a stud RB on a rookie deal. Sauce is obviously great, but he’s the one who would bring back the max return but whose loss you could compensate for. 

The point of trading one of them was NOT to get the greatest return.  The point of the exercise was which ones were more valuable to the Jets and who would you rather pay.  We know that Sauce is the best CB in the NFL.  Both 1st round picks (or whatever they received in return) could wind up being busts, or just meh, or maybe only pretty good.  They could trade Hall and wouldn't lose much and would still be a contender.  If they traded Sauce, Wilson or JJ, they would take a step back, maybe several.

If the Jets were a veteran team and Sauce, Wilson, JJ and Breece were older, and the Jets were thinking about a rebuild, then that might be a different story.  Then maybe you trade the one for which you'd get the most in return, but that's not where the team is now.

[TuscanyTile2]

10 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

lol wut?

so you admit there aren't actually people talking about him the way you claimed, right? why did you say that bro?

LMAO on the new profile pic!