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Will Vilma be a New York Jet in 2008?

ECURB

By ECURB
in NY Jets Forum

Will Vilma be a New York Jet in 2008?  

1 member has voted

  1. 1. Will Vilma be a New York Jet in 2008?


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Gibbon

Gibbon

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He will want out a system that hurts his stats and the pay check he gets when he negotiates his second contract. The team will be ready to replace him with Harris (or someone) and use his value to fill gaps to make a serious super bowl run in 08.

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Ghost

Ghost

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He will want out a system that hurts his stats and the pay check he gets when he negotiates his second contract. The team will be ready to replace him with Harris (or someone) and use his value to fill gaps to make a serious super bowl run in 08.

Harris didn't do SQUAT yet, you have to earn your spot in the NFL.

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ECURB

ECURB

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He will want out a system that hurts his stats and the pay check he gets when he negotiates his second contract. The team will be ready to replace him with Harris (or someone) and use his value to fill gaps to make a serious super bowl run in 08.

Why not replace him with Shlegal?

He will be cheap as a FA that sat out for all of 07'... lol

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The Troll

The Troll

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Can't say anything without seeing him play.

If he's not better than last year, then he probably won't be a Jet. The entire defense had better be better this season. If they aren't, that falls on Mangini, not Vilma. He has had two years to bring in players that fit his scheme. If the scheme still fails, that's on him. I would really hate to lose a great talent just because a head coach is stubborn.

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124

124

Posted
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After another subpar season as a 34 ILB the Jets are going to want to get something for Vilma from a team who runs a 43 MLB before he departs to a team on his own after the 2008 season. He will be donning 51 for another franchise in 2008.

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Gibbon

Gibbon

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I think you guys are missing the essential point (which I tried to make in my first post) that Vilma will likely want out of New York. The 08 season will be the last on his contract (I think) and if the Jets dont move him he will likely walk after the 08 season to a team that plays the 4-3 where he can excel again. This will be further motivation for the Jets to trade him while his value is still high and they can get value from him.

I dont think I ever said that Harris had done anything to earn the job yet, but he was obviously drafted to be a long term solution at ILB and he is more physically suited to the job than Vilma.

Vilma plays (and likely improves) this season, but is traded because he is a bad fit for the system and because he wants out.

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ECURB

ECURB

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I think you guys are missing the essential point (which I tried to make in my first post) that Vilma will likely want out of New York. The 08 season will be the last on his contract (I think) and if the Jets dont move him he will likely walk after the 08 season to a team that plays the 4-3 where he can excel again. This will be further motivation for the Jets to trade him while his value is still high and they can get value from him.

I dont think I ever said that Harris had done anything to earn the job yet, but he was obviously drafted to be a long term solution at ILB and he is more physically suited to the job than Vilma.

Vilma plays (and likely improves) this season, but is traded because he is a bad fit for the system and because he wants out.

So you think Vilma is a bad fit, but Schlegal has a chance?

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Gibbon

Gibbon

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So you think Vilma is a bad fit, but Schlegal has a chance?

What I think is that Schlegel is more of a fit physically for the position than Vilma. I also think that after this year it will be clear to Vilma and the team that he isnt the solution at ILB and that both parties will be better served by a trade.

It seems like the Jets have given up on Schlegel, so we'll probably never get a chance to see if he would be better at stopping the run than Vilma. However, its hard to imagine an ILB on the team right now that is less physically suited to helping the Jets improve their run defense than Vilma with the exception of Blake Castanzo.

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gang_green03

gang_green03

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I think that he'll improve in the system and will be around next season. I wish we had a true NT and better d-line so we could put him in the best situation to see what he can do.

However, like others have said, if he regresses or doesn't show any significant improvement than we should trade him for a top 15 pick and no less.

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#90

#90

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Love Vilma. Period. BUT, he is a pure 4-3 middle LB. He is way to small for the 3-4. With each passing game it becomes more obvious. He gets swallowed up by guards on every play. He simply is not big enough. Hopefully, in the off-season, we can trade him for a boat load of draft picks or one real high first rounder.

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green_blood

green_blood

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Well, if he could get a good NT, it would be a different story, DeWayne fails in doing his job, swallowing up two o lineman to let the linebackers do their job, he still tries to pass rush, just eat up the guards you big dummy. The day Vilma is not a Jet will be the worst day I have ever had in my sport watching life. Bryan Thomas has seemingly resurrected his career, but I still feel right now this team is still built for 4-3, and would do better as a whole in a 4-3.

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#27TheDominator

#27TheDominator

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Well, if he could get a good NT, it would be a different story, DeWayne fails in doing his job, swallowing up two o lineman to let the linebackers do their job, he still tries to pass rush, just eat up the guards you big dummy. The day Vilma is not a Jet will be the worst day I have ever had in my sport watching life. Bryan Thomas has seemingly resurrected his career, but I still feel right now this team is still built for 4-3, and would do better as a whole in a 4-3.

There are two guards and a center. Robertson can't take them all on and if he could people on here would still be complaining that he didn't get sacks. Vilma has to take on some lineman and he has to make plays upfield. I don't care how fast he is he can't run around the guard to make a tackle 8 yards downfield. He is a nice player, but I think he is overrated even as a 4-3 MLB. Hopefully, he can make me eat my words, but it won't be by registering 120 tackles, it will be by stuffing the run and making tackles for a loss or <3 yards.

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Gibbon

Gibbon

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Well, if he could get a good NT, it would be a different story, DeWayne fails in doing his job, swallowing up two o lineman to let the linebackers do their job, he still tries to pass rush, just eat up the guards you big dummy. The day Vilma is not a Jet will be the worst day I have ever had in my sport watching life. Bryan Thomas has seemingly resurrected his career, but I still feel right now this team is still built for 4-3, and would do better as a whole in a 4-3.

I see this -- poor NT play -- defense of Vilma quite a bit and while it is not without some merit, it does not explain the majority of Vilma's problems in the 3-4. Yes, ideally the NT should be able to force double teams giving the LBs some freedom to move, but no NT no matter how big or skillful is going to be able to provide the ILBs this kind of protection all or even most of the time. That is why 3-4 ILBs are bigger more physical players who can effectively take on guards and lead backs at or near the LOS. Four guys on the line are never going to be able to occupy six linemen and a lead back giving the one or both of the LBs protection so they can flow to the play unblocked and make the tackle on ever down. Offensive Coordinators and line coaches block 3-4s differently and have ways of making sure that a good bit of the time a lineman gets to one or both of the ILBs. So, a good bit of the time Vilma is going to have to contend with a bigger guy -- G, T. FB, TE -- blocking him.

In addition, even if the D line provides this protection on 40% of the plays one of the ILBs still has to deal -- in many cases -- with a FB, a TE, or a TE lined up as FB coming through the hole. Sometimes the hole will be on Vilma's side and to effectively help the team make the stop he is going to have to meet that lead blocker at or very near the LOS, stuff him back into the hole (or shed him and make the tackle), giving the other ILB the chance (along with the D line) to flow to the play and make the tackle for short or negative yardage. I dont think that Vilma is a physical match for most FBs and TE's in a situation where they are running at full speed toward one another in a restricted space. This is simply not the strength of Vilmas game. His strengths are finesse and speed not size and power.

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Ten

Ten

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After watching the Vikings game it's clear that Vilma hasn't improved in the 3-4.You need to be able to take on linemen as a 3-4 ILB and Vilma can't,he gets blown several yards down the field that linemen.IMO David Harris is already a better 3-4 ILB than vilma.

Vilma is a great 4-3 MLB,but he's a poor 3-4 ILB.He's probably the worst player in our front 7.

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drago

drago

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Again, as much as I don't want to see him go, if he doesn't fit our system and we can get good value for him, he should be traded away. Hopefully way out of conference.

BZ

trade him to GB. that would be a nice Linebacking corp, barnett, vilma, hawk (barnett is outside right?).

it would be the best of both worlds for me, i'd get to watch vilma on sundays, and the jets would get more draft picks.

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Sperm Edwards

Sperm Edwards

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There are two guards and a center. Robertson can't take them all on and if he could people on here would still be complaining that he didn't get sacks. Vilma has to take on some lineman and he has to make plays upfield. I don't care how fast he is he can't run around the guard to make a tackle 8 yards downfield. He is a nice player, but I think he is overrated even as a 4-3 MLB. Hopefully, he can make me eat my words, but it won't be by registering 120 tackles, it will be by stuffing the run and making tackles for a loss or <3 yards.

Agreed. If the defense keeps making tackles past the first-down marker you know what the reward is? A fresh set of downs for the offense & more opportunities for more tackles for the defense. It's a misleading stat as often as it is indicative of good play. MLB'er/ILB'ers on crappy run defenses always have a ton of tackles. It doesn't say how many yards he got dragged before pulling the guy down or until help arrived. Look at how many guys on Indy (both the LB'ers and the DB's) had a lot of tackles. Meanwhile they were giving up almost 200 rushing yards per game for most of the season.

Watch him with your eyes, not with the stat sheet after the game's over or by remembering his combine time.

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ECURB

ECURB

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I am such a Vilma fan/homer, I want to see him succeed, and if he doesn't succeed here, I guess I would have to accept that the best thing for him would be to succeed elsewhere, I just have trouble thinking of him not in green and white. I hope he can prove us wrong.

Im on the same page as you... I want him to do great as a JET...

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joebabyny

joebabyny

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......I wish we had a true NT and better d-line so we could put him in the best situation to see what he can do.

.

ya know, this may be a good point. I will admit I am not yet very knowledgeable about the defensive side of the game, but logically here is what i am thinking.

If you have a known talent like Vilma, who may be a tad small, and a dline and especially NT who are not of the talent that Vilma is who also are not flourishing on the 3-4, would it make more sense to work on getting a new NT and D-line better suited to the 3-4 and keep the most talented defensive player you have working along this new rookie, or do you go and trade Vilma and try to get someone who is more prototypical for the 3-4 qand still have the problems with a NT and line that is not as good as it should be for the scheme?

the way i see it, a talent like Vilma is hard to find, I say build around him and upgrade other positions that are easier to fill and cut the less talented players that are also holding the D back in the scheme, because at the end of the day do you think Robertson is the answer at NT for the 3-4?

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green_blood

green_blood

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But I can see why he might just want to leave, I wouldn't take it as being selfish, he is really talented, and if he cannot improve, he should go where he is best suited. Hopefully not an AFC team. I still think that if the Jets had a better right end and nt, he would do a lot better. Damn you Adam Carriker! Damn Senior Bowl! Adam Carriker would have been great in green and white.

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