TuscanyTile2 Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Note I haven't read this yet (well, barely) but it looks interesting. http://www.draftmaven.com/draft-science/coach-breakdown-1-eric-mangini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southparkcpa Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 I do believe that the Browns would have done no worse under Mangini had they let him stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Coach Breakdown 1: Eric ManginiPosted by Mike Harman on Tuesday, January 18, 2011 Under: Coach BreakdownEvery so often I plan to have a Draftology special called "Coach Breakdown." In these articles I plan to take a coach in the NFL and look at their NFL Draft history to help breakdown what they like. Some coaches don't have a draft strategy and they draft based on value and direct need. But some coaches do have plans that they will do anything for, and that is what I want to expose. The first lesson ironically is based on Eric Mangini who was recently fired, but I have a feeling that he will be a coach again since he actually is a good talent evaluator (for the most part). There is no easy way to start so I think I'll do it simply with: FACT: Eric Mangini prioritizes a LT and a Center (via trade) in his first draft and a corner in his second draft. In 2006 in his first draft with the Jets, Mangini drafted D'Brickashaw Ferguson with his first pick. Ferguson has gone on to be one of the best tackles in the game at times and was worthy of the pick. The Jets also traded at the end of the round to get one of the best center prospects ever in Nick Mangold. In 2009 in his first season with the Browns Mangini traded back to get as much value as he could and drafted one of the best center prospects ever in Alex Mack. They didn't draft a LT because the team had recently taken a stud in Joe Thomas, but could have gotten either Andre Smith or Eugene Monroe there if he hadn't had Thomas. As you can see in Mangini's first year with a team he likes to command a team by solidifying the offensive line. He does this first by getting a great left tackle and then by solidifying the center of the line. This is a smart move in planing because having a great offensive line will help to make bad QB play work out a little better. In 2007 Mangini decided to take Darrelle Revis, cornerback from Pittsburgh. Revis had an injury for the combine and saw his stock fall some until he ran a good 40-time on his pro day. He is now arguably the 2nd best corner in the league (Nnamdi Asomugha is better and it isn't even close). In 2010 Mangini took Joe Haden in the early 1st round. Haden was a great prospect and was a consensus best corner until he was hurt in the combine. Haden ran a good time at his pro day and saw his stock improve. Haden had six interceptions and a sack and has even gotten rookie of the year mentions. This also makes sense from Mangini's standpoint. He drafts an under-the radar quality corner to take pressure off of the linebackers which also improves the run defense. If you look at the five first round players that Mangini took in his first two years of each team you would find three pro bowlers, and arguably some of the best five players in the game. I have no doubt in my mind that Mangini could find another head coaching gig and I think this is a basic prediction of what he could select. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawk Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Coaches don't draft. I really stopped reading after the author said that some coaches don't have a draft strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 This article loses all credibility after the last sentence in this paragraph. In 2007 Mangini decided to take Darrelle Revis, cornerback from Pittsburgh. Revis had an injury for the combine and saw his stock fall some until he ran a good 40-time on his pro day. He is now arguably the 2nd best corner in the league (Nnamdi Asomugha is better and it isn't even close). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowlesMovement Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Franchise would have been significantly better off if Mangini was here from 09-14 than it was with Rex here for those years, and I don't even like Mangini and thought he deserved to be fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet9 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 This article loses all credibility after the last sentence in this paragraph. In 2007 Mangini decided to take Darrelle Revis, cornerback from Pittsburgh. Revis had an injury for the combine and saw his stock fall some until he ran a good 40-time on his pro day. He is now arguably the 2nd best corner in the league (Nnamdi Asomugha is better and it isn't even close). Talk about a flash in the pan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Stupid article by a stupid author. Because something seemed to happen 2 out of 2 times doesn't mean it would happen 10 out of 10 times. When the Jets took Ferguson he was the most obvious sure thing at a position that garnered high dollars in free agency (if one even shakes loose in free agency). When the Jets took Mangold it was stupid luck. Lucky he was still on the board, and lucky we didn't come away with nothing after the hole at center was created in the first place by dumping Mawae without a replacement. Hell, they dumped him even before they had that extra first round pick with which to draft Mangold. After that, it's possible that over-drafting Mack was influenced by the success of drafting Mangold, rather than a philosophy about centers in general. Ultimately it was a shortsightedness that failed to see that drafting a center in round 1 was worthwhile because Mangold was great, not because centers are typically worth first round picks. Mangold got a firsthand lesson in how useless a first round center is without a QB. Bentley blew out his knee 3 summers earlier and Cleveland finally accepted he'd never be what he was and his replacement, Fraley, went from meh to terrible. Drafting Mack there (#21 in the country) was a panic move because Mangini once again was coaching a team that badly needed a center as it entered the draft, not because of a philosophy of drafting first round centers. Then that brings us to the corners. It is hardly a unique thing for a team to draft a CB in round 1 when value and need meet. Every team does it unless they have someone already in place from free agency or from previously hitting paydirt in lower rounds. Besides, it was trader Mike that moved up for Revis, not Mangini who in the 2007 offseason was still babbling to anyone with a microphone about Jets core values, in preparation to coaching his team to a 4-12 record. This author also was certain that, in January of 2011 Revis was 2nd-best ("and it isn't even close") to Nnamdi Asomugha because nobody bothered throwing it his way while teams often lined up their #1 WR on Oakland's other DBs, unlike Revis who shadowed every team's #1 pretty much every down of every game. What insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotReign37 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 This article loses all credibility after the last sentence in this paragraph. In 2007 Mangini decided to take Darrelle Revis, cornerback from Pittsburgh. Revis had an injury for the combine and saw his stock fall some until he ran a good 40-time on his pro day. He is now arguably the 2nd best corner in the league (Nnamdi Asomugha is better and it isn't even close). I believe they are talking about at that time. I always had heard Asomugha was the best. Didn't Revis want Asomugha money after his rookie contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 I think evaluating Mangini on his drafts is stupid as well. One thing I will say however is that Mangini would be much better suited as a GM rather than HC not based on drafts as stated here but because I don't think his style resonates with the players . I like his philosophy on the type a players needed to build a team, Smart high character players just leave the coaching to someone else/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTL Jet Fan Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Great, let him be the next head coach of the Dolphins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Mangini drafted three of the top eight players on the 2015 Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Mangini drafted three of the top eight players on the 2015 Jets. And never won a playoff game Smashmouth is right he's a better GM then a HC.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 And never won a playoff game Smashmouth is right he's a better GM then a HC.. Dude got hosed because Woody couldn't sell tickets at sh*thole MetLife and wanted the carnival barker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Dude got hosed because Woody couldn't sell tickets at sh*thole MetLife and wanted the carnival barker. If that was true you would have a job today.. The truth is the team hated Mangini and the Browns did as well.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennyo7 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Coaches don't draft. I really stopped reading after the author said that some coaches don't have a draft strategy. when your GM is a glorified accountant, yes coaches do draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 If that was true you would have a job today.. The truth is the team hated Mangini and the Browns did as well.. So what? Popularity never won a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 So what? Popularity never won a thing. To be a HC you at least have to be thought of as fair by the players.. However you can be a scumbag and a GM so there is still hope for Mangenius..LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-Rex Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 This article loses all credibility after the last sentence in this paragraph. In 2007 Mangini decided to take Darrelle Revis, cornerback from Pittsburgh. Revis had an injury for the combine and saw his stock fall some until he ran a good 40-time on his pro day. He is now arguably the 2nd best corner in the league (Nnamdi Asomugha is better and it isn't even close). Asomugha isn't even in the league anymore to my knowledge. You lose credibility with that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Asomugha isn't even in the league anymore to my knowledge. You lose credibility with that statement. He retired after a failed stint in 2013 with the 49'ers but he's married to Kerry Washington the actress so he's not starving..LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Mangini was very immature when he was with the jets and tried to do his "Lil Bill" imitation. Wouldn't be surprised to see him get one more shot. Actually some of the posters above are correct IMO. he should probably be in the FO, and looking for a GM job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Asomugha isn't even in the league anymore to my knowledge. You lose credibility with that statement. Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit I see. Unless your agreeing with my statement, then reading comprehension isn't my strong suit lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Mangini was terrible coach who won four games his second year. The only reason he did any better than that in his last year was Brett Favre. People who complained about the ground & pound, defense first mentality of Rex forget just how impossible the Jets were to watch those first two Mangini years. He coached scared every down. Almost every NFL head coach is afraid of being second guessed, but he took it to new levels. He doesn't belong on the sidelines. I don't buy into the myth that he'd be a great GM, either. That same conservativeness and fear led him to want to only draft Boy Scouts and choir boys. They were supposed to love football, too, but he was totally psyched out of that with Vernon Gholston when his estranged football daddy traded into the spot right behind him. I wouldn't give that man the final decision on the lunch order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Mangini was terrible coach who won four games his second year. The only reason he did any better than that in his last year was Brett Favre. You seem to have omitted an entire year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 You seem to have omitted an entire year. You mean when he won nine games with Herm's team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 You mean when he won nine games with Herm's team? I just find it odd that a Rex Ryan fan would look at a coach's record and choose to omit the one aberrational season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Stupid article by a stupid author. Because something seemed to happen 2 out of 2 times doesn't mean it would happen 10 out of 10 times. When the Jets took Ferguson he was the most obvious sure thing at a position that garnered high dollars in free agency (if one even shakes loose in free agency). When the Jets took Mangold it was stupid luck. Lucky he was still on the board, and lucky we didn't come away with nothing after the hole at center was created in the first place by dumping Mawae without a replacement. Hell, they dumped him even before they had that extra first round pick with which to draft Mangold. I dunno. In hindsight it looks like Ngata was way undervalued, which is bizarre given everything checked out about him in spades. I love Ferguson and think he's one of the Jets' best picks ever, but we probably couldn't have gone wrong either way. And if memory serves I think the only reason we took Mangold is because Deangelo was off the board; and I may be reaching here because it was 10 years ago (holy ****, it was 10 years ago), but I think we even tried trading up a couple picks for DW too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 I just find it odd that a Rex Ryan fan would look at a coach's record and choose to omit the one aberrational season. Mangini's aberrational season was the one where Brett Favre told Brian Schottenheimer to **** off and ran the offense he wanted to run. The first two represented Mangini's projected win curve. Without Favre, Mangini wins negative one games in his last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Mangini's aberrational season was the one where Brett Favre told Brian Schottenheimer to **** off and ran the offense he wanted to run. The first two represented Mangini's projected win curve. Without Favre, Mangini wins negative one games in his last year. I do math for a living and I just checked and this man's work is sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 I dunno. In hindsight it looks like Ngata was way undervalued, which is bizarre given everything checked out about him in spades. I love Ferguson and think he's one of the Jets' best picks ever, but we probably couldn't have gone wrong either way. And if memory serves I think the only reason we took Mangold is because Deangelo was off the board; and I may be reaching here because it was 10 years ago (holy ****, it was 10 years ago), but I think we even tried trading up a couple picks for DW too. Coincidentally, Ngata was the guy I wanted to pick at #4. A beast who was the size of a NT but who could also penetrate not just be a gap-occupier. I was just tired of watching our puny DL guys get pushed backwards in the ground game, and the prior year we drafted a 225-lb MLB with like the 12th overall pick. Ugh. But hey, the guy got tackles. Who cares if they were always after the LOS after he got dragged for an extra 2-4 yards every play. But I digress. I was told (back then) that Ngata was a reach there, even though he was mostly getting mocked to go no lower than to Buffalo at #8. But yes, he was who I wanted. And it would have been well-served on that team since Mangini force-fed his strict 3-4 front without a NT for the next couple seasons until he was lucky enough to have Kris Jenkins become available (for 10 healthy games, then Mangini's D went back to being terrible again). Also we were a run-first, run-second team anyway, and it's the one thing Ferguson was never more than average at, even when he was one of the game's better LTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Mangini's aberrational season was the one where Brett Favre told Brian Schottenheimer to **** off and ran the offense he wanted to run. The first two represented Mangini's projected win curve. Without Favre, Mangini wins negative one games in his last year. I suck at math so I'm gonna let Sperm Edwards break this polliwog pseudoscience down for me, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 why do I feel like slats and the gayne are really just continuing the argument over rex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 I suck at math so I'm gonna let Sperm Edwards break this polliwog pseudoscience down for me, thanks. I'll get right on this if there's too much praise for Mangini. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Mangini drafted three of the top eight players on the 2015 Jets. I don't think Mangini is a particularly good head coach, but this is an indisputable fact that a lot of people conveniently ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Mangini drafted three of the top eight players on the 2015 Jets. You could make an argument for Harris, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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