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9 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

There's a difference between learning what a defense is doing and realizing the speed at which it's being done . What you got away with in high school, you can get away with at the college level sometimes, but will get NFL HCs and offensive coordinators fired against starting NFL defenses .

 

Wasn't he running the scout team last year?  That is "NFL speed."  What gets NFL HCs and offensive coordinators fired is okay for a QB?  Those guys on the 2nd and 3rd team are generally just as fast as the first team.  That is what gets them in camp, the scheme will just be more vanilla because of inexperience and a lack of time to gel as a unit.  After last week, I read that the problem was that the Lions "gameplanned" for him.  This week, they didn't even announce him as starter and he looked worse.

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6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Made this same point yesterday in the Bates thread, but it's been pretty obvious since his vaunted Penn State days. Hackenberg struggles with basic accuracy, footwork, processing speed, and, now, 101-level quarterback fundamentals. 

This. "Protections" is just a symptom. Hackenberg couldn't win the #1 job because he's ungodly terrible at literally every aspect of quarterbacking except being tall.

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Just now, dbatesman said:

This. "Protections" is just a symptom. Hackenberg couldn't win the #1 job because he's ungodly terrible at literally every aspect of quarterbacking except being tall.

Andcaucasian COUGH

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Seriously...how can people continue to debate this. The kid couldn't complete 60% of his passes in HIGH SCHOOL! This kid is never going to get it because he can't do the number one thing that QB's must be able to do, throw the football from Point A to Point B accurately. 

All those dismissing what Petty did against 2nd and 3rd stringers, it wasn't his fault the coaching staff wouldn't let him take one series against the ones. All we can judge him on is his playing time this PS and he performed very well. To those who say, "well Hack got a TD at the end too", what game were you watching? Petty still looked vastly superior. How about the throw to a wide open A. Stewart that needed to be reviewed for 5 minutes because Hack almost threw the ball 5 feet over his head on the sideline? How about the fumble that would have been a turnover if the Ref's didn't screw up on the very next play? 

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6 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

This. "Protections" is just a symptom. Hackenberg couldn't win the #1 job because he's ungodly terrible at literally every aspect of quarterbacking except being tall.

It is funny how many people on here want to hang on to his "potential"  He is the QB equivalent of Gholston - he looks good coming off the bus.  Workout warrior. 

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3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Wasn't he running the scout team last year?  That is "NFL speed."  What gets NFL HCs and offensive coordinators fired is okay for a QB?  Those guys on the 2nd and 3rd team are generally just as fast as the first team.  That is what gets them in camp, the scheme will just be more vanilla because of inexperience and a lack of time to gel as a unit.  After last week, I read that the problem was that the Lions "gameplanned" for him.  This week, they didn't even announce him as starter and he looked worse.

Why throw what someone else said at me.  I never said anything about the Lions game plan.  I'm going to write something, but please don't think that I'm comparing these 2 men to each other . It took the great Peyton manning who was breed to be an NFL QB an entire preseason, an NFL regular season and  another training camp to get acclimated to the speed  of the  NFL and even then, he couldn't figure out what Bill Belicheck was throwing at him .

Sorry, but I have neither the time or the inclination to explain the difference between NFL game speed and athletic foot speed .  

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1 minute ago, Tinstar said:

Why throw what someone else said at me.  I never said anything about the Lions game plan.  I'm going to write something, but please don't think that I'm comparing these 2 men to each other . It took the great Peyton manning who was breed to be an NFL QB an entire preseason, an NFL regular season and  another training camp to get acclimated to the speed  of the  NFL and even then, he couldn't figure out what Bill Belicheck was throwing at him .

Sorry, but I have neither the time or the inclination to explain the difference between NFL game speed and athletic foot speed .  

He was scout team QB last year.  That means he ran the simulation of the opponent's offense against the Jets #1s.  Is that "game speed" or not?  

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1 hour ago, gEYno said:

Nor was Bryce Petty or Josh McCown.

Petty didn't play against 1s and McCown has played in the WCO before.   McCown probably has played in every offense in the NFL.

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58 minutes ago, jpoppy717 said:

Petty has similar issues; recall the play last year against Miami where he was sandwiched by Wake and Suh 

 Though that may have been a snap count issue as well.

Wonder if keeping Mangold would have significantly helped Hack & Petty in this regard.

Not at all similar.  That was ALL on Johnson, who acknowledged it was on him.  Nobody on the OL even moved, and Petty still delivered a very nice long ball 

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9 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

He was scout team QB last year.  That means he ran the simulation of the opponent's offense against the Jets #1s.  Is that "game speed" or not?  

You know friend, I think you're a really smart person . 

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I have been a very loud Hackenberg supporter, but this preseason has finally convinced me that he is just flat out terrible.  He has looked clueless out there.  In fact, I can't remember another QB drafted that high that has looked this bad going into his second year.  He has shown NOTHING to indicate to anyone that he will ever be a capable NFL QB.  I can forgive the GM for whiffing on a QB, it happens, but I can't forgive him for not addressing the issue in this years draft.  He had to have known that there were several QB's to be had that were closer to being NFL ready than Hackenberg, but yet he took two safeties instead.  THIS is unforgivable in my book and should lead to his firing sooner rather than later.

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1 hour ago, jpoppy717 said:

Petty has similar issues; recall the play last year against Miami where he was sandwiched by Wake and Suh 

 Though that may have been a snap count issue as well.

Wonder if keeping Mangold would have significantly helped Hack & Petty in this regard.

"MAY" HAVE BEEN A SNAP COUNT ISSUE????????????????   omg

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26 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

"MAY" HAVE BEEN A SNAP COUNT ISSUE????????????????   omg

That was such a good throw tho. If Hack had done that when the blitz came I don't think we'd be as pissed as we are.

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Bigger problem is the developmental league they keep talking about is so very needed for QBs like Hack and others. They do not simulate game conditions at all in practice even against the starting D's. You need to have guys blitzing at you from every position on D and when they get through they have to hit you. This will get the QBs to learn the Oline protection aspect of the game quicker. If it risks injury so be it. Better these QBs especially the young ones get injured than go out in even preseason games looking totally out of their element due to never being in real game situations. 

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3 hours ago, ChuckkieB said:

I have been a very loud Hackenberg supporter, but this preseason has finally convinced me that he is just flat out terrible.  He has looked clueless out there.  In fact, I can't remember another QB drafted that high that has looked this bad going into his second year.  He has shown NOTHING to indicate to anyone that he will ever be a capable NFL QB.  I can forgive the GM for whiffing on a QB, it happens, but I can't forgive him for not addressing the issue in this years draft.  He had to have known that there were several QB's to be had that were closer to being NFL ready than Hackenberg, but yet he took two safeties instead.  THIS is unforgivable in my book and should lead to his firing sooner rather than later.

Wait, you were a loud supporter and then this PS convinced you otherwise. What did you see prior than that made you a loud supporter. For Hack its always been about the measurables , the size, the arm , the potential. This PS proved he could survive and play decent against backups but  he was not quite ready to play against starting NFL defenses, this changes nothing about his potential and what most people liked about him entering the NFL. 

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25 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said:

C'mon RoadFan Hack does hand the ball off well, except on the play where Forte got tackled for the safety.

Yeah he was supposed to hand off and then block for Forte since Shell certainly didn't think it was his job. 

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22 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said:

Bigger problem is the developmental league they keep talking about is so very needed for QBs like Hack and others. They do not simulate game conditions at all in practice even against the starting D's. You need to have guys blitzing at you from every position on D and when they get through they have to hit you. This will get the QBs to learn the Oline protection aspect of the game quicker. If it risks injury so be it. Better these QBs especially the young ones get injured than go out in even preseason games looking totally out of their element due to never being in real game situations. 

You may think it is better to be injured than to look out of your element, but I doubt the players or the NFLPA would prefer it. 

3 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Wait, you were a loud supporter and then this PS convinced you otherwise. What did you see prior than that made you a loud supporter. For Hack its always been about the measurables , the size, the arm , the potential. This PS proved he could survive and play decent against backups but  he was not quite ready to play against starting NFL defenses, this changes nothing about his potential and what most people liked about him entering the NFL. 

When did he look decent?  The last drive against the Giants?  He hasn't been facing starters all the time and he has looked far from decent.  

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1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

You may think it is better to be injured than to look out of your element, but I doubt the players or the NFLPA would prefer it. 

When did he look decent?  The last drive against the Giants?  He hasn't been facing starters all the time and he has looked far from decent.  

He played very well the first PS game against Tenn, he also looked good in the 2 minute drill against the Giants.

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All this is a load of crap . The only problem Christian Hackenberg has is getting accustomed to the speed of the NFL and truth be told, he's learning .   There's a major difference between the speed of a starting caliber top 10 NFL defense and a bottom 10 starting defense .  That difference is multiplied when you face a 2nd and 3rd string defense in preseason made up of players who won't even make rosters . 
The last 2 drives of the 1st half of the Giants game (yea, including the one that went for the pick 6) and the last Jet drive that Hackenberg led demonstrates this fact . Hack needs reps, and the more he gets with starting caliber NFL defenses the better he will get . The problem is, there's a learning curve that will result in a ton of turnovers and losing .  You can afford this in preseason, but not in the regular season and IMO, that's why Hackenberg was given those 1st team reps .
The kid is improving, whether you folks choose to believe it or not . Don't believe me, compare this Eagles game to last year's on Friday morning and get back to me .
He needs to play and "hope" he plays well Thursday against the scrubs. I know hes left for dead but if Hack takes this useless game to task it could help him.

Thing is will Jets abandon him during the season or not?

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

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I was saying this earlier, but it's certainly not at all a defense of Hack, but rather a (very slight) one for the OL.  Don't get me wrong, the OL isn't particularly good, but they're also not as bad as some try to paint them as, when using them as the excuse for why Hack sucks.  If anything, it's more the opposite.  They've definitely had enough of their own issues, but there's also been multiple instances of Hack getting himself killed because of his own screw-ups.

While no one thought last year's OL was good, they weren't considered as nearly this bad at the time, despite the only difference this year being Beachum, who is hardly filling any particularly big shoes for Clady.

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20 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Wait, you were a loud supporter and then this PS convinced you otherwise. What did you see prior than that made you a loud supporter. For Hack its always been about the measurables , the size, the arm , the potential. This PS proved he could survive and play decent against backups but  he was not quite ready to play against starting NFL defenses, this changes nothing about his potential and what most people liked about him entering the NFL. 

I was in support of giving Hackenberg a chance to prove himself because of his pedigree, but he's shown nothing now with one full season and two preseasons of preparation and learning under his belt to indicate to me that he will be capable of being a starting NFL QB.  Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather see him out there week one over McCown because I feel the best way to become a capable starting NFL QB is to play in regular season games, not holding a clipboard on the sideline. 

The modern day college QB comes into the league ready to play, or he doesn't.  Very few if any QB's over the last 10-15 years finally "figure it out" after riding the bench for multiple years.  At a quick glance, just about every starting NFL QB in 2017 (not including injury replacements) was starting multiple games in year 1 of their career and if not in year 1, year 2, Rodgers being the only exception that comes to mind. 

There's still some hope for Hackenberg to get significant playing time in 2017, but based on what Ive seen, I wouldn't hold my breath.  If /when McCown sh*ts the bed, Petty deserves to start.  It will be interesting to see how it plays out, and if it does in fact turn out that Petty is the second in line, suffice it to say, the the Jets have effectively given up on Hackenberg. 

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Offensive Line is clearly still an issue and a work in progress.  Macagnan is still trying to rebuild it after years of neglect

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5 hours ago, gEYno said:

I thought Hack was super smart?  Also, what was he doing his "redshirt" year?

What he was doing was being entirely ignored by the coaches and left to rot on the far practice fields.  We carried 4 QBs and Gailey had zero interest in working with him and the QB coach Patullo had zero history as a QB coach when we hired him.  But nobody wants to put the blame on anyone but the GM for selecting him.  If you don't coach and develop your players after you draft them, then nobody will ever be ready for the game.  Once again the real issue is the total dysfunction and lack of organization and planning at the top.  Owner hires 2 guys with separate agendas and has them work independently towards their own goals while he pretends to know how to run a franchise (or any business at all). 

We want to destroy Macc for selecting Mauldin now too.  Well same question...what have we done to help him develop?  He came on strong his 1st year.  What happened after that?  Did we work to develop him or do we just assume players will mature on their own without any developmental plans just by being on the field next to the brilliant mind of Todd Bowels? 

With this current CBA practice time is extremely limited and I get that coaches want to spend almost every minute of them installing their game plans and selling their system to the players,.  You can't boil down the job to just the small amount of time they have available and do it well.  New CBA needs to fix that immediately.  Sell the players back their "right" to an independent arbitration for conduct detrimental to the league/brand for a ton more practice time.  If the coddled brats don't want to put the work in, they can quit and go work at McDonalds or Mavis Tires. 

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41 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

He played very well the first PS game against Tenn, he also looked good in the 2 minute drill against the Giants.

Very well?  Guess I didn't see it the same as you.  He looked lost and incompetent to me against the Titans.  At best he was Captain Checkdown.  At the time, it didn't seem so horrible because his completion percentage was up and that was his major issue. OTOH, his ypa was dismal, he took sacks, seemed blind to pressure and generally did not seem able to run a functional offense.

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4 minutes ago, Lil Woody said:

What he was doing was being entirely ignored by the coaches and left to rot on the far practice fields.  We carried 4 QBs and Gailey had zero interest in working with him and the QB coach Patullo had zero history as a QB coach when we hired him.  But nobody wants to put the blame on anyone but the GM for selecting him.  If you don't coach and develop your players after you draft them, then nobody will ever be ready for the game.  Once again the real issue is the total dysfunction and lack of organization and planning at the top.  Owner hires 2 guys with separate agendas and has them work independently towards their own goals while he pretends to know how to run a franchise (or any business at all). 

We want to destroy Macc for selecting Mauldin now too.  Well same question...what have we done to help him develop?  He came on strong his 1st year.  What happened after that?  Did we work to develop him or do we just assume players will mature on their own without any developmental plans just by being on the field next to the brilliant mind of Todd Bowels? 

With this current CBA practice time is extremely limited and I get that coaches want to spend almost every minute of them installing their game plans and selling their system to the players,.  You can't boil down the job to just the small amount of time they have available and do it well.  New CBA needs to fix that immediately.  Sell the players back their "right" to an independent arbitration for conduct detrimental to the league/brand for a ton more practice time.  If the coddled brats don't want to put the work in, they can quit and go work at McDonalds or Mavis Tires. 

There's a lot of speculating as to what went on in an area that none of us are privy to in this post...

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10 minutes ago, Lil Woody said:

What he was doing was being entirely ignored by the coaches and left to rot on the far practice fields.  We carried 4 QBs and Gailey had zero interest in working with him and the QB coach Patullo had zero history as a QB coach when we hired him.  But nobody wants to put the blame on anyone but the GM for selecting him.  If you don't coach and develop your players after you draft them, then nobody will ever be ready for the game.  Once again the real issue is the total dysfunction and lack of organization and planning at the top.  Owner hires 2 guys with separate agendas and has them work independently towards their own goals while he pretends to know how to run a franchise (or any business at all). 

We want to destroy Macc for selecting Mauldin now too.  Well same question...what have we done to help him develop?  He came on strong his 1st year.  What happened after that?  Did we work to develop him or do we just assume players will mature on their own without any developmental plans just by being on the field next to the brilliant mind of Todd Bowels? 

With this current CBA practice time is extremely limited and I get that coaches want to spend almost every minute of them installing their game plans and selling their system to the players,.  You can't boil down the job to just the small amount of time they have available and do it well.  New CBA needs to fix that immediately.  Sell the players back their "right" to an independent arbitration for conduct detrimental to the league/brand for a ton more practice time.  If the coddled brats don't want to put the work in, they can quit and go work at McDonalds or Mavis Tires. 

I still say this is bullsh*t.  There were plenty of articles about Hackenberg in the film room, learning from the others, running the scout team.  The "lack of time" with him related to his footwork.  Gailey said that you needed thousands of reps to change it and that it should be done during the offseason.  That is a simple fact.  Somehow, around here, that translates into him being Cool Hand Luke in solitary.  

Hackenberg has not been particularly successful at any time.  Going through all his years of college, including under O'Brien.  I thought it was Franklin's fault he sucked?  Now it is Gailey and Patullo.  Morton and Bates?  They don't seem in love either, do they?  This is the same bullsh*t as Schottenhiemer ruining Sanchez - the ******* guy played under how many coaches since?  He is what he is. 

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5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Very well?  Guess I didn't see it the same as you.  He looked lost and incompetent to me against the Titans.  At best he was Captain Checkdown.  At the time, it didn't seem so horrible because his completion percentage was up and that was his major issue. OTOH, his ypa was dismal, he took sacks, seemed blind to pressure and generally did not seem able to run a functional offense.

Wait so you're going to condemn him for completing at 60+ % because his YPA was low.  Did you notice the rush, the lack of run game , receivers not getting open downfield.  He took what was given to him. If he throws incompletions downfield he gets criticized for inaccuracy , if holds the ball to long he gets chided for sacks , if he dumps it off and gains positive yards his YPA is too low. 

Gotta hand it to Jet fans when they have an agenda , it's all encompassing. 

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It's completely believable that Hackenberg failed to recognize and set up proper protections. The brutal blindside hits he wasn't ready for in games 2 and 3 are strong indications of that.

I seriously doubt that was the only reason though. Frankly, Hackenberg doesn't appear to be good at anything an NFL QB is required to do.

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