In Defense of the Tebow Trade

[JetNation]

I was as shocked as anyone to hear that the Jets were in the running for Tim Tebow. Although it was being reported, no part of me believed that they would actually pull the trigger.

Now that it’s done, I’m equally surprised by the scrutiny that this trade has caused. The detractors include the entire weekday line up of WFAN (Boomer Esiason, Craig Carton, Joe Beningo, Evan Roberts and Mike Francesa), much of 1050 ESPN (Michael Kay, Don LaGreca, Stephen A. Smith and others), Jets beat writer Rich Cimini, former Jets nose tackle Kris Jenkins and hall of fame Quarterback Joe Namath.

By contrast, those who support the trade are limited in number, and mostly exist outside of the media – former Jets tackle Damien Woody and fellow New York sensation Jeremy Lin. All-world cornerback Darelle Revis sent out a positive tweet about it as well, though as a mouthpiece for the team, that’s expected.

Needless to say, the supporters are heavily outweighed by the detractors. Consequently, few have put forth a coherent argument in defense of the trade. Though I recognize the inherent problems with this situation, I’ll take it on myself to play angel’s advocate. Here are 4 reasons why the Tebow trade may end up being a net positive for the Jets:

1. The Right Fit: If anyone can get the best out of Tim Tebow, it’s Tony Sparano. Fortunately, Tony Sparano just so happens to be the Jets offensive coordinator. Sparano was the head coach of the 2008 Miami Dolphins when they began the wildcat trend in the NFL with Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams.

2. The Wildcat Upside: Tim Tebow is already a more complete passer than Ronnie Brown, and he plenty of room to improve. True, the Jets have to find the right compliment to Tebow (Joe McKnight? Jeremy Kerley? A draft pick?). True, Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams were immensely talented. Still, due to Tebow’s passing ability, the Jets Wildcat has a higher upside than the Miami Dolphins one had.

3. The Right Price: The negative analysis of this trade has been skewed by several factors: Tannenbaum’s unwillingness to hold onto draft picks, Tebow’s religiosity, Tebow’s cult of personality, and Tebow’s insistence that he can be a traditional NFL quarterback. The problem? None of those factors are relevant. We must analyze this trade on its merits alone.

Here are the facts: the Jets sent a 4th and a 6th round pick to Denver for this player and a 7th round pick. So the only question we must answer is this: is this player and a 7th worth a 4th and a 6th.

The answer is: yes, absolutely. We speak of a player who is: young and has upside. He was a 1st round draft pick. He’s a profoundly gifted athlete. He can play multiple positions. He has no character issues: he’s not going to get in any trouble on or off the field. He’s inspirational. He’s charismatic. He’s a leader. He makes those around him better.

The major criticism he has endured was that he could not play the position he was originally drafted to play in the NFL. Yet we watched him play that position in the NFL last year, and take a team from 1-4 under the reigns of Kyle Orton to a playoff berth and a first round victory against the powerful defense of the Pittsburgh Steelers.

If you ignore all of the irrelevant data, would there be any doubt that this player and a 7th round pick are worth the price of a 4th and a 6th? I submit: not a chance.

4. Pushing Sanchez: The acquisition of Tim Tebow will push Sanchez in the right direction. This trade is a message to Sanchez: he must step up and take control of the team.

Jets fans rightfully complained that a 40 year old Mark Brunell wasn’t enough to keep Sanchez on his toes. You know what? They were right. For the first time in his NFL career, Sanchez cannot relax – he must improve, or he isn’t long for this town. If Sanchez does what he’s supposed to do, what he was drafted to do, he should have no reason to worry.

JetNation has heard concerns from many fans that Tebow’s cult of personality from the Florida Gators will end up getting Sanchez unfairly benched. They wrongly compare the Jets situation to the Broncos, but those situations are completely unalike.

Consider: the Broncos were floundering at 1-4 when Orton was benched for Tebow. Does anyone here really expect the Jets to open up 1-4? There’s no reason to suspect that and even if there were, Sanchez’ time in New York would be dwindling down, anyway.

Yet the overall point here is that you have to give the Jets front office more credit than that. Nevermind the chants of thousands of Tebow fanatics, Mike Tannenbaum and Rex Ryan will make this decision based on the ramifications for the record of the team.

“But,” you say, “there will be marketing aspects involved. The organization is going to make decisions based on the bottom line – and Tebow is better for the bottom line.”

I reply: what’s best for the bottom line is good football. Business wise, an 11-5 team that makes the playoffs is far superior to an 8-8 team that does not. If Sanchez is winning games, he will play. If he’s not, he won’t be playing for long. Period. And is that not what we want? You play to win the game.

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[stoicsentry]

Let the flame-war begin.

http://www.jetnation...he-tebow-trade/

I was as shocked as anyone to hear that the Jets were in the running for Tim Tebow. Although it was being reported, no part of me believed that they would actually pull the trigger.

Now that it’s done, I’m equally surprised by the scrutiny that this trade has caused. The detractors include the entire weekday line up of WFAN (Boomer Esiason, Craig Carton, Joe Beningo, Evan Roberts and Mike Francesa), much of 1050 ESPN (Michael Kay, Don LaGreca, Stephen A. Smith and others), Jets beat writer Rich Cimini, former Jets nose tackle Kris Jenkins and hall of fame Quarterback Joe Namath.

By contrast, those who support the trade are limited in number, and mostly exist outside of the media – former Jets tackle Damien Woody and fellow New York sensation Jeremy Lin. All-world cornerback Darelle Revis sent out a positive tweet about it as well, though as a mouthpiece for the team, that’s expected.

Needless to say, the supporters are heavily outweighed by the detractors. Consequently, few have put forth a coherent argument in defense of the trade. Though I recognize the inherent problems with this situation, I’ll take it on myself to play angel’s advocate. Here are 4 reasons why the Tebow trade may end up being a net positive for the Jets:

1. The Right Fit: If anyone can get the best out of Tim Tebow, it’s Tony Sparano. Fortunately, Tony Sparano just so happens to be the Jets offensive coordinator. Sparano was the head coach of the 2008 Miami Dolphins when they began the wildcat trend in the NFL with Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams.

2. The Wildcat Upside: Tim Tebow is already a more complete passer than Ronnie Brown, and he plenty of room to improve. True, the Jets have to find the right compliment to Tebow (Joe McKnight? Jeremy

Kerley? A draft pick?). True, Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams were immensely talented. Still, due to Tebow’s passing ability, the Jets Wildcat has a higher upside than the Miami Dolphins one had.

3. The Right Price: The negative analysis of this trade has been skewed by several factors: Tannenbaum’s unwillingness to hold onto draft picks, Tebow’s religiosity, Tebow’s cult of personality, and Tebow’s insistence that he can be a traditional NFL quarterback. The problem? None of those factors are relevant. We must analyze this trade on its merits alone.

Here are the facts: the Jets sent a 4th and a 6th round pick to Denver for this player and a 7th round pick. So the only question we must answer is this: is this player and a 7th worth a 4th and a 6th.

The answer is: yes, absolutely. We speak of a player who is: young and has upside. He was a 1st round draft pick. He’s a profoundly gifted athlete. He can play multiple positions. He has no character issues: he’s not going to get in any trouble on or off the field. He’s inspirational. He’s charismatic. He’s a leader. He makes those around him better.

The major criticism he has endured was that he could not play the position he was originally drafted to play in the NFL. Yet we watched him play that position in the NFL last year, and take a team from 1-4 under the reigns of Kyle Orton to a playoff berth and a first round victory against the powerful defense of the Pittsburgh Steelers.

If you ignore all of the irrelevant data, would there be any doubt that this player and a 7th round pick are worth the price of a 4th and a 6th? I submit: not a chance.

4. Pushing Sanchez: The acquisition of Tim Tebow will push Sanchez in the right direction. This trade is a message to Sanchez: he must step up and take control of the team.

Jets fans rightfully complained that a 40 year old Mark Brunell wasn’t enough to keep Sanchez on his toes. You know what? They were right. For the first time in his NFL career, Sanchez cannot relax – he must improve, or he isn’t long for this town. If Sanchez does what he’s supposed to do, what he was drafted to do, he should have no reason to worry.

JetNation has heard concerns from many fans that Tebow’s cult of personality from the Florida Gators will end up getting Sanchez unfairly benched. They wrongly compare the Jets situation to the Broncos, but those situations are completely unalike.

Consider: the Broncos were floundering at 1-4 when Orton was benched for Tebow. Does anyone here really expect the Jets to open up 1-4? There’s no reason to suspect that and even if there were, Sanchez’ time in New York would be dwindling down, anyway.

Yet the overall point here is that you have to give the Jets front office more credit than that. Nevermind the chants of thousands of Tebow fanatics, Mike Tannenbaum and Rex Ryan will make this decision based on the ramifications for the record of the team.

“But,” you say, “there will be marketing aspects involved. The organization is going to make decisions based on the bottom line – and Tebow is better for the bottom line.”

I reply: what’s best for the bottom line is good football. Business wise, an 11-5 team that makes the playoffs is far superior to an 8-8 team that does not. If Sanchez is winning games, he will play. If he’s not, he won’t be playing for long. Period. And is that not what we want? You play to win the game.

[Larz]

I believe in time most people will be won over by tebow. there is a huge risk tho, it's a built in QB controversy, and all the douchebag beat writers will be stirring sh*t up on a weekly basis, going from locker to locker looking for quotes about which QB that player supports

all it took for a lot of people around here to cheer for jason effing taylor was a safety

tebow will score game winning TD's probably by week 3

[RevisIsland610]

I also like the signing and I am not a fan of Tanny by any means. I see it as a low risk move that can have significant benefits on the field. We just gave up a 4th round essentially for a talented football player. He can't throw very well but the kid wins. Period. I think he could be very effective in the wildcat or some other variation that maximizes his talent. I've never seen a player get so much grief even after taking over a 1-4 team that was going nowhere to a divsion title and a playoff win against the steelers. Which move has more risk? Signing the 36 year old Peyton Manning coming off serious neck surgery who hasn't played in a year to a 5 year 96 million contract or getting Tebow for a mid-round draft pick and paying him only about 1 mil per year?

[harts724]

All the Tebow freaks will make the games unbearable to watch. Dont understand the attraction to this guy ,he sucks as a QB,his whole game is basted on gimmic plays,which the Pats caught onto in the playoffs>

[denden29]

I reply: what’s best for the bottom line is good football. Business wise, an 11-5 team that makes the playoffs is far superior to an 8-8 team that does not. If Sanchez is winning games, he will play. If he’s not, he won’t be playing for long. Period. And is that not what we want? You play to win the game.

Why is the team going to be 11-5 with Tebow minus two draft picks? Do I think Tebow and a 7th is worth a 4 & 6? No! The Jets have holes all over because they constantly trade away their draft picks, 23 in the last five years lowest in NFL, average is 40 in the same time frame.

The team needs a safety, corner, no Strickland or Cole, ILB, OLB, Tackle, WR, TE and RB. They need all these positions because they have not built through the draft like the Giants have, and don't say they have Eli Manning look at his numbers in 2007 – completion percentage 56% – QBR 73.9 much like Sanchez when they won the super bowl besides they drafted him.

This is not about Tebow simple the Jets have limited resources financially, older players who need replacing/upgrading and this team lack depth something awful. Since you can't get to many FA you have to draft, not trade them away for a position you just signed Stanton at and now you are going to lose $500,000 because he wants to leave.

Tebow is going to cost $2.6 million on the cap, his $1.5 million salary and the $1.5 million they are paying back to Denver. Yes they are paying $1.5 back in 2012.

I think the 4^th & 6^th, which would cost next to nothing on the cap, and the additional resources to use on other players would benefit the team much more this year and moving forward then a guy who is coming in for 5-8 plays a game.

The NFL is littered with quality 4^th and 6^th round picks, Leon Washington was a 4^th rounder and Matt Slauson a 6^th. You can’t just dismiss the picks like they are nothing cause they are later, it’s a numbers game the more picks you have the more players you’ll keep and develop.

The Jets have mortgaged the future way too often, this is just another example of selling PSL not making a wise football decision. The bottom line is this was the wrong move.

[SayNoToDMC]

2. The Wildcat Upside: Tim Tebow is already a more complete passer than Ronnie Brown,

That's a stretch

[Sperm Edwards]

I reply: what’s best for the bottom line is good football. Business wise, an 11-5 team that makes the playoffs is far superior to an 8-8 team that does not. If Sanchez is winning games, he will play. If he’s not, he won’t be playing for long. Period. And is that not what we want? You play to win the game.

Why is the team going to be 11-5 with Tebow minus two draft picks? Do I think Tebow and a 7th is worth a 4 & 6? No! The Jets have holes all over because they constantly trade away their draft picks, 23 in the last five years lowest in NFL, average is 40 in the same time frame.

The team needs a safety, corner, no Strickland or Cole, ILB, OLB, Tackle, WR, TE and RB. They need all these positions because they have not built through the draft like the Giants have, and don't say they have Eli Manning look at his numbers in 2007 – completion percentage 56% – QBR 73.9 much like Sanchez when they won the super bowl besides they drafted him.

This is not about Tebow simple the Jets have limited resources financially, older players who need replacing/upgrading and this team lack depth something awful. Since you can't get to many FA you have to draft, not trade them away for a position you just signed Stanton at and now you are going to lose $500,000 because he wants to leave.

Tebow is going to cost $2.6 million on the cap, his $1.5 million salary and the $1.5 million they are paying back to Denver. Yes they are paying $1.5 back in 2012.

I think the 4^th & 6^th, which would cost next to nothing on the cap, and the additional resources to use on other players would benefit the team much more this year and moving forward then a guy who is coming in for 5-8 plays a game.

The NFL is littered with quality 4^th and 6^th round picks, Leon Washington was a 4^th rounder and Matt Slauson a 6^th. You can’t just dismiss the picks like they are nothing cause they are later, it’s a numbers game the more picks you have the more players you’ll keep and develop.

The Jets have mortgaged the future way too often, this is just another example of selling PSL not making a wise football decision. The bottom line is this was the wrong move.

I'm hardly a cheerleader for all (or any) things Tim Tebow, but the odds are strong that we will end up with a far less useful player than Tebow - particularly with production right away - by keeping our 4th round pick.

Stop it with the alleged super value of downgrading our 6th round pick to a 7th. If that is the make or break of our 2012 draft they can very easily reacquire that same level pick by dropping a whopping two slots in round 2 (or 4 slots in round 3) next month. Or drop back 1 slot in round 2 and throw back the 7th round pick we just got from Denver. Adding another mid-6th round pick is stupidly easy.

[jason423]

I just cant see defending the trade. Not because of draft value (those picks mean almost nothing) but because it just makes no football sense. The NFL is all about passing for 4500+ yards. Its not about running the wildcat or some wild variation of the college spread offense. Since the Wildcat began all of 2 teams have made the playoffs. The Chad led Dolphins which took a Jets collapse and one of the easiest schedules in the history of the NFL and last years Broncos who won a division that the other 3 teams all did their best to give away. Thats it. The Dolphins were a laughingstock around the Jets fans on the boards when they were tryiing to beat Rex with their Wildcat. Even when it worked it was a joke. Now its going to be a staple of the offense?

Brad Smith ran the ball 2 times or so a game. He probably handed off another 2. Now I have the Jets GM going on the radio and telling me how much we missed Brad Smith. Yes those few plays were clearly the difference between 8-8 and 11-5. Get real. The Jets problem is they dont have a QB they trust to throw the football. So the solution is to get the one player in the NFL who is inarguably worse than Sanchez when it comes to passing the ball.

This isnt about football. Its about a team with a Giant inferiority complex. Tebow closes that gap and will be starting by years end if Sanchez doesnt blow up for the team. As I said yesterday its a good thing the Giants didnt go win in 2005 as well because we would have traded 7 draft picks to get Reggie Bush that year because he was the biggest star available.

Its such a bad chain of events. The Jets wanted Manning he quickly said no and instead of being patient with Sanchez they tried a publicity stunt and signed him to a guaranteed deal. They had 2 weeks to wait to make that move. Once they knew Denver was in play for Manning they had to have begun their discussions internally about Tebow. You wait and see what happens and then make the move. Then you cut Sanchez and just get the waiting over with. Now they are stuck with a guy they clearly dont want because they were rash with their decisions. And not just stuck this year but probably next as well unless they can find a trade parter. 19 million in cap charges in 2013 between two guys who cant hit the broadside of a barn. Thats just poor decision making,

[denden29]

I'm hardly a cheerleader for all (or any) things Tim Tebow, but the odds are strong that we will end up with a far less useful player than Tebow - particularly with production right away - by keeping our 4th round pick.

Stop it with the alleged super value of downgrading our 6th round pick to a 7th. If that is the make or break of our 2012 draft they can very easily reacquire that same level pick by dropping a whopping two slots in round 2 (or 4 slots in round 3) next month. Or drop back 1 slot in round 2 and throw back the 7th round pick we just got from Denver. Adding another mid-6th round pick is stupidly easy.

Did the Jets trade back in 2009 after they went after Sanchez? No they traded up for Greene having 3 picks that year. The next year they had 4 picks. The fact is they should have kept their picks and still traded back, they need more not less. This makes no sense from a football perspective nor financially. The question was do you think a 7th and Tebow is worth a 4th and 6th I say no. If the Jets were in great shape then fine but given there’s too many needs this move was a waste.

Kerry Rhodes was a 4th round pick started all 16 games at safety as a rookie, we could use that huh? You don't know what the picks are going to be but if you trade them away you'll never know.

The philosophy is X player is better than a 5th round pick. Holmes for example, well the Steelers turned our 5th round pick into Byrant McFadden and Antonio Brown, who had 1108 yards receiving last year. When people say this they don't know what they are potentially giving up and when you are up against the cap and need to get younger wasting a pick or two on a luxury is not the answer. Then the Jets had to give Holmes a huge contract, I wonder if Brown gets $10-12 million a year?

There is opportunity cost in every move you have to weigh the resources you have, will have, with your needs. Every time you trade for an older player they don’t last as long and cost you more. This trade has cost the Jets financial and draft resource, two things they need.

I don't think people realize the bad shape this team is heading for in 2013 you think it is bad now just wait, roster and cap wise. Every year the Jets are making splashy moves but the manner in which they build them team is not conducive for long term success. They were in no position to make this deal. It will bite them!

[Sperm Edwards]

Did the Jets trade back in 2009 after they went after Sanchez? No they traded up for Greene having 3 picks that year. The next year they had 4 picks. The fact is they should have kept their picks and still traded back, they need more not less. This makes no sense from a football perspective nor financially. The question was do you think a 7th and Tebow is worth a 4th and 6th I say no. If the Jets were in great shape then fine but given there’s too many needs this move was a waste.

Kerry Rhodes was a 4th round pick started all 16 games at safety as a rookie, we could use that huh? You don't know what the picks are going to be but if you trade them away you'll never know.

The philosophy is X player is better than a 5th round pick. Holmes for example, well the Steelers turned our 5th round pick into Byrant McFadden and Antonio Brown, who had 1108 yards receiving last year. When people say this they don't know what they are potentially giving up and when you are up against the cap and need to get younger wasting a pick or two on a luxury is not the answer. Then the Jets had to give Holmes a huge contract, I wonder if Brown gets $10-12 million a year?

There is opportunity cost in every move you have to weigh the resources you have, will have, with your needs. Every time you trade for an older player they don’t last as long and cost you more. This trade has cost the Jets financial and draft resource, two things they need.

I don't think people realize the bad shape this team is heading for in 2013 you think it is bad now just wait, roster and cap wise. Every year the Jets are making splashy moves but the manner in which they build them team is not conducive for long term success. They were in no position to make this deal. It will bite them!

You are extrapolating what was done this week onto other things that have no bearing on this trade. Tannenbaum recently has traded up and traded up and traded up. In the past he has also traded down. Whatever his history, it matters not. This trade is what this trade is.

Tebow was essentially traded for a 4th plus a little more value.

If the 6th rounder is so essential to our draft success the Jets can theoretically trade down 1 slot from #48 to #49 and throw back Denver's 7th, and recoup that same 6th round pick right back again.

Again, reacquiring a mid-6th round pick takes very little effort on draft day and, unless all other teams who pick around us have the exact same player rankings and needs well after the first round is over, such a trade down is unlikely to cost us any player we otherwise would have drafted if we'd stayed pat.

And I would trade our 5th round pick every single season forever if it could be moved for 12 games of someone of Holmes' talent, a season removed from being the SB MVP, coming off an 80-catch/1200-yard season, in a contract year, every time. I would bypass every 5th round pick we could ever get to acquire that type of player for 1 season. It was a great trade. Re-signing that head case for all that guaranteed money was not quite so wise.

You also are basing the "loss" of a draft pick as though it exists in a vacuum. Whatever you or I personally think of him, in Tebow the Jets actually did get a player - a young player just like you want - in exchange for that 4th round pick, you know. They didn't lose the 4th round pick and have no player or some washed up has-been to show for it.

[RevisIsland610]

I reply: what’s best for the bottom line is good football. Business wise, an 11-5 team that makes the playoffs is far superior to an 8-8 team that does not. If Sanchez is winning games, he will play. If he’s not, he won’t be playing for long. Period. And is that not what we want? You play to win the game.

Why is the team going to be 11-5 with Tebow minus two draft picks? Do I think Tebow and a 7th is worth a 4 & 6? No! The Jets have holes all over because they constantly trade away their draft picks, 23 in the last five years lowest in NFL, average is 40 in the same time frame.

The team needs a safety, corner, no Strickland or Cole, ILB, OLB, Tackle, WR, TE and RB. They need all these positions because they have not built through the draft like the Giants have, and don't say they have Eli Manning look at his numbers in 2007 – completion percentage 56% – QBR 73.9 much like Sanchez when they won the super bowl besides they drafted him.

This is not about Tebow simple the Jets have limited resources financially, older players who need replacing/upgrading and this team lack depth something awful. Since you can't get to many FA you have to draft, not trade them away for a position you just signed Stanton at and now you are going to lose $500,000 because he wants to leave.

Tebow is going to cost $2.6 million on the cap, his $1.5 million salary and the $1.5 million they are paying back to Denver. Yes they are paying $1.5 back in 2012.

I think the 4^th & 6^th, which would cost next to nothing on the cap, and the additional resources to use on other players would benefit the team much more this year and moving forward then a guy who is coming in for 5-8 plays a game.

The NFL is littered with quality 4^th and 6^th round picks, Leon Washington was a 4^th rounder and Matt Slauson a 6^th. You can’t just dismiss the picks like they are nothing cause they are later, it’s a numbers game the more picks you have the more players you’ll keep and develop.

The Jets have mortgaged the future way too often, this is just another example of selling PSL not making a wise football decision. The bottom line is this was the wrong move.

You make a compelling argument. I do agree they have traded away too many draft picks over the years and the lack of depth proves it. It remains to be seen whether this was a wise move or not.

[Darth Vader]

tebow piqued rex's interest bc Tebow is simply a playmaker.

a guy that with the ball in his hand can make something explosive happen. the jets lacked that last year.

Rex is on record saying that he wanted to upgrade the speed and the playmaking ability of the team.

Tebow is a guy that made incredible plays last year, and they think they can duplicate that in NY.

The Jets also did Sanchez a favor by getting a backup that has no chance of unseating him by throwing the ball. That is being misconstrued. Tim Tebow is Sanchez's backup? That's almost a step down from Brunell.

The "QB competition" aspect to this is laughable. its a straw man. Sanchez could beat Tebow out with his left foot tied behind his back.

Make no mistake, Tebow isnt a PR move. It's a football operations move with PR bells and whistles.

Tebow is also an insurance policy in case Sanchez ABSOLUTELY tanks. Tebow is plan B. There were no QBs on the market capable of coming in to fill the Franchise QB role in case Sanchez tanked. they perhaps figure, the team is talented enough to be in the running and if Sanchez tanks, they'll give the reins to tebow to run the show, see if they can't get some mojo that way, get in the playoffs and make some noise. stay relevant. see what sticks.

They effectively punted on pushing Sanchez, bc they want to give him every chance to succeed. but he basically only has this one year to do it. this is far from QB competition.

the thing tebow accomplishes is it makes the offense more robust and it makes sanchez entreched de facto. tebow has no ability to "push" sanchez. i'll say it again. tim tebow at this point has no ability to "push" mark sanchez. its like they dont even play the same position. plus tebow's mechanics are totally wack. he's got no future as a normal QB in this league. but he does have a future as a playmaker. and an insurance policy in case of Sanchez meltdown 2.0.

IMO, the FO is BANKING on Sanchez hitting stride this year.

[Ryno the Jet]

They need all these positions because they have not built through the draft like the Giants have, and don't say they have Eli Manning look at his numbers in 2007 – completion percentage 56% – QBR 73.9 much like Sanchez when they won the super bowl besides they drafted him.

Actually, they traded quite a bit to get Manning. They drafted Rivers.

I understand your point about trading picks away, but the Jets lost one pick in the Tebow trade. They may even get one back from the Stanton trade, plus they should get a few compensatory picks for FAs they lost. They could end up with 8 to 10 picks. You listed 8 positions of need, and there are still lots of roster fillers out there in FA. Not to mention, there are always cuts in June. Hell, the Bucs are cleaning house as we speak.

Relax

[denden29]

You are extrapolating what was done this week onto other things that have no bearing on this trade. Tannenbaum recently has traded up and traded up and traded up. In the past he has also traded down. Whatever his history, it matters not. This trade is what this trade is.

Tebow was essentially traded for a 4th plus a little more value.

If the 6th rounder is so essential to our draft success the Jets can theoretically trade down 1 slot from #48 to #49 and throw back Denver's 7th, and recoup that same 6th round pick right back again.

Again, reacquiring a mid-6th round pick takes very little effort on draft day and, unless all other teams who pick around us have the exact same player rankings and needs well after the first round is over, such a trade down is unlikely to cost us any player we otherwise would have drafted if we'd stayed pat.

And I would trade our 5th round pick every single season forever if it could be moved for 12 games of someone of Holmes' talent, a season removed from being the SB MVP, coming off an 80-catch/1200-yard season, in a contract year, every time. I would bypass every 5th round pick we could ever get to acquire that type of player for 1 season. It was a great trade. Re-signing that head case for all that guaranteed money was not quite so wise.

You also are basing the "loss" of a draft pick as though it exists in a vacuum. Whatever you or I personally think of him, in Tebow the Jets actually did get a player - a young player just like you want - in exchange for that 4th round pick, you know. They didn't lose the 4th round pick and have no player or some washed up has-been to show for it.

Tebow will cost the Jets $3 million this year $2.5 for him $500,000 for Stanton who wants to leave. Was getting a backup QB a need for this team? I said in my first post this is not about Tebow the player it is about resources.

If they traded a 4 & 6 for a good FS, maybe, but even though they can't afford these high salaries anymore. If the team wasn't in a financial pinch maybe this trade would make more sense. There are estimates that Tebow's salary will be $6-7 million in 2013 so you are going to pay $20 million for your starter and back up QB? You are going to release Tebow? Another Jets rental for draft picks.

Why couldn't the Jets trade back from #16 to #28 get #60 then use later round picks to move up in the draft? It is opportunity cost simple. If late round picks mean nothing why don't we have a 2 round draft? I have a good idea how about trading all our picks away, they mean nothing. The facts are the Jets year after year have so few draft picks they can't afford it anymore. The facts are, 23 picks in the last 5 years the bill has come due.

If you or others reading want just write out the current roster positions and see if you think the Jets are in such good shape? Look at the 2013 free agents as well you may not have money to resigning them, where are the replacements coming from?

I would have loved to have signed Mario Williams but the present state of the team prevents it. Well the present state of the team should have prevented giving up resources for a luxury, whose sole purpose is to sell jerseys and tickets.

When you talk about Holmes and Cromartie both given up for picks but what would those picks have been? You’d have $20 million more free dollars to spend in ‘12/’13 if you never made those trades. Maybe the 2 draft picks and the extra money would have more value to the team, you‘d end up with like 5-6 players instead of two, depth you need. You can’t just dismiss the draft pick would not be better then Holmes cost wise after what has happened with him in 2011.

Jeremy Kerley was last year’s 5^th, he’s going to be our slot receiver and Sanchez seems to be comfortable with him. What is Kerley costing this year $500,000? Freeing up resources to put elsewhere, if the Jets traded for Brandon Marshal they’d have a great player but a $9 million salary. Somebody has to be the underpaid overachiever, where do you get that?

I challenge anyone to look at the Giants and Green Bay’s Roster and see where their players come from and how the produce for the team.

This was a bad football move and the train wreck is coming.

.

[ZachEY]

I just cant see defending the trade. Not because of draft value (those picks mean almost nothing) but because it just makes no football sense. The NFL is all about passing for 4500+ yards. Its not about running the wildcat or some wild variation of the college spread offense. Since the Wildcat began all of 2 teams have made the playoffs. The Chad led Dolphins which took a Jets collapse and one of the easiest schedules in the history of the NFL and last years Broncos who won a division that the other 3 teams all did their best to give away. Thats it. The Dolphins were a laughingstock around the Jets fans on the boards when they were tryiing to beat Rex with their Wildcat. Even when it worked it was a joke. Now its going to be a staple of the offense?

Brad Smith ran the ball 2 times or so a game. He probably handed off another 2. Now I have the Jets GM going on the radio and telling me how much we missed Brad Smith. Yes those few plays were clearly the difference between 8-8 and 11-5. Get real. The Jets problem is they dont have a QB they trust to throw the football. So the solution is to get the one player in the NFL who is inarguably worse than Sanchez when it comes to passing the ball.

This isnt about football. Its about a team with a Giant inferiority complex. Tebow closes that gap and will be starting by years end if Sanchez doesnt blow up for the team. As I said yesterday its a good thing the Giants didnt go win in 2005 as well because we would have traded 7 draft picks to get Reggie Bush that year because he was the biggest star available.

Its such a bad chain of events. The Jets wanted Manning he quickly said no and instead of being patient with Sanchez they tried a publicity stunt and signed him to a guaranteed deal. They had 2 weeks to wait to make that move. Once they knew Denver was in play for Manning they had to have begun their discussions internally about Tebow. You wait and see what happens and then make the move. Then you cut Sanchez and just get the waiting over with. Now they are stuck with a guy they clearly dont want because they were rash with their decisions. And not just stuck this year but probably next as well unless they can find a trade parter. 19 million in cap charges in 2013 between two guys who cant hit the broadside of a barn. Thats just poor decision making,

See, and I think that the fact that the NFL is all about throwing the ball all over the field is exactly why this move makes sense.

We don't have a player on the roster that can do that. While some, myself included, have be killing Sanchez, others have said, "Elite QBs don't grow on trees". Well, that's true. And the Jets simply don't have the player on the roster who can throw the ball all over the field. Sanchez, by every statistical measure, is a bad QB at present. There's not a lot saying he will improve either.

Because they're not going to get rid of Sanchez, this move takes the ball out of his hands more. This offense will be better when Sanchez does not have the ball in his hands, plain and simple. Ground and Pound may be dead in this league, but we're going to shoot for the statistical anomaly, because the other option is trying to throw with Sanchez, and we've seen how that goes. Recent NFL history says this won't work, but it's probably the better option than letting Sanchez have the keys to the offense again.

Tebow makes the Jets a better offensive team. That's pretty sad, but it's true. The Sanchez extension looks even worse now, but there's nothing much we can do about that. We're going to win more games next year with Sanchez/Tebow than with just Sanchez. And soon, we'll draft another QB and hope he doesn't suck...

[denden29]

Actually, they traded quite a bit to get Manning. They drafted Rivers.

I understand your point about trading picks away, but the Jets lost one pick in the Tebow trade. They may even get one back from the Stanton trade, plus they should get a few compensatory picks for FAs they lost. They could end up with 8 to 10 picks. You listed 8 positions of need, and there are still lots of roster fillers out there in FA. Not to mention, there are always cuts in June. Hell, the Bucs are cleaning house as we speak.

Relax

Let me say this I have no problem trading picks you should use all resources FA, trades and the draft but the Jets are heading for disaster. I look at the 2013 salaries and I wonder how they are going to field a team next year but they go out and waste resources on something they don't really need?

Tebow will cost $3 million this year money I think should be spent elsewhere like you've mentioned. Take a look at the 2013 free agents on the team and think of all the holes the team has to fill this year and you'll understand my concern.

Tanny has one play in his book. We couldn't even secure Reggie Nelson who signed a crap contract with Cinci that's how tight the money is. Scott has one foot out the door and he’ll cost $7.2 million if released.

The cracks started to show last year from the manner in which they built. Look they had success and made runs, now it is time to pay the piper, but they refuse to accept reality. Every Jets fan hate Hunter and Smith but they are going to play this year maybe even start, given Landry's injury history.

The bottom line is the train wreck is coming.

[Sperm Edwards]

Tebow will cost the Jets $3 million this year $2.5 for him $500,000 for Stanton who wants to leave. Was getting a backup QB a need for this team? I said in my first post this is not about Tebow the player it is about resources.

If they traded a 4 & 6 for a good FS, maybe, but even though they can't afford these high salaries anymore. If the team wasn't in a financial pinch maybe this trade would make more sense. There are estimates that Tebow's salary will be $6-7 million in 2013 so you are going to pay $20 million for your starter and back up QB? You are going to release Tebow? Another Jets rental for draft picks.

Why couldn't the Jets trade back from #16 to #28 get #60 then use later round picks to move up in the draft? It is opportunity cost simple. If late round picks mean nothing why don't we have a 2 round draft? I have a good idea how about trading all our picks away, they mean nothing. The facts are the Jets year after year have so few draft picks they can't afford it anymore. The facts are, 23 picks in the last 5 years the bill has come due.

If you or others reading want just write out the current roster positions and see if you think the Jets are in such good shape? Look at the 2013 free agents as well you may not have money to resigning them, where are the replacements coming from?

I would have loved to have signed Mario Williams but the present state of the team prevents it. Well the present state of the team should have prevented giving up resources for a luxury, whose sole purpose is to sell jerseys and tickets.

When you talk about Holmes and Cromartie both given up for picks but what would those picks have been? You’d have $20 million more free dollars to spend in ‘12/’13 if you never made those trades. Maybe the 2 draft picks and the extra money would have more value to the team, you‘d end up with like 5-6 players instead of two, depth you need. You can’t just dismiss the draft pick would not be better then Holmes cost wise after what has happened with him in 2011.

Jeremy Kerley was last year’s 5^th, he’s going to be our slot receiver and Sanchez seems to be comfortable with him. What is Kerley costing this year $500,000? Freeing up resources to put elsewhere, if the Jets traded for Brandon Marshal they’d have a great player but a $9 million salary. Somebody has to be the underpaid overachiever, where do you get that?

I challenge anyone to look at the Giants and Green Bay’s Roster and see where their players come from and how the produce for the team.

This was a bad football move and the train wreck is coming.

.

If you're looking for an argument that Tannenbaum has gone overboard in FA and overpaid a bunch of merely good players like they are great, you're barking up the wrong tree. There are a bunch of signings and especially recent re-signings I hated because the cap hit is too high to justify for the player: Scott, Harris, Cromartie, and Holmes are the worst of the worst. Guaranteeing Sanchez 2 more seasons of 100% job security was just flat-out retarded. At the time of their signings, Pace and Scott and Harris were each the highest-paid player with the most guaranteed money at their position in NFL history and not one had been a great superstar before that.

And I said move back a slot or two in round 2 or a few slots in round 3 if you wanted to recoup a 6th round pick. You aren't going to get an appreciably lower-ranked player there. Your reply was to extrapolate that and say why not drop from #16 to #28 which is not at all the same thing because you are getting a totally different tier prospect. The only thing similar in your over-extrapolation is that they are both trade-downs but they have totally dissimilar effects.

As others have pointed out we should still end up with about 8 picks this year and possibly as many as 10. How many players do you think we need to draft in 1 season? If we draft 10 they aren't all making the team. If we draft 8 they probably aren't all making the team either. I understand you're losing out on the crap-shoot on an extra pick, but Tebow is 1 player who will effectively cost 1 pick in the middle of round 4. He doesn't prevent us from drafting 2 or 3 or 5 extra picks or have anything to do with the past over-trading of picks for players.

Now if he's already slated to earn $6M next year then I agree this was a bad move because his contract is then effectively a 1 year deal for Tebow for a 4th rounder. I don't know that he's reached any of those escalators yet. The Jets owe Tebow about $800K/year in the bonus they split with Denver. His base salary is $1.1M. Added together that is $1.9M, not $3M. And while a typical 4th round pick will have a smaller cap hit, it is unlikely that such a pick will have plays designed for him right away. If his contract ends up being 3 years at about $2M/year I'm fine with it because he will see the football enough to justify that type of cap hit. Far more than Brad Smith who people whine about letting go even though Buffalo offered him twice what I think Tebow's going to make.

I'm not saying Tebow was some stroke of genius acquisition. I'm saying it wasn't necessarily a terrible pickup, and may very well prove to be a good one, given who our crappy starting QB is. If your complaint is about the loss of a little over $1M in cap space to have Tebow over a drafted 4th rounder (assuming that 4th rounder is actually useful or even makes the team), there are much more egregious wastes of cap space on this roster.

Moving down from the 6th round to the 7th isn't meaningless because there are never good or useful players drafted in round 6. It's meaningless because, again, it is stupidly easy to reacquire that same level pick by making an earlier trade-down that has little or no impact on that earlier pick.

Reggie Nelson? So you're killing the Jets for not overpaying to sign him and cite this inability as being due to overpaying for other players who are similarly not worth their deals. You realize you just did that, yes? Then next year if we're tight again, you or someone making that same argument next year will point to overpaying Reggie Nelson as a reason we lost out on next year's perceived treasure. Nelson was using us to up his dollars with Cincy. We were interested in him at our price not any price, and that is actually a refreshing change one would think you'd embrace.

[GREENBEAN]

I also like the signing and I am not a fan of Tanny by any means. I see it as a low risk move that can have significant benefits on the field. We just gave up a 4th round essentially for a talented football player. He can't throw very well but the kid wins. Period. I think he could be very effective in the wildcat or some other variation that maximizes his talent. I've never seen a player get so much grief even after taking over a 1-4 team that was going nowhere to a divsion title and a playoff win against the steelers. Which move has more risk? Signing the 36 year old Peyton Manning coming off serious neck surgery who hasn't played in a year to a 5 year 96 million contract or getting Tebow for a mid-round draft pick and paying him only about 1 mil per year?

Most logical thread ever!!!

I can't believe that everyone has just erased all of the risk from what the truth behind Manning really is and are calling Elway a genius. If manning goes down early( not rooting for that of course) or is rusty, Elway will look like the biggest idiot of all time. 96 mil for an old man who hasn't played in a year and has four neck surgeries will all of the sudden be exposed in the sunlight and everyone will talk as if they knew it was a bad move to jettison the QB who took them to the playoffs last year.

While I'm not rooting for injury, I most certainly am rooting for failure in Denver. I absolutely love when the masses and talking heads are proven wrong. (my emotional take )

This thread takes all of the emotion out of the trade and adds the logical points. We added a truly talented and proven winner to the org for pretty much chump change. Everyone was calling for Sanchez to have some competition. Well... it's here.

The Redskins just traded 3 number one picks for a guy who's never played a down in the NFL. yet we are the bufoons. Ok... fine.

When we are a hard nosed pound it in your face team this season who grinds out victory after victory while manning is icing his neck and RG3 is an eratic kid who's expected to carry the ailing DC franchise we will see who's laughing.

[Bugg]

Suspect this move was motivated by 2 things-marketing and 2 coaches in Ryan and Sparano who lost to Tebow. Problem is ground and pound is really hump and dump in 2012. The rules BEG you to pass. And the comparisons between todays' game with LBs who are 260 and faster than a running back in the 1970s make the idea that some Billy Kilmer/Bobby Douglass offense seem a worse bet than throwing the ball effectively.We are not going old school, we're going backward.

Burden on Sanchez to make two QBs work

By MIKE VACCARO

Last Updated: 7:38 AM, March 23, 2012

Posted: 1:14 AM, March 23, 2012

ATLANTA — Having two quarterbacks can work. Don Shula’s career might have looked a whole lot different if he hadn’t had Earl Morrall to take over for Johnny Unitas in 1968 and Bob Griese in 1972, if he didn’t have Don Strock to caddy for David Woodley in 1982.

One of the most glamorous teams in NFL history were the L.A. Rams of the early-’50s, a team that won one title and played for two others by splitting the position of quarterback in two and giving half the snaps to Bob Waterfield and the other half to Norman Van Brocklin.

And nobody has a deeper understanding of the usefulness of quarterbacking depth than the Giants. Jeff Hostetler happened to be a terrific emergency solution in 1990 when Phil Simms’ ankle went to seed. For years, the 1956 team was considered the franchise’s gold standard, and one of the reasons for that was its fabled quarterback, Chuckin’ Charlie Conerly.

Would you like to guess how many games Conerly started that year?

The answer is zero. Vince Lombardi, the team’s offensive coordinator, started Don Heinrich every game, figuring Conerly could watch a little from the bench, study the defense and then be ready to apply what he had seen to the huddle. Conerly, as you might suspect, didn’t adore that plan as he did, say, Toots Shor’s saloon.

“If you have pride, you want to start, I wanted to start,” Conerly — who would share time with Y.A. Tittle in all 13 games of his last year, 1961, too — said in 1992. “I hated that Lombardi did that. But, hey, it worked. Argue against winning a title. You can’t.”

OK. We can put on the brakes here, because this is 2012, and the two primary quarterbacks currently in the employ of the Jets, Mark Sanchez and Tim Tebow, haven’t yet merited inclusion in the same encyclopedia as most of those names, let alone the same page.

And the Jets continue to insist that Sanchez is their man, that Tebow is a backup who will be integrated into other aspects of the offense, that the inevitable chants that will rain down at MetLife Stadium the first time Sanchez sniffs trouble will fall on deaf — or at least resistant — ears.

In a perfect world, Sanchez has a career year next year, Tony Sparano figures out a way to get Tebow five or six touches a game, the Jets win 12 times and everyone is delighted. Even in a less-than-perfect world, if Sanchez winds up flat on his back with busted ribs or a dangling shoulder, you have to figure Tebow, even with his limitations, is a better choice than Greg McElroy or Drew Stanton.

That should stir the memory bank if you are a Jets fan of a certain vintage. Because it was on Sept. 24, 1978, when Richard Todd was creamed by a Redskins rush at old RFK Stadium, left the game, and Matt Robinson came trotting in to replace him.

“I had nothing to lose,” Robinson said in 2005. “And I played that way.”

The Jets were 1-3 following three straight seasons when they’d been 9-33. Robinson offered light and hope: He went 6-5 in 11 starts the rest of that year, led the Jets to an 8-8 record and became the first quarterback to recognize the vertical greatness of Wesley Walker.

It complicated things. Todd had gotten off to a rough start with Jets fans reminiscent of Sanchez, his performance undermining high expectations. Robinson was the people’s choice, and soon he was Walt Michaels’ choice to start the 1979 season. That didn’t sit well with Todd.

“I was young and I didn’t handle it great,” Todd said in 2005. “I wish I could have been more gracious, but I understand why I wasn’t. I had to learn to be a pro.”

Robinson’s tale faded quickly, after a late night at Bill’s Meadowbrook across the street from the Jets old Hofstra headquarters. Depending on who tells the story he sprained his throwing thumb arm wrestling with Joe Klecko or tripping over a cooler in his room before the season opener.

So, yes: It can go The Other Way, as the Jets have been nice enough to prove in their own history. It’s good to have depth, until depth becomes a problem. Will it be a problem? That’s the tricky part. Fairly or not, that’s on Sanchez. He has to learn to be a pro.

michael.vaccaro@nypost.com

[JustInFudge]

See, and I think that the fact that the NFL is all about throwing the ball all over the field is exactly why this move makes sense.

We don't have a player on the roster that can do that. While some, myself included, have be killing Sanchez, others have said, "Elite QBs don't grow on trees". Well, that's true. And the Jets simply don't have the player on the roster who can throw the ball all over the field. Sanchez, by every statistical measure, is a bad QB at present. There's not a lot saying he will improve either.

Because they're not going to get rid of Sanchez, this move takes the ball out of his hands more. This offense will be better when Sanchez does not have the ball in his hands, plain and simple. Ground and Pound may be dead in this league, but we're going to shoot for the statistical anomaly, because the other option is trying to throw with Sanchez, and we've seen how that goes. Recent NFL history says this won't work, but it's probably the better option than letting Sanchez have the keys to the offense again.

Tebow makes the Jets a better offensive team. That's pretty sad, but it's true. The Sanchez extension looks even worse now, but there's nothing much we can do about that. We're going to win more games next year with Sanchez/Tebow than with just Sanchez. And soon, we'll draft another QB and hope he doesn't suck...

Its a wrinkle the Jets were going to run regardless of Tebow. Last year the Jets ran the wildcat 43 times...I think the Dolphags were in like the high 50'. So all the Jets did was go and get the guy that runs that wrinkle better than anyone in the league. The Jets feel that a 4th round pick is equivalent value for someone who gets maybe 5 touches a game (which would be an increase over last season) which is essentially just running the ball 5 more times a game, something I think everyone can agree we probably should have done more of last season and would have had more wins.

I really see no downside in this at all, Tebow love aside.

[denden29]

If you're looking for an argument that Tannenbaum has gone overboard in FA and overpaid a bunch of merely good players like they are great, you're barking up the wrong tree. There are a bunch of signings and especially recent re-signings I hated because the cap hit is too high to justify for the player: Scott, Harris, Cromartie, and Holmes are the worst of the worst. Guaranteeing Sanchez 2 more seasons of 100% job security was just flat-out retarded. At the time of their signings, Pace and Scott and Harris were each the highest-paid player with the most guaranteed money at their position in NFL history and not one had been a great superstar before that.

And I said move back a slot or two in round 2 or a few slots in round 3 if you wanted to recoup a 6th round pick. You aren't going to get an appreciably lower-ranked player there. Your reply was to extrapolate that and say why not drop from #16 to #28 which is not at all the same thing because you are getting a totally different tier prospect. The only thing similar in your over-extrapolation is that they are both trade-downs but they have totally dissimilar effects.

As others have pointed out we should still end up with about 8 picks this year and possibly as many as 10. How many players do you think we need to draft in 1 season? If we draft 10 they aren't all making the team. If we draft 8 they probably aren't all making the team either. I understand you're losing out on the crap-shoot on an extra pick, but Tebow is 1 player who will effectively cost 1 pick in the middle of round 4. He doesn't prevent us from drafting 2 or 3 or 5 extra picks or have anything to do with the past over-trading of picks for players.

Now if he's already slated to earn $6M next year then I agree this was a bad move because his contract is then effectively a 1 year deal for Tebow for a 4th rounder. I don't know that he's reached any of those escalators yet. The Jets owe Tebow about $800K/year in the bonus they split with Denver. His base salary is $1.1M. Added together that is $1.9M, not $3M. And while a typical 4th round pick will have a smaller cap hit, it is unlikely that such a pick will have plays designed for him right away. If his contract ends up being 3 years at about $2M/year I'm fine with it because he will see the football enough to justify that type of cap hit. Far more than Brad Smith who people whine about letting go even though Buffalo offered him twice what I think Tebow's going to make.

I'm not saying Tebow was some stroke of genius acquisition. I'm saying it wasn't necessarily a terrible pickup, and may very well prove to be a good one, given who our crappy starting QB is. If your complaint is about the loss of a little over $1M in cap space to have Tebow over a drafted 4th rounder (assuming that 4th rounder is actually useful or even makes the team), there are much more egregious wastes of cap space on this roster.

Moving down from the 6th round to the 7th isn't meaningless because there are never good or useful players drafted in round 6. It's meaningless because, again, it is stupidly easy to reacquire that same level pick by making an earlier trade-down that has little or no impact on that earlier pick.

Reggie Nelson? So you're killing the Jets for not overpaying to sign him and cite this inability as being due to overpaying for other players who are similarly not worth their deals. You realize you just did that, yes? Then next year if we're tight again, you or someone making that same argument next year will point to overpaying Reggie Nelson as a reason we lost out on next year's perceived treasure. Nelson was using us to up his dollars with Cincy. We were interested in him at our price not any price, and that is actually a refreshing change one would think you'd embrace.

According to Jason and ESPN Tebow will cost $1.5 million in base salary in 2012, $1.1 million and a $470,000 escalator. Then the Jets are set to repay $1.5 million back to Denver in 2012 that is $3 million. In 2013 Tebow is set to make $1 million and the Jets will repay $1 million so he will count $2 million then if he doesn't hit his incentive. So it is 3 years $6 million 2014 would be cheap. If you trade or release Stanton $500,000 in dead money.

The Reggie Nelson argument isn't about the signing or not. The fact is they have a hard time being competitive with other teams in better financial shape. The deal Nelson signed was not very impressive I thought the Jets, even with limited resources, could have done better to secure a position of need, without much damage. They still need a one high safety type and they are in short supply. Maybe you could draft one but a FA cut is more likely, I hope the team doesn’t have to overpay late in camp for a player they need that might cost more than Nelson would have.

People say the cap will go up so no big deal but the cap goes up for all teams. With the minimum salaries rising and the cap floor in place veterans are going to cost more. The Jets will not be in position to afford FA in 2013, like this year, so I feel you have to use the draft as much as possible to help out.

I’m not ripping Tanny for his decisions or drafting, facts are the Jets have built in a hard and fast manner and had success doing so. You can evaluate the moves but they are over and now the bill has come in. So the Jets needed to bite the bullet this year and be frugal moving forward to put the team back on a stable course. They are in transition and will need to be turned over in the next year or so.

They seem to be doing this looking for bargains and then they trade away picks for a position they don't need, using financial and draft resources to do so. I feel keeping the picks and the salary would benefit the team more moving forward then having Tebow. You can debate this but that’s how I feel.

In 2013 they are losing Thomas, Pace, Scott, and Smith all likely cut. You have your FA in 2013 like Moore, Greene, Keller and Slauson and you have a tight budget. Instead they brought in what I feel is a luxury and the potential is there for controversy and disaster moving forward. This may not happen but I don't like turning over the apple cart in this manner.

Maybe I'm wrong but this situation seems like sink or swim. If Tebow and Sanchez are on again off again starting, who should play the team is screwed. This team needs les drama not more.

It seems like you agree that this was not a wise move but for different reasons and I respect you position. I enjoy expressing my opinion, it is what I believe, but nothing would make me happier then to be 100% wrong about this deal.

[DW1]

I have returned to state my 25 cents on the Tebowmania-

Tebow is a GREAT pick up for you clowns. Just amazed that you can't see it, being that New York fans know their football. But it seems emotions are getting the best of you clowns.

Tebow brings so much depth to the QB situation. NO, he will not be competing for a starting job. Helll NO. This will just put a fire on that clown Sanchez that you call a QB. Tebow is not an every down QB. Period. But in short yardage situations? Wildcat? C'mon guys. The dude is a beast. Remember when he beat you clowns like last year on Thursday night? Geeeesh. 12-15 snaps a game will help you clowns a great deal. Look at last year when you clowns lost to the great Miami Dolphins in week 17. Sanchez's pick at the end of the game. Shoot, Tebow would have just ran for the 1st. I just wish we grabbed him. Oh well.

I love watching you clowns squirm. Haaaahaaaaaaaa.

[Stonehands]

Everyone is quick to mention that this starts a QB controversy and I say "hogwash". This gives us QB depth, Sanchez's poor play is what creates a controversy. We have finally added a QB capable of winning an NFL game to back up Sanchez, now Mark needs to play well and keep him on the bench. It is as simple as that.

[Sperm Edwards]

According to Jason and ESPN Tebow will cost $1.5 million in base salary in 2012, $1.1 million and a $470,000 escalator. Then the Jets are set to repay $1.5 million back to Denver in 2012 that is $3 million. In 2013 Tebow is set to make $1 million and the Jets will repay $1 million so he will count $2 million then if he doesn't hit his incentive. So it is 3 years $6 million 2014 would be cheap. If you trade or release Stanton $500,000 in dead money.

The Reggie Nelson argument isn't about the signing or not. The fact is they have a hard time being competitive with other teams in better financial shape. The deal Nelson signed was not very impressive I thought the Jets, even with limited resources, could have done better to secure a position of need, without much damage. They still need a one high safety type and they are in short supply. Maybe you could draft one but a FA cut is more likely, I hope the team doesn’t have to overpay late in camp for a player they need that might cost more than Nelson would have.

People say the cap will go up so no big deal but the cap goes up for all teams. With the minimum salaries rising and the cap floor in place veterans are going to cost more. The Jets will not be in position to afford FA in 2013, like this year, so I feel you have to use the draft as much as possible to help out.

I’m not ripping Tanny for his decisions or drafting, facts are the Jets have built in a hard and fast manner and had success doing so. You can evaluate the moves but they are over and now the bill has come in. So the Jets needed to bite the bullet this year and be frugal moving forward to put the team back on a stable course. They are in transition and will need to be turned over in the next year or so.

They seem to be doing this looking for bargains and then they trade away picks for a position they don't need, using financial and draft resources to do so. I feel keeping the picks and the salary would benefit the team more moving forward then having Tebow. You can debate this but that’s how I feel.

In 2013 they are losing Thomas, Pace, Scott, and Smith all likely cut. You have your FA in 2013 like Moore, Greene, Keller and Slauson and you have a tight budget. Instead they brought in what I feel is a luxury and the potential is there for controversy and disaster moving forward. This may not happen but I don't like turning over the apple cart in this manner.

Maybe I'm wrong but this situation seems like sink or swim. If Tebow and Sanchez are on again off again starting, who should play the team is screwed. This team needs les drama not more.

It seems like you agree that this was not a wise move but for different reasons and I respect you position. I enjoy expressing my opinion, it is what I believe, but nothing would make me happier then to be 100% wrong about this deal.

I think it's all stupid because they've built around a lousy and immature QB, and then just double-downed on him when they could have had him playing for his job instead.

They overpaid for way too many people who are very limited. Harris is a solid player but he's slow and can't cover. He's costing franchise QB cap hits the next couple of seasons. Cromartie is a solid CB and would be a #1 on some teams. But he isn't worth $8M/year when we're already paying Revis $12M. And we got off CHEAPER on that one only because Nnamdi chose the Eagles, saving us another $4M/year. Bart Scott for $8M/year. Calvin Pace for $7M/year. Mark Sanchez for $10-12M/year. Santonio Holmes for $9M/year. All the deals back-loaded with high guarantees and smaller hits in year 1 (or years 1-2), so it's impossible to cut or trade and it's unaffordable to even bring in someone to compete.

It's ok - in fact, at times it's necessary - to overpay a couple of players if you really lack a solid core. But you can't pay elite players (Ferguson, Mangold, Revis) appropriate high-dollar contracts AND overpay merely good or very good players as though they are elite or super-elite as well.

[denden29]

I think it's all stupid because they've built around a lousy and immature QB, and then just double-downed on him when they could have had him playing for his job instead.

They overpaid for way too many people who are very limited. Harris is a solid player but he's slow and can't cover. He's costing franchise QB cap hits the next couple of seasons. Cromartie is a solid CB and would be a #1 on some teams. But he isn't worth $8M/year when we're already paying Revis $12M. And we got off CHEAPER on that one only because Nnamdi chose the Eagles, saving us another $4M/year. Bart Scott for $8M/year. Calvin Pace for $7M/year. Mark Sanchez for $10-12M/year. Santonio Holmes for $9M/year. All the deals back-loaded with high guarantees and smaller hits in year 1 (or years 1-2), so it's impossible to cut or trade and it's unaffordable to even bring in someone to compete.

It's ok - in fact, at times it's necessary - to overpay a couple of players if you really lack a solid core. But you can't pay elite players (Ferguson, Mangold, Revis) appropriate high-dollar contracts AND overpay merely good or very good players as though they are elite or super-elite as well.

I agree100% with everything you said. This is why I don’t like the Tebow deal. Need to start grooming the player who will replace these guys you are stuck with who have big contracts. If the Jets didn’t have such roster and cap issues I wouldn’t mind this trade.

I know you understand why the Sanchez deal was terrible. People think the Jets saved so much cap space but between 2012-13 it is a savings of $2 million and you are stuck with Sanchez. I think you’d agree, and I felt this strongly, the Jets should have done everything in their power to leave cutting Sanchez in 2013 open. People say Tebow will push Sanchez well the fear of being cut next year would have pushed him more.

I’d like to have seen the Jets draft 8-10 players in 2012. The league average is 40 over the past five years while the Jets have had 23. What I meant by trading back in the first round was to possible use later round picks to move up and still get the 8-10 players you are looking for.

Greene is a good example. I happen to think he’s been a good player at a reasonable price but the Jets did have to trade up to get him. If they like a player and feel the need to move up they should but hopefully they take advantage of a trade down when possible to make sure you get quality and quantity.

There are plenty of late round gems out there and I felt the Jets have to have an above average draft this year in order to maintain success. I also felt they may need to press some rookies into duty before they are ready but we’ll have to just deal with the learning curve.

The team does has less resources now in this draft but who knows maybe the player they pick with Denver’s 7^th will be a Pro Bowler while Denver ends up with two bust. We’ll hope this is the case.

[Sperm Edwards]

I agree100% with everything you said. This is why I don’t like the Tebow deal. Need to start grooming the player who will replace these guys you are stuck with who have big contracts. If the Jets didn’t have such roster and cap issues I wouldn’t mind this trade.

I know you understand why the Sanchez deal was terrible. People think the Jets saved so much cap space but between 2012-13 it is a savings of $2 million and you are stuck with Sanchez. I think you’d agree, and I felt this strongly, the Jets should have done everything in their power to leave cutting Sanchez in 2013 open. People say Tebow will push Sanchez well the fear of being cut next year would have pushed him more.

I’d like to have seen the Jets draft 8-10 players in 2012. The league average is 40 over the past five years while the Jets have had 23. What I meant by trading back in the first round was to possible use later round picks to move up and still get the 8-10 players you are looking for.

Greene is a good example. I happen to think he’s been a good player at a reasonable price but the Jets did have to trade up to get him. If they like a player and feel the need to move up they should but hopefully they take advantage of a trade down when possible to make sure you get quality and quantity.

There are plenty of late round gems out there and I felt the Jets have to have an above average draft this year in order to maintain success. I also felt they may need to press some rookies into duty before they are ready but we’ll have to just deal with the learning curve.

The team does has less resources now in this draft but who knows maybe the player they pick with Denver’s 7^th will be a Pro Bowler while Denver ends up with two bust. We’ll hope this is the case.

The Jets still have 6 draft picks and are looking at potential conditional draft picks for Shaun Ellis, Drew Coleman, Braylon Edwards, and Brad Smith. There is also plenty of opportunity in any draft to trade down a couple of slots here & there and pick up a couple more.

If you want to get pissed about losing a draft pick, we might lose one of the compensatory picks because we signed UFA Drew Stanton (though I'm sure only like the 40th-50th pick in round 7 which is like an UDFA already). So even if we are able to trade him for a pick it would be a wash. Maybe.

[Jetscode1]

tebow piqued rex's interest bc Tebow is simply a playmaker.

a guy that with the ball in his hand can make something explosive happen. the jets lacked that last year.

Rex is on record saying that he wanted to upgrade the speed and the playmaking ability of the team.

Tebow is a guy that made incredible plays last year, and they think they can duplicate that in NY.

The Jets also did Sanchez a favor by getting a backup that has no chance of unseating him by throwing the ball. That is being misconstrued. Tim Tebow is Sanchez's backup? That's almost a step down from Brunell.

The "QB competition" aspect to this is laughable. its a straw man. Sanchez could beat Tebow out with his left foot tied behind his back.

Make no mistake, Tebow isnt a PR move. It's a football operations move with PR bells and whistles.

Tebow is also an insurance policy in case Sanchez ABSOLUTELY tanks. Tebow is plan B. There were no QBs on the market capable of coming in to fill the Franchise QB role in case Sanchez tanked. they perhaps figure, the team is talented enough to be in the running and if Sanchez tanks, they'll give the reins to tebow to run the show, see if they can't get some mojo that way, get in the playoffs and make some noise. stay relevant. see what sticks.

They effectively punted on pushing Sanchez, bc they want to give him every chance to succeed. but he basically only has this one year to do it. this is far from QB competition.

the thing tebow accomplishes is it makes the offense more robust and it makes sanchez entreched de facto. tebow has no ability to "push" sanchez. i'll say it again. tim tebow at this point has no ability to "push" mark sanchez. its like they dont even play the same position. plus tebow's mechanics are totally wack. he's got no future as a normal QB in this league. but he does have a future as a playmaker. and an insurance policy in case of Sanchez meltdown 2.0.

IMO, the FO is BANKING on Sanchez hitting stride this year.

This.

[Garb]

Just read an interesting comment by Albert Breer. I'm paraphrasing, but in essence he said that if people view Tebow as a "winner" and someone that "just wins games," then using the same criteria Mark Sanchez should be viewed the same way.

Let's see - Sanchez was involved in some last minute game heroics in his first two years. Sanchez was the QB of two Jets teams that made it to the Championship game. Both teams had 8-8 records last year, correct? What am I missing besides the "perception?" Is that perception real, made up, and/or exagerated by good 'ole ESPN and the NFL Network?

[Garb]

edit - repost of above. Ooops!

[bitonti]

Its a wrinkle the Jets were going to run regardless of Tebow. Last year the Jets ran the wildcat 43 times...I think the Dolphags were in like the high 50'. So all the Jets did was go and get the guy that runs that wrinkle better than anyone in the league. The Jets feel that a 4th round pick is equivalent value for someone who gets maybe 5 touches a game (which would be an increase over last season) which is essentially just running the ball 5 more times a game, something I think everyone can agree we probably should have done more of last season and would have had more wins.

I really see no downside in this at all, Tebow love aside.

+1 there is no downside to this trade. it can only help.

[PFSIKH]

+1 there is no downside to this trade. it can only help.

There is a downside to everything.

I like the move in that, from a Jets perspective, it adds a weapon to the Jets.

I was hoping that the Patriots would trade for Timmie because I could see him being a weapon. Not as a Wildcat QB though. I do not want Brady off the field for anything.

I would think the same thing for Sanchez. Line him up with him and figure it out.

As for the downside, the Jets' locker room had a problem last year. While Timmie is far from a cancer like Santonio, it is not helping the team off the field.

You had players that were openly critical (Santonio), openly running their mouth (McElroy), or anonymously asking for Peyton. Now, you bring in TImmie and his unintentional divisiveness. And this is all being managed by Ryan and his character. All he has done this off-season is try to run Mark out of town by pursuing Peyton and now has brought in Timmie to run the wildcat. Oh, and BTW Timmie is the back-up and you had to trade the first backup you signed this off-season.

No downside? Is there an upside?