The "Mount Rushmore of Quarterbacks": Is it incomplete?

[Jetsfan80]

With maybe the final Peyton-Brady showdown coming up this week, there's been a lot of "legacy talk" about these two guys.  ESPN came out with a pretty good article about it. 

 

However, I'm not here to talk about whether you think Peyton or Brady is better.  Mostly that comes down to preference, because they both were really, REALLY f*cking good.  Of this no one can deny.

 

But the Mount Rushmore of QB's?  Now that's where it gets interesting.

 

Because in my mind, there are only three QB's who were Titans among the rest.  Peyton, Brady and Joe Montana. 

 

Sure, some people can argue that Montana was a "System QB" who had Jerry Rice and Bill Walsh.  And maybe you have a point there.  But when it comes to innovations in the NFL, generally the league figures those things out pretty quickly.  The 46 Bear Defense, the Hurry-Up, the Wildcat, the Read Option....those typically have a short shelf-life and get incorporated into every playbook in the league. 

 

But Montana won 4 Super Bowls.  He was "Joe Cool", the guy who pointed out John Candy to get his teammates to loosen up before a game-winning drive.  And nearly every great QB has to have a favorite target.  Can we fault him because his happened to be the GOAT?  I think not. 

 

Joe still had the 2nd highest winning percentage of all-time, behind Brady and ahead of Manning.  He belongs in the stone.

 

But is there a 4th guy?  Favre?  Young?  Unitas?  Elway?  Starr?  Marino?  Namath?  Were any of those guys titans above the rest, like Babe Ruth and Michael Jordan were to their respective sports?  I'm not so sure.

 

I happen to think the 4th member of Mount Rushmore is still to be determined.  He hasn't arrived yet.  And that his spot should be vacated until he arrives on the scene.

[joewillie78]

 

With maybe the final Peyton-Brady showdown coming up this week, there's been a lot of "legacy talk" about these two guys.  ESPN came out with a pretty good article about it. 

 

However, I'm not here to talk about whether you think Peyton or Brady is better.  Mostly that comes down to preference, because they both were really, REALLY f*cking good.  Of this no one can deny.

 

But the Mount Rushmore of QB's?  Now that's where it gets interesting.

 

Because in my mind, there are only three QB's who were Titans among the rest.  Peyton, Brady and Joe Montana. 

 

Sure, some people can argue that Montana was a "System QB" who had Jerry Rice and Bill Walsh.  And maybe you have a point there.  But when it comes to innovations in the NFL, generally the league figures those things out pretty quickly.  The 46 Bear Defense, he Hurry-Up, the Wildcat, the Read Option....those typically have a short shelf-life and get incorporated into every playbook in the league. 

 

But Montana won 4 Super Bowls.  He was "Joe Cool", the guy who pointed out John Candy.  And nearly every great QB has to have a favorite target.  Can we fault him because his happened to be the GOAT?  I think not. 

 

Joe still had the 2nd highest winning percentage of all-time, behind Brady and ahead of Manning.  He belongs in the stone.

 

But is there a 4th guy?  Favre?  Young?  Elway?  Starr?  Marino?  Namath?  Were any of those guys titans above the rest, like Babe Ruth and Michael Jordan were to their respective sports?  I'm not so sure.

 

I happen to think the 4th member of Mount Rushmore is still to be determined.  He hasn't arrived yet.  And that his spot should be vacated until he arrives on the scene.

 I think most people have a combination of these guys on their Mt Rushmore:

Montana

Unitas

Favre

Manning

Brady

Elway

Just missing:

Namath

Fouts

Aikman

Staubach

Bradshaw

Future guys with a possibility of breaking into this group:

Luck

Rodgers

Brees

[Jetsfan80]

 

 I think most people have a combination of these guys on their Mt Rushmore:

Montana

Unitas

Favre

Manning

Brady

Elway

Just missing:

Namath

Fouts

Aikman

Staubach

Bradshaw

Future guys with a possibility of breaking into this group:

Luck

Rodgers

Brees

 

 

There can only be 4.  You don't get to have "honorable mentions".  They have to be one of the 4 or not, and they have to stand above the rest.  I don't see any of the guys on your list being in that category. 

[Lupz27]

With maybe the final Peyton-Brady showdown coming up this week, there's been a lot of "legacy talk" about these two guys. ESPN came out with a pretty good article about it.

However, I'm not here to talk about whether you think Peyton or Brady is better. Mostly that comes down to preference, because they both were really, REALLY f*cking good. Of this no one can deny.

But the Mount Rushmore of QB's? Now that's where it gets interesting.

Because in my mind, there are only three QB's who were Titans among the rest. Peyton, Brady and Joe Montana.

Sure, some people can argue that Montana was a "System QB" who had Jerry Rice and Bill Walsh. And maybe you have a point there. But when it comes to innovations in the NFL, generally the league figures those things out pretty quickly. The 46 Bear Defense, the Hurry-Up, the Wildcat, the Read Option....those typically have a short shelf-life and get incorporated into every playbook in the league.

But Montana won 4 Super Bowls. He was "Joe Cool", the guy who pointed out John Candy to get his teammates to loosen up before a game-winning drive. And nearly every great QB has to have a favorite target. Can we fault him because his happened to be the GOAT? I think not.

Joe still had the 2nd highest winning percentage of all-time, behind Brady and ahead of Manning. He belongs in the stone.

But is there a 4th guy? Favre? Young? Unitas? Elway? Starr? Marino? Namath? Were any of those guys titans above the rest, like Babe Ruth and Michael Jordan were to their respective sports? I'm not so sure.

I happen to think the 4th member of Mount Rushmore is still to be determined. He hasn't arrived yet. And that his spot should be vacated until he arrives on the scene.

I don't want to get to crazy here because this is a very highly opinionated topic, and to me, yes just me, IMO! Winning, and Being a Leader/Coach ON THE FIELD!!!!! Is the most important thing, and what will stand the test of time, Tom Brady is tops here in my generation, he hasn't won A SB in 10 years, but he has never in had a losing season in the 11 years he started at QB (will make it 12 this season), has 3 SB titles, 10 division titles, 5 Confrence titles, and a 16-0 single season record. So he tops my list even thou I loathe the man.

Peyton Manning hasn't had nearly as much success in the postseason as Brady, but the 2 played in the same Confrence throughout Brady's entire career, and still counting. He does have a SB, 2 Confrence titles, after rookie season I can't recall a losing record, but he might have had 1 in the 14 years after his rookie season, and 10+ division titles, so he also to me would stand the test of time.

You did a nice write up on Joe Cool so I won't, and wouldn't argue against including him.

I'm to young to judge, but from what I've read, and heard, Johnny Unitas was the balls, unquestioned on field leader, multiple NFL titles, but because his prime didn't happen during the SB era he gets forgotten by the younger generation, so if most older gents would attest to the above statements being correct, and they believed him to be the best QB pre SB Era I would put him in as the 4th without a problem.

[#27TheDominator]

There can only be 4.  You don't get to have "honorable mentions".  They have to be one of the 4 or not, and they have to stand above the rest.  I don't see any of the guys on your list being in that category. 

 

 

I think Unitas would slap you if he saw your list.  The same for Slinging Sammy Baugh and Otto Graham.  All before my time, but my point is that by the time some young fellow comes up to take his spot on that list people will have forgotten one of the others. 

[sirlancemehlot]

Johnny Unitas. He was everything a QB should be and played in an era when the Brady's and mannings of the world would have not only have been beaten to a pulp, but would have had there receivers mugged on every play. And he didn't whine on the field like Brady, and didn't have the benefit of medical miracles like Peyton. He was a warrior, leader, and a very prolific passer who called all of his own plays and fought through injuries that would have put all of today's QBs on the IR or PUP list. There really isn't any question. In fact he's the first guy who should be on that mountaintop IMO.

[Lupz27]

Johnny Unitas. He was everything a QB should be and played in an era when the Brady's and mannings of the world would have not only have been beaten to a pulp, but would have had there receivers mugged on every play. And he didn't whine on the field like Brady, and didn't have the benefit of medical miracles like Peyton. He was a warrior, leader, and a very prolific passer who called all of his own plays and fought through injuries that would have put all of today's QBs on the IR or PUP list. There really isn't any question. In fact he's the first guy who should be on that mountaintop IMO.

Everyone who had the pleasure of seeing him play speaks of him this way, like I said in my post I'm to young to know. Sounds like the Mountain should be built with his mug 1st, and then constructed from there.

[#27TheDominator]

Talk about these guys not being tough.  Baugh played three ways and won the triple crown (war year) leading the league in passing, interceptions and punts.  

[MexiRoll6]

 

 I think most people have a combination of these guys on their Mt Rushmore:

Montana

Unitas

Favre

Manning

Brady

Elway

Just missing:

Namath

Fouts

Aikman

Staubach

Bradshaw

Future guys with a possibility of breaking into this group:

Luck

Rodgers

Brees

Namath misses by a mile. Have you seen his career stats? He is in the HOF because he was a generational icon and pulled off the greatest upset of all time. Other than that with his resume, he shouldn't even be allowed IN the HOF. I mean the building itself not just his bust. Namath's numbers were pure crap. He was a guy that could ALMOST pull it off for you, like when he came back in 72 and ALMOST beat a mediocre SF team. The next week the team went to Dallas and got beat 52-10, with John Riggins in the lineup. Bradshaw won four SB's and gets no respect because the Steelers happened to have a great defense. Without Bradshaw the Steelers don't win any of them.

[MexiRoll6]

Johnny Unitas. He was everything a QB should be and played in an era when the Brady's and mannings of the world would have not only have been beaten to a pulp, but would have had there receivers mugged on every play. And he didn't whine on the field like Brady, and didn't have the benefit of medical miracles like Peyton. He was a warrior, leader, and a very prolific passer who called all of his own plays and fought through injuries that would have put all of today's QBs on the IR or PUP list. There really isn't any question. In fact he's the first guy who should be on that mountaintop IMO.

I agree with Johnny U. Brett Favre belongs NOWHERE NEAR that mountain top, I don't care how many yards he threw for. He was a ME guy all the way and should have won a lot more than he did with the cast he had around him. Seemed like every Packer season ended with a Favre playoff game ending pick.

[MexiRoll6]

 

 I think most people have a combination of these guys on their Mt Rushmore:

Montana

Unitas

Favre

Manning

Brady

Elway

Just missing:

Namath

Fouts

Aikman

Staubach

Bradshaw

Future guys with a possibility of breaking into this group:

Luck

Rodgers

Brees

Staubach and Bradshaw belong more than Favre for sure. Aikman won three SB's but wasn't considered a great QB for some reason. I know the Jets never beat him that's for sure and neither did Buffalo or Pittsburgh. His numbers were a little on the low end because he had such a great running game and didn't need to throw the ball much to win games.

[Matt39]

Marino was probably the best QB I've ever seen and I never really saw his early years. Leaving him off your list entirely is crazy IMO.

[Kleckineau]

Using Mt Rushmore as the numeric criteria just doesn't cut it for this selection process. There are clearly 7 or 8 guys that just cant be left out. 

Seven wonders of the world (of QBs) might be more fair.

 

Montana, best ever because.........he just was.

Bradshaw. 4 rings, case closed.

Marino, would be #1 if he even had 1 ring. 

Elway, who wouldnt want to start a team with this guy running and throwing.

Unitas, unreal talent. Showed the football world what a QB was supposed to play like.

Manning, who even needs an O/C with this guy on the field?

Young, From 91-98 he was the best QB ever.

 

Brady? fock him. Cheaters never get my vote.

[SayNoToDMC]

Brady is pretty overrated. Hasn't won anything since they literally knew what was coming at them and I wouldn't take him top 5 if you gave me my choice of QB's right now.

[joewillie78]

 

Marino was probably the best QB I've ever seen and I never really saw his early years. Leaving him off your list entirely is crazy IMO.

 Whoops, you are right, forgot about Marino, and he is the QB I hate the most? Why? Because this franchise in 1983 passed over him for Ken O'brien. I remember that day at the draft like it was yesterday, I remember saying to myself, holy crap, we are going to draft Marino, and then they say KEN O'BRIEN, and I just about fainted, and then who the heck is this guy?

If they do that in this draft, then surely the guy they pass over in 2014 will also someday be on this list.

[Matt39]

 

 Whoops, you are right, forgot about Marino, and he is the QB I hate the most? Why? Because this franchise in 1983 passed over him for Ken O'brien. I remember that day at the draft like it was yesterday, I remember saying to myself, holy crap, we are going to draft Marino, and then they say KEN O'BRIEN, and I just about fainted, and then who the heck is this guy?

If they do that in this draft, then surely the guy they pass over in 2014 will also someday be on this list.

 

Obviously the Jets knew something we didnt.

[Klecko73isGod]

Montana, Unitas, Manning, Favre. 

 

/End thread.

[Jetsfan80]

Guys, the bottom line here is that Brady, Montana and Manning are your top 3 in Winning %.  And Johnny Unitas didn't really play much into the post-merger era.  Maybe he's your 4th on Mt Rushmore but he isn't definitively better than the other guys.  The forward pass had barely been invented.

[joewillie78]

 

Obviously the Jets knew something we didnt.

 Actually, to be fair, not just the Jets passed over Marino, as it was being reported that he had "character issues" and hence the fall. So ever since that draft, if Mel or McShay are spouting off character issues, I say take your character issues to Canton and hang them on Marino's bust.

To this day, I have never seen more perfect throwing motions than NAMATH and MARINO. They are the ultimate pure passers with the quickest most beautiful throwing motion I have ever seen. I marvel at the old films of NAMATH and his release, just a thing of beauty, and Marinos was just as pure.

[T0mShane]

I wouldn't put Peyton Manning on there. The guy has been clown shoes in the playoffs.

[Smashmouth]

With maybe the final Peyton-Brady showdown coming up this week, there's been a lot of "legacy talk" about these two guys.  ESPN came out with a pretty good article about it. 

 

However, I'm not here to talk about whether you think Peyton or Brady is better.  Mostly that comes down to preference, because they both were really, REALLY f*cking good.  Of this no one can deny.

 

But the Mount Rushmore of QB's?  Now that's where it gets interesting.

 

Because in my mind, there are only three QB's who were Titans among the rest.  Peyton, Brady and Joe Montana. 

 

Sure, some people can argue that Montana was a "System QB" who had Jerry Rice and Bill Walsh.  And maybe you have a point there.  But when it comes to innovations in the NFL, generally the league figures those things out pretty quickly.  The 46 Bear Defense, the Hurry-Up, the Wildcat, the Read Option....those typically have a short shelf-life and get incorporated into every playbook in the league. 

 

But Montana won 4 Super Bowls.  He was "Joe Cool", the guy who pointed out John Candy to get his teammates to loosen up before a game-winning drive.  And nearly every great QB has to have a favorite target.  Can we fault him because his happened to be the GOAT?  I think not. 

 

Joe still had the 2nd highest winning percentage of all-time, behind Brady and ahead of Manning.  He belongs in the stone.

 

But is there a 4th guy?  Favre?  Young?  Unitas?  Elway?  Starr?  Marino?  Namath?  Were any of those guys titans above the rest, like Babe Ruth and Michael Jordan were to their respective sports?  I'm not so sure.

 

I happen to think the 4th member of Mount Rushmore is still to be determined.  He hasn't arrived yet.  And that his spot should be vacated until he arrives on the scene.

 

Unitas did things in this league long before the passing game became big as did Namath.

 

To make things easy the Mount Rushmore of QB's should be broken down by Decade because of the way the game has changed. Its not fair to the early greats who didn't throw the ball 40 times a game when football was a much better game than it is now since its been changed so much. Bart Starr Johnny Unitas Terry Bradshaw Ken Stabler Roger Staubach Certainly no slouches in that bunch ...In the 80's Montana, Marino, Elway (80s and 90s)

 

While Bradshaw was not lighting it up during the regular season his insanely clutch play in the playoffs might be unmatched.;

[Pac]

Brady and Manning play in an era where you can't hit them or touch their WR's.  There's a slue of QB's that would have put up astronomical numbers if they played today.

 

Go kick rocks.

[PFSIKH]

With maybe the final Peyton-Brady showdown coming up this week, there's been a lot of "legacy talk" about these two guys.  ESPN came out with a pretty good article about it. 

 

However, I'm not here to talk about whether you think Peyton or Brady is better.  Mostly that comes down to preference, because they both were really, REALLY f*cking good.  Of this no one can deny.

 

But the Mount Rushmore of QB's?  Now that's where it gets interesting.

 

Because in my mind, there are only three QB's who were Titans among the rest.  Peyton, Brady and Joe Montana. 

 

Sure, some people can argue that Montana was a "System QB" who had Jerry Rice and Bill Walsh.  And maybe you have a point there.  But when it comes to innovations in the NFL, generally the league figures those things out pretty quickly.  The 46 Bear Defense, the Hurry-Up, the Wildcat, the Read Option....those typically have a short shelf-life and get incorporated into every playbook in the league. 

 

But Montana won 4 Super Bowls.  He was "Joe Cool", the guy who pointed out John Candy to get his teammates to loosen up before a game-winning drive.  And nearly every great QB has to have a favorite target.  Can we fault him because his happened to be the GOAT?  I think not. 

 

Joe still had the 2nd highest winning percentage of all-time, behind Brady and ahead of Manning.  He belongs in the stone.

 

But is there a 4th guy?  Favre?  Young?  Unitas?  Elway?  Starr?  Marino?  Namath?  Were any of those guys titans above the rest, like Babe Ruth and Michael Jordan were to their respective sports?  I'm not so sure.

 

I happen to think the 4th member of Mount Rushmore is still to be determined.  He hasn't arrived yet.  And that his spot should be vacated until he arrives on the scene.

 

Great thread.

 

I think limiting to 4 is an excellent way to do it.  That is what they should do for the baseball HofF (ESPN personality suggestion).  Limit it to a set number 25 (?).  If you do not merit knocking someone off, you do not get in.  Although I imagine there will be the pantheon with the busts and then the honorable mentions.

 

Using Mt Rushmore as the numeric criteria just doesn't cut it for this selection process. There are clearly 7 or 8 guys that just cant be left out. 

Seven wonders of the world (of QBs) might be more fair.

 

Montana, best ever because.........he just was.

Bradshaw. 4 rings, case closed.

Marino, would be #1 if he even had 1 ring. 

Elway, who wouldnt want to start a team with this guy running and throwing.

Unitas, unreal talent. Showed the football world what a QB was supposed to play like.

Manning, who even needs an O/C with this guy on the field?

Young, From 91-98 he was the best QB ever.

 

Brady? fock him. Cheaters never get my vote.

 

Whatever helps you sleep.

 

Brady is pretty overrated. Hasn't won anything since they literally knew what was coming at them and I wouldn't take him top 5 if you gave me my choice of QB's right now.

 

 

You are going with that?  Wow. 

 

"Hasn't won anything......"  Yeah, the nine tapes are the reason they have not won anything.  Nothing to do with oh a defense that is nowhere near as good.

 

He has a higher winning % with eroding or a defensive mess around him.  Yeah, his not winning a title has nothing to do with the two great plays in those games.  Or the two AFC Championships game he lost.

 

Dumb.

[Larz]

otto graham

bart starr/staubach

montana

dick wood

[SayNoToDMC]

 

You are going with that?  Wow. 

 

"Hasn't won anything......"  Yeah, the nine tapes are the reason they have not won anything.  Nothing to do with oh a defense that is nowhere near as good.

 

He has a higher winning % with eroding or a defensive mess around him.  Yeah, his not winning a title has nothing to do with the two great plays in those games.  Or the two AFC Championships game he lost.

 

Dumb.

 

 

Not knowing whats coming anymore has nothing to do with it

[Jetsfan80]

Brady and Manning play in an era where you can't hit them or touch their WR's.  There's a slue of QB's that would have put up astronomical numbers if they played today.

 

Go kick rocks.

 

None of the old guard had the supercomputer brains like Manning has.  Against the competition put in front of them, Brady, Montana and Manning's win % are incomparable.  Comparing across generations is difficult, yes, but if the rules are the same as your counterparts, then there's no explanation for why guys like Unitas, Graham or Baugh didn't win games more often than they did other than to say they just weren't as dominant as Montana, Brady and Manning.  

 

Not to mention a lot of those old guard QB's never faced black players, or didn't until the tail end of their careers.  Also the fact that Brady and Manning were putting up mythic numbers even BEFORE all the rule changes.

[Jetsfan80]

Great thread.

 

I think limiting to 4 is an excellent way to do it.  That is what they should do for the baseball HofF (ESPN personality suggestion).  Limit it to a set number 25 (?).  If you do not merit knocking someone off, you do not get in.  Although I imagine there will be the pantheon with the busts and then the honorable mentions.

 

Mount Rushmore of MLB Players (non-pitchers):  Mays, Aaron, Ruth, Williams

 

(Pitchers may also be incomplete....Koufax, Pedro Martinez, Walter Johnson, and?.....)

 

 

Mount Rushmore of NBA:  Jordan, LeBron, Russell, Magic

[TuscanyTile2]

To me the 2 obvious ones are Montana and Brady. Peyton has choked in big games. I don't think he belongs next to those 2 despite his remarkable numbers. I think there are 2 open spots.

If I did have to fill 4 right now though I would include Peyton and probably Marino even though I felt like he fell off after a few tremendous years at the beginning of his career

[Matt39]

If youre hesitant about Marino that means he's a no brainer. 

[TuscanyTile2]

If youre hesitant about Marino that means he's a no brainer. 

 

Why do you say that?  Which big games did he take over and win?  What was his signature post-season win?  The 48-28 AFC championship team against a Steelers team who I think had Mark Malone as its QB?  He had several amazing seasons early in his career and after that, I think there was a bit of hype about his greatness.  He was still a top-echelon QB but not the dominator he was early in his career.  Peyton has been more consistently excellent than Marino.  At least that's my recollection of Marino's career.  I didn't check stats before posting this but I think I will after I do.

[ZachEY]

Montana, Unitas, Manning, Favre. 

 

/End thread.

 

Pennington, Bollinger, Sanchez, Smith

 

/End thread

[Gastineau Lives]

 

 I think most people have a combination of these guys on their Mt Rushmore:

Montana

Unitas

Favre

Manning

Brady

Elway

Just missing:

Namath

Fouts

Aikman

Staubach

Bradshaw

Future guys with a possibility of breaking into this group:

Luck

Rodgers

Brees

 

Dan Marino was just as good as any of them, maybe better.

[roscoeword]

too bad Namath didn't beat Unitas in the Superbowl, but his replacement. Then maybe he would get more respect.

[Irish Jet]

Otto Graham was the most dominant QB of all time and don't give me the different era sh*t because every era's different. Heck every QB record will be broken over the next 10 years the way the sport's going. 

[#27TheDominator]

None of the old guard had the supercomputer brains like Manning has.  Against the competition put in front of them, Brady, Montana and Manning's win % are incomparable.  Comparing across generations is difficult, yes, but if the rules are the same as your counterparts, then there's no explanation for why guys like Unitas, Graham or Baugh didn't win games more often than they did other than to say they just weren't as dominant as Montana, Brady and Manning.  

 

Not to mention a lot of those old guard QB's never faced black players, or didn't until the tail end of their careers.  Also the fact that Brady and Manning were putting up mythic numbers even BEFORE all the rule changes.

 

I don't think even Otto Graham played in the NFL before the color barrier was broken.  They also played in a league with 12 teams instead of 32 where you aren't facing the 40th best CB on any given Sunday.