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Roger Goodell says Deflategate report should be released 'soon'...***updated 5/6: REPORT RELEASED*** (starts page 8)

Jet Fan RI

By Jet Fan RI
in NY Jets Forum

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T0mShane

T0mShane

Posted
Posted

I tend to agree, and I think the Pats -despite their public protestations- are not only resigned to the fact, but signed off on it. This report completely exonerated Belichick without investigating him at all. They failed to get Brady's phone, and never asked for Bill's. I can't imagine anyone who's followed Bill Belichicks career at all believes for a second that he didn't know about Tom's soft balls, or even had a hand in executing the whole thing. If they'd gotten Bill, the whole organization would've been tainted much, much worse. It's a big enough deal that they're letting Brady be the fall guy to protect the franchise.

And they'll accept the penalty because they don't want any further investigation. There's no doubt that Belichick is involved.

I'd imagine flipping through Belichick's phone would be as incriminating as flipping through Vladimir Putin's phone.

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PFSIKH

PFSIKH

Posted
Posted

Weak dude,. YOU said, if he was asked after the event it would be OK. Well the video clearly shows him being asked as he's on his way to his car to leave. 

 

Just admit you were wrong. 

 

I am sorry I am not fluent in Gronkspeak.  I listened to the actual horses mouth.  It is still sh*tty.

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Jolot

Jolot

Posted
Posted

Teddy Bruschi on ESPN "I don't think there should be a suspension because I do not accept the report"

LMFAO :rl::rl:

Isn't it amazing?....if he wants to spew his nonsense on NESN fine but why does the whole nation need to be subjected to it.
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FidelioJet

FidelioJet

Posted
Posted

But what if he is suspended for just 1 game, as I have heard suggested? I would be pissed.

Yes...but I really don't think that's going to happen.  Might be 2 (still a little light) but even still, the damage is done.  

 

By the end of next year the size of the suspension will be forgotten - but the cheating will be with him the rest of career and frankly the rest of his life....

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Vinny16

Vinny16

Posted
Posted

A one or two game suspension would essentially be the NFL sanctioning what Brady and the Patriots did and would only handed down to appease everyone else who rightly think that what the Patriots have done is wrong. 

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EM31

EM31

Posted
Posted

I think competent investigators have means to get hold of records that have not been released to them officially.  The problem is that they cannot admit to doing that or use that evidence publicly.  I am sure they have already looked at Brady's text messages and know exactly why he will not release them.

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AFCEastFan

AFCEastFan

Posted
Posted

<edited to add> Come now. This is not about one game.  It was never about one game.  Statistical averages and trends are about more than one game.  You know that, I know that and I know that you know that so let's please dispense with that kind of BS argument.  It is insulting<end of insert> 

 

Running backs and receivers have indicated a commonly held belief that lower ball pressures (particularly in cold weather conditions) make the football easier to tuck away and correspondingly harder for defenders to strip out.  Moreover, if a fumble is induced then the loose football tends to bounce around less if it has a lower pressure and therefore more would likely to be recovered by the fumbling team.

 

All perfectly reasonable and pretty plausible.  Frankly something which seems so obvious once it has been pointed out that it almost seems as if such a correlation does not even need to be proven.

 

Now we add into the mix a QB who likes a "grippier", lower-pressured ball to begin with and a league rules change in 2006-2007 which allowed teams to prepare balls for their own offense according to how their own QB likes it.  We also know for a fact that fumble statistics for the New England Patriots changed dramatically at the time this rules change went into effect.  They went from being one of a group of teams who were among the best in the league at taking care of the football to a team who were so far above everyone else it would be like a MLB hitter suddenly going from .320 to hitting .450 over night.  Barry Bonds on juice if you will.

 

Every team preaches and teaches ball security.  Every single team.

 

The obvious conclusion is that after the 2006-2007 rules change there began to be pretty compelling evidence that lower ball pressures had a marked impact on fumble rates for both receivers and running backs and the obvious conclusion being that if a team could only find a way to lower the ball pressure even further then they could expect to enjoy an even bigger turnover advantage as a result.

 

And that is what happened.

 

What I am suggesting is the Bill Belichick, the mad professor of football theory, the man who works harder at knowing more than any other coach and finding advantage in more obscure places than anyone else did not simply have this happen to his team as a happy accident one day.  I don't think the Pats feel even remotely sorry about doing it and I think they are slightly miffed that this competitive advantage may no longer be available to them.

 

Brady may end up taking one for the team here but people a missing the point.  This is about the fumbling not about the kind of ball Brady likes to throw.

 

It's not about one game, but that is one of the few games we have psi evidence of in the Wells report.  You also have Walt Anderson saying that the balls had never disappeared on his watch before in his 19 years of officiating.  Was the AFCC the first Patriots game Walt Anderson officiated?  What evidence do you have of the psi levels in other games besides the Jets and Colts games?

 

If I remember the fumble studies correctly, the Falcons (who, incidentally, were recently penalized for cheating) have the best fumble rate since the rule change.  If you eliminate dome teams from the study, there is one 4-year period of the Patriots that is off the charts first, but then another 4-year period that overlaps with 2 or 3 of the same years is tied for second with a 4-year stretch by Peyton Manning's Colts.  Not coincidentally, those are both heavy passing offenses.  The 2006-07 rule change incidentally coincides with the Pats' acquisition of Randy Moss, Welker and Donte Stallworth and their shift away from a run-first team to a pass-first team. 

 

I get that you are wedded to the Belichick as evil mastermind narrative, and that's your prerogative.  But it is such a leap for me to believe that Belichick would micromanage his franchise QB to such an unprecedented degree (and with BB confident enough to dump this at Brady's feet at the pre-SB press conference without Brady, in turn, implicating him right back) that I would need to see a lot more evidence than an oft-criticized study and conspiracy theories. 

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AFCEastFan

AFCEastFan

Posted
Posted

I think competent investigators have means to get hold of records that have not been released to them officially.  The problem is that they cannot admit to doing that or use that evidence publicly.  I am sure they have already looked at Brady's text messages and know exactly why he will not release them.

 

Again, something we agree on.  Wells does not have that means, ergo, he must be incompetent. 

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PFSIKH

PFSIKH

Posted
Posted

None of this changes until the other 31 owners finally get tired of the Patriots organization stealing from out of their pockets.

 

What?

 

I am sure they were crying to the bank when the 24/7 coverage of Deflategate after the AFCC helped this superbolw become one of the most watched.

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SouthernJet

SouthernJet

Posted
Posted

What?

 

I am sure they were crying to the bank when the 24/7 coverage of Deflategate after the AFCC helped this superbolw become one of the most watched.

owners are competitive.. I'm sure they arent happy that its now being shown as systemic, planned  cheating, not isolated. They have money already, but less chance at rings when another teams games are altered/momentum changed when they have less turnovers then any other team on consistent basis due to how 'most' RBs say its easier to handle ball w/less inflated. (some are fumblers no matter what)

Thats biggest issue thats ignored,,the lack of fumble turnovers that might have happened last 8 years or so if balls were normal.

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Beerfish

Beerfish

Posted
Posted

There was no 'testimony' in this case or this report.  There were interviews.  Testimony is more of a legal term which indicates providing information under oath.

 

"1. Law. the statement or declaration of a witness under oath or affirmation, usually in court.
2. evidence in support of a fact or statement; proof. "

 

If he wants to offer testimony then by all means, into the court if goes and you are subject to oath, and all penalties for lying under oath that are applicable.

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Charlie Brown

Charlie Brown

Posted
Posted

How is he going to be able to show his innocence?  Here is a text of me saying not to do it.  Again, they had the texts from that one guys phone showing the communication, which I am sure was cherry picked, but I digress.

 

I am not saying he is innocent.  I fully believe they acted upon his behest.

 

The reason you include his testimony, because they had no problem using the Ski and Jim's words against themselves and shooting down excuses like with the season ticket selling.

 

You do not include his testimony when you think it might muddle things up more.  Wells is paid by the NFL who hired a company that argued second hand smoke does not cause cancer.

 

Brady is not innocent, but it was not an impartial investigation.

Listen...

 

I'm not just a Jets fan but a football fan. 

 

The fact that this happened, in truth, has hurt me personally as a fan.  I would rather Brady or the Pats not have been implicated in any way.  The fact we come out here and get a chance at pleasant diversions from real world happenings like war and riots and so on is marred by the idea that guys you MUST respect, whether you like it or not, are engaged in systematic cheating even against an opponent they KNEW they were better than. 

 

It is wonderful the Pats ended years of futility with Brady at the helm ( I remember Steve Grogan) but the fact is the Pats as an organization have either skirted the rules or played fast and lose with the facts for well over a decade now..... A DECADE!!!

 

And the fact that fans wont rally to their defense or say "it is no big deal" should not be the least bit shocking to you...

 

I FOR ONE WANT MY GAME BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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JetsFanInDenver

JetsFanInDenver

Posted
Posted

What?

 

I am sure they were crying to the bank when the 24/7 coverage of Deflategate after the AFCC helped this superbolw become one of the most watched.

 

So by your logic Pats should cheat more because it increases the ratings. Yep. Yep. Who knew one team cheating was the secret of success for the league.

 

I have heard a lot of stupid but you surpass that.

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PFSIKH

PFSIKH

Posted
Posted

owners are competitive.. I'm sure they arent happy that its now being shown as systemic, planned  cheating, not isolated. They have money already, but less chance at rings when another teams games are altered/momentum changed when they have less turnovers then any other team on consistent basis due to how 'most' RBs say its easier to handle ball w/less inflated. (some are fumblers no matter what)

Thats biggest issue thats ignored,,the lack of fumble turnovers that might have happened last 8 years or so if balls were normal.

 

SJ there is no doubt they are.

 

And these are men that ar emore oftent than not successful business men that might have applied less than honorable means to get ahead.

 

Not saying it is right, but it is what it is.

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SouthernJet

SouthernJet

Posted
Posted

SJ there is no doubt they are.

 

And these are men that ar emore oftent than not successful business men that might have applied less than honorable means to get ahead.

 

Not saying it is right, but it is what it is.

Oh I agree Pats arent only 'edge cutters' (nice tewrm eh? ;))

But at 'some point' lets be honest, dont u think they even get pissed w/continued infractions. The lack of fumbles by a mathematically 'non probable' % (NFls words) is to me the thing that efffected games the most. A fumble/turnover  (or lack of one where one who have happened by a huge hit to RB) can change a game in 1st qtr.

 

I doubt anything happens, but if it does, behind closed doors, the 'we dont haveto be legally perfect' NFL is pissed ta 2 things 1- fumbles #s and 2- Brady not cooperating after other members of organization didnt. Whats odd, he knew other guys phones would implicate him. Who was Brady protecting ? Belichick?

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Dcat

Dcat

Posted
Posted

This, on the other hand, is absurd. As much as you all would like to think Belichick is some sort of omniscient video-game crime lord, this is all on Brady. Unless you think there should be vicarious liability for all head coaches. That's fine, but that also means Rex should have been suspended for trip-gate, Pete Carroll for the many PED violations of his players, etc., etc.

You can exclude Rex from that list. The doofus didn't even know the offensive play book. I doubt he knows if his shoe laces are tied.

Kidding aside, Beliecheats is well known to be a micromanager to the nth degree. So it is not at all implausible that he was aware of the ball deflation that had been going on for years.

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Dcat

Dcat

Posted
Posted

 

As much as I would prefer that this all be pinned on Belichick rather than Brady, it simply strains credulity to think that Belichick would dictate the details of the ball used by his franchise QB on game days.

He might not have "dictated" the specifics on ball tampering. But I'd be willing to bet he was well aware of it. He probably won't get suspended because he didn't overtly impede the investigation as did Brady, but he sure as sh*t deserves to be suspended along with him.

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Dcat

Dcat

Posted
Posted

They did not cheat to wint he last one unless Beli gave pete a quick HJ to deflate his balls.

They cheated to get to the Superbowl. The whole frigging season is tainted. And of course, you know that already.

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EM31

EM31

Posted
Posted

Again, something we agree on.  Wells does not have that means, ergo, he must be incompetent. 

 

He has them.  He just cannot admit to having them because then he would have to explain how he got them.

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EM31

EM31

Posted
Posted

It's not about one game, but that is one of the few games we have psi evidence of in the Wells report.  You also have Walt Anderson saying that the balls had never disappeared on his watch before in his 19 years of officiating.  Was the AFCC the first Patriots game Walt Anderson officiated?  What evidence do you have of the psi levels in other games besides the Jets and Colts games?

 

If I remember the fumble studies correctly, the Falcons (who, incidentally, were recently penalized for cheating) have the best fumble rate since the rule change.  If you eliminate dome teams from the study, there is one 4-year period of the Patriots that is off the charts first, but then another 4-year period that overlaps with 2 or 3 of the same years is tied for second with a 4-year stretch by Peyton Manning's Colts.  Not coincidentally, those are both heavy passing offenses.  The 2006-07 rule change incidentally coincides with the Pats' acquisition of Randy Moss, Welker and Donte Stallworth and their shift away from a run-first team to a pass-first team. 

 

I get that you are wedded to the Belichick as evil mastermind narrative, and that's your prerogative.  But it is such a leap for me to believe that Belichick would micromanage his franchise QB to such an unprecedented degree (and with BB confident enough to dump this at Brady's feet at the pre-SB press conference without Brady, in turn, implicating him right back) that I would need to see a lot more evidence than an oft-criticized study and conspiracy theories. 

 

I hope you are not suggesting that they decided to try this out for the first time in the AFC championship game.  This is when they finally got caught.  It is much more reasonable to assume that they have been doing it for years.  Certainly it isn't any kind of moral compass that would be stopping them.  So they won the game in a rout during the 2nd half you say?  OK so what about the week before in as squeaker against the Ravens?

 

The numbers in the analysis I saw were that the Patriots rate of fumbling jumped "off the charts" exactl;y at the time of the rules changes and that in terms of just the raw numbers.  When you add in the fact that dome teams are expected to fumble less then that means that the Patriots rates of fumbling are even more outside of the norm. 

 

Did we really need to see the needle sliding into Barry Bonds' ass in order to determine that he was juicing during that time or did 73 home runs tell us all that we really needed to know?  I think we both know the answers to those questions.  The rate of fumbling simply changed too much.  It is about as legitimate as a .450 batting average.

 

The problem for Pats fans in this narrative is that the size of the competitive advantage is huge if you accept the relationship between low ball pressure and low rates of fumbling. This is the big story here.  Not what kind of balls that Brady prefers.  If you accept that such a relationship exists or even that one might exist then the notion that the most brilliant tactical football mind of his generation is unaware of it simply does not pass the smell test. 

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